Do you think travel in a month or two will be possible? What if we, as the adoptive parents, are going to foster the child. Does this affect that possiblity?

what if we are leaving soon for pickup ??

Is this true for embassy appointments...to take our children home? Or just visitation?
Margaret

What are your thoughts on pick-up trips? Do we stay in GC or try stay in Antigua? What about taking our other older children with us on pick-up? We will be picking up shortly and this has me very worried.

To All:

From what I understand, this only applies to visits. If you are there to take your child home, you are far enough into the process and would have all of the necessary "final" papers. I would still be cautious and work with your agency to provide you with emergency numbers, etc. for your pick-up visit.

Thank you kelly for the update on things in Guatemala.

I do have a question - it seems to me that there are some in the guat govt that are grabbing at anything to get guat adoptions to stop or halt them or just cause problems.

Do you feel this is true?

This incidence along with the recent threat of an "exec. order" just seems to me as being another way to stop what is in place.. just seems like a lot of negative publicity for ICA in guatemala.

Your thoughts?

Gloria
mom to 5 Guatemalan blessings

Kelly,

First of all I woudl like to thank you very much for all the hard work you put into this site. It is a blessing for all of us going through this process. Whenever I hear a rumor or a rumbling, I check with you. Thank you for always having the facts and laying them out in a simple and informative manner. I APPRECIATE YOU VERY MUCH!

What are your thoughts on the adoption process right now? Just your personal views knowing what you know? It's pretty scary right now and our agency is telling us, we don't know anything only rumors.

In your professional and personal opinion do you think adoptions will cease (or basically slow down like Costa Rica) very soon?

Thanks,
Sally

Our daughter and son-in-law left for Guatemala City on Tuesday (October 17) - they arrived safely that evening. They were to receive their daughter on Wednesday (October 18)at 6:30 - we have heard nothing from them and after reading the posts - I am worried from them and our granddaughter. Is there any more news of what is going on down there?

There seems to be a number of different experiences that people are posting about ... some of the posts claim as "certain" that the FM's are being harassed, that attorney's are concerned, Et.Cet. Then there are the posts from people actually arriving in GC and visiting their babies now, and reporting no problems, just the usual "stay at the hotel" sort of advice.

Just my 2 cents, but until all this plays out and we have some **Substantive** item to rely on, my wife and I are on the plane this coming Mondady to visit our daughter.

Now what happens, the parents that are in PGN are they going to be able to bring their babies/children home? Or is this going to affect their adoption procedures? What is our American Embassy doing down there to help the American families that are there to visit or bring back their babies to the US? If there is a PETITION TO SIGN, Please Post It on this Web sight so we all can sign it and send it to our Government. I think that would be the best way to get all the parents/grandparents involved in this matter. Maybe this would wake up the Guatemalan Government into letting the children go. For God sake something has to be done this whole thing is getting scary not only for the PARENTS to be but for the Foster Mothers, and most of all the Babies/Children. What will happen if we do nothing, everyone loses especially the Babies....

I just wanted to check and see if anyone has called the agency to see if it is going to affect us that are in PGN? My agency I am going through is EAC. Is anyone else using this agency?

Jean-I agree. We have to do SOMETHING. Thru the whole process I have waited, remained calm, etc. At this point I am tired of feeling like a crimal because we are opening our hearts and home to an orphan. I am ready to write, call, fax whomever. We can make a difference if all of us work together to get some resolution to this issue.

Jamie

Dear Kelly,

Thank you so verymuch for the continued excellant info for the past 17 mo. we have been in process. Please email me the answer to the posts from Jean Brown 10/19/06 @9:20AM and Sally 10/19/06@12:17AM. They are the same qustions I have.

Thanks bunchesKelly!

Alexis

Anyone have any updates? I am supposed to go over Thanksgiving and am hoping this will "blow over" so I can go visit my little girl. It is devastating for there to be no DNA testing, no dr. appts, no photos, and no visits!!!!! Would appreciate ANY updates whatsoever.

I think everyone should contact their agency or lawyer and get accurate details. These are here say details and rumors REMEMBER that

I appreciate the updates and the ability to participate in the forum. However I think more information is necessary for a posting like this. The readers of this site are primed for anxiety and fear. For a strong statement like this one (i.e. no visitation, danger to the children etc) there needs to be more substantive information. For example, how many reports of police harassment have occurred? Which hotels? How did the hotel managment handle the situation(s)? Who is reporting this info? Are they reliable sources? Is there a copy of the Directive? What do the lawyers in Guatemala have to say?...etc.

Considering that our trip was suppose to be tomorrow and these incidents occurred just the other day at the hotel I was to stay at is a strong enough statement for me. Both the agency and the local attorney researched the details of the situation, determined that the situation was real and then advised us to postpone our trip.

I never would have forgiven myself had I taken the trip only to see the foster mother get detained outside of the hotel with the possibility that the authorities take our soon-to-be son. It could then take a few weeks to clear up the situation before he is returned to the foster mother. That's not a good situation for anyone, particularly the child. I would encourage everyone to be mindful of that.

Now, we could have decided to go against the advice of our agency and the attorney and maybe nothing would have happened. However, we just couldn't risk potentially putting our son at risk.

In my opinion, the best thing to do at this point is contact your Senator or Representative. Let them know what is going on and put pressure on the state department to act to protect our interest.

I forwarded the e-mail from my agency to my representative and there is a staffer in ther trying to find out what is going on. The only way to help ourself is get our elected officials involved.

Folks -

There have been many things that float around the rumor mill that never make the site because Kevin or myself (or other Guatadopt writers) can't verify them. I spent a good portion of the day on the phone long distance to Guatemala yesterday talking to folks that had read the Directive and getting a feel of the current situation. There was a meeting yesterday morning at 9AM where officials and attorneys discussed the implications of the Directive and their fears that it was related to the harrassment rumors. We waited for the conclusion of the meeting before we posted. But the fact remains that a number of attorneys and agencies were still concerned about visitation (and some have restricted it altogether). I have no problem supporting their decision since they are IN Guatemala and are much more experienced with adoption issues than the adoptive parent. Considering the language, the timing and the reports from Guatemala, *I* felt that casual visitation travel might not be a good idea right now. To me, its irrelevant HOW many parents have witnessed an event that could have happened in the front of a hotel with minimal disturbance. Foster mother harrassment is not a "new" thing. It has certainly happened from time to time in the 4 years I have been running this site. I've seen several cases where an adoption was disrupted because of a "raid" on an orphanage/foster home or a foster mother being detained and the child being held in a state orphanage until it is cleared up with the courts MONTHS later (even when the paperwork was in order). What concerns me is the "chance" that police are still using this Directive and the possibility that an adoption could be jepordized because of a "chance" encounter with the police.

One thing that is very hard to do with this site...and I have discussed with our writers and sources, when do you post information that is NOT good? When is it relevant and when is it alarmist? If there had not been the reports of harrassment or the attorneys had not been alarmed or felt that the existence of such a document was threatening to the families' cases, I'm not sure we would have posted about it ESPECIALLY after it had been rescended.

Going back to the Hague scare of 2003, parents were not sure why their adoptions were taking so long. Was the agency telling the truth? Was the attorney slacking off? We felt that it was helpful to act as "back-up" for the information that they were receiving or NOT receiving from their agencies. OUR sources are several reliable agencies, attorneys, organizations, orphanages, charities etc. who are very active in Guatemala adoptions.

So lets go back to the simply facts that can be easily verified (but often not publicized). The US Department of State has stated clearly that unless Guatemala conforms to Hague compliant processes, they will not allow adoptions from Guatemala...this is said to be when the US is "ready" to implement the Hague themselves (sometime in 2007). There have been SEVERAL law proposals backed by the current administration to become Hague compliant. They have failed to pass Congress because of Constitutional issues.

Unfortunately, we believe that future adoptions from Guatemala are AT RISK. We do not believe in candy-coating the issues...One only has to go back and read the postings during the attempted Hague implementation of 2003 to understand why we are concerned.

Boy, does history repeat itself? This sounds like exactly what happened 3 years ago during the first Hague mess. And I'm adopting again during this current situation! In my humble opinion, it's your agencies responsibility to inform you as whether to visit or not to visit. As much as we want to hold our future children, we have to realize how scared the foster families must feel knowing they could be detained by the police. It's alot different in Guatemala than here in the U.S.

Kelly,

I, for one, appreciate ANY information, whether it be good or bad. My agency did not communicate this information with me until I contacted them and asked about it. This website has been a Godsend.
Thank you

My husband and I were planning to visit 2 children on 10/23 We are currently in family court. Our agency has advised us not to go right now and we will heed that advise. Yes, we are disappointed, but remember what each family is trying to obtain in the long run, a child/children.

If you think about the advance visit process, we would not allow any non U.S. citizen who has NOT been approved by the U.S. to come into the U.S. and have an unsupervised visit with a child. Dateline or Nightline would be all over this story.

Secondly, we all are hugely indebted to our foster parents and attorneys who have opened their hearts and arms to our children. I wouldn't want anything to occur to harm any foster parents (or attorneys) or do anything that would make foster parents not want to offer their services in the future.

Patience and calm are warranted as the situation plays out.

I smell UNICEF in all of this. They have been out to shut down Guatemala for years. JMHO

I just returned from a visit trip (10/15-10/18). Although the rumored children's "raid" at the Marriott never happened, everyone staying at the Westin had to return their children to the foster parents. (A lobby filled with tears to say the least.) Outside the Marriott there were police everywhere in clusters of 4-5 and we were definitely subjects of interest (we did not have the child with us). I couldn't help but notice a little boy about seven polishing shoes outside the McDonalds about a block from the Marriott. The police walked by him without so much as a glance. Is this the life they'd prefer for these children we are anxious to love?

I've sent an E-mail to one of our Senators today asking for help with our problems. Iam providing the Web Sight for all of you to contact your Represenatives in Congress. Here it is,
WWW.visi/com/juan/congress/
I hope this works for all of us.
Let us all pray that this issue is resolved soon and not next year...

I've contacted a Senator asking him to help with our problem. I gave him the web sight to check for him self as to what is going on down there. I will provide you all with the web sight to contact your Senators/Represenatives. Here it is...
WWW.vis/com/juan/congress/ Hope this works. Let us pray that they can do something to help us

We've thought about visiting our daughter but in the group home, rather than trying to take her back to the hotel with us and risk all these issues. If this plan is acceptable to our attorney & the foster home, would you still advise us against visiting in this way at this time? (we're planning to go just before Christmas).

Thanks for your help; this site is wonderful!

Ed Sharp

This is way, way off topic, but too wonderful not to share. Someone posted this link to a wonderful song on a Yahoo group today.

It’s called “When Love Takes You In”, sung by Christian recording artist Steven Curtis Chapman.

Just go to this address, and it should start to play the video right away: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=demRHgul2Zk

Gregg (and Esperanza, and our baby Marilu)

My husband and I were going to leave in two weeks to visit our son. However, after reading the posting and speaking with our agency, I could not risk any harm to our son or his wonderful foster mother. Has any head, is this slowing up any family court procedure? As soon as the embassy releases the DNA we are out of family court and now in PGN. I will keep all of you in our prayers.

I greatly appreciate this website as well. Good or bad, we all need to hear and then make up our minds. When I first read about the suspensions of visitations to Guatemala, I was very upset and panic set in even though I don't have a trip planned. However, after some thought, this just might be a good thing. Think about it. The Guatemala President doesn't seem to care about these poor children or the poor people of Guatemala. If all Americans and other adoptive parents from other countries quit traveling to Guatemala for one month, think of what that would do to their economy. No visitors, nobody in the airports, no taxis, nobody in the hotels, nobody in the restaurants, nobody in the shops, nobody buying from vendors on the street. That way it's hitting the people who HAVE money. It might just send a message that if the Guatemala President and others want to stop adoptions, then their economy will take a huge hit. I took a trip to Guatemala City in July. Also went to Antigua. I personally spent close to $2000 on my trip for four days. Imagine...everyone stopping for one month! Do you think then the business owners and other people will put pressure on this government to move adoptions along. Yes, they need to be legal. Yes, they need to stop fraud. How are some people getting their babies in four months! But don't let the innocent babies suffer. Don't harass the wonderful foster families who are taking care of these babies. I also agree that if this site can start a petition for everyone to sign and send a clear message to OUR government that they need to do something and soon. Pam

Kate

What are you referring to in your comment, "I smell UNECEF in all this."

My wife and I are curious. We are trying to do some research to understand all this unrest down there. We have found a lot out about the history and the Hague diagreement, but don't know about the UNICEF views.

Hey All-I deeply understand your fustration. But to state that there is fraud because "some people are getting their babies in four months", is overly simplistic. I have strongly advocated over the pass year the need to reseaarch state-licensed agencies who work with USEmbassy approved hogars/directors in Guatemala, along with USEmbassy approved Guatemalan lawyers. The process when done legally and all paperwork done and picked up in a timely manner by lawyers and their counselors, with no red flags over any document or parental persuasion evident, allows the case to procede quickly. I have read post after post of lawyers taking weeks, even months to bring the case to the USEmbassy for appoval, then waiting weeks to pick it up, when the turn around is only a couple of days, and then the same pattern for Family Court and then the PGN. Documents have to have no red flags. But it is those red flags that cause concern to those working and investigating at the Family Court and in the PGN. Also, it might be helpful to change your vocabulary that would incur more resentment from the people of Guatemala. Americans, or the tons of Europeans and Australians that also adopt( and for the record don't seem to incur the same level of resentment that Americans get), "don't get babies", but families are found for children who need a family. Let's all together encourage a positive multicultural understanding of your child's Latino customs and procedures. This would not only benefit all of us, but the future children awaiting to be united with a family. Marie

Dave, for info about Unicef's harmful positions on intercountry adoptions, check out the Families Without Borders site. Not sure if I can post a link here, so if it doesn't work, just Google the name. http://www.geocities.com/familieswithoutborders

Marie,

What a beautiful way to remind parents about what the end is all about. Being mindful of language, customs and cultures has been so important for our family once our daughter arrived home, but thinking about it throughout the process, regardless of the difficulty, is also key. Thanks for the gentle reminder.

Nora

Hi, I am just wondering if there are any parents who just recently returned. Did they have any problems, is the harrasment continuing? I am just so worried about our son and his foster mother. I guess I am just needing more information.

I returned yesterday. I was staying at The Westin and was one of the parents whose baby was taken and returned to the foster Mom. Was I scared...yes, I was. Did I feel safe at the hotel? Once my baby was safe, I did. Was I worried for my baby and the FMom? Terrified! We all just wanted our babies safe, and if it meant getting them back to their safe place in unmarked cars with darkened windows, then we did what we had to do. I did not see police in the hotel, nor did I see anyone lurking around outside. Our babies were brought back the next day, with no new restrictions; we did not have to keep them in our rooms or out of the public hotel areas. The hotel had heightened security, I did defintely notice this. They even questioned people going outside to the pool area as to where they were staying.

I think our agency did a wonderful job in getting our babies to a safe place immediately and making sure that we were protected as well. I think the Westin also did a great job in keeping us safe.

Too many rumors have flown over this, too many PAP's have been left in the dark to wonder what happened or may still be happening and whether or not their little ones and their Guatemalan foster families are OK. PLEASE contact your agency for information and updates, and PLEASE don't pass on a rumor that you may have heard from someone who heard it from someone else. Trust Kelly and Kevin's information-it's as accurate as what I experienced while there.

After reading all this, I am concern for my sister is going down to do the fostering herself. She has been in PGN for 6 wks now with no word. I am worry for her but understand her need to see her son. Any word as what is going on? I am praying for everyone who is waiting to hear news on their child.

I am suppose to travel for my visit trip this coming Monday. Has anyone heard any new news?

We have not had any more reports of harrassment. I did want to clarify since several folks have used the term "raid" on the hotel in other forums. I am not aware of a time where the police have "raided" the hotel...ie: Uniformed officers entered the hotel to harrass individuals or to go room to room. The only instances that I have heard reported have been where foster mothers were detained on the way to the hotel (in front, near, or as she was leaving her residence). This has happened from time to time at different hotels and I reiterate that it is not something new. Yes, there have been "raids" on orphanges and homes from complaints of "crib houses"...but I am not aware of a raid (as I described above) on a hotel. On a whole, I think its rare.

That being said, I believe the circulation of a copy of this Directive was quite frightening to attorneys and agencies and prompted them to halt visitations. I am sure to the impromptu halt to visits caused a lot of stress to parents staying at the hotels at the time.

As it stands, we have been told that the Directive that caused so much tension is NOT in effect and visits SHOULD technically be fine (ie: I really can't predict what might happen week to week). However, since a number of agencies emailed their clients about the issues and have halted visitation, I think anyone intending to visit needs to talk about it WITH their agency.

As a side note: During our adoption, we were not allowed to keep our little girl at the hotel (we were only allowed a couple of hours with her). At the time, I wished we had more time with her...but looking back, it did enable us to tour Antigua and see the country. Though I have been back several times, that first trip endeared me even more to Guatemala. I wish that more parents would tour the country and get a better perspective before they enter the adoption process...

I got this information today from my representative. It sounds like this has all blown over for now.

Embassy officials met with hotel security personnel both Wednesday and Thursday, October 18 and 19. There is no indication that police are harassing people connected with adoptions, and certainly not raiding hotels frequented by American citizen adopting parents.

We understand that there are plenty of rumors, but the apprehension we have heard comes from prospective adoptive parents and local adoption service providers, none of whom have reported to us that they have actually been victims or seen any such actions themselves. One hotel reported to us that an American couple with a child did report being approached by a policeman outside the hotel, but the policeman did not attempt to stop them or follow them when they returned to the hotel grounds.

The Embassy sees no reason to suspend any visit to Guatemala or to postpone any medical appointments. We will continue to monitor the situation carefully, and will post on our Embassy website any information we develop with regard to these issues.

If you are planning your trip to Guatemala, please review the information on traveling in Guatemala available at http://guatemala.usembassy.gov/information_for_travelers.html. The Consular Information Sheet is updated regularly and is the most complete information we have available on safety in Guatemala. While most travelers enjoy trips to Guatemala without incident, you should realize that the crime rate is much higher and the level of police protection much lower than what you may be accustomed to in the United States. The Embassy is in regular contact with the major hotels in Guatemala City frequented by adopting families regarding security issues. Should you have a problem during your visit, you may contact the Embassy during business hours at (502) 2326-4405, or after hours at (502)2331-2354.

Thank you, Kelly, and all who have posted news about this situation in Guatemala. I have tried to get information from my agency, but haven't heard one word from them (it's been a week since I contacted them). Thank you for being an informed link for those of us who are concerned but feel disconnected. Without your website, we might have walked into a "situation". We are not criminals; we are not there to be victims of harassment and shake-downs; we are there to accept a child in need into our families.

hello,
i arrived 10/18 in Antigua to foster my son. i did stay indoors until i had guardianship papers. i have had no trouble at all in Antigua, we go out daily, everyone is friendly and helpful. it is a beautiful city and i would recommend staying here. there are plenty of adoptive moms here. my prays and blessings to everyone.