From time to time I am asked questions in regards to cases that end up in abandonment - due to varying circumstances. Although relinquishment is the most common form of securing a referral, there are always a certain number of families that are presented with difficult decisions when deciding on what to do once their case is headed toward abandonment. And, speaking from experience, I completely understand the "lonliness" felt when this scenario is presented. Parents have been struggling to understand the rules of the relinquishment process in addition to all the acronyms such as FC, PGN, CIS, POA, DNA, etc... and now they are presented with an entirely new set of rules. Abandonment is a scary word, but it is also survivable and rewarding at times. Like relinquishment, one becomes more comfortable with "abandonment" by gathering information about the process as a whole.
There are important items to know when dealing with an abandonment case such as.......
an immediate understanding that nothing is guaranteed. There are only expectations of an outcome, but there are NO promises of a decree being issued and the child being adopted. Realizing this from day one helps one deal with the possible "hurdles" thay may arise while the case is being ruled on. For some, this is enough to cause such anxiety that the only way to relieve it is to move on and accept another referral. For others it is a time to "dig their heels in" for a long and uncertain process. Neither decision is either "right" or "wrong," it is simply what that family needs to do.
As we are adopting independently (see A Second Time), we have been offered the "potential" referral of a little girl currently in abandonment. The decision was easy for us!! The second her photo "popped" up on the screen, she became our daughter. Now when I say that, understand that we completely understand the uncertainty with abandonment. We're a family that doesn't place too much emphasis on "when" our child comes home, so getting a child home at 4-6 or 6-8 months becomes irrelavent once we have affixed this little angel in our hearts.
Once in abandonment the first question asked is "how long will it take?" There are no timelines for abandonment, as I have seen some last years when others are completed in 3-4 months. Everything hinges on the circumstances behind the child. As a general rule, abandonments will require a minimum of two court hearings in order for an abandonment decree being issued. Quite often there are more, but this is a beginning point. And, depending on the "circumstances" the time between court dates can be lengthy or rather short. In years past, it could take forever and there could possibly be several more court hearings above and beyond the two.
To begin with, the child in question is placed at disposition in the Court of Minors. This court will inturn immediately place the child under a "temporary status" in an orphanage and/or hogar (called ambrigo temporal). This is done for the safety of the child. From here, all legal proceedings will take place. It is my understanding that "where" the child is placed is completely up to the judge. There are no guarantees the child will be placed in a "favorable" hogar for adoption. Should there already be established legal representation for the child, the likelyhood of being placed in a "favorable" hogar is much better. And, it is important to understand that even though there are no guarantees on placement, most judges in these situations follow the credence of "in the child's best interest."
Once placed in an hogar, the legal representation for the hogar follows up in the courts with the case. This can be an attorney that represents the hogar, or it can be the director of the hogar should he/she be qualified. And, I must note here that NOT everyone can proceed with an abandonment case in a manner that does justice to the child in question. There are some that are "more qualified" to handle abandonments than others. Hence, the varying timelines for abandonments.
Abandonment situations are highly scrutinized by many entities of the Guatemalan legal system. Every "claim" in regards to the child must be legitimate, no living family member can be located to raise the child / or no family member qualifies to provide for the child, and every document must be legitimate as well. The decision the court makes is made "in the best interest of the child" of each individual situation found. All of this takes place between the hearings. Field investigators are sent out to research and report on the situation and to locate family members. Judges and social workers are scrutinizing the legal documents along with any other circumstances involved. And, PGN even expresses an "opinion." It is my understanding this section of PGN is a branch outside of the city.
Once all the legal claims have been thoroughly investigated, a judge may (chances are) rule that an abandonment decree be issued for the child. Approximately two-weeks after this issuance, the legal adoption can start. Once through the abandonment, the adoption proceeds as any other adoption through pre-approval, Family Court, PGN, and eventually the US Embassy. There are slight differences. DNA is no longer an issue. Pre-approval is based now on the abandonment issuance and not a DNA match. There is no longer a bio-mother interview in Family Court; the child is now represented by the hogar. The appropriate hogar representatives will now be interviewed in place of the bio-mother. And, on the final protocolo, the legal representative signs off where the bio-mother normally would in a relinquishment.
Abandonment is not for the "weary." It can be a long and treacherous path to a very uncertain outcome. There are many "cloudy" areas between court hearings. Who exactly is notified and how they are notified varies. In our first case, both bio-grandparents were notified via hand-delivered letters. We're not sure if anyone else received these or not. From an adoptive parent perspective, this is a very "scary" time. At any point, a capable family member may decide to raise the child in question. For us, we felt this was "in the best interest of the child," and we were emotionally prepared should that be the case. As difficult as it would have been, it would have been the right thing to do. I have since visited our daughter's bio-grandmother and aunt, and I must say the meeting was incredible. It was interesting to hear their perspective and I have to say, from our conversation, there still remains some extremely alarming "rumors" about the intent of adoptive families.
Best wishes!!
Posted by Troy at August 15, 2006 08:11 PMTroy, Thank you for this post. Our referral received her abandonment decree a few weeks before she was referred to us. I appreciate the insight on what happened in her case before we came into the picture.
Posted by: C.H. at August 16, 2006 09:35 PMThanks for the positive infomation. Our twins came out of abandoment at 5 months and it is a very lonely process.
Posted by: Katie at August 17, 2006 11:46 AMDear C.H. and Katie,
A regular adoption has been such a painful and unending process for us, so I think you must be very strong and good to try to help children in an even more difficult situation.
You are in my heart and prayers. I hope you can connect with others in this process so it won't seem so lonely. Loneliness shared is easier, but often not easy to find others to share openly the sorrows as well as the joys - people who have been there too.
Posted by: Ruth at August 17, 2006 02:20 PMMy best friend just found out that her little girl is going to go through abandonment. She got her referral in July of 2005. She is 13 months old now. She was told for months and months that everything was moving along fine then a in June, all of a sudden there was something wrong with the BM's birth certificate. Now this has become a huge issue with the Civil Registry and she is left with continuing to who knows what or getting a new referral. Absolutely right, no right or wrong in this decision. Although I understand that if you accept a new referral and then the child becomes adoptable, you have the first option. Has anyone else heard this to be true? Hang in there everyone, seems like the new cases in PGN are moving much faster.
Posted by: Shelly at August 17, 2006 06:27 PMThank you Troy for this information. After a lengthy 3 1/2 yers trying to bring our daughter home it turned abandonement. It is extremely frustrating waiting even longer for things to take place. Our case was moved from area to another and it's been another two months of waiting for the 1st hearing. We dont know what the outcome will be but we are in it until the very end...one way or another. At this point we just want it to end.
Anyway, thanks the information helps me to see what is all involved.
Audra
We are waiting for pink for our daughter who was an abandonment case. We did know when we accepted her referral that she would have to go through abandonment. However, it was SO difficult to find out much on that part of the process. And what I did find out what discouraging. It did take about five/six months to get her CofA and then another 6 weeks for her new BC. Then our adoption was about 4 months long, though it seemed much longer. :) Now we are just waiting for the call to bring her home. We knew when we saw her that she was meant to be our daughter, and we would have gone through the process to get her even knowing all we know now. But I will admit...it was lonely. I had a difficult time finding people who had dealt with abandonment. Many "friends of friends" who had offered up their friends' stories which usually were discouraging. Finally after one of my breakdowns (crying/discouraged), my agency put us in touch with another family that was just finishing their abandonment adoption. It helped so much to know I was not alone.
Posted by: Reba at August 19, 2006 12:43 PMI just found out last week that my little girl will go through abandonment. She is 13 months old and I have loved her since she was only four days old. I can't offer any encouraging words because this process has drained every emotion from my body. I can't understand why an issue with the birth mother's birth certificate and civil registry issues would put a child through this horrible situation. She is my daughter and I have been told that I will have the first option to adopt her once she is through this process and back into the adoption process but they certainly cannot give any time frames. All I can say is God must find the time to intervene on these poor innocent children and bring them home to the families who simply want to love and take care of them.
Posted by: Pamella at August 20, 2006 08:48 AMWe too are waiting through an abandonment. Our situation is unique in that we actually were out of PGN waiting on final signature when things fell apart. After 10 months in process our case is now in abandonment. We started the abandonment this past March and as far as I know, nothing has happened at all in the case. We have been told it will be a "long" time and like the others, we are prepared to wait it out. We know these are our children and we love them dearly.
Posted by: Dawn at August 20, 2006 10:11 PMI definitely empathize with those of you "staying the course" in order to bring your children home. As difficult as it may be throughout the process, one justifying thought is to realize there is an innocent child that NEEDS someone!! You have made the committment to be THAT someone.
When we were at our lowest fighting to get our daughter home, we asked THE question that we thought would never come out of our mouths - "Why is this happening to us???" We had reached a turning point in our will power that still bothers my memory today. We had a fleeting moment when we put OURSELVES ahead of our daughter!! Our facilitator at the time responded to our question without hesitation - she snapped her head around and stated rather sharply, "because YOU can handle it!!" It was those words that corrected our thought process and helped us "stay the course."
So, remember, there are certain things that certain people are to endure. Not because one is being punished, but because one can handle it.
As I "tuck" our soon to be three-year old in tonite, I can't help but thank God we "handled it."
Troy
Posted by: Troy at August 20, 2006 10:34 PMTo Troy and the other waiters,
Troy, thank you for your words again. We felt that if we gave birth to a child with problems we would HANDLE it. So we felt the same with our daughter that was referred to us. We fell in love at first sight and nothing would change that. We could NEVER turn our backs on her no matter what.If she comes home, WHAT a joyous time it will be. We long for that time but for now we are willing to wait it out.
It has not been easy the first year 1 1/2 was shear torture for myself. I thought I would just die because of the heartbreak. i was never so sick in my life from the stress of it all. Thankfully we did bring home another daughter but were more determined than ever to wait for our sweet
Isabella.
It is the toughest thing we have ever endured and still are. And for those of you just starting this abandonement process , may you be strong. if anyone wants to talk PLEASE email me. Support from others going through this would be appreciated.
Warmest to all,
Audra
Pamella,
I remember your note from earlier this month as I thought our situation was something like yours - waiting so long and our babies about the same age.
Our phone call is not coming to pick up little Thomas, and weeks go by and the agency is now getting "cagey." I wonder if our baby will be in abandonment now that I read that this CAN happen EVEN AFTER you are "only waiting for the phone call to come pick up your baby."
I am very sorry this has happened to you and the others. It is almost a relief to know that this can happen as we go on and on and no one ever calls to come get our baby. Sometimes it is better to know what lies ahead and what is wrong - than this dreadful not knowing why nothing is happening - even when all is supposed to be "fine." Perhaps we must "push" our agency to be honest with what is wrong. This will be the 5th baby that has been lost to us in the adoption process. It is supposedly a different mistake or problem every time. At least abandonment might be better than an outright LOSS.
Posted by: Ruth at August 23, 2006 12:01 AMHas anyone out there used Susana Luarca in Guatemela for an abandonment case? After 13 months, I just recently found out that my little girl will have to go through that process. Heartbroken is not close to expressing the feelings. My attorney is recommending Susana. I cannot take any further disappointments or for this not to happen after agreeing and going through the process for God knows how much longer. I appreciate anyone's responses even Susana's. Good luck to everyone else in your process.
Posted by: Pamella at August 25, 2006 06:21 PMI would like everyone who reads this website to know that if you are stuck in PGN or having issues getting information from your adoption agency, please email Adoption Supervisors (SJI). The site I'm speaking of is Edwin and Manfred, the original AS. I should have done this months ago. You may have read my problems over various entries. I got my referral when she was only 4 days old, July 28, 2005. I was led to believe I would have her in 6-8 months. I was told by my agency that everything was moving along just fine and on schedule up until April. (8 months) I even have an email from them at that time stating it was still on schedule, however, I was also told that I was stuck in the US Embassy for three months. This ended up not being true, I was through the embassy in 8 days. On June 30th, I was told that there was an issue with the birth mother's birth certificate and this could take another four months to have corrected. I traveled to Guatemala to spend my babies first birthday with her. The foster family is wonderful and the trip gave me peace that she is being taken care of. When I returned, a few weeks later, I was then given news that something was seriously wrong with the case and that my daughter would have to go through the abandonment process. It was then that I borrowed money to hire Adoption Supervisors. They have given me more information and communicated more in two weeks time than what I have heard from my adoption agency or attorney handling this case in 13 months. They have communicated with me almost daily and given me the truth in regard to what's going on. Edwin, Manfred and their teams are awesome! I recommend to anyone and everyone who is having the same types of problems with PGN or delays from their adoption agencys and attorneys to hire them. They are worth every penny. This has been such an emotional nightmare. They have brought me some peace of mind and confidence that I need to continue to move through this process. I read this site for months and months, reading stories about other people not trusting their agencies or attorneys and then hiring Adoption Supervisors. I just kept thinking this wouldn't happen in MY case. It did! I wish I would not have waited so long to hire them. I cannot and will not give up on my daughter.
Posted by: Pamella at August 27, 2006 09:54 AMWow! Thank you for some information in regards to abandonment. I find it to be scarce.
Our prospective adoptive son ended up in a Hogar.
We ended up accepting this referral from a terrible, infamous, facilitator unbeknownst to us.
The adoption went bad, we lost our money, and the worst is now our child is in an orphanage.
The Birth Mom and her family don't want him.
Our good Guat Atty that we have used for our first two adoptions and our fourth is kindly checking on him.
I have emailed the atty for him two times and he has not responded.
Will they remember us? Can we have first opportunity to adopt him if they issue a COA?
Who does abandonment adoptions? Do I go through the hogar?
ANY help/input is greatly appreciated.
Let's dig our heels in and fight and get our babies home!
Laura Jean
Posted by: Laura Jean at August 28, 2006 03:34 PMExcuse my ignorance, but how can a case become an abandonment case after getting out of PGN? What ends up being wrong with a mother's birth certificate to make it an abandonment case? Why isn't this caught earlier on in the process by the attorney? Sorry to ask so many questions, but I didn't know that a case could suddenly become an abandonment case.
Dana and Mike
Posted by: Dana & Mike at August 28, 2006 04:41 PMDana and Mike, I don't know if you're responding to my post in regard to ending up in abandonment, but it was NOT approved by PGN. I went to PGN on March 15, 2006. I was KO'd at least twice going back in to PGN. It was the end of June when I was finally told there was an issue with the birth mother's birth certificate. Should it have been caught earlier by the attorney? I say YES. they said that it was never requested before and they didn't know. They said they didn't require the birth mother's birth certificate in the past if she was an adult and not a minor. Not saying I believe what they're telling me, just telling you that's what my attorney has explained. Again, if you are stuck, I highly recommend using Adoption Supervisors, SJI, Edwin and Manfred.
Posted by: Pamella at August 28, 2006 06:15 PMI credit Edwin and Manfred, the Adoption Supervisors, with bringing my son home. I had a facilitator named Karla who was pure evil. She called me in early December 2004 and told me my son was out of PGN, he would be home in 5 weeks and that her remaining fee was due. The idiot adoption agency TOLD me to send her the remaining fee. After 5 weeks went by she had such a fanatical tale to explain why she didn't have his birth certificate that I demanded to see the approval from PGN. When she and the adoption agency wouldn't produce it, I hired the Adoption Supervisors. Within 3 business days they reported that I had not exited PGN because Karla was purposely resubmitting the same wrong paperwork. They suspected that Karla was using my money to pay other debts (they had dealt with her before). Because of Edwin and Manfred I knew the truth and had frequent updates, which is the minimum that we should expect from our adoption agencies. Just keeping me informed with the truth put my mind at ease and made the waiting so much easier. I finally had Luke in my arms forever on April 22, 2005. He was 11 months old. Karla even tried to extort money from me outside of the US Embassy, while I was holding my son in my arms. When I picked up his visa that afternoon, I reported her to the embassy and they took it very seriously. They did investigate, but I think because I did get my son home, it was less of a priority, as the embassy is so understaffed. Can you imagine how evil a facilitator must be to call a mom and tell her the baby is coming home after Christmas when she knows it's a lie? I put up Luke's crib the day I heard he was supposedly out of PGN. I looked at that empty crib for 4.5 months. I do regret is that I didn't take a photo of Edwin and Manfred. I'd like to show Luke the heros who made sure he came home to his forever mommy. There is a special place in heaven for Edwin and Manfred; and a special place in my heart for those wonderful men. I wished I'd hired them earlier.
peg
Pamella. I have been reading your comments and can't help but ask if a birth mother's birth certificate is the same as her ID?
We were in Family Court for 11 weeks and within those weeks were notified our birth mothers' ID had expired. This took quite a few weeks to find her and renew her ID.
We have been in PGN for almost a week and our daughter is 10 months.
Please anyone respond.
Marissa
Has anyone ever experienced this? Our dossier has just been translated, poa filed. The abandonment decree was issued several weeks back, the birth certificate was then issued, now the Minors Section of PGN is appealing the abandonment decree. If this happened to you, please post and let me know the outcome and how long it took to be resolved one way or another.
Posted by: C.D. at August 30, 2006 04:33 PMI am jumping up and down! The attorney at the hogar has emailed me and we will wait it out and go forward with our adoption of our son.
It will take some time but that's ok.
If anyone has a suggestion as to where I can get more info on abandonment cases please let me know.
Thank you and I am praying for us to be able to bring our babies home!
Laura Jean
Posted by: Laura Jean at September 1, 2006 12:52 AMI know it's been several months since there have been comments on this article, but I am very interested in getting in touch with Peggy, who commented here on Aug. 30, 2006, regarding her facilitator. Please, Peggy, if you read this, could you contact me via the Guatadopt Forum. Thank you!
Do the children who go thru abandonment court always have to go to hogars/orphanges? This is all such a nightmare and we are so scared at the thought of after 1 year of our process going thru this court. Please anyone with any information about the babies who started in foster care and had to go to abandonment court. Thanks.
Posted by: Melanie at February 10, 2007 06:14 AM