July 06, 2006
What is a PGN "Out?"
We hear reports of "outs" on a regular basis, but we have to be careful in our understanding of what this means. Recently it was posted there were 70 PGN "outs." After communicating with reliable sources in Guatemala, in an attempt to better understand some of the information we receive, I am sorry to report that there is NO evidence that any of these "outs" were approved cases.
Although the "submission and retrieval" department of PGN was scheduled to release 70 cases, of which they took several days to do, none of these cases were approvals. In a simplified understanding of PGN releases, one has to understand there are three types of "outs."
and most cherished, is the approval. When the case file is actually "approved" and signed off on by the director and subsequently released for retrieval. The second type of "out" is the "rejected" file. On cases such as this, PGN issues a negative resolution and states the grounds of rejection. This resolution is added to the file and the file is once again sent to the office of submission - retrieval for pick up by the case attorney. The previo gets corrected and the file is re-submitted for approval. The third and most dreaded type of "out" is the case that is sent for investigation through the Minors Section. So, when one hears through facilitators, agencys, or other sources that PGN is "scheduled" to release "blank" number of cases, please keep in mind that these releases are NOT necessarily approvals. Even a rejected file or a case sent for investigation is considered an "out."
Currently it is estimated there are several hundred cases in the Minors Section in investigation. And, with the lack of adequate staffing to handle these investigations, it is virtually impossible for these cases to be cleared in an acceptable timeframe. It appears that cases are being thrown into investigation for a variety of senseless reasons such as a spelling mistake or a brief uncertainty by the bio mother during an interview. In addition to this, the director of the Minors Section is in VERY good standing with the first lady of Guatemala. Why this backlog has occurred is up for debate, but many will express privately the extreme political agenda war that is being waged by high level government folks.
There are still a lot of "unknowns" in regards to why PGN has created such a backlog at this time. One thing is sure, it was NOT all created by the current director. One can surmise that he must be under tremendous pressure from those above him to simply "stall" out as many cases as possible. There is evidence that many cases rest on his desk that have already been approved and signed off on. Why they are not being released is of question. By trickling out approved cases a few at a time, it can be stated that he is constantly releasing cases. Should ADA press forward with their law suit, he may need this sort of explanation. After promising time and time again to make PGN the best it has ever been, this director has failed miserably. Some in Guatemala believe him to be worse than the past three directors at this point, which speaks volumes.
Posted by Troy at July 6, 2006 01:58 PM
My husband and I are still waiting to get into PGN and we are super nervous when we read stuff like this. What have others been experiencing as far at PGN time limits? Maybe we are worrying for no reason. Any help and advise would be greatly appreciated! Thanks
Those that are effected by the minors, I assume this is when the birth mother is less than 18, if she is older than 18 this should not be an issue? Is that correct?
Does anybody know how many cases get rejected the first time on an average? Is it 1 out of four, three out of four? I know there is not a science behind it but do we know an average?
Those that are effected by the minors, I assume this is when the birth mother is less than 18, if she is older than 18 this should not be an issue? Is that correct?
Does anybody know how many cases get rejected the first time on an average? Is it 1 out of four, three out of four? I know there is not a science behind it but do we know an average?
We have been in PGN since February 20 and have received 4 previos. It is very frustrating and has taken much longer than we ever thought it would. Has anyone else received this many previos?
I hate to tell you this-but we have been in PGN now for 5 months and we are extremly worried! I can't think of anything else but getting our little girl home with us.We had the impression that we would get her as soon as4to6 months of age when our adoption started,she is now 10 months and looks like we will be lucky to have her by 1 year, but we dought it.All this is just so heart-breaking and depressing that we
sometimes wonder if we should of even started this.I pray for all those babies who are waiting in the hands of the PGN that they as well as ours will be released very soon.I wish you the best of luck, and hopefully things will get better before you enter PGN. Thanks,
Yep! You are right. I was one of those "70 outs" and it was a rejection.We sat on the directors desk "rejected" for weeks before he let us out. Sent to rectification for a date typo. Two of my friends were just released appoved this week. That is good news.
We have a birthmother who is a minor. We entered PGN on 3.20.06 and moved to the court of minors, waited over 2 months for a birthmother interview, and now wait for the write up of the interview. Then we go back to have our case reviewed and then wait for the precious signature with the coveted "out" giving us approval to pick up our precious baby girl. Anyone know if we are considered to be in PGN this entire time? If yes, we have been in for 3 1/2 months. Our baby is 10 months and we don't expect her home before her first birthday in September.
Maybe the backlog is happening in part b/c the gur keeps going on vacation! Bolivia a few weeks ago and now at the World Cup?! Pretty cushy schedule I'd say.
We've been in for 5 +/- weeks now and knowing that he is not even there to sign anything whether a previo or an approval makes me, well, you can imagine.
SOMEONE HAS to do something about all this... We too are about to enter PGN on Monday and I am scared to death... After being held up in the embassy for one month over 1 piece of paper... Doesn't the guatemalan government and PGN director know they are only hurting the children of their country... What will they do if we don't adopt them... the children will grow up on the streets.. if they survive..
Plus us adopting helps their economy and their tourism... Its more people coming there and visiting their country spending money in their country.. the government is only hurting itself AND THE POOR CHILREN!!!!!!
we just found out today we are officially out of PGN and yes it is the real one. we went in on April 18th and officially are out on July 6th. i just wanted to give everyone hope that on some turtle level PGN is moving. all i can say is the power of prayer has been huge. hope this helps
our daughter will be 7 months old when we bring her home. i have never posted but have used this sight often for hope. thanks susana, kevin, and kelly for all your time and effort to bring our children home
We were in PGN a grand total of about 13 weeks, finally out on 4/26. We have been waiting for 5 weeks now for a new birth certificate, and were told last night that there was a previo put on that. I hope everyone is out of PGN soon, but let's hope you don't have to deal with this kind of delay over a birth certificate. They issued one once already, so all they need to do is change his last name. We were told 5 weeks ago that we could go in 3weeks max to get him...I hope they get this thing soon. I guess nobody over there cares if these babies leave for a better home or not...Now we are held hostage by a registrar who doesn't want to sign a piece of paper. Anyone else out there had this issue??
While it is not the best news I am at the point where any news helps. I do have one question - is there any way for us to find out exactly where our files are? I went into PGN on April 17th, kicked out on May 29th, resubmitted June 14th. My lawyer doesn't seem to know where my file is. It is one thing to be stuck in PGN but surely they can tell us where in PGN.
A couple notes:
In regards to investigated cases, there is no age limit as far as the bio mother is concerned. If I had to guess, I would say that any case that involves a minor bio mother would most certainly be sent for investigation. This has NOT always been the "norm," but considering the current state of PGN, one should expect cases as such to be sent for investigation. From my understanding, anytime a bio mother is/has been interviewed, there is likely an investigation.
Most people state they have been "IN" PGN since such and such date. However, this is a little confusing because a previo or investigated situation would be taken care of "OUT" of PGN. It would be more accurate to say that the case has been "in and out" of PGN since such and such date.
Also of importance is to know that the department of submission - retrieval does NOT notify the case attorney that the case is indeed there. It is up to the attorney to check on the status of the case. Most, I would assume, have "runners" that handle this.
Unless I am mistaken, an attorney should be able to find out exactly where his/her case is resting.
Please keep up the "good fight" for these children!! As much as we have all been discouraged and broken-hearted, there is a little innocent child caught in the middle of a very complex situation. Although we have great folks "in our corner," it is the persistence of adoptive families that will ultimately prevail here.
Well, i just wanted to share with you that today we emailed our agency asking about how our case is doing at PGN. We have been there for seven weeks and heard nothing from our agency. TOday we got an email from them saying that yesterday we were kicked out from PGN because they needed a medical report of our baby. Our agency said that they never have asked for this before. Being a Guatemalan lady, i just feel very frustrated and angry with our system in Guatemala and wish i can do something to help.
I don't think I am being informed by my agency when there's a previo, or being kicked out. It would be great to hear ANYTHING @ least we'll know where we stand,. After a previo, I hear, there's a 2 wk time frame before the case actually starts rolling again after it's re-entered.
I am vey concerned that my USCIS papers will expire before pick up ,from what I am reading here. I have been in PGN for over 4 mos.
This is my first time responding to this website. I read sooo much good information here, but I get a bit worried of that old saying you cannot believe everything you read. I have been in PGN since April 11th with no word at all about our case. No word!! Our agency is awesome and the lawyers there are great and I have no worries that I am being cheated. I guess I am with everyone here on "why" we cannot get info on our cases at least on a few week basis. Our little girl is going to be 8 months old soon and I highly doubt we will be getting her before she turns a year. I pray everyday to get her home and I pray everyday for all the other "waiting" families. I will be going on my first "visit" trip at the end of July and get to spend 4 days with my daughter. I hope to be able to get some info on my case while I am there, but I know not to get my hopes up. Does anyone have any good advice for me I might need when I get to Guatemala? Thanks for listening.
Since most of news we've heard recently has been "not much" news to "bad" news... I thought I would share some "good" news.
I visit this site every day - most days I visit several times a day, looking for any and all news. In addition, I regularly visit another site on yahoo.
Tonight, on the yahoo site, four cases have been released with final approvals as of this afternoon. Those four, added to the one listed above are five for tonight!! That's a lot better than we've been seeing!!
Pray that the "approved" releases continue, and these babies come home.
Prayers to everyone waiting on PGN,
Hi I never post here but I have to tell you I had 4 previos last one on may 17 we were in pgn since Jan 21 and WE ARE OUT meanning out out approved by the director and I know of at least 2 more
keep the faith it will happen
Our paperwork was re-submitted to the PGN on Nov 28, 2005, after getting the pre-approval from the US Embassy. PGN asked to interview the birth mother (not a minor) in mid-January and then again, about a month later. In April, 2006, our lawyer was finally told (by some contact at the PGN) that the reason for "investigation" status was that PGN believed the birth mother was coerced into giving up the baby, something the lawyer has said is definitely not true. He was given the case number of the claim of coercion &, when he checked the public records, found that it's not our baby's mother or our baby girl. He tried to clear up the misunderstanding with PGN but PGN then informed him that the file had been sent to the courts for review. The lawyer has been able to meet with the judge to summarize the case, showing that all the correct procedures have been followed. Judge has asked PGN for a write-up, explaining why case is before the Court, but the PGN has not responded for 3 months now. We still do not have a court date, where all parties would appear before the judge. We continue to wait & to pray. Reading entries on this website has been really helpful; thanks Kelly!
I had contacted Adoption Supervisors 2 weeks ago and they felt that after 10 weeks in PGN and 1 kick out that I was in the "normal" timeframe and that I should wait a few more weeks and that they didn't think I needed to hire them just yet. I was impressed that they didn't try to sell me their service regardless of where I was in PGN. However, I was wondering if the information they provided you told you exactly where your case was in PGN. I have this need to know whether my case is still with the reviewer or sitting on the directors desk or "elsewhere". Is that the type of information they can provide? My case was resubmitted 3 weeks ago. My lawyer keeps saying that she has not been given any indication of where in PGN her cases are. Does that mean she is not asking and just waiting for them to contact her? Or is she calling them and they are telling her nothing? I am sorry, I am so frustrated and sad and I am looking for any information that can help. Thanks, Michele
My heart goes out to all of you who are waiting in the PGN nightmare. I too was caught in a very long delay during 04/05 with the Hague mess & PGN with two kick "outs." I finally brought my son home when he was 13 months old. I was able to visit several times. He has done tremendously well and is such a joy to our family. After I got him home I didn't have time to focus on the loss of his first year. I so enjoyed the present. Hang in there, you will get your child.
How to find out where your file is at? We emailed this address: AdoptGuatemala@state.gov (US Embassy - Guatemala) and were informed that our case was in the DHS's(Dept of Homeland Security) hands. They gave me that email address of them it is: Guatemala.Adoptions@dhs.gov
We have been in PGN now since June 13th. I am hoping that I receive an email back from Dept of Homeland Security to update us more.
My husband and I just met with our agency for the first time yesterday. They strongly recommended Gautemala for us. We are in the very beginning of this process. Any advice?
If you email me at firstname.lastname@example.org I'll be happy to help you prepare for your trip since I've been there three times in the last 5 months I have the packing down to a science. If all goes well I'll be there the last week of July bringing my baby home.
We were apparently sent to Investigations recently on an abandonment case! Go figure. We originally went into PGN on 26 April, previo in late May, back in on 8 June. Still waiting to hear why and when we were sent to Investigations. We're looking into Adoption Supervisors.
For those of you who are using Adoption Supervisors... Have you told your agencies that you are using them? They are so helpful and are great at communicating with us. I just don't want to offend our agency. Any thoughts?
We are using Adoption Supervisors and they are tell us exactly where our case is at all times. It is nice to have accurate information that our agency does not provide.
Just wanted to say that I know that for us even a "released case' with a previo is better than the file being held hostage in PGN. We knew through Adoption Supervisor's that our case had 2 previos and was sitting on the director's desk for 2 weeks before it was finally released. Getting it out so the previos could be corrected and re-submitted meant everythinig to us at the time and we were thankful that we knew (and know now)exactly where our case is sitting, with a good review by the reviwer and pending it's way to the director's desk. We, too, expected bringing a 7 month old baby home, who will be 10 months on the 15th. Given this director's recent behavior we feel that we will be lucky to have her home by her 1st birthday. Anyway, at least we know what the hold-up is.
Hoping that we all get out with the real deal soon!
I asked my coordinator why other people seemed to know if there cases were on the director's desk or elsewhere in PGN and why we couldn't find out the same info on our case. She told me that some attorneys pay the reviewers money for info but our attorneys do not do that. Maybe your attorney will not pay for info either. Just an idea.
We have one case with two non-biological brothers. The oldest turned 4 in March and the baby turned one just one week ago. We have been in and out of PGN since Dec. 05 and where last back in May 26. I believe each kick out (2) has had to do with the oldest so I think we would have had the baby by now if they were separate cases. The good news is that they are together in a very loving foster home. While I would love to have either of them here I am grateful they are together and are bonding. The oldest may not understand if we took the baby and not him too so I believe it is for the best their cases were put together as one.
We have not seen them since Nov. 05 but we are going for our second visit in 8 days and I cannot wait to see them again!
You are all in my prayers,
As far as offending your agency... as I understand things, it's not the agency that gets offended, it's your ATTORNEY.
As it's been explained to me, when Adoption Supervisors goes in to inquire on cases with PGN, it is assumed or viewed that the attorney has not done his/her job efficiently. Ideally, once you have been submitted to PGN, your agency is pretty much out of the loop - leaving the agency only to serve as the middle guy communicating between your attorney and you.
Of course, not all of our cases are "ideal" cases. The standard practice is that your attorney's office has already examined your case file prior to submitting you to PGN to eliminate any problems. Cases are regularly submitted purposely missing vital documents (ie: pre-visa approvals). The idea behind this is that by the time your file gets to the examiner, the attorney already has your PA ready to submit when your get kicked out, and at the point of the kick out hopefully they would have uncovered any other problems with the case, thus giving the attorney a heads up chance to get "all" corrected - the file resubmitted - then approved a bit faster than having an additional two, three or four more kick outs.
Adoption Supervisors seem to be honest about telling families when they are falling in to the "norm", and saving them some money. I think too many families are jumping the gun, and not understanding the timeline of the "norm".
My case is still in the "norm" (submitted to PGN 04/07/06 - kicked out 05/03/06 - resubmitted 06/08/06 - waiting), but... if my case had been delayed as long as some of these families with no word since Nov '05 from PGN or attorney... the last thing I would be worried about would be offending my attorney, agency or PGN.
I'm glad to hear that you are happy with your agency. I, too, have been satisfied with my agency's role in our adoption. Maybe you should consider asking your agency what they think about families using Adoption Supervisors. I spoke with my agency, and she was very open to the idea, but didn't feel like I had been in PGN long enough, yet. From what I've read, AS would have told me the same thing. She also agreed that it's the attorney that gets offended.
I hope I've helped you.
My prayers are with you,
Personally, I would not back away from Guatemala adoption. Even with the problems in PGN right now, there are still plenty of advantages in a Guatemala adoption vs. adoptions from other countries - if the advantages fit your particular family needs and desires. For example: (1)The referral time is one of the shortest compared to almost all the other countries. (2)With the referral, you know who your child is, what they look like, what age they are, you can follow them during the completion of your adoption through photos, videos and medical reports. (3) The majority of the children are in foster homes vs. orphanages, therefore providing them with more personal/individual love and care (4)You can visit your child as many times as you like during your wait. During these visits, your child can stay with you to begin building your relationship. (5)The required in country stay time is far less than most other countries. (6) Even with the delays in PGN right now... the total amount of time from the dossier being submitted to Guatemala to the day you bring your baby home, is still shorter than most other countries.
Reading these sites can be very helpful, and I suggest doing so - but... be very careful about getting hung up in the negative comments. This is a very stressful time, and a lot of people are using these sites to vent. Venting to other adopting families is the most helpful, but newcomers can be mislead.
If I can help you with any other questions, please feel free to submit another comment, and I'll see it. I'm on this site at least twice a day!
Prayers be with you as you make a very important, and life changing decision.
Can you please tell me what information we need to send when we email the Embassy in Guatemala to find out where our case is at
As thrilled parents of an 11 month old daughter from Guatemala, we care deeply about the adoption process. We've been saddened to read the frustrations and terrible dissapointments that so many are going through right now. But we can tell you that it is 100% worth all the ups and downs!
It seems that things have slowed down a lot in the last few months. We brought our daughter home in mid-February, 2006 when she was 6.5 months. Our case went through PGN in about 4 weeks. Our big delay was a 6 week wait for a new birth certificate from our daughter's hometown so we could go to the embassy for pink slip. The local registrar sat on it for a long time.
We will keep all of those waiting in our thoughts and prayers and hope that those starting on the adoption journey who are currently considering Guatemala won't write this country off as an option. These great kids really need good homes.
We e-mailed our agency on the 3rd after getting our son's picture to see if there was any new news. Apparently we had been out of PGN for a full week and the attorney was waiting for the passport and final deed. So he now has our last name and we will find out on Monday when we pick him up. Our agency estimates Monday the 17th. We are extremely excited but wonder why we weren't told sooner.
Good luck to all!!
Adoption Supervisors seem to be up front, honest, etc. So, I hate to ask this...but is it possible that some of the fee you pay to AS goes to a reviewer at PGN, giving them access to the case? I would be tempted to use use them, but something in the back of my mind wonders if I wouldn't be contributing to and perpetuating the corrupt access to information (which may not be "corrupt" in the PGN culture, just a way of doing business). Who knows, but I wouldn't be surprised to learn that organized crime has infiltrated just about every department of the government. I want my case to be handled appropraitely, but I don't want any portion of my money to end up in the pockets of a PGN reviewer. This is probably unknowable info, and I'll just have to get comfortable with AS's miraculous outcomes??
For those who hire Adoption Supervisors, how do you actually know the information they give you is accurate? What proof do you have that they actually know where your case is? Just a question. I agree that money is very often handed over, either for information or to get a file moving. Not the most ethical practices, which I believe then slows down the cases of those in Guatemala committed to ethical adoptions. Frustrating, to say the least for those of us who know we are working with people who don't pay those "extras".
Has anyone used European Adoption Consultants or
Commonwealth Adoptions International for a Guatemala adoption?
Could someone tell me if it is a bad time to start the adoption process for Guatemala?
Congratulations!!! "Why not earlier???" is a very good question which you may not remember when you have your little person in your arms. Enjoy your trip!
We have used Commonwealth Adoptions International. Our experience with them has been wonderful. From the first phone call, they have been very up front, and honest with us. They have been very good about preparing us for the processes we've faced, and have stood true to everything they represented themselves to be.
If you need to know more specifics, you may contact me at email@example.com - I'll be glad to discuss our experience.
As far as starting an adoption in Guatemala... some of my thoughts are listed in a comment listed above on July 7th addressed to Cindy, from me, where she asked the same question. After you read the comments I submitted, email me and I'll give you more reasons for starting NOW!
Looking forward to talking to you,
We too are using Commonwealth Adoptions and have been happy so far. We are going to meet our baby on Thurs 7/13 and have been in PGN for about 2 weeks! If you would like to email me my address is firstname.lastname@example.org
This is the absolute best website and I'm sure everyone reading appreciates it as much as I do.
Has there been any word on the ADA meeting with the PGN Director? Is it true that the Guatemala President's wife is so against adoptions that she has a lot to do with all these delays? If she has such influence on this Director, can't he be replaced? These poor, poor children. What do they think is going to happen to them if people aren't able to adopt them? They will starve and they will die. How can this country allow this to happen? Each and every one of us need to continue to email, write and call your Senators, Congressmen / women, hell...even the President.
Appreciate any updates on the PGN Status.
What is Susan Luarca's (and ADA's)official position on "Paying reviewers at PGN for status updates and/or for moving files forward?" What, if anything, is ADA's strategy with regard to this particular issue - i.e. what is ADA doing to stop this practice? It might help us all to know if ADA has more than a one-pronged attack on the overall goal of creating an effective and ethical adoption system. Just curious...the U.S. State Department's website indicates a high level of administrative corruption in Guatemala and advises us to use caution when adopting from G. Many people would like to know if someone from within the country of G. is working on this part of the problem in more than a generalized way, I think.
We are also using Commonwealth Adoptions Intl. and so far, we have had a positive experience with them.
HOW SCARY.....We are very close to sending our paperwork to guatemala and now that all of this is happening, I am terrified. Like one of the other's said when you are a working family, the thaught of not getting all done with in the 1 year time frame is scary...
Please keep us in your Prayers
I am so scared!!! My husband, Brent, and I just accepted referral of our son Elijah (whom we got to name because the birth mother did not). He was born June 19th and our dossier is not even complete. On Wednesday this week we send everything out for certification and the authentimcation and then off to Guatemala. Does anyone know how long certification and authentication in the state of Florida takes? I am so afraid that we won't meet Elijah until he is 12 months old. The more I read from others the more scared I get. If I would have known how long everything takes I probably would have told the agency to not even offer us a referral until a certain point in our process. Once I saw the picture of our son I knew it was our son. I couldn't leave anyone else in the world to take care of him and nobody could love him as much as his father and I do. Everyday is sad, hard, lonely, and scary for both of us. Every morning we go into the nursery and look at his pictures and talk to him and pray with him. Someone tell us a good story. From our paperwork going to certification starting on Wed of this week are we looking at 6 months to a year before we bring Elijah home?
Missing our son,
You are so lucky to be bringing your daughter home so soon. Please contact me at email@example.com. I would like to know how you got in and out so quickly and what agency you are using
Just wanted to let all of you know that i just returned from our visit trip with out little guy and there were approximately 15-20 families on the flight home with adopted children! At fist i thought this was normal, until i spoke with a family retuning with their 2nd child, and she said that this is her 4th trip to and from Guatemala and she has never seen so many children! Could this be a good sign for PGN and approvals?
To the lady writting about the length of the adoption process,I really wish agencies would tell every adoptive parent that they would probably get their child in 1 year to 13 months.That is what I have been noticing.We were told we would have our little one about 4-6 months of age,well she is now 10 months.We have been in PGN for 5 months alone.I hope things really change soon for all the babies sake.Good luck!!! Alley
As far as the certification, I can't give you any information on the timeframe for that, since I had to use the Georgia Secretary of State, but my authentications were handled in the Florida Guatemalan Consulant, and the lady there processed my forms, and returned them in ONE DAY! The turnaround was great! That opened a Consulant office in Atlanta, toward the completion of our dossier, but Florida processed 98% of our forms, and everytime, she processed them in one day.
If you are already almost ready to forward your dossier, it shouldn't be long before you at least make a visit to meet your son. All you have to have to visit is good DNA match. As soon as we had the DNA match, we visited our daughter.
You've got to find something to do with your energy, to keep you from getting so down. Using the website to communicate with other families adopting from Guatemala is a wonderful step. Use other families that feel these same emotions, and you will make it!!! He'll be home before you know it!!
On a bighter side... most of the hold up we are experiencing now, is related to the election of the PGN Director, his staff being set in place, etc. etc. All of this caused a backlog, and rediculus delays, but... things are looking better. Your case still has a little while to get through a couple of other steps before you get in to PGN, so maybe by the time you make it in to PGN, the timeframe will be back to the 4-6 week norm.
Good luck, and pray for patience!! It's the most used prayer of mine!!!
Peace is not the absence of struggle... But the presence of GOD!
Praying for you and your family,
I DO think that the amount of babies coming home on your plane was unusual, and VERY GOOD NEWS!!!
When we visited in May, PGN had begun processing, but very, very slow. On our plane, there were only three babies, and the plane was FULL to Atlanta. At that point, everyone was just glad to see SOME movement in PGN.
Compared to your experience, that was nothing!!
Pray that this week brings us more PGN Final OUTS!!
Thanks for the good news,
In your agency's defense, prior to the problems with PGN - which started approximately in Feb'06, the normal time frame for bringing a little boy home, was truely 4-6 months. I don't think there was any way for them to predict such a problem as this. At that point, 6 months would have been the worse case.
If you have been in PGN for five (5) months now, then your got caught up in the most detrimental time frame. From February until April, there were hardly any cases coming out with approvals. The better news is that I read on another website that the PGN office has a chart posted where they are attempting to set priority on cases submitted prior to June 1st.
Have you received any communication from your agency on why your attorney feels like your case has not been completed? Have you had any kickouts, or investigations to cause a delay?
I pray for you to get good news very soon,
We currently use Adoption Supervisors. We have been trying to adoption from Guatemala since our first referral in Dec 2004. Our second referral is the little girl we are trying to bring home. We have known about her since early June 2005. She is now 13 months old. We have been using Adoption Supervisors since Sept 2005.
I just want to say that Adoption Supervisors is an amazing group of people. The are definately upstanding. I would not question whether they are ethical or not. They certainly have a heart for the children of Guatemala and for the families who are struggling to bring them home. I cannot say enough about them. God has blessed us with them.
Jennifer Van Wieren
We were led to believe too that our baby would be 4-6 months of age when we brought him home. Our baby is almost 4 months old, and we are not in PGN yet. Everything I read makes me so scared. I don't trust that our agency was up front with us. I'm not sure I would of chose Guatemala
had I been more informed. I was led to believe Guatemala was a very stable and strong program. It looks like a mess to me.
It will be very difficult to hang in there as the months go by. I'm not sure I would recommend this program.
This message is for Cheri F. You stated that on another website you read that there is a chart posted in PGN to set priority cases. Can you please tell me what website so that I can look this up? This is the best website ever. This is the only place to get any information.
Gina (and anyone else interested)
We went through EAC (European Adoption Consultants) and while overall I would give them a "B", there were bumps along the way.
We went through 4 different people handling our case so contiuity was an issue. In addition, we weren't from Ohio so some pretty simple issues we ran into were "new" to them. My biggest pet peeve was that the American staffers who travelled with us in country didn't speak Spanish! Seriously, my limited abilities outstripped theirs.
Luckily their Guatemalan staff (whom they should rely on to do a lot more than driving and translating in my opinion) were great.
We ultimately picked EAC on the recommendation of a colleague who used them to adopt from Kazakhstan. Not exactly comparing apples to apples in retrospect--and no matter what they say, EAC still specializing in Russian adoptions.
But we are lucky to have brought our Ana home at 6.5 months, so they definitely did something right. We sailed through PGN (and I feel for those who didn't--I sweated every day of it). EAC are sticklers for a clean dossier and no issues with documents and that's ultimately crucial. When the re-issued birth certificate bogged down, tho, they were pretty useless until we threatened to call the lawyer ourselves to get to the bottom of even knowing what the issue was.
Best of luck to all. My husband and I have you all in our thoughts.
I too would like to know the website that you read that there is a chart posted in PGN to set priority cases prior or June 1. Does this include cases submitted prior to 6/1 WITH previos after 6/1?
I would like to check out the website.
We went through European Adoption Consultants and I would never recommend anyone else. We had a wonderful experience with them and they have a strong Guatemala program. Every member of their staff that I came into contact with was extremely patient, sympathetic, helpful & understanding throughout the entire process. They were also very open and honest with us about what they could and could not control each step of the way. They basically held our hands through the entire thing and I felt very confident that they knew exactly what they were doing. They are very thorough about going through your dossier to check for any errors before they wire it to Guatemala because they explain to you how even a spelling error can create a delay with PGN, unfortunately. They have several specific attorneys in Guatemala that they use due to their excellent records and length of experience. They also told us that the money you pay to the attorney gets held in escrow by the agency and the attorney does not see any of it until the adoption is finalized. I liked that a lot because it sure gives the attorney incentive to stay on top of everything and push it through to completion. While they can't control the amount of time that your case stays in family court or PGN, the attorneys can make sure that completed documents are picked up from one office and transferred to another in a timely manner (for example, I have heard from several people that discovered later that they had been approved in family court and their files were sitting there for three weeks or more before being picked up by their attorney). There is always someone from the EAC office in Guatemala to be there for you during visits and homecoming trips. They also have several people on staff that live in Guatemala and assist with translating and trips to the grocery store, market, trips to Antigua or anywhere you want to go during your stay. The agency has a courtesy suite at the hotel that they keep 365 days a year and every person adopting through them receives a key to the room when they check into the hotel. The room is open to you 24 hours a day and is stocked with movies, snacks, drinks, rocking chairs, etc along with everything for the babies such as diapers, formula, wipes, carriers, etc. It was absolutely incredible and I can't tell you how wonderful it was to be able to concentrate on nothing but spending time with our daughter while the EAC staff took care of everything else for us. We spent several nights in the courtesy suite just talking with other adoptive parents and admiring all of the beautiful babies. Then, in addition transporting you around town for whatever you need or want, their staff also escorts you to your embassy appointment. We were in and out in minutes because they knew exactly which lines we had to be in and in what order...again, I can't say enough about how easy they made everything.
We just attended their annual reunion picnic at the end of May and spoke to several people that work in the Guatemala program. They said that with the exception of the PGN slowdown, the program is running just as strong as ever. I will stop rambling now, but if you would like more information about our experience, please feel free to email me at firstname.lastname@example.org
My heart aches for all of you that are waiting for news and I will continue to pray for everyone. Hopefully, things will begin to move quicker soon and all of the children will be at home where they belong...best wishes!!
I just received word from our adoption agency that we entered PGN on July 7. We are adopting a 7 year old girl. I am, obviously, interested to see if cases with older children get through PGN more quickly. I went to Guatemala to visit our daughter in April, and there were three families on the return flight bringing children home. Two of them were older children.
Our prayers for all the waiting families, and their waiting children.
If you go to Yahoo.com and use the search engine and type in Guatemala Adoption Forums it will bring up the search finds. On my computer, it is the first find, but may be different on your computer. Look for Guatemala Adoption Message Board - Familiy Forums.
I love this site, but I regularly check the Family Forum site, as well. It doesn't have the articles like Guadadopt, but it is filled with adopting parents and professionals messages and updates.
The message about the chart was posted by a member that was coming out of PGN at the end of last week (Thursday or Friday), and her attorney made the statement about the chart.
I hope this helps you.
After sending you the information on the Family Forum, I realized how difficult it may be for you to find the "exact" posting.
If you go to the bottom, and click on page 9, look for the message titled "PGN Flow Chart...new" posted by shayadam on 07/06/06.
You may also want to read one on page 6, titled "More PGN News" posted by staceyinal on 07/08/06.
A lot of posting happens after 6:00 pm on week nights. Just scan through, and look for things of interest to you.
Cheri, Where did you read that the PGN has a chart posted for prioritizing cases prior to June 1st? Hope this is true...we went in 5/26, with one previo the week of 6/26, back in 7/5. Good luck to all in this mess...
i really don't believe anyone can give you an accurate timeline on how long before you bring your son home. however i would highly recommend visiting your son asap and not waiting until your pickup. we live in florida so it was only 2 1/2 hours out of miami to g. city. i wouldn't trade those 3 days with our daughter for anything. we will be picking her up soon. hope this helps.
My husband and I have been in PGN since 4-7-06, the waiting is truly unbearable sometimes, as we wait to bring our little girl home. This site has helped so much. Thank you to all the couples/families that add "real" information regarding approval outs in PGN, and just the group support. I fear any changes with the current director or staff as it will cause us all further delays. We happen to be unfortunate to be in the mist of this turmoil, but I can't possiblily think any other way but positive any longer.... happy thoughts and prayers to all waiting families.
We finally got our call tonight - we are out of PGN and waiting for our travel date. We have been in PGN since December 2005 so hang in there everyone - God bless!!
Hi Gina, We used Commonwealth Adoptions, and had a good experience with them. Our son was referred in 6/2005 and he came home 10/2005. I would make sure to read about all of the US Hague signing issues before starting an adoption right now! Just my two cents though!
Thank you so much for the information regarding some of the cases taking precedence in PGN. I really appreciate it.
I can tell you I have been in Pgn since 3/24 with one KO and have been back in for 5 wks going on 6 so if there is a list I would love to know why our names are not on it! the papers sit and our little guy gets bigger everyday I talked with the AS they want $3500 do I pay that? Or visit my guy 2 times. This is a hard decision. This whole thing besides my lttile guy! Whom I love! Is turning out to a big mess.
Gina & Monica,
I used EAC, and I would recommend ANYBODY else for a Guatemalan adoption. We used them to adopt our child from Russia and had a great experience with them, but the adoption of our baby from Guatemala echos Gina's experience. The program fee may go into an escrow account but is still due in total when you accept a referral and the check must be made payble to "Latin American Adoption Services" or "LAAS" and NOT payable to EAC, therefore it is NOT refundable through EAC. Sneaky, huh?
Gina, do you know why none of the EAC staff that escorts clients to Guatemala speak Spanish? Because EAC sends Margaret Cole's family members! IMHO, nepotism has taken over at EAC to the point where it has priority over qualifications when hiring and job assignment decisions are made.
PGN Flow Chart? I have been trying to stay off of the internet but to no avail. I am constantly looking for any information that will give me hope! It is very hard to read the articles that have bad news such as the Guatemalan Perspective..Cont'd. I know I have to take the bad with the good. Then I read a few submissions about the new PGN flowchart and I wonder if I qualified or if I am going to get another out. All of this is so hard on all of us. How is it that one attorney/agency can obtain this information and yet my agency/attorney tells me that they don't have any information and to have patience and tolerance? I know how I feel right now and I also know there are others who have been in PGN far longer. I also read on the Yahoo forum that S. Lucara had sent an email to one of the moderators of the forum advising that charges were being filed againt the PGN director last week or this week. Surely that is going to cause more delays.? Sorry, in one of my "more" frustrated moods today.
In PGN 04/17 - k/o May 29th - resubmitted June 14th. Waiting..
I just received word that my attorney has obtained birth certificate & passport and she hopes we get pink slip on Thursday or Friday. If that is the case then hopefully we will be traveling to pick her up next week sometime. It seems like they are slowing starting to trickle out of PGN as approvals.
It would only seem fair that we get out of PGN before they start working on other cases that came in much later than ours. All I can say is good thing they make sleeping aids otherwise I would be walking around like a zombie! My agency is calling me every wk just to keep us afloat good news bad news or no news it is still good to talk to people who understand our frustration! Just let me out of PGN................
My husband and I were informed yesterday that our case was submitted sometime in May and outed and now resubmitted to PGN on June 15th.We also continually have no responce to our questions asked of our agency,we have only received 6 pictures of our son since his birth July of 2005.Today after 4 years of dealing with our agency we refered over to the assistant director,in 4 years this is the very first time we have ever heard of the woman,I asked why our case was outed and she said she knew nothing of this should we be worried?
Submitted to PGN 3/2
Approved Out of PGN: 7/10
Travel: week of 7/17
That is such wonderful news. I am so excited for you and your family.
What was your timeframe in PGN?
Did you have any kick outs?
I read your e-mail today and I can tell that you are having a really hard time right now. This is one of my first times on this website. I too am adopting from Guatemala. My dossier has been over there for a month but I haven't heard anything yet. I am still waiting...and trying to be patient but I know it is so hard. E-mail me if you want to talk. I know of a lot of success stories and I think I can make you feel better. My e-mail is email@example.com. Rebecca
I hoped what was being said about the PGN priority chart was true and maybe it is because we just got approved! We have been in and out since Dec. 05 with 2 previos. We are going for an previously planned visit this weekend and I think it will be good to get reacquainted with our boys. Gil just turned 1 on July 2 and Marvin is 4 years old. We were told to expect about 4-6 weeks to pick them up.
On another site they were saying that Adoptions Supervisors confirmed that PGN was working on getting the oldest cases out. That is all of the info I know.
You are all in my prayers.
Hello. I wanted to say that I have been struggling with my adoption for almost 10 months...unable to obtain DNA. I was referred to Adoption Supervisors, and I must say after reading all the comments on this site I feel better about my decision to hire them.
I agree that I would never recommend my agency. Once I accepted my referral and paid all monies, I no longer heard a word from the agency except in Dec to state I was in PGN which was supposed to take 8 weeks. The next time I heard anything was in June to state that I recvd a previo and won't receive my child until they are 1. Of course I was devastated. I have contacted my agency hundreds of time and they can't or won't tell me anything regarding my case. I am told by adoption supervisors and several other people that my case should have gotten thru PGN prior to this PGN mess if my agency /lawyer had been on top of my case. This has been nothing but a nightmare. I have proceeded to seek legal assistance in this matter. Good luck to all of you.
Just an FYI. We have contacted the US Embassy regarding the slow down in PGN. They are currently trying to get an appointment with the attorney general to discuss what the problem is and to get them to confirm to a timeline as to when PGN will move along as normal.
Thank you for your kind words. Yes, I am more frustrated than usual these days. The problem is I am going through my adoption alone. I have friends and a support group for when I bring Hayden home but I have been keeping everything to myself in regards to going through the process because they don't understand how difficult this is. My friends are all behind me and will be there for me but they just can't help me right now. I guess I don't want anyone to think I can't handle the pressure because sometimes people can be so judgemental about someone's ability to be a parent, nevermind a single parent. I was meant to be a mother and I will continue to push forward and try to think positively. But it is amazing what stress can do. I ended up in hospital on Sunday because I passed out!!! I have never passed out in my life and felt fine right up until I took a dive! Now I have to take a stress test! Uh, hello....I am under PGN stress!! Ha, ha. My email address is firstname.lastname@example.org. I must say I do feel more positive today as I can see cases coming out of PGN albeit slowly. Better than none at all.
Into PGN 3/30/06
Out of PGN 6/28/06 w/1 previo
Pink Slip 7/13/06
Embassy Appt 7/19/06
Good Luck to All
I just got news this week that our case is in investigations!! I am soooo upset. We have been in PGN since 4/11/06 and I was told by my agency that it is because our little girl was born in Barberena, and the woman who signed her birth cert was not qualified to do so. I have no idea if this will get fixed or if this will just sit there!! I feel so lost. Then my agency tells me that this puts us into a small chance of losing her all together!!!
Our lawyer says it should get fixed but I am so worried that it will not and we will go into what they call tribune? Has anyone ever gone into investigations yet?? If so did anyone's case ever go back in and be okay? Just thought I would ask.
Kerrie, Please help me!!! You stated that you could emailed email@example.com. Could they tell you where your case was? I'm not in PGN yet. I'm still waiting for a social worker report to be issued since June 1. Will they be able to tell me what's taking so long? What information do I need to give them. Is it by case number and if so how do I find out what my case number is? Please let me know!! Thanks, Lisa
I have another dumb question about the adoption process. What is PA? Iv'e heard that I can't enter PGN until I have PA & SWreport. My agency tells me nothing! I have never felt so clueless before in my life!!!! Kelly, anybody, please let me know!!!! Thanks, Lisa
PA is Pre-approval. The US Embassy must give you (1st)DNA authorization, DNA is taken, then the Embassy reviews the case and if everything looks OK to them, they issue Pre-Approval. You cannot EXIT PGN until you have Pre-Approval...this is somewhat of a gentleman's agreement between the US and Guatemala to avoid the scenario where an adoption is finalized but the child does not qualify for a visa.
SWReport is Social Worker Report which is similar to a homestudy for the birthmother (or relinquishing family).
Monica, My case has been in investigations since March 1 because my birthmother incorrectly answered a question during her interview. My attorney/agency still tells me that my case will get out of investigation, they just don't know when. I am sure there are cases that proceed after investigation, but it greatly increases your time frame in PGN.
My case went into PGN on Feb. 8 and is still in investigations.
Sorry, I wish I had better news for us both. Good luck to you.
I see where Kelly answered your questions, but I thought I would mention one more thing that applies to a lot of the cases.
Not having your PA does not keep from entering PGN - but it will keep you from exiting PGN.
Our case, as many others, was submitted to enter PGN without the PA. Our DNA was delayed, due to paper errors - so the PA could not be submitted until DNA was complete. Our attorney submitted us without it - due to the hope that an examiner would review our case, then when they found there was no PA, and kicked it out, we would have the PA and be made aware of any other problems found during their examination of our case. That is exactly what happened. When they kicked us out, there were a couple of other minor problems, and we were able to clear them all up at once. Our attorney had all the corrections on our case when he put us back in to PGN.
About contacting the Embassy... contacting the embassy is to give you the status of your PA. Once your DNA has been completed, and submitted to the embassy you can inquire on the status. You are right - there is a case #, but all you need in your email is recognize yourself as the adopting parent (full names), your baby's full birth name, baby's birthdate, and the birth mother's full name. Just a short and polite note to inquire on the status of your PA. The embassy will usually return your email stating what date they received your case(with the case #), and tell you that they have 30-days to review your case. Then count the 30 days from when they received your case, then if you have not received an email of your pre-approval being granted by then - send another email.
I received the email from the embassy within 15 days, then I forwarded it to my agency, to forward it to my attorney, to pick my PA up at the embassy, to take to PGN. The emails don't always make it, so if you do not hear back - inquire AGAIN!!!
Once thing to realize is that the embassy and PGN are not intertwined. They are seperate intities. The embassy may sometimes try to help, but they really are not part of PGN.
I know it's confusing. It hasn't been that long since I was in the same seat you are in. International adoptions definitely have a language of their own!!
I hope this helped you.
Good luck & prayer be with you,
Does this timeline seem right? Seems like we are getting the same info in our updates but they are just reworded. Take a look and see what you think, please.
Wed., June 7: Dossier in Guat.
Fri., June 9: POA in Guat.
Fri., June 16: Dossier in Foreign Affairs & preparing for DNA test authorization.
Fri., June 23: No update information provided.
Fri., June 30: Dossier still in translation & DNA requested on 6/29.
Wed., July 5: Case still in foreign affairs being registered.
Fri., July 14: POA in registration & preparing to request DNA on 7/17.
Seems like nothing is moving. I feel like my agency (in Northwestern Ohio) is not being honest, but rather being sly with wording.
Frustration is setting in. Any opions??
My SW Report was done on June 16th but has not been submitted yet to Family court. Does anyone know how long this typically takes to get a report turned in?
From the date of the interview, it is supposed to take two weeks-so I was told by my agency, and it held true for our case.
Cheri F, Thanks so much for responding to my question. My next question is Iv'e been waiting for a social worker report since June 1. Who could I email to find out if it's done or why is it taking so long? Jenny, how long did it take to get your soial worker report done? I love this website!!!! All agencies should give the adoptive parents this website!! Iv'e learned more from all of you than I've learned in 10 months from my agency. Lisa
that timeline seems right to me but every agency is diffrent. I can tell you i have been in PGN since 3/24 it is now 7/15 and I am still waiting. I am thinking about an AS but to pay $3500 if I were you I would not start to worry until it is in PGN. This is confusing and depressig I wish you the best.
I would never tell someone what to do on such a personally issue. Make sure you do all the research there are alot of wonderful places to adopt and these children need homes. I can let you know I have been in this process of trying to adopt my little boy for almost 2years....I wish you the best.
For any families who have hired Adoption Supervisors; How did you work around your agency's contract and was there a clause in your contract saying that you can not interfere with the adoption process with another entity? Any information would be helpful.
Jamie, This page on the US Embassy website explains the Guatemala Adoption process and timelines so you can determine how long things should take and what the next steps are. http://travel.state.gov/family/adoption/country/country_389.html
It is very helpful for those seeking knowledge about the process.
I was told by my adoption agency that it would be a good idea to write to your senator and inform him or her of the problems that are happening at the Embassy and PGN, its worth a try. My attorny in Guatemala also stated the PGN was working on May and then going on to June, slowly.
I was the first one from our agency to hire AS, and then about 6 other families have followed. There was nothing in our contract about not being to another attorney for help, and since I was fed nothing but lies I really didn't care if they didn't like my decision. The director of the program did not have a problem with it, and I have shared information with her when I recieved it. I believe the other families have as well and it has worked out fine.
The owner of the agency was livid with me, sent me a nasty email and I replied with even a nastier one outlining all the lies I have been told by his agency which was about 2 pages long. He said AS would only delay my case and other adoptions and how self fish of me not to consider this. In the end AS caught my previo 4 days into PGN! The agency never signed my home study so it took another 11 days for my file to be released. In the meantime I was able to get a new home study to GT and spent another 8 weeks in PGN because of their mistake!!!
You need to do what's best for you, but hiring them was the best thing I could have done for my own sanity and it bringing my baby home.
Does your contract have a specific clause?
I thik your Att is not be fourthcoming b/c I have been in PGN since 3/24......... I am thinking they tell you what you want to hear. Good Luck maybe they forgot about March!
I saw your question about the social worker report. In our case it we got our updates from our agency but our social worker report took close to two months before it finally got submitted like it was supposed to be. And we never did get any explanation as to why it was not done when it was supposed to be except for the fact that Easter came along.
My husband and I are in Guatemala right now. We are at the Marriot and I have met a few families that are on their pick up trip, mainly 9-10 month old babies. There are at least 50 or so families on visit trips at this hotel. The staff here is very accomodating as a majority of their business is adopotive families. The hotel lobby, resteraunts,pool,etc is filled with US families with Guatemalan babies! Hopefully we will be back soon(we have been in PGN for 3 weeks, but got KO after 2 weeks for minor fixable things. Maybe that is good because at least somebody has looked at our case!
Question for those who have used AS. Has using them brought your child home to you any sooner/or at all? From what I've read they get info for you,but I have not read from anyone that due to using them your child has been able to come home.... The info they get should be public knowledge to those involved in your case, why can't our attorney's get this info?
Any info regarding these questions would be appreciated.
We've been out of PGN for weeks now and have our son's new passport but our attorney can't seem to get to the Embassy to get the pink slip.
She was supposed to get it last monday and on friday we got an e-mail that due to student protests at the Embassy her runner was unable to pick it up on friday. We feel so close but yet so far. I AM so grateful to be out of PGN but when will the delays and false hopes end?
I feel sorry for those of you having difficulty with your agency. Mine is very informative and keeps us up to date with weekly newsletters and information. We are not in the PGN yet, still waiting for DNA test, but I am still hopefull that this will all be cleared up soon.
In our case, our facilitator in Guatemala was lying to our stateside agency. Our agency passed on false information to us without confirming it. As you can imagine this made us extremely angry at our agency when it was actually the facilitator who is lying to all of us. We trusted our agency and our agency trusted the facilitator. Believe me, this has been a learning experience for all involved. The information that AS provided us was helpful because they also told us how to work with it and what to do. They supervised our cases and counseled us. No one else was doing that! Our agency was just in the dark as much as we were. That was scary to us since we had paid a whole bunch of money to them. We are expecting to be submitted to PGN this week so we can't answer your question if AS helped us bring our babies home sooner than if we had not used them. But this is what we do know...that correct information about our cases made a world of difference to us and put us in control. They told us exactly what to ask our agency to do and request from the facilitator. They helped us push at the right time and in the "right places". For example, we were told in March that we were totally done with Family Court with both babies when actually we were not submitted until late May and June. We accepted a referral in Jan, filled out all the paperwork and had them authenicated(POA for her and Rights of the Child) when in fact she was assigned to another family and the facilitator filed the I600 for them in Jan. For 6 weeks we fell in love her believing that she was ours. AS saved us more heartache by telling us the truth 2 months before our agency told us we had lost the referral. AS told us to contact our congressmen so that he could inquire on our behalf about paperwork submitted to the US Embassy. We were able to receive confirmation from the US Embassy that the I600 was submitted for another family. We were totally lost and felt so helpless when we only worked with our agency. The information that AS gets is available to the facilitator but when you have a untrusthworthy facilitator...well...enough said. We are very anxious to see if our stay in PGN is going to be shorter with AS working with us. I can tell you that we have more hope that our adoptions will be completed because of AS assistance.
With our first adoption last summer (2005), we experienced similar problems getting the pink slip. We received PGN approval 5/31/05 but waited until 7/25/05 for Pink. Our attorney told us he would get in line at the embassy at 5:00am and the lines were so long he wouldn't make it in by the end of the day. Truth? Who knows! Hang in there!
This is so sad! Reading all of this information makes it so hard. Who knows who is telling the truth and who is being lied too. This is so ridiculous we all pay alot of money with the hopes that our att and agency are honest and fourthcoming about any new information. Why is it that they we have to pay more and more money just to find a perfect solution! I am sure most of us adopting have gone through many difficult moments just to get to this point. I feel for every singal one of us especially the babies! I really hope there is a light at the end of this tunnel for all of us.......
Jennifer Van Wieren or anybody who has used AS,
Can you please tell me specifically how AS has helped you since my agency is looking into hiring them for all their adoptions now if they really can get info that is not available to them
I just checked the JCICS web site that here is a new post with PGN information and approx timelines:
HERE IS THE ACTUAL POST:
July 18, 2006
The Embassy in Guatemala is reporting that they are receiving cases in the same timeline, without delays. JCICS has repeatedly brought up the delays at the PGN. The response has been that the Embassy is still under 30 days for their processing of cases, but the new Head of PGN is not signing off on cases as quickly. JCICS has heard antidotally that it is taking on average 8 - 12 weeks for a case leave of PGN, instead of the previous 4 – 6 week average. Any updates we receive will be posted on our website.
You can feel free to e-mail me at firstname.lastname@example.org. I will be glad to tell you some ways that we have been helped with Adoption Supervisors. Our agency is currently working with them to help us bring Gabbie home.
For some of the people that wanted to know the time line form PGN to Pink slip. We were out of PGN on June 19th and we were just given notice that our pink slip was issued on July 18th. Our agency told us that the estimate time of travel would be 4-6 weeks and we will travel on July 24th, which makes 5 weeks. Our agency has been correct with the time lines. We were stuck in PGN for 10 weeks with one k/o. I know it is not as long as some of you. My prayers go out to everyone waiting to bring there babies home. It will happen.
We were called Monday late afternoon and told that our Embassy date was this Friday. My husband left for Guat early this AM. (our other son had surgery this AM)
What a whirlwind making all the arrangements. So if anyone is out of PGN be prepared at any moment. Good luck to all! I am so excited I can't function! Jill
We used AS in our last adoption. We came out of PGN last Friday. They were great!!.
We worked with Marco (he´s a specialist in PGN) and went to talk to people at PGN several times. Actually many families from our agency have used them as well and had the best experience. Basically it´s the information they give you. It´s a lot different from what we normally get from our agencies.
Anyway, let me know if you want more specific info.
I read this site everyday. To tell the truth, I am not sure if helps. Our baby boy was born October 21, 2005 and was referred on November 3, 2005. We have been in PGN since March 15, 2006. Our file is in the Minors Section. We have been told over and over that there is nothing wrong with his file. Our agency is great but we switched attorneys from our first adoption which was wonderful, 5 months and 1 week from referral to home. I am wondering if all of us stuck in the Minors Section are with the same attorney. I have been told this is all due to false documents on other files our attorney handled. We have hired an AS. We hired them at the end of June but so far all they have been able to do is tell us "Minors Section is still investigating".
I pray for all of us.
Thank you for posing that about JCICS. We were in PGN on June 26th. It would have been sooner but it took our attorney 2 weeks to pickup the Pre-Approval. The coordinator in Guatemala told us we would be out of PGN between August 28th upto Sept 27th. I didn't know how they could pinpoint the dates like that. At least now we know.......
I just wanted to share my great news! We're out of PGN! Just when I thought we wouldn't get our little girl home before she turned one, we got the call that we were out of PGN. We entered PGN on June 2nd and exited on July 18th. Our birth mother is a minor, so we thought for sure there would be delays, but with no kick outs, we are out!! I hope this gives hope to some of you in our time lines. Grace was born 12-11-05, we had PA on 4-19, due to our social worker getting fired before the final report was made to family court, we didn't enter PGN until 6-2. We've been told that we can expect to travel in 4-5 weeks. They said it takes 3 weeks to get a birth certificate, even though Grace was born in Guatemala city, does that seem normal? I love this site and have read it religiously every day for hope, information, and just plain old commiseration. I know people don't want to hear hang in there, but HANG IN THERE! Your babies will come home! Grace will be 8 months old when she comes home and I can't wait! Take care! Kimberly
Congratulations on your wonderful news!! You are close to our timeline. We originally entered PGN on April 7th, but received a previo on May 3rd, and didn't re-enter until June 8th - so June 8th is our date.
They said last Friday, that the PGN Director was working on May 31st, and moving forward. That was a piece of hope for us, but I didn't bank on it. That may actually be true now.
As far as the birthcertificate from Guatemala City... our daughter was also born in Guatemala City, and as I've understood it - in the areas outside Guatemala City, the BC can be obtained much quicker. But... getting the BC from Guatemala City taked additional time. I'm not sure why, but I was told the same.
Again, congratulations to you and your family.
It only took us about 7 business days to get our BC from GT City! We hope to be traveling next week!
8 months old is a really exciting time! It will be wonderful!
Mama forever to Anarosa as of May 26, 2004
Has anyone ever heard of the Chamber Chief who works in PGN? Is there such a position?
Where are you getting this information from? I have been in PGN since 3/24 what do you mean he is working foward from May.
I called directly to pgn on friday.The cases that don't have any more problems go to the desk of the director to be sign.He is signing right know cases that clear up to june 6.That means if your case was clear by the reviewer for example on 7-20-06,It will see the director desk on around 5 weeks for final approval and signing off.
It is obvious that there are a lot of different stories out there about when cases will receive final approval. To read that someone called PGN and were told that if your case was cleared by the reviewer on 7/20 it will see the directors desk in around 5 weeks is disheartening when I was just told yesterday that my case should be cleared by the reviewer this week and then it will be approx. 2 weeks before I know whether it is finally approved by the director or if he finds a reason to kicked it out (which he is famous for). All of last week I felt positive for the first time in a long time and then to read this...one step forward, 2 steps back. I am wondering if I should take another break from the computer.
PGN is teling you what you want to hear. Believe me I know 1st hand...I hope for your sake it is true, but don't believe it til it happens.I know many people in my postion right now and there cases have no problems............I spoke with my agency and my Att. Good luck I hope it is true because I have been in since 3/24. I can say I love my little guy but I do not think I will ever adopt again.
I am happy to hear you have cleared PGN. My son was also born in GC. The reason for the 3 week wait is, according to my caseworker, because it is much busier in the office in GC due to so much more paperwork going through that office. I, too, was hoping to get my son home before 1 year old. I had a party planned and everything. We went into PGN in Feb with only 1 previo in March. My son turned 1 as we still wait and the party was off because we still sit in PGN. I do want to say this because your comment has bothered and hurt me since I read it....it is hard for those of us to hear 'hang in there' when we sit in PGN over 5 months with no apparent problem to our case....especially when some are only in for 6 or 7 weeks. I truly am happy for you and all others who clear, it is nice to know things are still happening but that comment has weighed on my mind and hurt me since I read it on Friday....especially since your case flew through PGN and at this point our case is taking at this point at least a year to finalize since we have been in PGN so long.
Thank you for allowing me to vent.
To answer your question, concerning where I'm getting my information from - it's coming from the Yahoo Family Forum Message Board. There are several members on that board that have very good relationships with their attorneys and facilitators. Those members post the news they get, so everyone else is informed. So far... I have none of their information to be incorrect. Sometimes vague, but never incorrect.
Gus is correct... these are cases that show NO problems, and have been cleared by the examiners, only waiting for his signature.
We, too, have been in for quite some time now - since April 7th, originally - then kicked out, then back in on June 8th. As mentioned before... the later of the dates is now considered the "PGN Date", and I'm not really sure which of these dates the director is working off of, but AT LEAST there does seem to be some type of "structure" to what he's doing down there.
I'm doing my best to keep my head up and remain as positive as possible, like most every other family in waiting - and any glimpse of good news, is a lot better than no news or bad news. There is no way to maintain a healthy heart and mind, if all we do is concentrate on the negatives.
Last week I asked my friends and family to pray for my patience - and our social worker responded by telling me, "don't pray for patience - because God will answer your prayers, and give you months and months of patience. We want this baby to come home soon - so you must pray for UNDERSTANDING!!"
God's timing does not always fit in to our agendas, but He will bring these children home in His timing.
I have a question about us very long-timers. For example, we entered PGN 12/28/05 and in March we were put PGN investigation and then we were put back into regular PGN on June 23rd.
What happens to cases like ours who maybe haven't been cleared yet? Do we wait another 5 weeks after being cleared too? This would seem extremely unfair when you see people getting out of PGN who just got in.
Jennifer Van Wieren
remenber that the date that really counts is not the date you enter pgn for the first time,because after each previo,you get a new receipt and shows the new pgn date.If you enter on 3/06 and got a previo on4/06 and re-enter on 5/06,that means you enter pgn on 5/06.Good luck
I agree with you. I wish you the best. But, I am finding this whole process is unfair! It is depressing and heart wrenching. I have been in PGN for a long time too. Not nearly as long, but long.
If I were you I have come to expect the worst and maybe someone will surprise you. But, do no count on it. Good Luck
My husband had his apt. with the embassy early friday morning. At that time there were 12 other families there for apts. The embassy was only open 1/2 day on friday so it looks like things are moving.
I may be way off here, but shouldn't the original PGN date have some precedence over the re-enter date? Even if one had a KO, and then resubmitted, shouldn't they be processing people by the first date of submission? When a case is resubmitted after a KO, do they just check to see if that correction is good, and then clear it and send it to the director's desk? Or does it go back to the beginning (or to the end of the pile), and it's like we were never in PGN at all up until that resubmission date.
None of this sounds at all logical to me. Sorry for all the questions...just trying desperatly to figure this out like everyone else...:(
Thank you for posting your information about the appointments from Friday.
All good news needs to be communicated.
Thanks again, and prayers to you and your family,
Just a note to tell everyone that my case manager had two PGN approval releases within the last four days. One was released on Friday, and the other was today. The Friday release was submitted early May, and had no kick outs. The one today was submitted early May, then kicked out, then resubmitted on June 8th.
Also... our agency had us submit letters to our senators over the weekend, in effort to get assistance in the delays in PGN to be included in the US Embassy's meeting with the PGN Director this week. I am proud to say that my Georgia senator, Saxby Chamliss, responded very quickly to my letter, and even copied me back on the response from the US Embassy today. The embassy did acknowledge the meeting, and agreed to present my case, and others submitted. They, of course, could not make any promises, since PGN is a Guatemalan unit, not a US unit, but they did state that their purpose was to attempt to figure out what is causing the delays, and to discuss efforts to attempt to get things moving ahead.
Prayers to all of us waiting to bring our babies home,
We are using Commonwealth Adoptions and so far, so good.
I spoke with my agency yesterday. people who have ben doing adoptions in Guatemala for years. She said the way it used to be was if you were KO then put back in, they had 10 business days to let you out or KO for something else she said that is the law and they are breaking it. I guess it really dose not matter b/c we are still in PGN. 4 months! The date you went in is the original date they should go by. That is what I was told and I believe them.
My agency told me the same thing. There are people in Guatemala and here trying to help us. Sometimes we do not know everything going on; on the sidelines. But I truly believe people are trying. Everything you said I was also told. I now believe there is a light at the end of this tunnel. When it will come I do not know but it will. Good luck.
HI-I AM ALSO ADOPTING IN GUATEMALA THROUGH WIDE HORIZONS FOR CHILDREN,INC (MASSACHUSSETTS) I AM FROM LONG ISLAND NY..THIS IS MY 2ND TIME..1ST TIME 9 YRS AGO 1997,& I WAS READING WHAT RITA POSTED..9 YRS AGO PGN HAD 15 BUSINESS DAYS TO EITHER APPROVE & SEND ON TO EMBASSY OR REQUEST OTHER DOCUMENTS, BUT IF REQSTD OTHER DOCUMENTS (PREVIO) AS SOON AS IT WENT BACK TO PGN, THEY HAD ONLY 15 DAYS AGAIN,THIS GOING TO THE BOTTOM OF THE PILE IS RIDICULOUS,& UNACCEPTABLE!! I WROTE TO THE EMBASSY LAST WEEK BECAUSE I AM IN PGN SINCE APRIL WITH 1 PREVIO (SO FAR),WHO KNOWS?
Well, i just wanted to make a comment regarding the time that cases stays after people are kO. In the past maybe they had 10 business days to let you out or KO for something else but not anymore. I don't want to discourage you but this is the third week for us after we were KO and we haven't heard anything. The adoption supervisors told us that sadly after you are KO it takes five or six weeks to be approved. I believe it is true! Like i said i don't want to discourage you but i want you to be aware about the time. That will help you to hang in there. I am having a hard time after we were KO. First at all, because the excuse for doing that was a stupid thing (medical report) that they have never asked before (according to our lawyer and the adoption supervisores) and secondly because I thought we were going to be approved after two weeks and that hasn't happened. So, now I am telling myself that I have to wait for two more weeks so i won't get crazy and deppressed. This waiting is killing me! I am sure that you know what i mean saying this.
First, so sorry for your KO and the extra wait. Did Adoption Supervisors tell you they could do anything about being KO'd for some idiosynchrasy of the reviewer (a document no one has been asked for before), or did they pretty much tell you you've just got to go along with it, even though it seems...um...corrupt? I sort of hope to hear that they might have some influence within their country's system to pull together the various instances where this happens, and try to help this government department establish some clear boundaries of fair play. I know they aren't "lobbyists" in the sense that some attorneys are in the U.S., but because of their interest in the children, might they be pursuing any strategies to help straighten out this kind of thing? I would feel good if they saw it as part of their mission, in addition to the business of providing information to parents. First Lady of Guatemala, if you are out there, here's a real way you could help the kids...
we were kicked out of PGN also for an updated medical report.(this was about 3 weeks ago) It only took about 6 days to re-enter PGN but were then kicked out again last week! I think it will take longer to fix this kickout b/c it involves the birthmom coming in to fix a paperwork error.
I too was told it can take 5 - 6 weeks to come out of PGN after a KO and that is assuming the Director doesn't kick you out again! I am going on my 6th weeks in PGN since being resubmitted for a KO. I began my stay in PGN in April and I am now a nervous wreck. I was told on Monday that my file was now on the Directors desk and they expect an answer one way or another this week or next week. I am excited and scare at the same time. Of course with tomorrow being Friday I have pretty much given up on this week and I am not looking to another weekend without news - good news. Every Friday is like this for me. I don't know what I will do if the Director finds a reason to kick me out. I fully understand what you mean about the wait.
Has anyone else had troubles finding out the date they went into PGN? I've been told we are in PGN, but can't seem to get them to tell me the date we entered.
I am right in the same boat w/ you. Today (Fri 28th) marks the 5th week that we are back in PGN after a KO. My nerves are completely shot too, hoping to hear something within the next week or so. How were you able to find out that your file is on the Director's desk?? Our agency is saying nothing to us. I would love to know if our file is also sitting on the 'king's' desk waiting for his royal signature.
HI ALL, I AM ALSO 6 WEEKS IN PGN RE-ENTERED PGN JUNE 14,2006..VERY NERVOUS ABOUT BEING K/O A 2ND TIME? HEARING ALOT ABOUT 2-3 K/O'S, THIS IS RIDICULOUS TO SAY THE LEAST!! ACCORDING TO MY AGENCY 6-8 WEEKS IS IN THE NORM FOR NOW, ALSO MY ATTORNEY DID CHECK WITH PGN & THEY WERE WORKING ON WEEK OF JUNE 6TH, BUT ONLY FOR CASES WITHOUT ANY MORE PROBLEMS. I DID SEE GUS ON JULY 23, HE WROTE PGN WAS WORKING ON JUNE 6TH, I CALLED MY AGENCY, & THEY CALLED ATTORNEY TO CHECK WITH PGN, & SHE DID CONFIRM THAT FOR ME. I HOPE THIS INFO HELPS, THE WAITING WITH NO NEWS IS PURE TORTURE!!
I KEEP LOOKING AT MY BABY'S PICTURES, & HIS ROOM IS SET UP,IT IS SOOO HARD!! I AM PRAYING FOR ALL OF US THIS STARTS TO MOVE FASTER, ALSO FOR ALL THE BABY'S WHO SHOULD BE WITH THEIR FOREVER FAMILIES. TAKE CARE ALL & GOD BLESS!
Hi to all:If you need to know where are you at this time in pgn,do what I did,call directly.If anyone need the direct # just e-mail me directly at email@example.com
and I will give you the number and what you need to know before you make a call.I did twice and so far the information given to me is been pretty much on the mark.Good luck to all!!Also you can call me at my cell 917-257/2583
Thank you Rosemarie,you are proof that my call to pgn and the information given to me was right on the money so far.I called today and they signing cases that left the reviewer desks with no more previos on 6/19/06.
We received our "call" on Wednesday. We came out of PGN on Tuesday, July 25th. To give you an idea of our timeline, it was as follows:
Entered PGN - April 7th
Kicked Out - May 3rd
Resubmitted to PGN - June 8th
PGN Out - July 25th
We are very excited about bringing our daughter home within the next few weeks.
God had His hand in every stage of our adoption, and many prayers were answered.
We will continue our prayers for the speedy releases from PGN for all the families in waiting.
We have been in Minors Section since March 15, 2006. We are hoping to be out by the end of the month. We are in Minors due to our attorney, she has problems on a lot of other files. Was anyone else in Minors and get out? How long did your file sit in PGN after that? Did you get any previos? We hired AS last month and we get more information. They are hoping 4 to 5 weeks until out of PGN once we clear Minors Section. Does that sound right?
Congratulations on getting out of PGN! I am so excited for you and for your daughter! Be sure to update us on your trip!
I was in the Minor's section from December 1, 2005 and just got out and approved by the chief of the minor's section last week. I too have an attorney with problem files and as a result hired AS to help and feel their attention to the file helped to move it through the process a little quicker. I am now in the 4 to 6 week process and will make sure to let you know if the case is out within this time frame.
Getting out of minor's with a favorable result is a really big deal so my prayers are with you.
I JUST GOT WORD YESTERDAY THAT I WAS PREVIO (2ND TIME) & RE-ENTERED PGN (3RD TIME) JULY 18,2006. MY AGENCY CALLED PGN DIRECTLY & SPOKE WITH SOMEONE TO FIND OUT WHERE MY CASE WAS AT THIS POINT. THE MAN SHE SPOKE WITH SAID MY CASE SOULD BE OUT 2ND WEEK OF AUGUST FOR GOOD..WE SHALL SEE!
I AM SOO FRUSTRATED!!, BUT WANTED TO LET YOU ALL KNOW GUS WAS CORRECT WITH TIME FRAMES. MY AGENCY CONFIRMED WITH PGN CASES ARE MOVING 4-6 WEEKS AT THIS POINT, IF YOUR CASE IS IN LONGER LIKE MINE WAS IT IS MOST LIKELY BEEN PREVIO & RE-ENTERED AGAIN, THE ATTORNEY DID NOT TELL MY AGENCY ABOUT THIS, & I KNOW THE AGENCY COORDINATOR IS ADVISING THE ATTORNEY'S THEY NEED TO TELL THEM WHEN THE CASE IS PREVIO, SO THE FAMILIES WILL KNOW WHAT HAPPENED. I WAS LIVID YESTERDAY, THAT WE WERE NOT TOLD ABOUT ALL THIS!! BUT NOW, AT LEAST I KNOW WHERE MY CASE IS. TAKE CARE ALL!!
Thanks for giving us the update and the positive words. It makes me feel better knowing that PGN is moving and the 4-6 week estimate is great. I only hope I am able to make it thru without any previo.I hope you are able to get approved in the next few weeks and bring your child home soon. I went into PGN the first week of July, but havent heard anything from my lawyer. Should I be concerned that I was previo? My lawyer said to estimate 2-3 months minimum, what do you think? Thanks again for your support and positive words. Praying for your child to come home soon.
I AM SEEING FROM OTHER CASES ON THE INTERNET, & MY OWN PERSONAL EXPERIENCE, MOST CASES ARE PREVIO 1-2 TIMES..BUT I HEARD FROM OTHERS THAT PGN IS NOW PROMISING TO ONLY PREVIO CASES 1 TIME, WHICH WOULD BE A LOT BETTER & A LITTLE QUICKER. BUT YOU CAN'T TRUST EVERYTHING YOU HEAR, IT COULD BE INCORRECT INFORMATION. BUT I WILL TELL YOU MY CASE WAS IN PGN 4 WEEKS WHEN IT CAME OUT OF PGN WITH PREVIOS, BOTH TIMES..SO I ESTIMATE 4-6 WEEKS. I WILL TELL YOU ALSO THAT THE ATTORNEY'S DON'T ALWAYS TELL YOU WHAT IS GOING ON, & THAT YOUR CASE WAS PREVIO. I FOUND OUT BECAUSE MY PROGRAM COORDINATOR CALLED PGN DIRECTLY & SPOKE TO SOMEONE & THEY LOOKED IT UP ON THE COMPUTER & TOLD HER IT WAS PREVIO & RE-ENTERED 7/18, ORIG DATE ENTERED WAS 4/6/06, OUT & PREVIO FIRTS WEEK OF MAY, THEN BACK IN PGN 6/14/06, PREVIO PROBABLY 7/14/06 NOW BACK IN 7/18/06, THE PERSON WHO HELPED HER TOLD HER WE WOULD BE OUT 2ND WEEK OF AUGUST, BUT I DON'T KNOW, WHAT CELSE COULD HAPPEN, YOU NEVER KNOW. I KNOW HOW HARD IT IS..MY HUSBAND & I & OUR DAUGHTER ARE GOING CRAZY!
YOU SHOULD CALL PGN YOURSELF, BUT YOU NEED TO SPEAK SPANISH, OR ASK YOUR AGENCY IF THEY CAN CALL FOR YOU? IF YOU DON'T HAVE THE # EMAIL ME @
JORO2473@AOL.COM..GOOD LUCK SPEAK TO YOU SOON!
I just wanted to post another PGN OUT!!! we are finally out!!!!!!!
Timelines as Follows:
Entered PGN 04/06/06
K/O 1st week of May 06
COME ON BC & PINK!!!!!!!!!!!!
I would discourage anyone from calling PGN. I have heard numerous times that it can cause more of a delay in your case. I have only been in 5 weeks but I'm praying for us all to gets OUTs very soon!