What about the 200 people who were supposidly "out" last week? Wasn't that progress?

Thank you for the update. I was wondering who employs the staff at PGN; who signs their paychecks and where does that money come from? Is there anyone with more authority than the PGN director to investigate the slow down.
If PGN is truly set up to process over 4000 cases per year then they need to release about 17 cases or more per day (my own convoluted math). Can the director keep up with that number of cases in an 8 hour day? Where are the outs??

Kelly,
Thank you for bringing the subject up again. Even though all of the answers are obvious....The fact that there is nothing any of us can do to speed up the process and that we just have to patiently wait until accepted, it helps to know that the "problems" are on someone else's mind as well. Thank you again for the updates.
Gayle

I have been in PGN for 7 weeks as of yesterday. I then received an email advising that I had been kicked out due to a "new requirement" that no one else (lawyers, agencies, embassy) had been told about. The requirement didn't make any sense. Needless to say my agency told me today that from what they have been told is that 1/2 of the reviewers in PGN are FOR international adoption and the other 1/2 are AGAINST international adoption. They also told me more than one reviewer goes over your file and one may sign off on it as okay but then the next reviewer finds a reason to kick it out! I know that we all have different beliefs but the bottom line is the well-being of the children.

The "corrected" form is expected to be resubmitted to PGN next week but I don't know whether it has to go through the same reviewers again or if it goes and sits on the directors desk for his sign off. Does anyone know what happens after a kick out and resubmission?

I prayed last week for my case to come out of PGN but I guess I wasn't specific enough!

Thanks for the updates! Good news or bad news they do help.
Michele

Thank you, Kelly, for the update. Even contact/communication that provides nothing definitive is helpful. I suppose knowing that someone is paying attention and cares enough to address concerns and anxieties makes a BIG difference. Boy, this is all something else! Claire

Well, whoever those employees of PGN are, if they are trying to discourage adoptions from Guatemala, they are doing a good job.

Karen
9th week in PGN

Michele,

What was nte "new requirement" that you are speaking of?

Thanks!

Kelly,

Thank you so much for taking the time to give an update, even though it is nothing new. It is comforting in the midst of a long wait. We appreciate this site!

Connie

First I want to say that I can't imagine that the people who are working at the PGN, including the director, could take a position where their sole and primary purpose was to complete international adoptions if they were completely against them. That just makes NO sense what-so-ever. No matter what, the adoptions WILL be completed whether they are against them or not. No matter how long they take.

Second, I am calling on ALL of you parents to contact the jcics and any/every international adoption advocacy group to complain, complain, complain. They (jcics) posted a msg on their site that they were looking into the problem and would post an update when they get one, well that was on May 25th. There has been no info since. We ALL need to make our voices heard about this and the more of us who start to put the pressure on to get some kind of answers, the more inclined that they will start to put the pressure on PGN.
Joint Council on International Children's Services:

Phone: 703-535-8045
Fax: 703-535-8049
jcics@jcics.org

Thanks
Kelly M

Our case hasn't even gotten to PGN yet, but reading all these posts about how cases continue to be stalled there makes me incredibly anxious about what will happen when it does. Taking into account the political sensitivities of those within Guatemala who are in favor of international adoption vs. those opposed to it, isn't there someone within the Guatemalan political hierarchy with authority over the PGN director who can be alerted to the slowdown not to investigate what's happening as Carrie has suggested, but to put pressure on the director to get these cases moving? I undestand that we need to be careful not to fan the flames, but at the same time, there must be someone within the political bureaucracy with authority over PGN who the Guatemalan adoption community (attorneys, agencies, adoptive parents, etc.) can lobby to get something done.

Well, after I had moaned and complained online, even posting here about the new director not signing off, I found out last week that we did, indeed, get a sign off of a kickout 5 1/2 weeks after being submitted. Now, yes, it was a kickout, but it was a bit comforting (?) to know that our case had been looked at and that he did sign something. However, I had been complaining because we had been in PGN for 8 weeks and not heard anything - when in fact, our lawyer FAILED to tell our agency of the kickout! So for nearly 3 weeks I thought we were stalled in PGN when in fact the lawyer was dealing with the previo.

We are supposed to be re-submitted into PGN today.

This time around I'm going to TRY and remain calmer. The truth is, we really don't know what the agenda of the PGN staff is, all we are doing here is assuming and perpetuating heresay. I will look for postings from Susana Luarca, JCICS and GuatAdopt for the concrete truths...and pray that our baby will come home soon, along with everyone else's.

Kelly M,
I have done what you suggested about contacting everyone I can think of to get someone to try and help. Nothing seems to happen. I think not knowing what is really going on is the worst part. I have been in PGN for 12 weeks. I have attempted to call PGN myself to get the status of my case and they would not tell me, and advised that my Attorney was the only one that could be provided information. I asked JCICS to take the information for PGN off thier web site because it would be a waste of time to contact them because they will not tell you anyhing. It is all very frustrating.
Kim

My agency told me that the "200 outs" were actually kick outs, not out outs. I was one of them ...

I've been in PGN since November! My prayer is that this nightmare will end soon for all of us.

I would like to offer a personal pray for those of you who are in the PGN. We travelled to Guatemala in May of 2004 to get our son. We were part of the original group of adoptees that were stuck in the first Hague Treaty crap (2003/2004). It took us almost a year to get our son. We were in the "blackhole" (PGN) for 6 months. Talk about a nightmare. I feel for each of you. Try to stay as sane as possible. You will win - just don't know when.

I just called JCICS in regards to the PGN stoppage. All they could tell me was that they couldn't tell me anything and that they have no idea why the slow down. They did not think that our State Department would be willing to exert any pressure because they are not sure the cause of the problem. It was not a promising phone call. She told me that we should continue to look at the JCICS web site for updates.

Donna.

It is not the job of PGN to decide IF they like international adoptions or not. It is their job to examine each case for signs of fraud. Since when do you get to do whatever work you "like" and let the rest sit on your desk. I have a desk that I really don't "like", but I have to do it anyway. I think PGN is a little full of itself and have a little too much power.

To all those people who are going through this very emotional process,I would not ever recommend it! As of today,june 8,2006,we have been in PGN now for 15 weeks.The reason we decided to go with the Guatemala program was the age of the infant that we were able to adopt would be young,about 6 months or so.Today the little girl we have been watching grow up on the internet since her birth is now over 8 months old.I do feel the PGN is not aware of infant/child development and behavior and the emotional trama that they are putting the child through in every passing day, to them it,s just another baby and will flow through their large stack of paperwork that is sitting on someones desk.In two weeks I am going to go to Guatemala case in or out,to spend time with my daughter. Does anyone have any suggestions? Thanks for listening.
A. Sims

Hi, Just for hopes sake, We went into PGN on March 24 and KO early April no PA, We were resubmitted on April 24 and were released OUT on 6/5. Just wanted to give you all a little hope.

I sit here day in and day out and read all of these stories and think how very sad they all are. We have been in the pgn for 6 weeks today.There has got to be something that can be done. I can not believe that the man in charge of the pgn can do what he is doing to all of us. How heartless can he be.We adopted our first son in 2004 and got hung up in the hague thing and now problems again with our second son.It is really sad that these children have loving families to go home to and they can not get there.

Michelle

Since my husband and I finally decided to go with adoption to build our family, we have been checking in with this site daily. We are grateful to be learning from other people's experiences.

For many reasons, we were first drawn to Guatemala. We are contemplating signing with an agency that only does inter-country adoptions with Guatemala. But we are wondering if that is too risky. Should go with another agency that works with multiple countries in case US/Guatemala adoptions come to a standstill or stop altogether? Do you think it's a bad idea to start a Guatemalan adoption process right now? Thanks for any thoughts you are willing to share!

I too have watched my daughter to be-hopefully! grow up on the internet before my eyes. From two months until now. She currently is 13 month old. I like others are frustrated because there does not seem to be anything that we can do about. I have contacted JCICS on numerous occasions and allthough they are sympathetic they claim they can do nothing. So why claim to be the Joint Council Of International Childrens Services. We can only hope that someday soon something good will happen and we will bring these children home.

It is a shame that there are child advocacy groups out there that are supposed to help w/ international adoption issues. What good are they if they can only be 'sympathetic' and not give any decent or real answers?! I just find it incredibly hard to believe that no agency, lawyer, advocacy group, or political person can find out what is really going on in PGN. I just don't think that they know how to go about doing it in a proper manner so no one bothers. If this is going to continue, then why aren't the lawyers getting together to request bi-weekly meetings with the PGN Director to continually check on the status of cases being released? That would make the most sense you would think. This director is basically playing the role of 'God' by determining who is going to 'get' their child this week and who is not. It is so unfair. How is this legal?!?!

Kim,
How long have you been in PGN? Just curios since you mentioned you rec'd your referral at 2 mos and your daughter is now 13 mos. I feel for you. THat is awful. I'm sorry.
Kelly M

I hate to even bring this up as it may suggest corruption, but is it possible that some attorney's are getting preferencial treatment by PGN? This comes to mind as I hear of some cases being approved in 8-12 weeks and others still waiting more than 6 months.

Hi Gin,

My personal opinion - even in "good" times, I wouldn't go with an agency that works exclusively with one country (at least not if it's only Guatemala) because international adoptions = uncertainty. Guatemala has had it's share of uncertaintly prior to this, so I would recommend going with an agency that has a large Guatemalan program but also deals with other countries.

On whether to start now at all, hard to say. If I were in your shoes, I would ask this question to several agencies that you might be considering to get an idea of how they feel. I know the agency I worked with twice (both with Guatemala) is encouraging folks to submit their paperwork prior to the end of 2006 as 2007 is a big unknown regarding the US's stand on Guatemalan adoptions.

Best of luck.

Well, we all have our stories of frustration with the process, for sure.
I'll just get my timeframe out there and you all can realize that there is no rhyme or reason.
Entered PGN 02/15, 6 weeks later a new director - no outs for an entire month. First part of May - a Kick-out for a picky little thing on the pre-approval form. I waited 12 weeks for a k.o.?! Four more weeks have gone by without any word. 16 weeks...
Rumors fly that this current director is soon to be moving on and a new director will be named. We can only hang on to our hopes, continue to remain positive, and monitor this wonderful website for updates and communications.
This website is wonderful.
Diane

Thank you for the update.

lt's nice to know we're not alone. We are now entering our 14th week in PGN. My employer is going batty trying to figure out when I will be going on leave. I wonder if it makes sense to go down and visit our daughter again while we are waiting. She's grown up so much!

Kelly M.
I have been in 16 weeks. My paperwork went to Guatemala 10/25, Pre-Approval 2-22, PGN 3/6. No word since then-Nothing!
I can not believe that there is someone else new coming in, it was my understanding that the man that is there now just came in 4/1? Why someone new now? I take that as a bad sign because someone new will hold up cases due to lack of knowledge. I do not know how much more I can bear.
Kim M.

Just a bit of info--we spent a grand total of 14 weeks in PGN, kicked out twice. We finally have been signed off on 6/2. I also know of another case that was released 2 weeks earlier, first time in, with no previos. I don't understand what is going on in PGN. It is moving, but who knows what the motivation to release some cases versus others is. They can't think about the welfare of the children, or they would not leave them there to lag behind developmentally, or any of the other "things" that go on while we are here waiting. Mine baby boy is on his third foster mother. Thank God it will be his last! Try to hang in there everyone, and say your prayers. I'll be saying mine for you all.

We just found out today that we were kicked out (after 4 weeks) because a document from the U.S. Embassy was signed with an electronic signature instead of being hand written. Apparently the U.S. Embassy is using electronic signatures now and PGN isn't accepting them. This could be the reason for the large number of previos lately. My agency is trying to find out if this is going to be a universal problem, i.e. all US adoptions or if this is the work of one particular PGN reviewer. Obviously this could be a very big problem and cause literally 100's of previos if not immediately resolved. Knowing how PGN is so particular I am surprised the Embassy wouldn't have contacted them to inform them of their new policy. Vice versa, knowing the document came from the US Embassy you would think they would make a quick phone call to verify it's authenticity. Beyond frustrating.

Well, we got a previo today. Seems that they didn't like the stamped signature on the PA from the embassy. Is this a new thing? Is this happening on all cases and is the embassy going to do something about it?

Here is the lstest I hear some may already know.
The new Director of PGN is not Pro-Adoption. He is out of town right now. There are 700 cases in. When the new Director took over her let go several experienced employees and put in replacements close to him and his thinking. There are only seven employees in the PGN. Some local Attorneys are encouraging families to contact US Congressmen and Representatives to contact the US Embassy in Guatemala to make inquirys as to the hold up and to try to encourage movement. It is worth a try. So even though I did not get particulars in regards to my case this information helps me understand why things are taking so long. Hopefully someone of influence will speak to the new Director and he will have a change of heart. We can only pray for a miracle.
Kim

Another PGN director on the way? Ugh! Let's hope (s)he gets things moving. Is anyone considering fostering in Guatemala? It's a thought right now. I am more than willing to share an apartment/costs/etc. I am not fluent in Spanish, but I think it's time to learn and fast. Does anyone know someone fostering in Guat. now?

Okay, we are currently in PGN. I am getting more frustrated by the day. I am getting less frustrated with PGN and more frustrated with my agency. Our agency just keeps saying, be patient, hang in there. I want to know the real story. What the heck is going on? I hear rumors of a new director, 21 people getting fired, 200 cases exiting for one reason or another, the director is on vacation...the list goes on and on. All I want is the truth!!! Where is it and where do we get it? My agency didn't even tell us when the Hague went to congress recently. Who is regulating this process, who is helping us powerless adoptive parents?

Sarah, you are not alone. Our Agency has provided no information either. The last news I got was from a facilitator. This end part of the process has been a nightmare. I wrote the US Embassy in Guatemala, and a US Congressman. It sure can not hurt. It is amazing that the Director can go on vacation with that kind of back log. I wish someone would give us true facts and exactly what to expect.

Jamie,
I would love to go down and stay a couple of weeks just don't know if I can afford it. If things continue the way they are going I may have to figure something out.
Kim

I have also been thinking about fostering in Guatemala, and am tired of being told to 'be patient'. I was patient for the LONG hold ups in order to obtain DNA approval, and will have been in PGN for 8 weeks on Monday, meanwhile my son is going to be 10 months old soon. How about Adoption Supervisors? Maybe does Susan Lucara has some ideas/suggestions because I frankly don't care if the PGN director likes or approves of international adoption - when he can come up with the finacial resources to take care of these children then he can have an opinion, until then DO YOUR JOB!!!! I am tired of contacting congressmen, jcics etc., with no results!!! Perhaps financially penalizing the agencies and the attorneys will get the ball moving, I will be contacting Adoption Supervisors and maybe if we all do it something will get done.

I contacted adoption Supervisors and if you are in PGN it is $3000. I hear that they can help. I am just scared it would back fire on me. Nothing I do seems to ge results either. The thing I have heard lately the most is your still in PGN and waiting like everyone else. I knew the wait would be long but it is getting to be too much.

My Husband and I adopted our first son starting our process in 2002, he was born 01/2003. We were moving along at a good pace and then got caught in the Hague in 2003. Our son had just turned one year old when we brought him home. It was a long difficult wait. Thought we would loose our minds, shed many tears, but once he was home it was worth some tears and loosing your mind.

Now we are adopting our second son from Guatemala. He is 8 months old and we started this process back in October 2005. We just got out of PGN.

For those who are still in the DNA process, Family Court or PGN, hang on, once you get that child,this pain will stop. The process is hard and I agree shouldn't be this hard, but words just can't describe how wonderful these children are. PGN time frame (4/26 to 6/5).

Robin Prewitt

Yes, I am getting more frustrated by the day too. How long did you have to wait to get DNA authorization, etc. Stacey? We have been waiting since the end of January. I am tired of waiting and being told to be patient too. Our baby is 7 1/2 months old and should have been coming home by now. This is getting WAY out of hand and I just can't believe that there is NOTHING any of us can do. Our agency doesn't tell us anything either except as I find out things and ask them if this is indeed what is happening. I can't understand why the agencies aren't telling us exactly what is going on. They have contact with our attorneys, etc. What gives? Please let us know what you find out if you contact Adoption Supervisors and if there's anything we can do, we will do it. I am so thankful for this site.

I understand your frustrations and could not agree more. Isn't funny we have to pay all the fees immediately, but the services we are paying for can be delivered whenever someone feels like it. None to quickly, I might add. What a shame it takes this much time, money, frustration, and tears to simple bring a child who has been legally classified as an orphan to a loving home. I really think we must bring the issues to the attention of government officials--state reps., senators, etc. It may not bring immediate results, but it will bring attention to the matter. Kim & Stacy--Please let me know if you decide to foster in Guat. The money is an issue for me also, but I refuse to watch my baby grow up over the internet while a PGN director refuses to sign off becuase he does not "like" international adoptions. Does this mean he "likes" for these children to live in extreme poverty with no chance for an education? Seems to me his "likes" are a little misaligned.

I can't even tell you for sure the exact time frame on the wait for DNA because I am not given specific information, lets just say it was a 'few'months. I also contacted Adoption Supervisors and was told it would cost $3000.00, since I am at PGN right now, I don't know if I can afford it, but I have been in PGN for 8 weeks today. If anyone is out there that has used Adoption Supervisors and has any input regarding their helpfulness in speeding a case along, please let me know!!! THANKS
Arvella I will let you know what I find out :)

Kim -
I don't believe Adoption Supervisors can force the PGN director to release cases. It is my understanding that they can only find out what is going on with the case and assist in getting necessary documents that MIGHT be holding it up WHEN the attorney is not doing his/her due dilligence.

Unless, you have a "problem" case, this is probably a complete waste of time unless they think they can convince the director to stop stalling a particular case.

I don't mean to be negative, but I do want to keep emphasizing that the problem is POLITICAL and out of the control of attorneys and agencies. Yes, some organizations like ADA are trying to reason with him and we've seen some cases trickling out because of it IMO.

I believe this is the influence of the President's wife, Wendy, who has had some misconceptions about international adoption as demonstrated by her statements and actions. The appointment of the PGN director has been their attempt to foil adoptions and to frustrate those spending time fighting to keep adoptions open in Guatemala. It is my understanding that some of these kickouts have been totally baseless.

With the politics demonstrated by our own Embassy in Guatemala and the US Department of State, I don't think they are going to voluntarily help. They SHOULD be encouraging PGN to let these children come home. But with the Hague looming, I wouldn't be surprised if they are happy that adoptions have been stalled and that fewer parents might be willing to take a chance to adopt in the near future.

Not a statement...but I do wonder....

How does the adoption supervisors work?

Sarah,
You said you just got out of PGN, how long were you in PGN?

thanks
Lee

Just want to say that after 16 weeks in PGN our case was finally signed off June 7. We had 2 previos during that time. The wait was so hard--I feel for you all. We did fly down to see our daughter (8 months old now) and that helped alot. I'll keep you all in my thoughts and prayers.

Our agency called on Friday and said that a group of attorneys, including our own, would be meeting with the director of PGN tonight at 7:30 to inquire about the hold-ups. We have been in PGN since December and hurt with the rest of you.

Who's really thinking of the welfare of these children? Is this really about the money? Does anyone else have to pay $250 per month over the six month waiting period. I've been in PGN 14 weeks now. Got our referral on Aug 1st. She was only two weeks old. She is now almost 11 months old!! Like the rest of you, this is heartbreaking watching your baby grow up on the internet with only a couple of pictures every month. Someone has to have some kind of power to intercede for all of us who are waiting for your children. This is not good for these poor babies. Please, if anyone is reading this and can make a difference, do it now!! Our children need to come home to their parents. If you are deciding to adopt, I would highly recommend not going to Guatemala. Good luck everyone. Shel

Hi ALL, I just wanted to say that I have emailed two US Senator's. I let them know what is going on in Guatemala with the new director of the PGN. Something needs to be done, if we all do not do anything he will continue to do the terrible things that he is doing. He is not for adoptions and it show's. If we all complain to the senator's they can contact the US Embassy to look into why he has slowed down to a crawl, and he is not letting cases come out.If we just sit back and do nothing we all could wait months and months. Some families have already been in for 12 to 14 weeks.So please all of the waiting families, come together and fight to bring our babies home.

Eric, Any news after the meeting with PGN?

Adoption Supervisors just assist, you know more that is all. They are willing to work with you directly instead of the frustration of not knowing anything. It is a tough call. I think they can help but you may make your Attorney mad that someone else is interfereing in thier case. Not to mention the money part of it.

Kelly,
I am aware of what the supervisors do and I know they can not force the completion. Can you advise what the President's Wife thinks and what she has said. Why can't anyone at least write letters to these people and document the response?

I truly believe that the attorney handling the case has the most influence on the people at PGN. I believe that if you have a lazy attorney, then your case will not move through as smoothly as an attorney who has a good reputation and is well known in the adoption community in Guatemala.

If adoption supervisors are willing to help families who have been stuck in PGN for weeks now, I say go for it. Who cares if your agencies turn their noses up at the idea, afterall YOU are paying THEM to handle your adoption and if you are not getting the info that you deserve to have then it is your right to hire someone who WILL get you the answers you are looking for. Whether or not they can get your case approved remains a question, but if you can get some answers then that is your right to know. I know that if I were stuck in PGN for 12+ weeks, I would be questioning/contacting EVERYONE possible.

Kelly M -

While this may be true during "smooth" times, it is NOT necessarily the case right now. Cases have been stalled for no good reason. The best, most attentive attorneys have been adversely affected by the current actions of PGN as well.

Again, I will reiterate that Adoption Supervisors might not be the best course of action for cases stuck in PGN right now.

Please read the announcement from ADA...this, IMO, seems to be the best course of action at THIS time.

I completley understand how everyone feels while you wait for your child. We brought our son home on 12/22/05 at six months. He is an absolute joy! I'd like to pass on some words that my husband said to me when I was feeling at my lowest while waiting. He said " The amount of time we are away from him right now is small compared to all the years we will be with him." This kept me positive and I can tell you that when you do bring your child home all these past feelings you had while waiting completley disappear. The wait, no matter how long is truly worth it! Best to all of you! You are in my prayers!

To Kelly M. who had a comment on june 13 about the hiring of adoption supervisors,did you get one? If so, did it benefit? who would you recomend? We are desperate, have been in PGN 16 weeks now!
Hope you can help, Thanks, Allison

Kim.
Just a coment regarding your question.

We´re in the middle of out third adoption. We worked with Asupervisors in our first two cases. Our second which just finished about a month ago, we had them basically handle the case because our attorney was so lazy and irresponsible.

We have been 6 weeks in PGN now and due to our experiences with our first two cases and adoption supervisors, we decided to write them and you know what they said? If your case is only a couple of weeks long you should wait a little bit more before hiring us. Anyway, these kind of things is why we used them succesfully before and why you can tell they won´t get your money unless you know for sure what you´re paying for.

I don´t think these guys can force anyone to sign the case out but they will find information. Also they were very clear from day 1 in our first case about a year ago, that they will not pay someone or do something illegal to try to get our case approved.

Anyway, for all of you something that they suggested and made a huge difference for us was to require a receipt (They call it contraseña) to your agency. T hat´s the receipt of when your case entered PGN. We even had a fake one from our agency the first time.
(wendibla@yahoo.com)

Wendi.

I feel so much for all of you waiting. We completed a Russian adoption a year ago, and experienced many similar delays in our process-it took us over 9 months from referral to home, and living life in a state of limbo while my daughter grew up across the world were the hardest months of my life. We'd like to adopt a son, but the Russian process is so unpredictable and wrought with delays, we are investigating other countries. I had heard such good things about Guatamaula, I was hopeful. I was glad I found this site, but it feels like the same uncertainty all over again. We are still researching, so I will pop by here to learn more and keep abreast of the situation.

To everyone waiting, once your kids are home, the pain of the wait WILL fade, and although I mourn the many months we lost with our little daughter, due primarily to political posturing, she seems to get more fun to be with every single day. Good luck to all of you!

Jennifer,

I visit several sites every day, looking for updates, stories, etc. and I have to say that a lot of the negative comments have been posted on this site. I continue to visit this site, because these are real families with real issues, and although I do my best to stay away from the negativity, as you so well know - adoption is full of emotions. A lot of the cases posting on this site have had problems - but there are plenty of others who have not.

Guatemalan adoptions are typically smooth when using an agency with experienced Guatemalan units. Kelly posted a wonderful section today at the top of the site, full of the things you should look for when choosing an agency for a Guatemalan adoption. The adoption agency you used for you Russian adoption may not be the best choice for a Guatemalan adoption.

Our experience with our agency has been wonderful!! We are waiting in PGN, but our agency clearly prepared us for each step of the way, and the other families with our agency seem satisfied, as well. Some families still waiting, and others who have brought babies home recently.

Don't give up on Guatemala! Just be careful about choosing your agency.

Prayers be with you and your family,
Cheri F