Attn Susana Luarca,

We have appreciated everything you have done in the past for the adoptive families. Any way the ADA lawyers could do a followup meeting with the head of PGN to find out why the slowdown hasn't improved???

Gail

Kevin, glad that you mentioned the point that agencies are not in a position to promise families anything. I read the posts where families say their agency told them the wait would be over in 4 weeks for example, and then they are upset when it doesn't happen. It makes me upset that any agency would promise such a thing. Even in good times, I think agencies are not in a position to make such statements. We have 2 wonderful children who were both born in Guatemala. We received the referral for our son at the tail end of the Hague ordeal. I remember preparing myself for the worst case scenario - I thought it could easily take 1 1/2 years until he came home. In the end the wait was 3 1/2 months. I think it best to prepare for the worst and hope for the best, but don't hang onto any agencies word - a word they are not in the position to deliver on as we are all dealing with a foreign and sovereign government when it comes to international adoptions. For all who are desperately waiting, the day WILL come!
Lilian

Hi all, I am curious as to what happened after the "positive" meeting with PGN and the attorneys? Are we still to think that this has to do with the Hauge? If anyone has any news, it is better than nothing. Thanks from another set of frustrated parents. K. Miller

I join Gail in thanking Susana Luarca for everything she has done and continues to do. Is there anything the ADA attorneys can do to "press" the PGN director to move the cases along. My heart aches for all the children and families waiting to be united.

Could the slow down still be from a backlog of cases since there weren't hardly any coming out in April??
It is easy for people to say 'keep your chin up' than to actually be able to do it~ when all any of us want to do is be united with our children.

There HAS to be something that someone can do to help our families!! It is like the PGN is all high and mighty and cannot be disturbed with inquiries, but will be the first to suspend all processes just by 'assuming' that the Hague was going to be implemented! It is very frustrating .
Kelly M

It seems that the Attorney's would be able to find out the exact status of the case and if there are any problems. I have been in PGN for 12 weeks with no word at all. I can not undersatnd why things should not be moving. We are extremely frustrated too and sure would like help expediting this process. It has been seven months since our paperwork arrived in Guatemala. We just hope something good will happen soon.

What about cases that have been waiting in PGN since sometime last year? We've been in PGN since November, part of that being an investigation. It has already been six months stuck in PGN and now what? This is so maddening and frustrating. We're just supposed to sit and wait for the next few months or whenever he decides to start signing off cases? Seriously, who can help these cases? I would like to know.

Dear Susana,

I second the request for a meeting of the ADA with the new director. What you reported that he said he would do is NOT getting done. How can we follow up on this and help you?? There are a number of us fostering here in Antigua that would LOVE to help. How can we do this? Myself and others have been in PGN since February and are still receiving previos! It is so frustrating to see folks going into PGN in April and coming out now. What is happening to us? PLEASE let us know what to do....
Janice

I don't know what is going on there, but I can say that we are part of the sprinkling of cases exiting. We got out of PGN about 8 days ago. Just reading message boards and such it sounds like things are really crawling, but there is hope as some of us have made it out.

I just wish we had some real information so we could have some idea what to expect. I have been in PGN since March 14th, with 3 previos, supposedly everything is set now and I am just waiting for the director to sign off. I know not everyone (or even close to everyone) is on the internet, but there have been very few outs in the last week. Especially given the backlog that must be on the director's desk. So, can I expect to be out in 2 weeks, 2 months or never? I know that no one has the answers but it is so hard. I can't plan anything and my poor baby is getting older and older.

Frustration reigns! Our paperwork has been in Guatemala since the end of December and we aren't even in PGN yet. We are still waiting for DNA authorization. What is going on? We feel so HELPLESS. WHAT CAN WE DO? This isn't right for these babies that are growing up without permanency. HELP!!!!

Scott- How long were you in PGN before you exited and did you receive any previos during your time in PGN?
KM

Unfortunately....
Nobody is in a position to force the PGN director to sign off. If your case has been in there since last year, there is possibly some other issue (whether legitimate or not) holding it up. I am sure the current slowdown compounds the issue.

Please remember that while there is a slowdown, these are individual cases. The only individuals who are privy to the case should be the agency, attorney, US Embassy and PGN. We (Guatadopt) can tell you about slowdowns, but we can't predict what that means for individual cases.

If cases continue to be held-up, the US Embassy will probably inquire as to why. But I suspect that they would wait until things got really obviously bad before they did anything.

Again, I wish I could do more...but the only thing I can do is offer support and what information I have.

First off I want to give prayers to everyone waiting for PGN, I am waiting for the works of DNA. I wish there was something we all could do to make this process move for everyone. I for one thought I would be bringing home an infant, one of the reasons we went with guatemala. Who knows maybe we still will, but looking at alot of time lines of others I`m now thinking maybe not.
This is so unfare to the babies to keep them away from their loving family, they grow more and more attached to their foster family and it makes it so much harder on the babies when the time comes for them to come home. Just praying that families are brought together real soon.

what does it mean when you say you receive "previos"?

Kevin or Kelly,
While I truly am happy for those few who are exiting PGN, it seems that many of the recent "outs" are cases that entered PGN in April and those of us who were March or before, just wait.
Now I know that cases are not approved first come first serve, but why are the earlier submitted cases seemingly taking longer? There seem to be quite a few others like ourselves who have been in for many many weeks, whose waits after previo re-enteries seem very long in constast to some of the more resent outs-Perhaps its just my perseption-Would love your thoughts-
Connie

Just curious, but does anyone think that all of our "border issues" have anything to do with this?

How does one go through a day without anxiety about this situation?? Every time the phone rings, I take in a deep breath hoping it is the agency calling to say we are out of PGN. We will be in for two months on Monday with no word of anything. Our son is 7 months today. He was referred at 2 weeks old. This is our second adoption, the first was in 2004. Our first son was in PGN for only SEVEN business days. This wait is a new experience for me.

How do you have hope? How do you remain calm?

Nadia

Hey Kelly M.

We entered PGN on March 15 and exited around May 15. We encountered no objections in PGN. Considering what I hear from others, our situations must have been exceedingly rare. But we are out.

In response to Nadia......we DONT get through a day without anxiety. Or at least I don't. I know exactly what you mean about the phone ringing. I do it ever time too. My case has been in since January.

Is there anyone here who knows if speaking to our agency would help? If we can get our agency to speak with the US Embassy maybe they will AT LEAST inquire with the PGN as to what is going on.

Gosh.....ANYTHING at this point would be better than nothing.

Prayers to all.
Peg

I was wondering if there is validity to the thought that cases in PGN might not ever make it out? I hate to be gloom and doom - but given the Hague issues again, is it something that could happen? I know that there have been statements made to the effect that if certain parts of the process are complete under "old" laws that they should be ok - but what if they're not?
Diane

We are entering PGN on Wednesday June 1. We just got PA yesterday. Our agency told us to contact the Embassy regarding our daughter's case; twice. So after 41 days in PA we finally got it. We realize PGN will also be a wait, but we know it's one step closer to bringing her home. All we can do, like everyone else, is pray! We pray for our daughter, for her safety and health. We pray for the hogar and all the children of Guatemala. We pray for all the birth families and birth mothers and for all the caretakers of the children. We mostly pray for the officials in Guatemala to REALIZE the children NEED to be home with thier forever families.
Maybe in a month we will be at our "wits end" but right now we can be happy we are finally entering PGN.

I wanted to express my appreciation of this website in keeping us worried, frustrated and emotional parents as up to date as possible on the PGN slowdown. There is a statement that was posted today on the JCICS website that they are looking into the situation and will try to obtain more info about a possible time-frame in which things will move forward. I pray that something can be done soon to help bring our precious babies home in a reasonable timeframe.

Is Kelly's statement of May 24th of "Nobody is in a position to force the PGN director to sign off" true? Can anyone deliniate the chain of command/responsibility for PGN and how it is accountable (or not) to the larger Guatemalan government or point me to a web site that does? I would like to know. If her statement is true than the "PGN director" position seems, theoretically, as powerful as that of president, diputados or the supreme court. Is it an appointed or elected position? Thanks much.

Susanna Luarca- You have been such a wonderful help, source of support, and information for families adopting children from Guatemala. Not to mention your tireless efforts on behalf of precious Guatemalan children in need of loving homes. We would love to hear from you about what may be happening in PGN at this time. It seems that the director's promise of releasing the cases that were held, is moving so very slowly yet. For those of us who have waited several months, it seems that things are at a stand still. Any update you could give, at this point, would be a blessing-

Sincerely,
Connie

We received news the end of March that we were out of PGN, and it only took 2 weeks. We excepted the referral on our baby boy Dec. 7th and we were in Guatemala April 1 holding him. We were so lucky it seems to have been able to get him so quickly. He was only 4 months old. I pray that all speeds up so that everyone can get their baby as quickly as we did.

Pablo -
Please read my comments in the context to which they were written. You interpreted it as "Nothing can be done"...ever. That is not what I said. The position of PGN Director is appointed. He could be "replaced", but literally he has not been forced to sign (just removed) and then you would still have to wait for the new director to sign.

I know there is a judicial route (which can appeal a decision)....but I am not sure an "unsigned" review qualifies.

But to go back to the context of the original post....US government officials have no jurisdiction over the Guatemala government. They can apply pressure in extreme cases....but that doesn't always work (such as Romania).

I don't have a reason to think THAT would happen at this point....lets just hope that he gets on the ball and starts signing off those cases.

Hi all waiting families, Has anyone "gotton out" or heard of anyone who has left PGN in the last week or so? I get no information from our agency and am curious. K. Miller

I think this is terrible. Emotionally draining, and the babies suffer the most. We have been in PGN 12 wks now. They just kicked us out for a minor clerical error which was corrected and on its way down to Guatemala. But, our agency says we will have to start all over again in PGN. This is so sad and frustrating. I agree with who ever said it, we went to Guatemala for an infant who knows how old he will be when we bring him home, Maybe he will need a car not a crib!

We went into PGN in early April, kicked out for 4 previos, returned to PGN, kicked out for 1 previo, returned April 26, and continue to wait. In the meantime, our beautiful baby boy is having major developmental problems. We went to visit him last week. This baby, like so many others I am sure, need to get home so that they can get the help they need. The longer it takes the worse it will be. He has also been in THREE foster homes. Is there anything that can be done to expedite in a case like this?? We are more than frustrated. Thanks for the info on this site!

My question is, why? What is the point of delaying these cases anymore? On this site under the May 11th Headline "Mother's Day and Updates" it states "The PGN admitted that they were waiting for Congress to aprove again the Hague Convention, and that was why they were not releasing the files". Is this the reason? Are they waiting for a vote? If so is there any idea of when this vote will take place? Is there any other reason why? Is there a message they are trying to send? I just don't understand who wins by delaying these cases. Thanks for any insight.

Jenn

Jenn, no one wins. And it is a sad state of affairs when innocent children so often become pawns in someone else's game or power struggle. With that said, it is not something where we can only point fingers to the Guatemalan side. Back during the Haue fiasco in 2003, members of the US Congress told us that until Guatemala agreed to CAFTA, there were no other discussions going on between the countries. Not exactly the same, but examples are abound of where people forget to put the children first.

It seems as though every 9-12 months PGN slows down. There is always some "reason" - new legislation being considered, new head of PGN, new head of the adoption unit, new paperwork being required by the PGN reviewers, etc.

MY OPINION is that Guatemalan adoptions have been controversial and in a tenuous situation ever since it unknowingly took on the role of being the Latin-American holdout on effectively ending intercountry adoption. The laws of Guatemala and its constitution are designed in such a way that the government can't legally end ICA as was done in their neighboring countries. This is part of a larger issue involving consitutional rights and the precedent set to end the 36 year civil war. If Guatemala does not respect its constitution, it becomes part of a larger issue that threatens the peace. This has made adoption protected in ways it maybe did not intend.

Whatever the case may be, I believe that it is a power struggle and PGN is basically flexing its muscle. A way to say "we can't stop you adoption lawyers, but we can make your lives painful". In other words, just bad governmental behavior that is common throughout the world.

Just my dos quetzales and not necessarily those of Guatadopt.com,

Kevin
Guatadopt.com

I did notice on one of the boards that there were a few Outs posted. (This was yesterday when I saw the posts.)

-Jenn

Sometimes writing it all down cleanses the soul.

What I would say to PGN…….

To the person or persons that have power…to the person who may be holding a pen in his/her hand but still hesitating to sign….I don’t know you ……but this is me…..

I am, at this moment, a lost soul. I have struggled through a number of years hearing a faint voice calling me to be a parent. I have listened with sharpened hearing to where the voice is coming from and was led to your country. There, I put a beautiful face and name to this voice and immediately gave him my heaped up heart. I held him, I smelled him, and then with saline kisses….I left him. My heart has not stopped aching since.

Every day that you withhold is a day lost. While you wallow in what may be political and/or moral strife, two hearts sink deeper into despair.

I am not proud…so I be for your mercy. How can I help? What can I do? How can I make you see the pain of this separation?

Please, please….let me bring him home.

Jenn...What boards posting exits from PGN are you referrring to?

I couldn't help but write again and I wholeheartedly agree with so many of you that it's the kids they're hurting by this slow down. Of course, it's painful for us as adoptive parents but in the end it's the kids well-being that is suffering. I go to the computer many times a day to see if there is any GOOD news and that things are moving but alas there is NOTHING. My baby is growing up without her forever family being there to love and adore her. Since we've been waiting 4 months for DNA authorization we haven't even been able to go and see her because of our agency's policy of not allowing you to visit until after a match has been made. She's 7 months old now!!!! We had hoped to be bringing her home in June or July. WHERE DO WE TURN FOR HELP?!! I have a friend fostering her baby in Antigua who's been there since May 5 waiting to get out of PGN, which her case has been in since February. She's got family at home that need her too and yet no idea of when her case will be out. This isn't right. There needs to be some kind of regulation as to how long a case can sit around before being completed. I'm beginning to wonder if our dream of adopting our Guatamalan baby will ever come true.

I think this question should be directed towards Kelly or Susanna, ( or anyone else who may have a comment). I have heard mention that hopefully PGN will start releasing cases soon and that our government is not able to help in these situations. My question is, if PGN is indefinitely stalled, what then? What would be considered an extended time frame and what would be the protocol for that? Are we hopelessly stuck in the great abyss or is there some type of recourse in helping extreme cases, (if they become that)?
Thank you for all of the information you have provided. I feel very confident in what I have read here. I'm sure I can say this for a lot of us...we don't necessarily want sugar coated answers, just the truth and an honest answer of what to expect. I realize that no one really had a good idea of what was about to happen. But, it did. And now, my main concern is, what next?
Gayle

I have been posting on this web site since we entered PGN and found it very helpful to hear everyone's stories, both good and bad. It gives us a sense of belonging. I just want everyone to know after9 weeks in PGN we were approved today. I pray and hope for all of you and continue to pray for those most important, the children of Guatamala. K. Miller

I bet the process would speed up considerably if the attorneys and agencies were penalized financially for the excessive delays. I just do not understand how something cannot be done. How can 1 person (PGN Director) hold so much power? He is just his own entity? No one to answer to? Does what he wants whenever he wants? Sounds like a dictator, not a PGN Director to me. So frustrating.

I have read everyone's notes, and I know your pain. We are in PGN with our daughter, as well.

Although... there is movement in PGN. We were visiting our daughter in Guatemala the first week of May, and several families at our hotel, were bringing their babies home. In addition, on our plane trip home, there were 6+ babies going home with their new families.

Our agency has had several come out of PGN within the last few weeks, rather rapidly. Things ARE moving.

God never promised life would be easy, but he did promise he will take care of us in HIS timing.

God said when we all come together, and pray in one accord, He will answer our prayers.

God does not watch over one country, or two, or three - He watches over them all.

In our prayers,
Cheri

Claire,

There have been some on the Big List and some on the adoption.com forum.

-jenn

I spent 2.5 weeks in Guatemala(with my baby girl) and just came home. There were quite a few babies going home when I was there. I have been in PGN for about five weeks now and am going back to Guatemala to foster my daughter until she comes home. I'm hoping it will be soon:)

Our agency has had several out of PGN as well.

Cheri,

Very beautifully written.

Lilian

Where is this "big list"

Can anyone who has recently received their child's pre approval visa tell me how many days it took to get it?

Also, has anyone had to get their DNA test results certified and authenticated?? Our agency is making us do that.

Thanks
KM

I wrote about two weeks ago in regard to our two son's paperwork being split up through the embassy progress. One was approved the 11th of May and the second we received approval on the 29th. They have now entered PGN togather.
The agency is telling us 8-10 weeks. Have anybody heard any different.

KM,

Our son's pre-approval took 34 days and our daughters took 43 days. Our agency told us to contact the embassy regarding our daughter's after our 40th day. The first email stated still working on it, and the second email stated she had pre-approval the previous day, but the embassy didn't send the official email needed for another week and only sent the email to my husband and i not our attorney or agency!
Good luck

Kelly,
It was a long time ago for my pre-approval(and I am very anxiously awaiting PGN approval, after a resubmission due to a typo! 12 weeks or so now!), so I won't comment on that. My agency did not require cert and auth on my daughter's DNA testing. I haven't heard of anyone else doing that...Claire

My agency required that we get our DNA authenticated and certified. It sounds like some agencies require it and others do not. I did see that several people on the yahoo and the big list were kicked out of PGN for lacking DNA authentication and certification. This all happened several weeks ago. I have no idea if that is still occurring. Maybe someone with more knowledge than me can answer that question. We have been in for almost 12 weeks total now...we went in on Feb 28 got kicked out in Mid-April for lacking Pre-Approval and went back in on May 3. I hope we all hear good news soon!
Damian

Holly, we've been in PGN since March 13th and my husband is now in a position to travel to Guatemala for an extended visit. Can you share any information on where you are staying? an apartment? where?, in Antigua? Hotels that are reasonable...?
Thanks for the info.
sally schaefer

We have been in the PGN since March 3, 2006. We just received notice from our agency that we had two previos. (they should be corrected this week) Our case should be resubmitted next week. Can anyone tell me where the file goes after its resubmitted? Does it go back to the case worker, or at the bottom of the pile - Any information would be appreciated.

Thanks everyone.
Kristina

The lab that processed our DNA paperwork took care of getting it notarized, certified and authenticated. The lab is called "Orchid Cellmark". It is a lab that our agency switched over to using as of Jan 1, 2006 becuase it does take care of the certification and authentification. The "old" lab our agency used only had the results notarized then the client had to send it off to be certified and authenticated.

Kristina,

As I understand it, most recently the cases kicked out of PGN were resubmitted and appeared to be exiting quicker than others waiting. Of course this is not always true, but from the end of April to middle of May, that seemed to be the case.

Please read my next comment for additional information we confirmed this morning on exiting PGN.

I pray that you get word soon!

Cheri

Another adopting friend of mine contacted me this morning with news that she had spoken with an agency that claims over 200 cases exited PGN last week in Guatemala. When she told me this, we talked about posting the news - but wanted to confirm the information with our agency before posting information that may or may not have been correct.

Our agency confirmed that over 200 cases exited PGN last week. The 200 consist of both final approvals and kick outs. Even though these 200 were not ALL final approvals, this is still very good news! This says that PGN IS MOVING!!

This was very exciting news for our families, and I hope that the news is good for all of you as well.

Cheri

Kelly,

We recently received our pre visa approval. The embassy received our paperwork on May 9th and we received the email statementing that the approval was ready to be picked up on May 31st.

My agency told us to email the embassy requesting status on the approval, and their response was that they had received it on May 9th, and that they have 30 days to review it. I was told by our agency to mark the 30 day point on my calendar, and email them again if we did not receive it. They stressed the importance of being polite in the emails. We were fortunate that we did not have to follow up with the embassy, but US senator and congressman offices can inquire on your status, as well, if you are delays more than the 30 days.

As far as the certification and authentication of your DNA... The embassy processed DNA with the copy they received from our attorney. We were mailed another packet with a "copy" for our records, and another original with instructions to get the Secretary of State Certification and the Guatemalan Consulate Authentication. Then we forwarded that document to our agency, then they sent it to our attorney.

When we were kicked out of PGN, they did not ask for the DNA, but our attorney sent it back in with the other to cover the base in case it became an issue once back in. As I understood it, it depends on your examiner in PGN. Sometimes they require the authentication, and sometimes they don't. Our agency has stressed the importance of "consistancy" on all paperwork. They say non-consistancy throws up a red flag, and most of the time it causes problems for families.

Our lab was LabCorp, and they did not handle their own certifications and authentications. I noticed in a previous posting, that someone used a lab that handled all of that within their services.

I hope this helped you,
Cheri

Kelly,
My case was kicked out of PGN alittle over 2 weeks ago for not having the DNA authenticated. It had been notorized but they wanted the additional stamp. I am currently waiting for my DNA results to come back from the Guatemalan Embassy in Atlanta. The results first had to go back to Lab Corp and get a new notary stamp on them, then go back to the North Carolina Sec of States office for authenication then onto the embassy for legalization. I went into PGN in Jan and was kicked out due to lack of Pre-Approval so hopefully this will satisfy them and there will be no more previos. I would get the results authenticated just to be on the safe side and save time.

Good Luck
Donna

Kristina-We were also kicked out for previos, but this has happened to us twice. According to our agency,the case goes back to the same reviewer, but not to the bottom of the pile. We found out late last week that our case has been signed off on by the reviewer, but it continues to sit on the director's desk waiting for final approval. This is getting very frustrating...

I read the postings regarding PGN with mixed emotions. We have been in and out of PGN, unsuccessfully, since late March. While we hope for a more expedient resolution and homecoming, I wanted to share another perspective. This is our second adoption from Guatemala. The first was caught up in the Hague fiasco of 2003. That adoption took an agonizing 16 months from the birth of our child. During that time, we were frustrated, angry, and crazy with emotion. I look back now with a different view. I am thankful that he had a loving, caring foster family who provided him with a solid, family foundation for the transition to us. I am thankful to the adoption professionals who work tirelessly on our behalf. I am immensely and immeasurably grateful to the people of Guatemala...for providing a history and a country rich in heritage and tradition. We understand that our little one will come home in God's time and Guatemala's time. Once the wait is over, you will too.

Donna & Cheri,
Thanks for the info.
Our agency told us that yes- we had to get our DNA tests BOTH certified and authenticated. I sent it out yesterday and it should be arriving in NC today and I am having them forward it to Atlanta afterwards. I called both places and they have a pretty quick turn around time. NC said 2-3 business days and Atlanta will do it the day they receive it. We have been in PGN since April 28th, we have not have any previos YET-(that I know of) so I am hoping to get our visa pre approval before they previo it, but it's all about the timing at this point. I am expecting a previo since we don't have the visa PA yet, but maybe I will luck out and get it before they previo us. (Althought I am not usually that lucky!)
I was also told that the case does go back to the same reviewer, but that it DOES go to the bottom of the pile. I don't think anyone knows for sure.
Waiting for baby Rocco to come home!!!
Kelly M

Thank You Meg for your encouraging statement. It is very hard sometimes to wait on Gods timing, especially when we worry ourselves into a frenzy. I try really hard to take all of this with a grain of salt. This is our first adoption, and will be my first long awaited child. I have waited 10 years for her, and though the few extra weeks seem like an eternity, they will pass by. :) Thanks for the post.

I spoke to our facilitator and got some information from her. She advised that there are over 700 cases in PGN. She also advised tha the Director is in no hurry and is reviewing eveyone of them. This is quite different information than hearing that there were 200 outs. I am not sure who to believe. We have been in PGN for supposedly tweleve weeks with absolutely no news of previos or otherwise. So if you are getting some information that is better than none-Trust Me! My Agency does not know anything and my facilitator is very vague in what is being told. So I am really frustrated. I learned alot reading this site today!
Kim

My husband and I were put into Pgn on March 30th and was kicked out 22 days later for a typo on the birth certificate of either our daughter or her birth mother and was fixed and put back into Pgn on may 10th and it's been 26 days now and no news. Our daughter is 7months old now and sadly we are missing her growing and like others we went to guatemala to get an infant and appears to be not so. We pray every day to here something, we want to bring her home so we can be a family. I don't understand the hold up, you think they would want these children to be with there loving families and put this through. We just keep praying and hoping for this to end soon. God Bless

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