There has been lack of oversight and inconsistencies that vary from agency to agency and state to state. More thoughts on this:

* With whom do you work in Guatemala?
* How many years have you worked with this attorney/facilitator/organization?
* How long have you had a Guatemalan program?
* How often do you visit Guatemala?
* How big is your staff? How long have they worked with the Guatemala program?
* Who on your staff visits Guatemala and how often do they visit?
* How often will I receive an update on my child/children? By what means?
* Will I be given receipts/verification of each completed step in the process?
* Who do I call if I have a question?

Name of attorney and facilitors should be provided
Location and contact info on the child
Receipts for stages: Embassy, FC, PGN
Provide details and terms of the process
Provide status of the case
Provide updates and answer questions in a timely and courteous manner

Marie, Guatadopt

This and alot more should be done before a child is made available for a referral in the first place! Not only accuracy of birth documents, to ensure that no forged duplication has occured but also interviews with bio-mom should be filmed, coersions investigated and protection of all bio-mothers. Documentation of the birth certificate should be provided to the adoptive family. HIV, TB and Hep tests along with DNA tests should be conducted FIRST. Documentation of results should be provided to the adoptive family. Additional family members should be contacted to see if they are interested in providing care for the child or know of the bio-mother's adoption plan or has other possible family members uncertain about the child's whereabouts. Lawyers, facilitators and agencies should be licensed and names and contact information provided to the adoptive family. The above should be done before a child is made available for a referral, NOT after the child has been matched with an adoptive family. This would alleviate alot of "investigation" wait time for PA, during FC, during PGN and during the pink wait. Principally, this would avoid any pain that the child, bio-parent, bio-grandparent or adoptive parents would incur in this process of long waits with no answers. Iris or footprints scans should ensure that the child you are taking home, is the same child that had DNA. Above all, this process should be clear and transluscent. The agency needs to provide documentation of the above process.
Marie, Guatadopt

Kelly,
Good guidance! Many of us want to tell our experience, but for reasons you stated earlier, remain quiet.
Your post should become a permament section in Guatadopt. Maybe a section of "how to's" for monitoring ethical agency behavior.

Marie,
Great suggestions! I think you hit the nail on the head with the idea of making it perfectly clear to all that a child is available for adoption BEFORE the process involves adoptive families. And a system of checks and balances that requires a family to take home the same child they originally accepted. What a novel idea! Maybe, by pushing all the possibility of doubt out of the picture, it would greatly reduce the amount of uncertainties and fraud. I love it!

Marie,
You have stated exactly what needs to happen. When I first started this process I wondered why some of this wasn't already in place--if DNA is needed, why not obtain at time of birth? etc. I later came to the conclusion that this came down to the eternal bottom line: money and who will pay for this.

I was fortunate that my agency, with my referral, had my son's BC, lab results, seemed to know a lot about the wishes of the birth family, etc. They are working with an excellent attorney who has our child's best interests at heart and has handled everything responsibly.

Then I read about cases where the adoptive parents find out that there are problems with the above information and it causes the agonizing delays and problems you describe.

I truly hope that these suggestions you have made become part of the process *before* a referral is made. These would be huge improvements to the system. I wish there were a way to get your comments to the Guatemalan authorities--they make so much sense for the children, bio families and adoptive families.

Wendy F

The problem is that agencies aren't always truthful! I asked these and many more questions before accepting a referral and signing a contract and was given all the "correct" answers. Yes, they visited monthly, yes their staff in Guatemala was excellent with 6 years history of great working relationships, blah, blah, blah!! Now I realize that my agency is a stinker and although this is the path to my child, to whom we are all quite attached, the agency has made working relationships that place our adoptions in jeopardy from the moment they were started. If we were to say anything at the Embassy, we would be afraid that our adoption would be compromised. Unfortunately, that is the way that it is. I feel that the only way to make these agencies ALL be accountableis through national reform here in the US, via legislation. I have learned that there are way too many bad seeds out there and they are just waiting to take advantage of prospective adoptive parents.

I agree with Marie and others above.

One thing that has continually troubled me, is the way the birthmothers, who have already endured the pain of relinquishing their child when handing that child off to an adoption professional for future adoption, is forced to return months later and endure the pain of seeing the child and holding the child, and then handing away the child again during the DNA test. I often wondered why the embassy did not allow the child and mother to take this test at the time of relinquishment, and perhaps do a videotaped birthmother interview at that same time, and then save this information until the required documents for PA are submitted, thereby ensuring that a child offered for referral is truly the child of the birthmother, and trying to determine whether or not the birthmother is coerced right from the start. If coersion is deiscovered, then perhaps some sort of safe haven could be provided for this birthmother and child to begin their bonding together? Ok, I know there are no programs like this, but I wish there were! And if there is no DNA match, then everyone involved should go to jail! Then, as Marie said, all of the other steps should go smoother and faster--key word there is *should*.

My fear though . . . the embassy will still take a very long time to verify the DNA and issue the PA, possibly causing the child to remain with the birthmother too long before referral(if she cannot feed or care for the child, placing the child in danger, and causing the birthmother additional pain temporarilly caring for the child she has made an adoption plan for), or the child would grow older in foster care or hogar, while waiting for the PA, and miss the critical bonding time with the forever family.

Just my 2 cents.

Lizzie
Proud Mama to Anarosa since 5-26-04
Waiting for Migdalia, born November 2006

Which Guatemalan agency will investigate my complaints about my agency, facilitator and POA?
Thank you!

Which Guatemalan agency will investigate my complaints about my agency, facilitator and POA?
Answer: Contact the US Embassy Adoptions Unit, they will take it from there.
Marie, Guatadopt

Regarding Lizzie's concerns, right now children are coming home to their forever families much older, due to current delays in PAs, PGN and pink appointments, along with scrutinizing from both sides. What do you think that they are scrutinizing? Authenticity.
I am not suggesting for the child to remain with the bio-mom during this whole proces at all. I am suggesting that upon relinquishment, that these necessary steps be taken prior to the referral. The money can be allocated and spread about form upcoming and former adoptions. This is doable, not rocket science here. The quicker the steps are initiated, the less chance of delays during the PGN stay. Hopefully, this will ensure that all the relinquishments are done without coersion and no forged or altered documentation has taken place. Yes it is doable, because some lawyers and agencies are already doing this model. For example:
having the interview filmed, interviewing family members, especially grandparents, providing medical exams for the bio-mom and child consisting of bloodwork and interviews, providing this info/results to agencies, hogares and adoptive parents and double-checking documents at the Civil Registry to name a few.
I do believe that if it would assure that children would be relinquished legally and this would lessen the risks of threats and coersions not only to bio-moms but also to some adoptive families who are also intimidated throughout this process, then do it. The question is: Why do some feel this shouldn't be implemented? Hmmm.
Marie, Guatadopt

Marie,
Exactly! In the US all of this has to be done before a child can be offered for adoption in our foster system. It would speed up the process for adoptive families and save much heartache that i have seen.

We plan on telling the Embassy exactly what we think of our agency and the things that we were misled in. I hope this country's reform is good and abiding and makes for a wonderful place to adopt from.

Marie, While I agree wholeheartedly with most of your list of tasks (posted above on May 30) that should be done and verified before an attorney refers a child, one thing puzzles me. May I ask for clarification about your statement that follows? "Additional family members should be contacted to see if they are interested in providing care for the child or know of the bio-mother's adoption plan or has other possible family members uncertain about the child's whereabouts."

If an adult woman decides to relinquish a child for adoption through an attorney, why should it be the attorney's obligation to inform her family members if she has not seen fit to do so herself? And in theory, why would this have any effect on the outcome or legality of the adoption process? To my knowledge the law as it stands today gives an adult woman the right to relinquish a child to whomever she sees fit. Further, she has no obligation to inform her family or to offer to let a family member raise her child.

Just wondering....

Ellen- "To my knowledge the law as it stands today gives an adult woman the right to relinquish a child to whomever she sees fit. Further, she has no obligation to inform her family or to offer to let a family member raise her child."
To put it simply, this would be great if it were true, or we had proof that it was true, or had no one else that was the actual caretaker involved.
In Latin America, extended family members are respected.

All precautions need to be taken prior to the child being referred. Agencies should support this instead of arguing against it or intimidating adoptive parents that ask questions.
Marie, Guatdopt

Dear Marie and Dawn,
I am confused. Did you read the long first paragraph in my post above? I am agreeing with you, not arguing with you. I really am confused by your reply above.

Even though I am agreeing with you about what should be done prior to referral, I am still concerned about delays by the US govt. at the beginning of the process. Yes, it is not rocket science, but you must remember that we are thinking as individuals and we are thinking logically and how things should be. The reality is the embassy and uscis offices are understaffed for the amound of work that they are given to do. Until this problem is fixed, I don't see any speed happening.

I am well aware of current delays as well. I am currently in process and have been waiting 56 days as of today for my embassy visa PA. I am working with one of the most ethical, efficient, and compassionate agencies/lawyers there are so this comment was entirely uncalled for in my situation. "The question is: Why do some feel this shouldn't be implemented? Hmmm."
Ask Kevin, he knows me.

Sincerely,
Lizzie

Another thought,

Although I am 100% for Guatemalan children remaining in Guatemala with their birthmothers first, and with their birth-relatives second, prior to the birthmothers deciding on an adoption plan, *only* in situations where the birthmother is able to care for the physical and emotional needs of the child or second if the birth-family is able to care for the physical/emotional needs for the child.

Please remember that each case should be looked at individually, and adult birthmother rights/birthmother safety should be preserved.

In the US, and I hesitate to use the US as an example as there are well known *numerous* problems with the US adoption and foster care systems, birthmothers rights and privacy are respected somewhat. Adult US birthmothers do not have agencies contacting all of their relatives as far as I know, unless that is the wish of the birthmother. Us adult birthmothers play a huge role in deciding the adoption plan and choosing the adoptive parents for their child.

Why shouldn't Guatemalan adult birthmothers have the same rights and privacy?

Especially when there is so much accepted domestic violence? And in some villages/communities, if the community becomes aware of a birth or an adoption plan, the birthmother will experience physical violence from the community and/or her own family. We must consider the birthmother's wishes in this area about whether or not to contact extended family to protect her physical safety.

In one family court social worker report I have read about a two week old baby experiencing abuse from the birthmother's male companion because he did not acknowledge the child as his. This is not a lone case. We have all read about stories of male companions putting the children out on the street. But these are not fairy tale stories. We have also read a lot about extended families taking in children and then treating them as lower class citizens. When we make blanket statements to cover all cases, we must realize that many of these cases are also under the blanket.

So, I believe in the taped birthmother interviews, etc. prior to referral etc. as stated above, but we must remember that these are individual families, and the only way to respect the birthmothers and their safety is to respect their wishes when it comes to an adoption plan.

Just my 2 cents. Let's please discuss, but please don't attack me, and please don't make assumptions about me if you do not know me.

Sincerely,
Lizzie
Proud Mama of Anarosa since 5-26-04
Waiting for Migdalia, born November, 2006

Ellen,
Yes, you are right that the birthmother has every right to form an adoption plan and relinquish her child. I could be wrong, but I believe a child is not eligible for international adoption if a relative is willing to take in that child and care for them.

Lizzie,

I think that giving the birthmother several visits with the child after the birth, and her signing paperwork each time agreeing to the continued adoption process, is a good thing.

I felt comfortable knowing our birthmother had time to process the adoption plan, in case she changed her mind. After all, birthmothers in the USA can change their minds even after the birth and placement with a family. The process made me feel more confident our daughter's birthmother had no doubts about what she was doing, and that she was likely not coerced.

Marie--great questions, wish we had known them when we started. You might add to that:

Are there any other fees not listed on your Fee Schedule that we would have to pay to anyone, at anytime in the future regarding the adoption?
Make them put it in writing, sign and date it.

My understanding is that agencies can not charge you for something unless it is on the Fee Schedule or an ammendment to the schedule(both signed/dated by adoptive parents and agency).

We asked our agency several times if we were going to owe them anything more, and they basically lied to us. Things added up little by little, to be about $10,000 more than we planned for. I'm pretty sure it was all stuff they legally could charge us for, except for the fact we did not know about it ahead of time.

Does anyone know the current wait time from start(once dossier in country) to finish at this moment with the current climate in Guatemala.

Marie
Does contacting the Embassy during the adoption process change the way the agency/attorney work the process? We contacted the Embassy to confirm information that we were told came from the Embassy. As a result, we withdrew from our adoption directly with the Embassy (as per their request). We are now told that the agency/attorney cannot return our dossier directly - they say it must be returned to the Embassy who will forward it to us. This will hold up our ability to start the process again - is this true?

I cannot speak for Marie, but my guess on why notifying or seeking out family members would be advisable would be twofold. 1) Culturally (ie from the perspective of a culture where adoption of a "non-blood" child is strange), it would help to reassure people that these children really cannot be cared for by "blood" family and therefore need adoptive families and 2) It would prevent family members from coming forward later in the process and potentially disrupting and adoption, causing great pain to the prospective adoptive parents.

Just my thoughts...i don't presume to be able to interpret anyone else's comments.

First let me state no one here is attacking anyone's thoughts. This is a discussion board where many ideas are exchanged. The bottom line, let us not drift too far away from the main story, which is the intimidation that some bio-mothers and some adoptive parents go through. A system needs to be put in place in which all parties involved are protected at all stages of the process.
Marie, Guatadopt.com

This is to Mary ( on May 9th)

$10,000 in additional fees, not included on your contract, is ILLEGAL. This should be reported.

This is to Mary ( on May 9th)

$10,000 in additional fees, not included on your contract, is ILLEGAL. This should be reported.

As far as we can figure the Embassy is the our problem? We have been waiting to get our Pink Slip for 9 weeks, we moved and Homeland Secrutiy sent our new address chane to the U.S. Embassy twice once May 2nd and then again on May 10th. The Embassy told our Attorney they never got it, even when he showed them proof that they had gotten it? Now we are being told that our Agency doesn't know when will be able to get her visa? But we should be happy we have a child? We are so devisated over this whole situation, we have contacted Senator Bill Nelson's office and were told they are three weeks backed up and hung up on. When then contacted Senator Mel Martenz's office and the caseworker took off for a few days? Can anyone give us any advice ..................Please!

Sincerley

Fran

Who are we to contact in regard to a poor adoption process. We have been working with an agency in Pennsylvania for three years now. We have one daughter who will soon be two years old and now in an orphanage. We were given a second referral and she is now 7 months old. Communication between the agency and attorney in Guatemala is extremely poor. Error after error, delay after delay has gone along with this process. I would definetly like to speak to our Embassy, Presidential Administration, Senators, Dateline and anyone else who would like to listen about how we've been taken on one hell of a ride trying to adopt a baby girl in Guatemala and give her, now give them, a good home.

I would like to know who we are to contact in regard to reporting issues about our adoption agencies. Almost two years later, one daughter in an orphanage, another 7 months old, delay after delay, excuse after excuse. Who do we contact?