A couple of weeks ago, we posted that the US released its final Hague rules. The convention is slated to go into effect in 2007.
There has been much debate about what this will mean to adoptions from Guatemala. And its kind of confusing to understand.
As things appear at this moment as I understand them, the Hague implementation may very well end adoptions to the United States from Guatemala.
In 2003, Guatemala acceded to the Hague Convention. That accension was later ruled unconstitional by the Constitutional Court of Guatemala.
Under official Hague rules, once a country accedes to the convention there is only one way to withdraw. To do so, they must formally withdraw in writing. And then one year after the date the letter is received by the Hague, the country is no longer considered a part of it.
The Convention entails certain principles, not specific policies per se, that countries must have in their adoption systems. If a Hague country determines that another country's system does not adhere to those principles, adoptions are not permitted between the two countries.
Their is little debate about the fact that Guatemala's system, for better or worse, does not adhere to the Convention. The debate circles around whether or not Guatemala is considered a member of the convention. As things have stood, Guatemala says it isn't, the Hague says it is.
All of this has been irrelevant for adoptions to the US because we have not yet implemented the convention. Now that implementation is imminent, it is a whole different story. Initial indications from our government had been that the US would not consider Guatemala a part of the convention. According to people who attended a public meeting on it last week, that position has now changed and the United States does in fact consider Guatemala to be in the convention.
If nothing else changes, this would almost certainly mean that once the US implements the Hague, presumably next year, it would end adoptions from Guatemala to the United States.
Whenever these threats arise, the uproar always tends to come from those in-process or preparing to start an adoption. I do not believe that either of these groups have any cause for concern. I do not believe that the US government will disrupt adptions in process when the convention goes into effect. The next question is at what point the US would grandfather in cases. My guess, and it is just that, is that it would be if you already have an I171H approval. Or it could be if you have already filed an I600A form. I say this because the I171H is the US government officially allowing you to adopt from Guatemala. I don't see how they could prevent you from doing so once they have said it is okay.
There is no telling what will happen between now and the time that the convention goes into force. The US could make an exception of some sort. Guatemala could formally withdraw. Guatemala could alter its system to be compliant with the Hague even it doesn't believe it can formally join the convention.
At this moment, my only piece of advice wouldbe to people considering an adoption from Guatemala. If you are in this situation, I would advise you to make the decision and if you decide you want to pursue an adoption, don't waste too much time before doing so.
Needless to say, there will be more to this in the weeks and months ahead.
The sorrow in my heart for the children of Guatemala could not be greater. We just finished our first adoption from Guatemala. When visiting there, you can just see the pervailing poverty, even in the more affluent parts of the city. How will the children born to women who cannot keep them be cared for? I just want to hold my new son close and cry.
Posted by: Teri at March 19, 2006 09:03 PM"According to people who attended a public meeting on it last week, that position has now changed and the United States does in fact consider Guatemala to be in the convention."
I have not been able to verify this anywhere. Has the US officially recognized as Guatemala as part of the convention, or is this still under debate?
Posted by: Gabe at March 20, 2006 10:37 AMI can't belive that they would want to do this. My husband and I are in the process of adopting from Guatemala this is our first time. We are almost there, waiting for the pre-approvel to move on to PGN. We would love to do this again so our son would have a sibling from the same country now we may not be able to. My heart just breaks for all the children that will be left behind and won't have a loving family to take care of them and give them everything they will need.
Posted by: D Bormann at March 20, 2006 10:39 AMWhen I read this information yesterday I nearly died inside. If the US does stop adoptions with Guatemala, then the US has just committed murder of many children. Someone will have to answer for this if it does come true. Unless you have adopted from Guatemala you don't even have a clue how precious these children are. My husband and I have one son from Guatemala and are waiting to bring his brother home. The process is tuff, the waiting can nearly kill you, but the end result is such a blessing. We were victims of the Hague situation in 2003 in Guatemala. It robbed us of time with our first son. I heard that there were 45 children that died during that time because they weren't giving referals. When government issues take the lives of precious children, then something is drastically wrong with the system.
These children deserve a chance at life.
My husband and I hope to adopt again after our second one is home. We have a real burden for the children of Guatemala and want to help all that we can.
Whatever needs to be done to keep adoptions open with Guatemala, then we as parents of these precious little children need to see that it happens.
If adoptions cannot be completed between Hague and non-Hague countries, how is that many United Kingdom (Hague) families have been able to adopt from Guatemela and Vietnam (for egs- both non-Hague) previously? I believe there is a way for this to be accomplished although it extends the process on the receiving side. Anyone know?
thanks
Annette
Some countries that pass laws which state that they can only do adoptions from other Haue countries. Others, like the US, only state that adoptions between ther US and a fellow Hague country must conform to the convention. So in the case of Guat, IF we did not consider them in the Hague, there would be no issue. But if we do, the Guat system must comply which it does not.
To my knowledge, the UK has not permitted adoptions from Guatemala for a few years, dating back before Guatemala's failed accension to the treaty.
To the person trying to validate the information I posted, I doubt that there is anything published about it. This was something discussed during the meeting. Not to sound bad, but we don't post information unless we are very confident is true and accurate. I think Guatadopt's record speaks for itself in this regard. I don't have any place to send you to validate it, so you'll just have to trust us. Believe me, I wish I didn't feel the need to post this. If you notice, I wrote "As things stand", what I don't know is how final this is or if it just the direction the wind is blowing at the moment. My guess is that until we are officially in, we won't know officially where things stand.
Kevin
Guatadopt.com
Has Hannah Wallace stated anything about this? She is usually well informed and I am wondering what her thoughts are?
Thanks
We have been placing children from Guatemala into the United Kingdom for the past several years. The United Kingdom has and does permit its citizens and residents to adopt children from Guatemala. In fact, they are more permissive than the U.S. government in that they permit adoption of children who have two legally recognized parents. On the other hand, Canada does not permit adoption from Guatemala, and that did pre-date Guatemala's failed accession to the Hague.
Posted by: Caroline Tiffin at March 20, 2006 10:54 PMI am currently going through homestudy in the UK system to adopt from Guatemala - i know of a few families who were caught up in the Hague mess as well, but got their children home, and adoptions are continuing - i'm a bit confused too by this? But i do know that the UK (and Ireland, who have just ratified Hague) are continuing to allow adoptions
i can try to find out more? not sure what to look for tho?
Posted by: mary-kate at March 21, 2006 05:56 AMok
i don't know if this is helpful - but the info sheet on adopting from Guatemala (from the UK) can be viewed by pdf at this address - www.dfes.gov.uk/adoption/pdfs/guatemala.pdf
so maybe there is a way that the UK 'views' guatemala that could be replicated in USA???? Just a thought
Posted by: mary-kate at March 21, 2006 05:59 AMKevin -- Are you sure that the UK doesn't permit adoptions from Guatemala?? There are at least two families from the UK (one in England and the other in Ireland) who are on the adoption.com Guatemalan forum who are in the middle of adopting from Guatemala . . .
Kevin,
Just a quick note to clarify that I do completely trust your information. This has been the best source I've found. Thank you! I was actually looking for something published to send to my agency. When I asked about it yesterday they said I was worried for nothing, they would have heard first if it was, it was still under debate, even if the US did consider Guate under the Hague adoptions would still proceed, etc. I was concerned that they weren't representing the situation correctly, and was hoping to find something 'official' to send to them. Thanks again for getting this information out there!!
Posted by: Gabe at March 21, 2006 08:52 AMIt looks as though I stand corrected that the Uk does allow adoptions from Guatemala. Looks like I had that one wrong.
I am curious how they allow it given the Guatemala in the Hague gig. If anyone can explain it, please do!
Kevin
Guatadopt.com
Thank you, Kevin, for always bringing developments which may affect Guatemalan adoptions to our attention. I regularly check this site and find it very useful. After I read the latest on the Hague here, I went to the JCICS web site since I know they follow Hague developments for all countries. According to JCICS, the final regulations regarding accreditation of U.S. adoption agencies were issued in February but the U.S. has not yet become a Hague country and will not do so until after an accrediting entity has been appointed and U.S. agencies have been given the chance to become accredited. People who are worried about this issue might want to read the Hague page on the JCICS web site to get a sense of the timeline before the U.S. becomes a Hague country and the issue of whether or not Guatemala is a Hague country comes up.
I'm going to pray that the U.S. does NOT recognize Guatemala as a Hague country EVER.
Anne Cralle, adoptive mom to Luis Alberto who turns two on April 5th!!!
Posted by: Anne Cralle at March 21, 2006 10:07 AMHere is the most publc statement I can find see chart
http://www.state.gov/r/pa/prs/ps/2006/61274.htm
Posted by: William Titler at March 21, 2006 11:29 PMJust a couple of important points about the Hague and one about the UK. The UK (+ 4 others) objected to Guatemala's accession to the Hague and therefore do not treat Guatemala as a Hague country, but the UK has chosen to allow adoptions to continue because of the additional safeguards it has placed to ensure that adoptions are legal and ethical.
Moving on to the Hague:
First of all when any country joins the Hague any of the other members can "object" to it - which means that they do not recognise it as a Hague country - or the joining country can "object" to any others that are members. In this case they cantreat such adoptions as non-Hague adoptions - there is no obligation for them to cease, although they can choose to do so.
Secondly at any time any Hague country can cease to co-operate with any other Hague country by not issuing (what is known if the jargon as ) Article 15 reports to its families for transmission to the sending Central Authority, or vice versa by not issuing an Article 16 report on the child(ren). When I have queried with our (UK) Central Authority what they would do if they found out a Hague country was not continuing to meet standards, they have told me this is the mechanism they would use to "change the rules" ( as well as reporting it to the Hague of course).
Posted by: Stevan Whitehead at March 22, 2006 05:20 AMThis makes me sick too. We just got back from Guatemala, where we saw a number of children (10-12 year old girls) begging for money from us.
Education is not a priority, and from what we saw I hate to think what other atrocities happen to these children on a daily basis, if their families make them beg.
Don't get me wrong, I also saw beautiful children and families being loved and cared for, but they are not in the majority. Guatemala does not have the resources to support the extra 3600 children adopted each year, let alone the ones staying there. If birthmothers are willing to selflessly give their children to loving families, how can the US stand in their way?
Posted by: mlf at March 22, 2006 11:25 PMKevin and all -
What can we "do" at this point?
Is there anything that we can do as a collective community to express our deepest concerns to those who hold the "power" sort of speak in calling the shots from the U.S. side of things?
I am deeply concerned and even though my children are home ( thank God!) I still feel the need to do something for those children left behind........
Surely we can do something??!!!
I'll be interested to hear what you have to say,
Gloria Pickering
mom to 5 Guatemalan blessings
Does anyone know whether married UK adopters have to be married for 2 years before adopting from Guatemala? My partner and I are about to go to panel after the home study and an agency have told us this but no one seems to be sure, including the embassy.
Posted by: Caroline at April 5, 2006 07:59 AMI am in the process of adopting my so from Guatemala and I believe I just went into PGN. How long is it taking for the PGN process right now? I heard it is like 2-3 months for process due to the problems. Is this true? I appreciate any help on this. Thank you.
Patient Mother to be.
Has anyone heard anything about the conference on the Guatemalan adoption situation? I heard that it was this week? Any information would be greatly appreciated. I am in PGN now. Thank you.
Posted by: RJ's Mom at July 27, 2006 08:00 PM