i don't know how to feel when i read this

i so hope it is not a bad thing - but i remain unsure as to what it is really saying ...

i hope it does not affect in process cases negatively and i hope it allows future cases to progress in a workable way

I'm finding this unclear? It is also alot sooner then we expected any legislature to be implemented. I understand there is a need for this, but does anyone know how this will impact those of us in process, especially early in process?

I wouldn't take it to mean much of anything. So long as the DOS is telling people to stay away from Guatemala, it doesn't much matter what JCICS thinks about progress or lack thereof. DOS has the final say when they decide whether or not to hand that visa packet over...

I'm guessing that the Protocol will be amended before it goes before Congress. Erik

I agree with all of the comments made above -- simply we continue with our confusing journey hoping there is light at the end of this tunnel.
If we ought to believe our legislation process here, will be interesting to see how many hoops this has to go thru before calling this "a law."
An abrupt shut down by denying a thousands of angels with good, honest, and capable families and love -- I hope God is on our side.

I spoke with our attorney today in Guatemala and was told that the "manual of good practices" would be implemented next week. I asked her if it was still a good idea to proceed in Guat with adoption and she seemed hopeful but said "this is going to be a real fight but its one we can win" so with that in mind we will see what happens. She said no one ever knows what tomorrow holds for Guat adoptions but that if it was her she would feel confident in adoptions be completed but with just a longer timeline for the extra scrutiny.

I don't think this means we will be seeing changes all that soon. The legislative process in Guatemala can be as long as it is here. The press release says that legislation will be "introduced" next week. How long it takes to pass and be implemented is anyone's guess.

My prayer is that any reform really does improve the system and protects the children, even if it causes delays. We can all hope that our own processes are not interrupted, but we should be careful to not to over-react to anything at this point. It's been a crazy March and so far the only result has been no real change yet.

As Kevin said, this does not mean that everything's OK now immediately, but I do think it is a very positive step. The bottom line is that Guatemala HAS to start reform legislation for adoptions to the US to continue. The fact that their Congress is going to begin working on it so soon seems to me to be a good sign, indicating that they DON'T want American adoptions of Guatemalan children to stop.

The legislative process allows time for more voices to be heard. I am sure the ADA and other groups in Guatemala will lobby for legislation that is Hague-compliant but not bad for children and families like the Protocolo.

Even with the extreme, hysterical warnings of the DOS, the one thing they have NOT said is that they will shut down adoptions on the US side anytime soon. The fact that Guatemala is going to begin working on legislation ought to be very positive in the eyes of the DOS. Personally, I think this is exactly what needed to happen, and hopefully the legislation will work well for birth parents, adoptive parents and most importantly the children.

Here's to hope that the Guatemalan congress can work out something good.

Here we go again, huh. I guess the only thing I keep trying to remember is that both sides move slowly. I feel that for those of us in the process, it probably will slow it down but we will probably get out...with some headaches.

But from what I am reading, even if something is announced, think how long implementation truly does take.

I certainly hope that this is not the Protocol which we hear so much about....

Its important to keep in mind that JCICS's Board of Directors consists of the Executive Directors of several adoption agencies. I think we have to take their statement with a grain of salt, realizing there may be alterior motives.....

The statement begins with "Legislation intended to reform the current international adoption system will be introduced in Guatemala early next week." Is the legislation mentioned the same as the "Manual of Good Practicies"? Or is it different legislation presented by a committee in Congress?

Scott V I read with deep concern your comment about the protocol being implemented this week. Berger has said that he intends to immediately stop all in-process adoptions. We are currently in PGN, and if things progress normally for us, expect to be out sometime this week (if PGN doesn't shut down; if we don't lag behind the other cases; and if we aren't kicked out again, that is). I hope that the cases currently in PGN will continue to be reviewed...like all adoptive parents in process, I am waiting with bated breath until we bring our precious son home.

Carolyn

I have been reading this site for a long time (monre than a year) and never posted anything. But this morning I found myself reading everything. Of all the uncomfortable thing I've read,the bottom line is " God's Will Be Done" and believe me I'm no perfect person.
We've been in this process (Adoption from Guat) for 19 months, besides the infirtility bull$hit, and lost babies. I know the hurt, and I'm holding up, because "God's Will Be Done". The baby girl we've had on hold will be one next month. Is she our's "NO". What bothers me is all the messages about "our son/daughter" with whatever name you choose to satisfy your own personal satisfaction. These children are not our "sons/daughters" until they are legally here in the USA with us. If your lucky enough that that happens, then let them be who they know they are. Stop with the name change to satisfy your own dream. Accept the child with the name given!! It seems to us that many of the messages on this site reveal personal needs,desires and satisfactions. If your adoptin ----,from ----, then that's who they are.
If your adopting a child (from whereever), let them be who they are. Pray that if it was meant, it will be!!!
Guatamala is not different than the rest of the $hit in this world. Believe us, we do not want to loose this beautiful baby girl (whose been matched for over 10 months), but keep your sanity and remember "God's Will Be Done". Whatever her name is, THAT'S WHO WE'RE PRAYING FOR!! (Not some dream name, or after you mothoer-in, father-in.) It's not about our personal needs, (name change) but about the child (children)!
Sit Tight, perserverence!!!!! & God's Will

i am just so confused by all this back and forth. i am trying to remain hopeful that my daughter will come home sooner rather than later - our POA was filed in Jan, so says our agency but we are waiting on Atlanta to issue our I171H --- I have been on edge for weeks about this and so scared. I just pray to God that she comes home and that our visit trip at the end of this week doesn't become the trip that breaks my heart!!

I think that adoptive parents have a right to name their child whatever they like, Frank. If you choose to keep your daughter's birth name, that's a good choice for you, but who are you to decide this for all adoptive parents? Who are you to judge motives? We've all had painful experiences, Frank. As to God's will, was it His will that you should use dollar signs to somehow try to hide your foul language? Clean it up.

I have to say I agree with Dave on this. How discouraging to get on such an informative sight like this and read posts such as Frank's? This process is tough enough on the soul without the extra added negativity.

Carolyn,

Where did you get your information regarding Berger stopping all in process adoptions next week?

David

I agree with the others Frank. Are we here to support each other or blast people for their hopes, dreams, feelings and what they decide to name their child? Your post was very hars, in my opinion(which you can definitely choose to discount)

Oh, and I also wanted to add about the name thing... Frank, are you aware that many times it is NOT the birthmother that names the child, but rather the lawyer, facilitator or another agency rep? They basically come up with a name for the baby. So, in those cases, why would it be so important to keep the name???

As far as Franks comments.....who cares, its his opinion, which I happen to disagree with but why validate his statement with your responses. Its a mazing how stress manifest itself and I think for Frank its coming out by his rant on names anyway on to the important issues.
To answer your questions, it was our attorney in Guat that said she was informed on Friday, didn't say WHO told her but that she had been notified that the Manual of Good Practices would be implemented next week March 18th- 2007. The irony is that she said they are also moving forward with a possible referral for us next week??????? Then she stated that they plan on continuing with this referral and that "we will both fight this illegal "manual". She seemed very confident that the legal issues would win and that we would keep moving on with this referral. She said that it would slow the process down but she gave me the impression "based on what she implied" and also on what she didn't say that all adoption in process and that are in the court system or in that process would be fine and that we could complete this adoption in Guat. All in the same breath of the Manual is being implemented next week and we have a referral for you next week plus her excitement for us along with confidence leaves me to atleast feel like everything will be fine. I don't know if this help anyone but this "sharing" I hope along with others comments will bring some comfort to us all as a group.
As for Frank, if you do come back in this site good, but its ok to just say I'm hurting just like the rest of us in here and lets just support each other not attack each other.
Scotty V.

Frank- that is an interesting opinion, certainly not one that I share, but different. To each his own. Not sure what it had to do with the JCICS press release though.

Um, so about that...I agree we still do not know how this will effect those in process waiting for their children. It did say "introduced" to congress, not implemented. We have been in PGN since Nov. waiting for our child. We will wait as long as it takes to bring him home. We have no other choice but to see what happens and certainly refuse to give up hope this will be a positive step.

I'm disappointed to see the very strong back/forth here...this is an adoption support site. Opinions are one thing but we should watch the personal attacks or those scathing accusations that simply don't belong HERE.

Frank, I find it ironic that the very people that say things like, its "God's will" are the people that hop from site to site igniting scrabbles and being very un-christian. Is it God's will for all these children to end up in the street? People need to be strong and change laws, and that is how "God's will is done". Not by sitting on your bottom, passing judgment on others. PS., I don't have a referral yet, but she IS MY DAUGHTER, and I will name her whatever I see fit.

Melissa

Frank, Why does it matter to you what name anyone chooses for their child? You obviously posted that message to draw attention to yourself for some reason. The "name" issue is so trivial to me considering what we are all going through right now. I seem to recall many stories of adoptive children that were happy there names were changed. School can be a very cruel place, especially when your name stands out from everyone else's. And yes, we are here to support each other, we don't have to agree, but being respectful is nice and you weren't. Erik

Everyone needs to be understanding of each other at tough times like these. I think it is best to let everyone handle their own journey to adoption in their own way. Now that changes are on the horizon it is best to be a united front as concerned adoptive parents.

Nancy
Mom to Sol Ana home 1yr ago
Mom to Mateo in PGN

I have also never posted on this site, but I was appalled at the language that Frank used. I would like to ask Guatadopt to block messages with profanity. I feel 99% of adoptive parents would agree. We need to support each other with positive language. I also would like to inform Frank that my daughter was named by our lawyer, and yes I am changing her name to a name that means "a gift from God". I would like to thank Kevin and the other writers for their committment in keeping us informed. Thank you very much.

A reminder of Guatadopt rules. You can attack what someone wrote in as harsh of terms as you like. But you can not attack them personally.

We allow all views and opinions to be posted. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Profanity is a tough one and I have been guilty of using it myself (if anyone remembers my open letters). The poster in question did use symbols and we are all adults. So we will not censor them though we do of course ask people to use their best judgement. Some of us use profanity as a sign of the strong emotions we hold. Others have a hard time with that. So it's just another thing to agree to disagree on.

My opinion on namind goes between the two views being expressed here. As background,we did not change either of our kids' names. Though we did get to agree to our son's name with the birthmother but we had an unusal circumstance leading up to his adoption (our kids our biosiblings).

I happen to believe that whether or not the child was named by their bio-mom or an attorney that it is a good thing to keep some part of their name at birth. No matter who picked it, it is a part of their lifestory/history and for us, something that we would keep. Had we really hated their name, it would have been kept as a middle name, not as a first name.

With that said, I believe there are far more important things to debate in the current environment. But everyone is free to continue this debate.

Kevin
Guatadopt.com

I've been reading several of the forums and Guatadopt for some time now, and I have concluded that there are people that crave attention and say shocking things (e.g. Frank's rant on names) just to set people off. I couldn't care less what he says or his opinion (although the typos in his post bother me, lol). I agree with the posters that pointed out that birthmoms don't always name the babies and often it is the attorneys who do so. What I DO care about is that my beautiful daughter will come home and all of our children come home. I also believe the vast majority that come here are supportive of each other, especially during these difficult times. God Bless all of you and YOUR children :)

As a matter of theology, being in "God's Will" is being obedient to His word (the bible). God has called us to take care of the widows and orphans, so I continue in this process because it is within the Will of God. I have great faith that God is who He says He is and does what He says He will do.

I would feel much better if the content of JCICS's
comments included "Guatemala adoptions to remain open during reform." I didn't see those words in the text, only in the title

I'm not at all concerned about Frank or his thoughts. I would like to get some positive information out there that might help us to protect our children and our families. For instance did you know that infant mortality in Guatemala since 2001 has dropped from 45.79/1000 to 31/1000 in 2006? Could this be partly because our babies are getting medical and nutritional needs met? One more very interesting fact: Did you know that the Birth Rate in Guatemala has dropped! Yes, in 1991 it was 35/1000, 1998 36/1000, 2004 34.58/1000, and in 2007 29.88/1000! And all the while adoption from Guatemala has been on a steady rise! I don't think adoption is causing mothers to produce babies or sell babies! We need to get some real facts and quit letting this negative hipe slow down or even halt our adoptions!

I totally agree with A.S., it is being obedient to God's word. If you read God's word you can find several instances of name changes. The fact that we choose this path is not for self gratification but to give true meaning and identity. We named our son "Matthew" which means "gift from God". Our next son will be named Philip "loving child", if your child which is carried in your heart just as if you were pregnant can't connect with you spiritually through calling out his/her natural birth name or the birth name planted in your heart then how can you effectively pray for the well being of that child. Jesus said that if we just had the faith of a mustard seed ( smallest seed in the world ) we could move mountains. My faith allows me to stand on the promises of God. When Jesus commaded us to take care of the orphans and the widows he did so knowing that provision would be made for this to take place. The provision is me and you hearing the call of his voice to make the choice of taking in one of these orphans. Stand for your child as never before, stand in the gap, pray for him or her daily, we can move this mountain, God's word does not return void to Him.

Encouraged

Paul C.

Lisa, I loved your facts about births in Guatemala. This is what drives me nutty, that DOS can say what they have said without any facts to back up what was written. You quoted facts, we would all like to see the facts from our governmental folks as to what is really happening. The facts are that there a some folks in every country who give adoption a bad name by not working ethically and then there are those 1,000's of great folks who work diligently to provide loving parents and homes for the many children being placed. We have to continue to spread the positives about adoption and to keep the the doors open for these children and their mother's who have chosen to place them in our arms.

In regards to Paul C. comments,
Amen.

In regards to Lisa, I think the statistics are very interesting, I wish they would get published in our newspapers.

Thank you.

I am new to this site and have enjoyed reading everyone's comments (except you Frank - not sure it is God's will for you to be cursing). My husband and I are also adopting from Guat. The little girl God has chosen for us is now 6 weeks old. We got our referral when she was only 4 days old. My question is this: Did anyone receive one-month medical updates on their child, or should I only expect the first one at 2 mos? Our little girl was only 4 1/2 lbs at birth and we want to make sure she is continuing to gain weight. I'd just like to know what everyone else experienced in that regard. I am trying to stay focused on the individual aspects of our adoption rather than getting swallowed up by all the rumors about the current state of Guat adoptions. I'll go nuts if I don't.

KC

My husband and I accepted the referral of our beautiful little girl 2/2/07. She turned 2 months old last week and we have not received any updates. Our agency states that we should expext medical updates every 2-3 months but that it also depends on the individual attorney. I sympathize with you and pray that you hear something soon.

Thank you Jennifer! Our daughters are very close in age. Our little one was born on 2/3. I wish I had your e-mail and we could keep in touch throughout this journey! We will be praying for you as well!

Jennifer

You asked about what others have experienced with the medical reports and that your daughter was about 4.5 lbs.

I'm not sure if this is the kind of information you were looking for but here it goes...My little girl was 5 lbs 12 ozs when she was 4 days old. At 2 1/2 months she was 10 lbs 14 ozs. My agency said that I'd get a medical almost every month, but she was born early november and then everything shut down for December and early January. To date I have received 3 medicals (11/15/2006, 1/24/2007, 2/16/2007).

Hope that helps.

KC

My husband and I accepted a referral in July 2006. Our baby girl was born on the 4th of July. We receive a monthly medical on our daughter, even in December & January. She has grown and gained weight. Our case is "facilitator run," and not lawyer driven, so to speak. We got out of PGN 2/22/07 and are still waiting for "pink." Hopefully soon we will be picking her up. I am praying that all of us get through process quickly.
Catherine

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