Adoptive parents are deprived of the early "birth-bonding" with our children. While Guatemala excels in offering personalized foster care which naturally promotes good attachment, it does not replace the need for attachment parenting. The new parent is also struggling with the giant change in their lives...how easy it is to hang on every well meaning friend's advice while depriving your child of necessary bonding.
Is there such a thing as "make-up" bonding? Well, my personal opinion is YES! Attachment parenting is s life-long strategy (age appropriate, of course) to promote strong bonds throughout a child's life. Like exercise alternatives, it is something that is chosen for your and your family and can be altered for certain lifestyles.
In the past, it has bothered me to hear a newly adopted parent say..."He bonded to me immediately". Typically, that statement is really "I have been bonding to HIM since the first referral picture and when he looks to me for care, I assume he is attached..." There is a magical moment when mom/dad and child come together...however, bonding is the close MUTUAL relationship established from ongoing care through sickness and health. It is a condition that the child KNOWS he/she can depend on your care. This history is missing for an adopted child and in MANY ways the child needs to be treated as a newborn!! Sadly, adoption is another trauma in a child's life...changing caregivers can have a devastating effect on a child's mental health.
I can go on about the potential issues with attachment disorders, but there are much better articles available! Every adoptive parent should read about attachment issues and the symptoms.
Friends, relatives and especially physicians (unfamiliar with adoption) will tell you to stick to schedules, get the child off the bottle, let them cry it out, keep the child in his/her own room and even that you are holding him/her too much. My personal "been there, done that" is to nod at the physician (no use arguing), discuss attachment strategy with close friends and family BEFORE they offer input and to discuss strategies with others who are in similar circumstances. Keep in mind that NO friend or family member is going to be appreciative of you scoffing their advice. Its a tough balance between letting yourself be constantly scolded and YOU alienating your friends by embarrassing them. If you are firm about your plans even before the child comes home, you will find ways to accomplish your goals *and* keep friendships in tact.
Again, attachment parenting is not a one size fits all routine. As a working mother (at least most of the time), I opted to select things that my friend (also an adoptive parent) chose NOT to do based on our child's personality and our own sanity. Dani will be 4 years old in the fall. She sleeps in a toddler bed in OUR room. When she is sick, she sleeps with me. To this day, she "snuggles" with me before bedtime and I can say that right now she is very well adjusted and attached.
Other things you can do:
Primary caretaker theory - In the beginning, one person should assume the primary caretaker role. Limit passing your baby around (hard for families and homecomings). The primary caretaker needs to do 90% of the primary tasks (like holding!). Let your family support you like preparing bottles! There is no problem with family members holding the baby...but you need to stress the importance of becoming the primary caretaker (even if the spouse is as excited and enthusiastic as you are). This bond will actually support family bonding with other individuals SOONER than if you do not take this approach. Whether or not "things are busy at work", you need to take some time off to promote bonding. Otherwise, a child may not understand who the primary caregiver is supposed to be!
Longer Bottlefeeding - The intimacy formed by providing sustinance to a baby is priceless. I treasured holding my daughter during this time. I don't remember when we stopped completely...but I do remember that we had a morning and nighttime routine well after it was necessary.
No crying it out for a couple of months - Yes, you will feel as if you are verginig on promoting bad habits. But I strongly believe that a habit was easier to break than therapy for a child traumatized by fear of neglect. Afterall, those first few months while your child may "appear" to be attached, they have no choice but to trust that you will act as their caregiver. Clinginess can be a symptom of fear. A clingy baby or child (one who fusses as soon as you leave their site) is looking to see if you will be there for them. This is where baby holding and wearing may give them more confidence to settle.
Baby wearing - Yes, it is true that a child hanging on your back or on your front fusses less than one in a crib. Though it is not always practical, it can be a miracle worker in stores or while trying to fold the laundry! This also had an interesting side-effect. I became ultra sensitive to my daughter's state of health. I could "smell" when she was starting to get sick or was worn out (a subtle change in her baby smell!). Today, she is still subconciously comforted by my closeness even when she is asleep. (When she is sick, she breathes easier next to me and when she has bad dreams she "settles" when I pull her close).Dani-time - We try to set aside a quiet time for just me and Dani each day. Since I am not a stay-at-home mom, we do not have the luxury of quatity time to promote attachment.
Hardships
It has not been easy being a working mom. Sometimes, careers are not conducive to being a good parent. I certainly earned the T-shirt for attempting the balancing act here!!! Moreover, its tough to keep the job stresses out of your child's care. I envy those who can cut back or even quit their job.
Today, I am happy to have a very independent, good natured and well behaved daughter. While I don't think I am the perfect parent and we do struggle with issues here and there....she is happy and healthy. More importantly, *we* are well attached!

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Thank you for saying the very same things I was sharing with another parent this morning. I have a 3 year old Guatemalan daughter at home. She has been home for two years now. As a single parent, I have to do what works for my family to keep us together as a family. This has included not listening to the Pediatrician's advice when he wanted me to take her bottle away at 12 months, right after she came home from Guatemala. I let her keep her bottle until 2 years, cutting back on the number of bottles but wanting her to have the benefit of the whole milk until age 2. Sleeping issues have been a struggle. One aspect of attachment parenting involves a family bed. We both get sleep if she is cuddled with me and in our family bed. It is better than having her scream and be rejected by the only caretaker and parent she has in her life.
I am in PGN(since Jan) with the adoption of my second Guatemalan daughter. I have been gravitating towards the literature regarding attachment parenting from Dr. Sears. My new daughter is crying in 90% of the photos I now receive. She will soon be 17 months old . The issues I will face when she comes home will be quite different I am sure. I take one day at a time, go with my gut and do my best.
Thank you for your posting. I think you were reading my mind!
Kelly-
Thanks for reminding me that the attachment process takes time. I met my daughter-to-be and it seemed like in only 3 days that the attachment process began to progress. She was so excited to talk to me on the phone the other day. I am going to print your post and reread it to keep my self in check. Your daughter is beautiful! Congradulations!
Donna
Kelly,
I am the Grannie-to-be of a dear baby boy, now 14 months old whose paperwork is now being held up in Guatemala. At 2 years old until about 3 years old my parents had to send me to live with relatives I did not know because my father was gravely ill and I did not know these relatives. They gave me adequate care but not emotionally loving. When my family was reunited at age 3 my parents were psychologically unaware and chose to go on as if nothing had happened. They treated me as if nothing had happened in my life. I have lived with this deep scar of fear of abandonment my entire life and have been in therapy often since midlife. As a psychiatric nurse (big surprise at the choice of my profession and my daughter being a Ph.D. psychologist) I understand now professionally, that the most vulnerable time for children to experience abandoment problems is 18 months to 3 years of age.
Your article Kelly, really highlights a critical issue with adoption. So much CAN be done to prevent PTSD from changing "mothers" at adoption at later and senstive ages, BUT parents MUST be aware that there are problems at these ages AND be pro-active and address the issues. They cannot do what my parents did and pretend NOTHING is happening. Things can look so fine on the surface as small children try and please their parents, as to them, their lives depends on their parents - and at that age, they truly does.
You have done a good job of highlighting the need to deeply address the psychological needs for attachment and prevent abandonment fears. Maybe you could give us all even more material on this issue as it is SO critical. The one thing I asked our daughter and so-in-law when they said they were going to adopt, was, "please don't adopt anyone between the ages of 18 months and 3 years. I can't bear to live through that trauma again through a beloved grandchild." Well, I guess I will be doing it afterall with this slowdown. I guess some lessons you get to learn over and over. Thanks for the help. This lesson is more important than you know. I have struggled with it for 58 years.
Posted by: Ruthie Williamson-Kirkland at June 20, 2006 02:43 PMKelly,
You have an absolutely beautiful daughter and she looks extremely happy to me! Thanks for sharing her picture.
I appreciated hearing another adoptive parent sharing some of my similar struggles with helping friends and family understand that attaching/forming a bond/connecting with my adopted baby will be different than with a biological child for lots of reasons. Some folks are more open to hearing this than others. At this point, I'm just grateful to people who don’t roll their eyes at me in disgust and pass judgment.
I use the words bonding and attachment loosely because I think it means something different to everyone. While there is a clinical definition of bonding or attaching I think people use it in conversation without necessarily considering or even knowing their formal definitions.
My husband and I are adopting a baby girl from Guatemala. I visited her for a week and I can't tell you how much I valued my time with her - every second was precious to me. I exhausted myself with trying to take in every breath and movement. I certainly felt a bond - a strong connection with her - I like to think all of the talking and cuddling I did with her and the intense long stares, smiles and cooing she showed me indicated a connection with me too.
I'm curious about the primary caretaker theory- I haven't read any research in this area and I'd be very interested in reading the research you’ve read or know of supporting that theory and finding out how long the primary caretaker role lasts.
While, I can agree that it's important not to pass your child from family member to family member (initially), I think it's extremely important my husband and daughter begin attaching immediately; and providing her care equally would help them do that. I think it's critical not only to his development as a father, but also to her getting to know his role in her life. I wouldn't want her to see him as the guy that occasionally feeds her and reads a story now and again, but as a loving doting dad that will be there when she needs him (equally as much as when she needs me). Please pass on any info you have. Thanks!
I have to tell you that I wonder too how I'll manage all of the things I do in addition to caring for our baby. I’m confident I’ll find an appropriate balance as I shift priorities, learn how to let things go, and ask for help (all of which will be REALLY hard). I was disappointed to read in your article - “Sometimes, careers are not conducive to being a good parent.” As if you can’t be a good parent if you work. I’ll bet you’re a lot like me and many other women who hold themselves to a level of expectation that no one can possibly maintain - we try to do it all – significant other, extended family obligations, the house needs to look great, managing a career, etc., etc. Whose standards are we holding ourselves up to anyway? Who created the definition of a “good parent”? I write this not to be critical, but because I think as women we need to create OUR OWN individual expectations, let ourselves off the hook once in a while, and give ourselves a pat-on-the-back for balancing all of these things or letting some of them go when we need to (and not get looked down on upon for it).
This is the first time I’ve posted on this site. Thanks for letting me babble.
Michelle - I am always glad to see parents post their thoughts. This subject is especially good for discussion.
My thoughts on primary caretaker are a mix. I'll check my books, but a lot of this comes from talking to attachment psychologists and a few parents who have had to deal with some serious attachment issues and became their own best expert. I'll review some of my books...I remember an in-depth article which covered this information too. But for the record, I think one needs to just think about the reasoning and apply practices that seem to make sense for the situation. The reasoning is that a confused child can focus on the *reliability* of a primary caretaker and theoretically, easier for a child to decipher. Saying that, my husband was very much involved with holding time, feedings and such. But in the beginning, we made it a point for me to be the "first response" and to be always visible (at least to what I could sanely take ;-) The intent was not to delay bonding with the rest of the family, but to make it more *natural*. I also do not believe that it is the end of the world if you don't do exactly this. But I do believe that it is easier for a child to bond to both parent using the primary caregiver concept....I'll also say that taking it too far is probably counter productive...and I'll venture to say that my daughter attached to him VERY quickly because she was comfortable with our "roles". Don't get me wrong...my hubby was quite the expert on bottle mixing, poopy diapers and recognizing cries....but initially, I was always on the front lines.
As far as my statement "Careers may not be conducive to being a good parent". I didn't mean it as a blanet statement of all careers nor do I mean to incinuate that moms wouldn't struggle for that magical balance. But in my chosen field (software engineering) and I am sure other high stress jobs tend to reek of the "Mothers need not Apply" syndrom. I have been pushed to work late nights, weekends and have been chastised for needing to leave to pick up my sick child. I have been repeatedly turned down for positions because I could not dedicate myself to 45+ hours (which means minimum of 50 in SE terms). There is the stress to earn enough money to pay basic bills and yet having a reasonable workweek seems to be "rare" in my field. If I had really thought about it, I might have taken some classes and changed careers before I adopted!!!
Michelle - YOu are absolutely right...I am probably too demanding of myself. But its tough when you want to go to the 3PM Christmas party for your child's school and find yourself stuck behind the desk. But your mention of priorities is the key. While its my priority to be a good mom, I also desperately need a job...so, what aspect do I sacrifice?
Posted by: Kelly (guatadopt.com) at June 21, 2006 12:00 AMKelly,
I totally agree with this and am glad you brought this up. I will have to say that our agency's education classes about attachment and books that I engrossed on my own prepared us for our son's fear and confusion when we brought him home. We visited him 3 times during the process and every time we left his foster parents came to pick him up. They showed up to get him of course every time. He remembered this and when we brought him home and he realized his foster parents were not showing up to bring him home, he definitely mourned.
I as well, jumped into baby wearing as to begin the attachment with our son asap. I bought a sling that the foster mother could comfortably and easily wear and asked her to wear him in it if she felt comfortable using it while we waited for him. She loved the sling and when it came time for us to pick him up, she gave me back the sling after 5 months of wearing him in it and when I in turn put it on, he settled right away. It also absorbed the smells of his foster home and family so it was definitely a source for comfort along with his blanket for the first couple of weeks being home with us. Now my husband and I's smell is what comforts him :). He loves to nestle into our pillows on our bed and during his bedtime ritual of us rocking him in the rocking chair, he nestles into my chest.
I wore him everywhere and all through the day. Even during some of his naps. For those of you interested in wearing your child, there are a ton of slings, hammocks, pouches and such. There's a right kind for everyone, even men. My husband eventually put him in the sling or Ergo pack after that "primary caregiver" was established by me.
For those of you that worry about the "primary caregiver" theory, it does work and it does make sense. Your child will not be missing out in the way you think he/she is. My husband was worried about this, but when we thought about it later, if we had given birth to a biological child, there would be one "primary caregiver" for the first months which is usually the mother, especially if she's breastfeeding obviously. My husband and our son (now home for 9 months today) are attaching beautifully and it is wonderful to watch their relationship grow. He always had a couple of hours everyday of 'daddy time' after we got home with him.
I believe that if you listen to your child, you'll know what they need from you.
Thanks Kelly for bringing this up and everyone's comments, it's been great to read them and see different points and advice on this.
Bridgette
Posted by: Bridgette at June 21, 2006 01:16 AMThanks for starting this discussion. One question that I have been struggling with is how to try to do attachment parenting - and have to return to work and therefore the need for daycare. How do you know your child is ready. What can you do to help them get ready - since becoming a SAHM is not a possibility.
Posted by: Stacy at June 21, 2006 01:34 PMI just want to stress how important this is. We brought our son home at 27 months old after a very long adoption process of 20 months, and so we adopted a toddler without setting out to do so. I did read a lot about toddler adoption, but no books were able to teach me what my mistakes have.
Our son seemed to adjust pretty quickly other than some temper tantrums which we still deal with and crying for his foster mother for a while. We were convinced that things were going great, but now that he is almost four he has some behavioral problems that I am certain are due to abandonment issues. I wish that I had hugged more during tantrums, and given him less time outs. He is making great progress and is a great kid, but I do think we could have done better. Everyone around us told us his behavior was normal toddler stuff and as first time parents, we thought maybe they were right and we just got a wild one. Anyway, he is such a joy, and we have done a lot right, but when you're in the middle of tantrums give them lots of hugs, instead of distancing them with a timeout. My 2 cents from experience.
We to waited a long time for our son. We went through the whole Hague time. I even talked with you on the phone Kelly. I was a past IAR client. Lucky us! Well we finally brought our son home on December 24th 2004. It was the greatest blessing. Lots of adjustments for us. Around the same time we also lost our best friend suddenley to a 5 month illiness with cancer. So I was a emotional mess after 2 year wait with this adoption and 14 years of wanting a baby, and then loosing my best friend.
Still yet, my biggest worry was for him to be able to adjust, I was so worried about the trauma that it would cause him being taken away from his foster mom. For us from the moment that they handed our son to my husband he never looked back. We expected that, we thought that we would have sleepless nights with him, and that it would take so much for him to get use to us. Not once, he seemed like he knew us and was suppose to be with us always. He cuddled with us, loved us, right from the start. It amazed us more then I can ever explain to anyone. Because that was not what we thought would happen. We were blessed. It was almost like someone showed him our picture dailey and he knew we would be coming for him one day. We brought him home at 10 months, he is now 2 1/2 and he is a typical 2 1/2 year old. Loves everyone, knows so much, remebers everything. That has also always amazed us. I thank god every day that my son seems to have adjusted so well. According to what I read in your article our situatipn should be the recipe for a attachment disorder child. I pray that he continues to keep adjusting and growing to be the lovable child that he is now and he does not grow up to be what statistics say could happen. We love him very much and he is the center of our lives. We do disipline, he does not get whatever he wants. We try to stay consistent with everything for him. I'm not writing this letter to brag about our transition, or to say we are the perfect parents. There is no such thing. I'm writing to share our great experience and that every child may not have the same outcome of the attachment disorder. As a parent there are no rules, we all do the best we can and hope and pray that when they become a teenager that eveything that was instilled in them will stay with them and guide them when it comes to making there own decsions. Who they are is who they are. We talk about adoption all of the time. My son says he is from mala. Our faith helped us through our long wait of getting Gino and loosing our best friend. It will help us through any other adjustments or hard times that we may have with him. As a parnet there are so many worries for our children these days, what the future holds none of us know what that will bring us.
Thanks for letting me express my experience. I hope many have had the same experiences.
Jamie
I truly appreciated this post. There are certainly many parts of the process that can be discussed at length, but the process is much like a wedding: when it's over, there's still a marriage to cultivate and nurture.
Much like that, in adoption there is much to do after the paperwork is wrapped up. I do not believe that bonding will be immediate, but I am prepared for whatever it takes to make sure that I am there for this child. He needs to understand that, although he was removed from one home and placed with another, his needs will be met - physically and emotionally.
Food for thought, thank you.
Diane
I appreciated reading the posts and have just recently heard about this website. I wondered if anyone could send information about why it takes so long to go from family court to PGN. All my paperwork is completed, and I have been told by adoption agency that I am in a waiting stage. I have been in family court since 3-24-06, maybe this is not a long time but to me it seems as if it is forever. I have visited once and am getting ready to go again for another visit. If you have any information, please post. Thanks.
Posted by: Jan at June 22, 2006 08:51 PMThis is such a great discussion. I had been hoping that it would come up and wished it would have come up 2 years ago when I brought Natalie home. I too waited through the Hague mess in 2003 and Natalie was 10 mo old when she came home. I'm a single mom and wanted it to be 'just baby and me' for a while. What a mistake. I should have had help to help me. I was sure that I could take care of her, but emotionially I needed help (or sleep!). My agency had 3 follow-up social worker visits as routine and I remember, through my sleep deprived state, begging the social worker to give me help/pointers as to what I could do to make this transition easier on Natalie. She was completely un-edcuated or un-prepared to answer them. Natalie just clung to me continuously day and night. She slept with me for a year. Then I slept on a trundle bed in her room for a few months and she decided it was time to sleep in her bed 'all myself' and has been doing it every since. I read so many books on how co-sleeping was bad for everyone involved but it was priceless for us and she decided when it was time to move on. Those books don't necessarily address adoption sleep issues and don't give you too much reassurance that sometimes it's okay to do your own thing. I will always remember my Dad saying that I was the only thing in life Natalie had to hold on to and she was going to do just that! Truer words have never been spoken.
Now over 2 years later, Natalie and I are both doing well but I do feel like I muddled through what was probably something that could have been done better. I was prepared for the routine baby stuff from my friends with bio kids but not the attachment issues. She has bonded well. She fits with me and my family just like it was meant to be. I look at her daily and just know we were meant to be together. I just wish I would have done more research and asked for help at the beginning. I think back now to how greatful I was to my dear friend just coming over every day so I could take a shower and do laundry. I hope that I can be there for someone who is experiencing the same thing in their life.
Thank you Kelly for this wonderful site and this great discussion!
Kelly, what a wonderful post. My daughter grieved the loss of her foster mother very visibly. Although she wasn't yet six months old at homecoming, she was very sad at nights and although she had slept through the night in Guatemala, she was waking a lot at night once she was home. Her sleep continued to get worse (hourly waking) and I think I read or skimmed every sleep book out there (with most of them recommending some kind of crying/behavioral strategy). After all that reading, I concluded that my daughter didn't have a sleep issue, she had a security issue. I went from "accidental" co-sleeping to intentional co-sleeping and it was the perfect solution. For months my daughter slept touching me, sometimes waking and pulling my arms around her. She got happier during the day (and she has always been very happy...this was just happier) and she is very clear that I am Mommy. Fast forward eight months and she is sleeping for increasingly longer periods on her own. Last night she was in her crib, soundly asleep, for seven hours before cooing (not crying!) Mama and having me come get her to sleep until morning. I am so grateful that I had read the attachment literature before I adopted because I credit it with helping me make the right decisions.
I encourage you to run this article every six months or so for new parents and to help remind the rest of us that attachment is key and that sometimes doing what is right for our children can mean going against what nearly all parenting "experts" advise.
Posted by: Susan at June 23, 2006 02:51 PMOkay, I've been reading all of these posts for the last few days and I must say how much I have appreciated all of the input from all of you. My husband and I are adopting twin baby boys (yes, we feel doubly blessed!)...has anyone reading ever experienced different attachment experiences with twins? Also, any advice on the one parent being the sole (or majority) care taker? Should my husband and I each take a child and be the sole provider/care taker for that child (he will be off for a few weeks once we bring the boys home)? Also, I've heard so much about co-sleeping, I'm thinking we need to go by a king size bed. Thanks again for the wonderful information.
Posted by: Donna at June 23, 2006 04:51 PMJan, In our case, we were in family court for 3 weeks, and have been in PGN ever since April 11 with no prevos so far.
Posted by: Tim at June 26, 2006 10:44 AMJust a couple of comments to add:
I do not want to suggest that these methods are the answer to real attachment disorders (which are serious conditions to overcome). Typically, a very young child who has been in a loving foster home prior to his/her adoption is better equiped to attach strongly to their forever family. But while some may thrive as easily without concentrated efforts....others may not. Lets face it, children are not the same.
Attachment parenting is really a method to overcome minor attachment displacement which COULD turn more serious if the baby feels isolated or neglected. The problem is that a baby does not necessarily have confidence that you will be there. This may translate into clinginess, throwing fits, refusing to be held, etc. even years down the road. It can crop up after years when mommy returns to work fulltime and is stressed when she gets home. THAT is why its an ongoing method (while the primary caregiver may not be...but tends to have some roots in the roles you play down the road!)
Cosleeping: Yes, this is a wonderful idea...but having a little girl who "flops" about, I couldn't survive with my daughter in my bed all the time. She still sleeps with me when she is sick or has had a nightmare. Today, we keep her toddler bed in our room....Yes, I would love for her to sleep in her own room. But its on the other side of the house and frankly, more work for me if I need to check on her periodically. Having the crib in your room might be an option for twins or for those who can't function well with a baby in the middle of the bed.
Primary Caretaker: In the case of twins...well, that is a good question. I guess I would ask myself whether both parents are going to be "on call" or if mom or dad is going to be staying home for awhile. Whoever stays home the longest should probably be the primary...while the spouse can certainly be assisting. Also, if both parents work, who will most likely leave to pick up the child when he/she is sick?
Working moms/single moms/single dads: I would make sure that you take some time off even if it is just three weeks. Be firm with your employer way in advance. Chances are they wouldn't expect you to pop back into work if you just gave birth. The financial strain is MINIMAL compared to professional therapy for a child! Frankly, if you can back off to part-time for a while, it will take the stress off of you. Regardless, attachment parenting does not end when you go back to work.
Posted by: Kelly (webmaster) at June 26, 2006 11:05 AMWe adopted twins at age 4 1/2. They both have attachment disorder. They are however on different ends of the spectrum. One is clingy, will go to anyone, and introverted. The other is wild and wants his space and no touching please. They are a joy, each in their own way. I ended up sleeping on the floor in their room each night as they fell asleep for a very long time. I was the primary caregiver for both, but that was exhusting.
Posted by: cynthia at June 29, 2006 07:58 PMI was so glad to read some of these posts. I was adament about staying in Guatemala for a whole week after we got our 9-month old baby girl, because I knew we would need the bonding time away from other well-intentioned family members. As it turned out, my daughter DID bond with me almost immediately, but it took about 4 days before I could leave her in the room with my husband without her screaming bloody murder.
She fell asleep in my arms each night and before each nap, and her crib was right next to our bed in the hotel room. She slept on our bed for naps, but in her crib at night. After returning home, she slept in our bed the first night, but slept in her crib in her room after that (rest assured I would have brought her back to our bed if she had had any problems with sleeping in her crib.) She sleeps all night with no problem.
I am still her favorite person. She is content to be with others, but if I walk in the room, her whole face lights up and she wants me to hold her. Yes, I pick her up whenever she cries. And yes, she is 11 months old and still on a bottle. I have had the 'advice' from family to get her off the bottle, put her on whole milk instead of formula, let her 'cry it out', etc, etc. But she is a happy, well-adjusted baby, and I would not change a thing.
Posted by: Sophia40 at July 5, 2006 09:28 PMCan you link this to PGN?
Posted by: maria at July 9, 2006 10:35 PM