How much longer will Berger be in office? Is there any hope a new president would make a difference?

First of all Susana - as if it needs to be said again (and hopefully you'll see this) - you are an amazing woman and many of us appreicate your work. From one single mom to another, I'm not sure how you have the energy and strength for this but hats off to you! This is not just as an adoptive parent, but for all the family-less kids in Guatemala.

Secondly, I don't understand the comment:
"The deal is that all adoptions must be stopped and the children’s adoptions would be processed – in some years, when they are ruled “adoptable” - according to an adoption law that the president, tired of requesting the Congress to pass the UNICEF proposal, would be passing himself, AS ANOTHER PRESIDENTIAL DECREE."

If I understand this correctly, Berger is trying to pass a decree that is, again, unconstitutional. Is this 'other' presidential decree the same as the decree to reinstate the Hague? Or is this something else that he is trying to pass?

Susana, what does this mean for those of us in process right now? Will PGN use this as an excuse to stop processing cases again, like the 2003 Hague shut down?

Darcy

What does UNICEF have against adoption???? I thought they were supposed to help children!!

Why would President Berger risk felony prosecution by passing a new adoption law through a presidential decree without the support or consent of the Guatemalan Congress? I can't believe the man would be that misguided, and would think that UNICEF would not be supportive of his placing himself in jeopardy of committing a felony by passing a new adoption law in the manner suggested.

What can we do to support Susana and the ADA? They seem to be on the frontlines of this battle and I would think they could use all the assistance we can give them.

Susana,

Thanks again for such insight and willingness to share this knowledge with adoptive parents. It is SO much better than the ages of rumors from agencies.

When is President Berger's term up?

LauraP
mom to Joe-6, Megan-6, and Rosa-23 mo. -- all born in Guatemala

Thank you Susana for your post. Information about this "decree" has been forming itself over the past couple of days.

Can you give us a better idea of "when?" this "God given authority" will be proposed??

We have an idea, but cannot confirm!!

tw

Please tell us what we can do, who we can call, what we should say, etc. The baby we are adopting is in PGN, and this is the scariest thing I could have heard.

How will this affect us in PGN now and going in soon?

Our adoption is complete, but still I am very concerned for those in process, and the poor children who will be affected most. If anyone finds out how we can help, or organizes anything, please keep me in the loop.
Thanks,
Suzanne Gelinskey
ohsuzannah@wi.rr.com

Hi All,
I for one am taking a deep breath and waiting until we get more substantiated news. It's true that the worst can happen but it's also more likely true that this will blow over. There could be some political posturing going on that we might not be privvy to. Kathleen
Re-entered PGN 9/20/06
Mateo is 6 1/2 mos. old

JCICS has just posted this to their list:

"The JCICS Office has confirmed with U.S. government officials that the First Lady’s Protocol of Good Practices will go into effect as an Executive Order on October 1, 2006. Contrary to what the thread of emails on the caucus and members lists have stated, the Executive Order has NO LEGAL effect and cannot be subsituted for current law. U.S. Department of State has confirmed that adoptions were not halted with the Executive Order. Even if that were the case, the Executive Order would have been refuted by the attornies, since an Executive Order is not legislation.

The First Lady’s office is working very closely with the leadership of Joint Council and the U.S. Government. The First Lady’s Executive Order is a warning to attornies that much must change for intercountry adoptions to continue. An Executive Order puts the priority and urgency for best practices in the books and helps to push for legislation that is in the best interest of all children. Guatemala becoming Hague compliant, with ethical practices that safeguard the children, is in the best interest of all parties. Joint Council will continue to work with the First Lady’s office, the attornies and the U.S. government through continued discourse and future delegations to Guatemala. My next trip to Guatemala, through the JCICS International Relations Initiative, will take place October 15 -17th."

Guatadopt is working on clarification of what all this means and will share what we know as soon as we know it.

Kevin
Guatadopt.com

I have never posted a comment before, but I have been checking this site for a while now. First I'd like to thank Kelly and Kevin for the info they provide through this site.

My question is this, I am waiting for BCIS approval in order to receive a referral. Do you think I have a chance? I do so want my daughter to have a sibling from Guatemala. I went through the Hauge mess before and I have to say it was very tough emotionally. I'm going forward no matter what. I have hope, but any words of wisdom would help. Do you think new referrals in the next couple of months have a chance of making it out?

Thanks,
Jean

Thanks for this information.
We are currently on the waitlist to adopt a little girl from Guatemala and are wondering if you would advise us to consider transferring to another country? Our concern is that when we accept our referral, we'll have to pay another $10,000 that wouldn't be reimbursable if our adoption didn't go through and would mean that we wouldn't have funds to adopt from another country. Do you have any advice for us?

Kevin,

JCICS is not well informed. The "protcol of good practices" of the the First Lady is not "a warning to attorneys that much must change for intercountry adoptions to continue". It is in fact the same adoption law proposed by UNICEF that the president and his wife could not get passed by Congress, and it is indeed a hostile takeover of all adoptions in process. In that "protocol/adoption law" , the Secretary of Social Welfare, directed by the First Lady proclaims itself "the only authorized body in Guatemala to process adoptions". There is little mention of who will take care of the children, because they well know that since they will not process any adoptions, the children are the least of their concerns. The protocol is a way to stop adoptions, as it is the goal of UNICEF , which is one of the strings attached to the donation of $28 million that will be used by the current government for everything but for the poor children, who will not see a dime of it. The urgency for money in an elections year does not need to be explained.

It is also not true that the protocol of good practices will become effective on October First. We have first hand information that the president is reconsidering the protocol of good practices (adoption law) and the Hague enforcement, because of the legal consequences that those actions would bring to him personally and the high political cost of violating the Constitution, by-passing the Congress and disregarding the Constitutional Court.

Best regards,
Susana Luarca

I just received the following from my adoption agency: It is urgent that all families contact the US DOS and express your concern that adoptions in Guatemala are in jeopardy. Our US position on Guatemala's compliance with the Hague, has encouraged the president of Guatemala to take action that is in direct conflict with the best interest of homeless children who need to be adopted. This in turn could greatly effect our ability to bring these children home. Please read and respond!!

DOS contact # everyone please start calling ASAP. Get anyone and everyone that you know, contact them whether you are in process or not.

Christopher Lamora
Chief, Intercountry Adoption Unit
Bureau of Consular Affairs
U.S. Department of State
Lamora, Christopher John
202) 663-2928

I'm calling and hope you will too!

I heard the President is trying to put this in affect on October 1st 2006. I am so scared, We are in OGN now. thank you,

Is there anything we can do to stop this from happening. For all the families that are in process now, this would be a heartbreaking situation.

My question is, for those of us in PGN now, is this going to have any impact on us?

I am so confused with all these postings...does this mean all of us in PGN are screwed as of Mon Oct 1st possibly? My agency just sent a letter to all of their families letting us know. I am sitting here crying as I type this knowing that there is a very big possibility that, after a year into the process, 2 visits trips, falling in love with this little baby, 13 weeks in PGN, and now as of Oct 1 adoptions being stopped even if you are already in process? No grandfather clause?

Am I understanding everything correctley?

We are in PGN on the verge of getting kicked out for a typo and a request for a newer dated birth certifucate. We have been in five weeks tomorrow. We would really like to know honestly how this will affect those of us in PGN. Our daughter is no 17 months old and we have been going through this nightmare for almost 15 months now. Willit ever end. Please give us some hope and answers as to what we can really expect.

On my word of honor I will call everyone I know and ask them in turn to call eveyone they know and have people cancel their UNICEF contibutions. How can UNICEF even begin to think that adopting a child (especially from a country like Guatemala that consistently devalues a childs worth) is a bad thing? Do you honestly believe this money will be used to benefit even one childs life in Guatemala?

I just got off the phone with Cris US Dos (Intercountry Adoption Unit) and he said the US has confirmed with Guatemala that adoptions being haulted or stopped is just a rumor. He said that all adoptions will currently proceed as normal. He asked me to notify people to not phone him. I asked him if there is anything we can do, and he simply stated; not at this time.

What a mess, and there is nothing we can do.

Hi All- this may seem like a silly request but could someone explain the whole deal about the Hague in very simple terms and a basic outline of the situation from the start to the current moment. I do consider myself somewhat intelligent but I have not followed all the history around adoptions in Guatemala and feel as though I could use the sixth grade version! : )

Thanks, Megan

I just spoke with Christopher Lamora, DOS- who told me that all of this is just rumors... He said we have NOTHING to worry about- He has been in contact with the Guatemalan government and that Guatemalan adoptions are not in jeopardy. Why am I still so worried? Has anyone else spoken with him?

my agency has confirmed everything that is floating around on this message board. I am so scared!!

I just cancelled my donations to UNICEF.THey asked why?.Because of Guatemala.I urge everyone to do the same.

Gus

Folks -

There is, in fact, an Executive Order (whether signed or not). It is uncomprehensible why DOS would have the audacity to use the term "rumor" if in fact, Mr. Lamaro used that term. That is irresponsible and leads me to believe their intent is to dismiss other information presented directly to the people who PROCESS our adoptions. Rumors are unsubstantiated...THIS EXECUTIVE ORDER HAS BEEN CONFIRMED. If it is just a "THREAT" then DOS should say...it is just a threat.

Backing up, what has NOT been substantiated is whether it will go into effect and when...as Susana said, the President realizes that this could have very serious personal consequences because it bypasses Congress illegally.

Even if the Executive Order is found illegal...it *could* cause substantial delays if enacted...

Its possible that DOS has communicated with the President's office and he has told them that it will not go into effect...but calling it "rumor" is misleading and irresponsible.

Mary,

I know you're worried, I'm worried, too, but let's not cancel our UNICEF's contributions just yet. It feels so odd to be on the bad side of UNICEF, but let's try to see what's going on in context. We all--especially those of us in the middle of the process--need to balance our desire for reforms that will ultimately protect our children with our desire to bring our babies home. UNICEF is also digging wells, cleaning water, feeding, educating...doing so much that governements (even our own) aren't doing. While I'm at odds with them on the adoption issue because I just want my son home, I understand that we're all a part of something bigger and more complicated.

I hope we all get some good, calm news soon!
Joanna

Shana... I'm like you... I'm worried even though Chris from the Dept of State, Intercountry Adoption Unit told me too that it was only a rumor.

Shana, I just got off the phone with Christopher Lamora and he reassured me that this is all a rumor and that nothing is going into effect on Oct.1st. But I wasn't very reassured! and am still worried as well. Nancy

What are the chances that this order will not be signed and will not go into effect?

IMPORTANT INFO!!!!! I just received a voicemail from Christopher Lamora, DOS. This is the message he left: NOTHING is going on differently in Guatemala. It is an UNFOUNDED rumor. They believe it was started by someone opposed to the Hague Convention from the beginning and is just trying to stir things up. They have talked to people very high up in the Guatemalan government. Guatemala is NOT planning on instituting a moratorium on adoptions anytime in the near future. If they did institute the Hague Convention in the future, they would not do so at the snap of a finger. There would be well advanced notice and they would have the people in place to do so. He asked me to please post this on the list so as to calm people down and not get worked up. Again, it is an UNFOUNDED RUMOR. He advises us to stay calm. This is straight from the voicemail I received today. The knots in my stomach are easing, that's for sure. PLEASE tell others that it is an UNFOUNDED rumor.

When I mentioned to Mr. Lamora that the First Lady reportedly signed the Executive Order last night, he said,"I don't know if she signed anything or not- I wasn't there"... but then proceeded to try to convince me that we had nothing to worry about....

I have been in PGN since mid July and was kicked out 9/11 and re-entered 9/13. I hear this news today about adoptions being stopped and I think I may lose my mind. Can't Barrios just sign off all cases he has now so that we don't have our children waiting years to come home? I am just so sick I could scream. I just got home from a visit trip. My agency is trying to find out more facts but is also very scared.

Kim. I have been reading your timline in the PGN, we too, have been in for 5 weeks as of today. Please email me in private @ premier@wcoil.com. I would like to talk to you regarding PGN.
Thanks.

Ok what does the Executvie order state ? no one is saying ? does anyone know ? why bring up things that you don't fully understand ? It could mean absolutely nothing.

Ok what does the Executvie order state ? no one is saying ? does anyone know ? why bring up things that you don't fully understand ? It could mean absolutely nothing.

I found this post.

September 28, 2006
The U.S. Department of State has published the following announcement:

Government of Guatemala Efforts to Implement the Hague Adoption Convention - False Rumor that Guatemala will halt adoptions

The Department of State and the U.S. Embassy in Guatemala have become aware of an unfounded rumor that adoptions in Guatemala will be suspended immediately or by January 1 as part of Guatemalan efforts to implement the 1993 Hague Convention on Protection of Children and Co-operation in Respect of Intercountry Adoption ("the Hague Adoption Convention"). The government of Guatemala has confirmed that there is no truth to this rumor. The Embassy is continuing to process adoption cases.

The Department of State and the U.S. Embassy continue to monitor the situation in Guatemala closely and are in regular contact with Guatemalan officials as they take steps to reform their adoption processes in order to better protect the interests of children and families. We are encouraged by the efforts of the First Lady of Guatemala in preparing a protocol of adoption best practices that promotes protections for children and families in line with the international standards of the Hague Adoption Convention. The Department urges all interested parties to check our website (www.travel.state.gov) for updates on the process of adoptions in Guatemala. For more information on Guatemala and Hague Adoption Convention implementation efforts, please see the Department's Notices and frequently asked questions on Guatemala at http://travel.state.gov/family/adoption/notices/notices_2859.html and http://www.travel.state.gov/family/adoption/notices/notices_2858.html.

Rumor? Threat? What does it all mean? We are in PGN. I am so afraid we will be prevented from completing our adoption after coming so far.

We are out of PGN as of yesterday. I hope this means we are safe, but our good friends, and countless others, are behind us in the process and we are horrified by these reports/rumors. I went to the unicef website and searched for Guatemala. The country profile, found here: http://www.unicef.org/infobycountry/guatemala.html

paints a grim picture for Guatemalan children. I think we all need to contact UNICEF and make them aware that we do not support their actions in the Guatemalan adoption process.

Pat

This whole thing is such an injustice to the children being adopted, the families adopting and like myself, extended family. I have already bonded with the beautiful baby my daughter and her husband have named Lucy. We've been getting pictures of her since she was 1 week old and she's now 7 months old. The children that will be her sibbling are so upset and frightened that they won't be getting "their sister". I don't understand a lot of the political things that are going on there, or the whole process of the adoption process. However, I do know the affect it's had on my daughter and her family. I'm sure by reading the other postings that many others are going through the same emotional roller coaster. Guatamala needs to get their act together and be greatful that their are wonderful people, regardless of what country they're from, that are willing to adopt and love these children, that they de-value.
My prayers are with all of you,

Thanks Kelly...

I totally agree! I personally spoke to Chris at DOS (Department of State) and he used the word 'rumor'. I agree... it is not an rumor. The EXECUTIVE ORDER is real... the US is stating it is illegal and won't go into effect. However... EVERYONE should take this seriously!

I think it would help all waiting families if a CLEAR definition of "the cases already started will be allowed to finish according to the old system." as posted yesterday. There are a lot of concerend families so a good look at this might alleviate much anxiety. Can anything be done about getting an answer about this? I personnally know two families waiting to bring children home. Our agency has about 20 cases pending. I just thank God our son came home before all of this, but my heart goes out to all who wait and now have this terrible worry.

Folks - We do not post unfounded rumors.

The dismissal from DOS concerns me almost as much as the threat of the Executive Order. But one thing that needs to be made very clear: DOS does not control the government of Guatemala.

I am very hopeful that this all means that the EO will not go into effect.

Please refresh the main screen and review what I wrote. I don't think we need to rehash DOS's statement that it was a rumor.

Also, please note that we cannot at this time get a reading into the crystal ball. We can give you information about what has happened (and frankly, even failed attempts should be noted to adoptive parents so they understand the political issues with the adoption system in Guatemala). What parents need to do (Even if it is just in spirit) is remain your child's advocate. It is very clear that during these political decisions, the children will not be well represented by those with the most political persuasiveness.

Lisa - where abouts did you find that post on www.travel site ?

Kelly-
What does the executive order state ?
-Jake

All I can say is Mr. Berger still is anxious to get his hands on those millions of dollars that UNICEF is throwing out in front of him! Ughh!

folks, do you really think The Berger's would take that money and create a CA or give that money to the building of adequate orphanages and homes for children???

Think again... do some research on latin america's history and read the countless stories of dictators, president's etc who embezzle money and basically leave the people, their country starving...... is Pre. Berger any different? I hope so.... but I wouldn't count on it!

I am concerned by those who are supportive of UNICEF -- folks please please do your research. UNICEF is not about helping children find loving safe homes... they are about keeping them in their country without a hope of a future.
Do your research - UNICEF has been pressuring Guatemala to close down adoptions for years.......

Apparently the Bergers' still have their eye on that money bag........

Praying for all you in process,
gloria
mom to 5 Guatemalan blessings

I thought I would send some HAPPY NEWS to this site. We just got word that we're OUT of PGN today. This is our 5th week since we entered. There is light at the end of the tunnel!!!!
Our family will continue to pray for the families and those receiving their referrals.
God is totally in control and he will not allow adoptions to be completely be stopped, because he created everyone and God has promised to never leave or forsake us.
MCS

You know...I was just thinking....

how many orphanages and work programs and medical missions we could support with $28,000,000....

Its so sad that I can name dozens of small organizations struggling to help orphaned children, but they would never see a dime from UNICEF who collected money with a child's face on it!

Jake,

It was posted on the JCICS Board.

Lisa

This is totally unbelievable. I have been in PGN since 7/20 k/o and resubmitted 8/17. Let these children come home. I have been afraid since I got my referral....and it keeps getting worse. Enough already!!!

When we adopted our third child in 2004, I learned about UNICEF's complete and total opposition to international adoption. I stopped donating any money to them and sent them a letter. Now I donate to Doctors Without Borders and other organizations that provide real benefit to children in Guatemala and other countries. Now, everytime I send a check to an organization, I write to UNICEF and tell them why I did not donate to them.

Paz,
Jill

I'm probably just dreaming... but is there anyway that (if not halted)these threats would cause FC and PGN to "rush" the existing cases through. Or is it more likely that these government agencies would be pressured to delay those in process? Anyone "in the know" have thoughts on this?

Congratualations on getting out of PGN...5 weeks IS lightening speed. For some of us that "light at the end of the tunnel" has not been reached in months upon months and years upon years, yet we have faith. I know you mean well so thank you for your prayers.
God IS in control BUT do have to remember that there continues to be pain in this world and those that weep. Adoptions may stop. My prayer is that it wont. My heart hurts especially for the children in Guatemala...and so some of us may be "out" but there are many children there who have not joined their forever homes. MORE IMPORTANTLY there are many future children who, if problems continue, may not have the option of having a forever family. These are the things that should wiegh heavily on our hearts and we should take in the gravity of it in our prayers.
Jennifer Van Wieren
(in process since May 04, trying to adopt Gabbie for 16 months, in PGN 9 months)

My support to those waiting. I am willing to help in anyway to support those working to keep adoptions open. Susanna, thank you for sharing the information. We still have hope.

OK, I am starting to get a little freaked out! We are just in the beginning of the process. We received our referral on August 7th & we are just in the beginning of the process! Will our hopes & dreams suddenly come to a hault with all of this? I am hoping someone can provide some reassurance, some concrete information, that can put all our minds at ease!!!!

I can't find the above posted message dated September 28 on the State Department's web site. However, if the above is correct, the US government is "encouraged by the First Lady's protocol of adoption best practices that promotes protections for children and families in line with the international standards of the Hague Adoption Convention." This protocol is exactly the "rumored" executive order that this posting is claiming is a "false rumor!"

Let's not forget two things:
1. The US intends to treat Guatemala as a Hague country, and the US will implement the Hague sometime in 2007. The US would also prefer that Guatemala, and not Venezuela, become a member of the UN security council.

2. Wendy Berger has indicated past support for a UNICEF backed proposal for a new adoption law in Guatemala. Susana has said that Sra. Berger's new "protocol" is essentially this same law disquished as a potential Presidential Executive Order. UNICEF is promising $28 million to Guatemala contingent on having an adoption process they like--that is to say NO inter-country adoption.

Beth in MN

Unicef is UN run operation. Where do you think the money comes from? You don't need to send anymore than the tax money you already sent.

Although I have not talked to the DOS guy myself, I have a different interpretation of the DOS notice. It seems to me that DOS is not saying that the exeuctive order is a "rumor." I think that DOS is saying that it is a rumor that Guatemalan adoptions will be suspended/halted on some day certain because of the executive order. Maybe that doesn't make sense in light of what the executive order says. I don't know as I have not read the executive order myself. And, maybe the point is that DOS cannot predict what's going to happen to Guat. adoptions b/c of the executive order. In any event, I just wanted to put another interpretation out there.

Anne,

I share your concerns. I have wondered all day if what the DOS is saying is a 'rumor' is the fact that adoptions will halt, not that it is a 'rumor' that there is an executive order out there waiting to be signed.

Of course I am sure the First Lady would tell you that if they implement the EO that adoptions won't 'halt', it's just that her office will have complete control over them. In other words...'technically' they won't stop, but in reality we all know that they will.

I hope I am way wrong here....

I'm with you Becky... I think that Chris at the DOS (Dept of State) probably meant that adoptions stopping was a rumor. However, I personally talked to him and he down played the entire subject and said 'it is a rumor and to please tell everyone it is just a rumor.' I asked if there was anything I could do to express my concern about the situation and he said 'yes, please notify everyone it is a rumor.'. So at the end of the day, I had a lot of disappointment in Chris' comments to me. I'm sure he was trying to stop a widespread panic, however, we have a right to know what is going on and a right to voice our opinion.

Kelly Ann,
Did he specifically say that the Executive Order was a rumor, or that adoptions halting is a rumor?

As I understand it, the EO doesn't say anything about adoptions stopping....what it does say is that adoptions will be taken over by a different office and only they will be able to process adoptions...so the questions remains...is there an executive order, has it been signed, or not?

I think that if it had been signed Susanna would have posted that information. I truly hope the President is rethinking his decision. I just wish the DOS would be more frank in answering the 'real' question here...

My husband and I had hoped to adopt from Guatemala. Is it even worth starting the process now? We just contacted an agency with our wishes this week?

EVEN IF this crazy thing is enacted on October 1st.....what if I already have pink for october 10th?? Will I still get my baby since I am already done with the Guatemalan side????

Just wanted to post to all those following PGN outs. MY agency said that a family who went in on 8/17 just got out of PGN. Hopefully it is still moving and hasn't halted yet!!!!! Lisa B.

Monica, you've been in 5 weeks now. Have you heard anything about getting out of PGN? Let me know. Lisa

I think each one of us, waiting for our children to come home, needs to be in earnest prayer this weekend, as we face the unknown concerning bringing home our Guatemalan babies. When we see no way out of a hopeless situation, the Lord has a thousand solutions to our difficulties. HE can move mountains! Let's pray, that in some way, this causes the process to be sped up and more children are brought home to their forever families. This truly is very upsetting.

You can see the rumor posting/denial at travel.state.gov Select the "children & family" section, then select "important notices" under the International Adoption section.

Hi Lisa,

I spoke to the agency yesterday & received the same information as you. Familes within our agency that had entered 8/17 & 8/18 got out yesterday. They are hoping we will hear something today or next week. Next Friday will be 6 weeks. How about you?
Prayers for all of us,
Monica

Hi Monica, I'm so glad the threat was withdrawn. God has answered our prayers, after all he wants us to take care of the children and less fortunate! I went in PGN on Sept. 6. I haven't heard anything yet. You will probably get out before me, so keep me posted. Prayers to all of us in this nightmare!! Lisa B.

I have been in PGN since 8/17. Haven't heard anything yet. HOPEFULLY next week.

Lisa,
We went in 9/6 also. Keep praying. Almost 4 weeks now.
Margaret

Hi Margaret, Who is your agency? Where are you from? It's neat to see someone with our same PGN time. What is your timeline from start to now? Good luck and prayers for our and your speedy exit. Keep me posted! Thanks, Lisa B.

Lisa,
I am from NJ.
Our daughter was born 5/20/6 and we received our referal 5/30. Accepted it 6/1. DNA match complete at the end of July. Family court date 8/14. Entered PGN 9/6, like you.
Can we list agencies here on this site?
I think our time frame so far is moving well. Who knows what is going on now in PGN...just waiting and shopping!
Margaret

Yeah, let's do cancel our donationn to UNICEF. I don't care how mnay wells they dig--they oppose bringing my son (and thousands of other orphans) home from a 3rd world country where he does not have enought to eat. They will NEVER receive a nickel of my money. Shame on UNICEF for denying inncocent children loving homes.