The Prensa Libre has a story in today's paper about a new office being established in Guatemala effective May 2. It is described as being accordance with the Protocol of Good Practices. The story can be found here.
It states that due to increasing kidnappings, falsifications of documents and unjust delays the creation of the "Adoption Registrar" has been formulated to insure safe and open adoptions in GT. Requested information include 42 new conditions that have to be met to proceed with an adoption.
Here are some:
-date of birth
-who was present at birth(doctor, midwives, etc.) names and info
-municipal incriptions
-current caretaker's name, address, religious affliation if any
-name of hogar, registration number/info, addresss, director's name, personal info
-photos at time of relinquishing including palm and foot print
-up to date photos of child
-name of lawyer/judge determining orphan status
-name of child
-birthplace
-hospital and directions/address
-Folio# and Book# of registered birth at Civil Registry and Date registered
-Bio-parents names, birthplace, reg. birth info at civil registry, cedula info and copy of,
-Current tel# and address of bio-parents
-Names of adoptive parents
-Country of origin, place of birth, tel# and address
-identification data, passport info
-name of agency and lawyers working with, their contact info
It does mention the ADA's legal challenge and we do not at this point know whether this would impact all in-process cases. But this also is just a gathering of information, much of which seems to me to be stuff already compiled.
As we learn more will post it.
Posted by Kevin at April 19, 2007 07:40 AMThis just seems to be smoke and mirrors -- virtually all of the information that the new registrar is seeking is in existing adoption paperwork, both on the Guatemala end and in the parent's/parents' dossier. Perhaps the only new things would be the footprint of the child, info about who was present at the birth in some cases, and the phone number(!!!!!) of the bio parents -- I'm surprised they didn't demand the bio parents' email address too...
Posted by: Lee at April 19, 2007 08:43 AMKevin,
Could you elaborate a bit on the "name of lawyer/judge determining orphan status" requirement? How is this process currently carried out? Also, is the palm and footprint customary at present, or could this be problematic for in-process families? Thanks for any further thoughts you can offer.
We'll have to wait & see if this actually happens. One thing that does concern me is requiring lots of info on the bio-parents - not just the birth mother. I know the name of our birthfather is on the birth certificate, but I don't think we have his birth certificate, etc.
Posted by: Kristen at April 19, 2007 09:32 AMThe list posted just shows some of the new regulations that must be met. The extensive information requested of the bio-parents is for confirmation that no coersion has taken place. Notification of the bio-father and acknowlegement of relinquishment also reinforces this. Requests for date of registration of the birth certificate into the civil registry prevents falsification of entered data. Marie, Guatadopt
Posted by: marie at April 19, 2007 09:49 AMthis just seems to me to be a centralization of various pieces of relevant information that are not currently collected in one place by the Guatemalan government. This is itself may enable the government to detect 'problematic trends', which I think would be good for all - if used correctly of course! Note, my comments are based on Kevin's post; I can't yet access the original Prensa Libre article directly. I would interpret this as a step toward "Hague compliance". JMHO.
Posted by: Lisa at April 19, 2007 11:11 AMThis seems like much ado about nothing, as almost every "new" requirement is something they're already doing. Yes, the requirement for foot and finger prints of the baby is new, but big deal --- for international adoptions the DNA match is the most reliable method of unsuring that the child is as claimed. If anything, the foot and finger prints may have some effect on hindering the unofficial domestic adoptions that take place within Guatemala when people falsify birth records. These "new" requirements seem to be about making it appear that the Guatemalan government is actually doing something about international adoptions --- what many Guatemalans consider to be a national disgrace.
Gregg
www.esperanzashope.com
Seems to me that telephone number is a sticking point. Obviously many birthmoms don't have phone numbers. Could it be that they're using that as a way of excluding a great number of children from being made "available" for adoption? Or was that just an oversight...
Posted by: Jessica at April 19, 2007 12:22 PMKevin,
Can you clarify...assuming this is implemented...is this a new process layer for PGN or will there actually be a new, separate group exclusive of and in addition to PGN?
Thanks!
Posted by: Kathy at April 19, 2007 12:49 PMI have copied a rough computer-translation of the Prensa Libre story below:
"Leaving from May 2 next, notaries or lawyers that do procedures of adoption should include 42 new lines of information in the form required by the attorney general's office of the Nation (PGN).
The disposition was taken to reveal the process and as measure for avoid frauds.
The children robbery accusations, alteration of documents and delay in the approval of the new law of adoptions carried to the PGN to require more requisite, to perform the respective procedures.
The Attorney's office, in the agreement 051-2007, that will take effect May 2, establishes the creation of the Registration of Notarial Notices of Adoption, which includes the new measures.
The agreement orders that inside the 10 following days to the date in which the procedures were initiated, the notaries should deliver to the PGN a form as notice, which should include a series of informative requests that go from data of the birth of the baby, even in the responsible for the labor and of the municipal inscription.
Among the new requirements, should be reported on the names of who they take care of the infant, place and denomination of the home of children where is found during the procedure, and to include photos and tracks plantares and palm groves of the smaller one.
Also the name of the judicial proxy with representation in Guatemala is asked.
Mario Gordillo, general proxy of the Nation, expressed: "Among more information we have of them involved in the process of adoption, more difficult will be that fraudulent facts in the expedient can be registered".
It added that new measures arise after the Manual of Good Practices of Adoption was presented, in February last, which intends to give greater security and care to the Guatemalan children submitted to process of adoption.
Should be temporary
"Any effort in favor of revealing the process of adoption is good, although that information and the Manual do not owe of going beyond the date of approval of the law of adoptions", explained Nidia Aguilar of the Cid, champion of the Childhood and Adolescence, of the Attorney's office of the Human Rights.
The initiative for a law of adoptions continues swamped in the Congress, while is sought that include the processes that governs the Convention of It Have.
"That form is positive, because will give greater certainty al process of adoption, since will remain writing what lawyer carries the process, and he would avoid that mothers give in adoption to its children to different lawyers, generating a type of swindle", thought Feliciano Cart Gudiel, representative of a home of children.
Only in the last six months, some two thousand Guatemalan children were given in adoption to couples of United States, according to registrations of the embassy of that country.
Action: They challenge manual
An action of unconstitutionality was presented in the Cut of Constitutionality, against the Manual of Good Practice of Adoptions, that the Executive ordered to put in force in February of 2007.
The document establishes the adequate forms and orders the procedures that should continue in the expedients of adoptions, based on laws already established.
The challenge was presented by the lawyers Raquel Fortuny Trick, Manuel Alfonso Ramírez Villeda and Enrique Humberto Urízar Maldonado, who they assure that that manual violates the Constitution.
Mario Gordillo, general proxy of the Nation, expressed that was lamentable the challenge, but that understood that they have the right to do it.
"The action goes in detriment of the good practices, but also of the children and its benefit", asserted Gordillo.
It added that, with the Manual, what intends is to order the processes so that observe the rights of the children that could be adopted.
Gordillo commented that exists the probability that the Government of United States pleases its incorporation to the Convention of It Have on adoptions, situation that would do stiffer the procedure of the expedients of Guatemalan children.
The Government of United States announced that in this month the expedients will be vouched for only that comply with the convention of It Have.
"I have understood that there are problems in the registration of its agencies of adoption, what would be able to postpone the incorporation of the Convention until the end of year", expressed Gordillo.
Requirements to avoid frauds
The attorney general's office of the Nation will require that the forms to deal with an adoption include more information, for give certainty of the legality of the origin of the smaller one. These are some of the new requirements.
Name of the boy, place and date of birth, hospital or direction of where was attended the labor, name of the person that attended the birth, and observations al respect.
Data of inscription of the birth of the boy, in the Civil Registration, that include number of sheet and book.
Digital impressions, plantares and obvious, and recent photography of the boy.
Also it is required to know the names of the biological parents, place of birth of these, and its birth inscription data, with numbers of sheets and books. It is indispensable to include the number of order and registration of the decree of neighborhood, and place where was extended.
The parents that give in adoption to their son they should provide their present direction and their phone number.
The form has a line that should carry the direction and telephone of the place where is located the boy, name of the person that takes care of it or denomination of the home that attends it.
Besides, it should carry the number and place where was extended the decree of the person that takes care of al infant or that of the representative of the home.
Information on the state of health of the boy and name of the medical one tratante, number of referee, direction and phone number of the clinic.
Name of the new parents, country of origin, direction and phone number and identification of the judicial proxy with representation in Guatemala, name of the notary and number of active referee."
FYI, The ADA just posted a response to the Prensa Libre article on their website.
Posted by: Jen at April 19, 2007 01:25 PMDoes this mean that all files now will go to this new agency or is this a screening agency before our docs hit PGN? Don't understand the context of this agency?
Thanks,
Sri
Posted by: Sri at April 19, 2007 01:51 PMThanks to Guatadopt for keeping us posted. At some point Guatemalan officials will have to say which cases are affected by their new policies. Weren't all in process cases esentially suspended during Hague 2003 because PGN staff waited for the outcome of legal challenges? If PGN adopts a wait-and-see approach this go around, is it challengeable as a suspension without force of law?
Posted by: Amy at April 19, 2007 03:01 PMLee, Thanks for the info! I was going to write and ask for a brief synopses of what was written. No comprende espaniol! (well, maybe a little left over from highschool!).
Posted by: Lisa at April 19, 2007 03:20 PMI cannot get the link to the story to work...
Posted by: suzanne at April 19, 2007 04:37 PMJust wondering here, as obviously no one can say for sure...but what if there is no birth father listed on the BC? What if the birth mother claims he is unknown? I wonder how they will address that one...some birth moms may have reasons for not wanting to name the birth father.
Wendy
Posted by: Wendy at April 19, 2007 08:18 PMAs far a the requirement listing the birth parents goes, currently in Guatemala unless the father chooses to recognize ("reconocer") the circumstances of the child's birth, the father is listed as unknown. There is no such thing as a mandatory paternity test, etc. Mothers have little, if any, recourse, as fathers are not legally required to support their children unless they publicly admit siring them.
Bottom line is that if birth mom doesn't mention birth dad, don't worry about it.
Gregg
www.esperanzashope.com
From the list, seems like, most items are rational and, in fact, redundent with all our docs. However, inclusion of a number of items, like paternity test are interesting -- one should ask, was this really included to ensure healthy scrutiny or just intended to create procedural block and one more layer of delay. I would be more than happy to invite folks at the PGN to come and stay with us here in the US for a month and decide what my child would pick if he/she could decide.
Posted by: phil at April 20, 2007 01:29 AMTo answer your questions about bio-fathers:
The only times a father's name appears on the birth certificate is if the parents were married, which then causes a slew of other delays because his signature then needs to be on the relinquishing papers. So no, the father's name usually does not appear on the birth certificate. But, the father's name does appear in the Social workers report regradless of marital status. The only time that there is no name mentioned in the social worker's report would be if the mother said she was raped by an unknown assailant. The rape is written up, but no father's name is noted.
Re: telephones-Bio-mothers are given a cell phone, if they don't have one already, by the lawyer to be able to be contacted. This is how they known when to come for a DNA test, SW appointment and to sign the papers, etc. What is requested is that contact information be provided. Hope this answers your question. Marie, Guatadopt
Marie wrote:
"...the father's name does appear in the Social workers report regradless of marital status. The only time that there is no name mentioned in the social worker's report would be if the mother said she was raped by an unknown assailant. The rape is written up, but no father's name is noted..."
Today, there are circumstances other than rape where a birth father's name does not appear in the SW report. My experiences suggest that identifying information for the birth father rarely appears in the SW's report in cases where the birth mother is unmarried. Further, conception did not occur violently in these cases...at least, it was not reported as such. Of course, this could all change tomorrow.
Posted by: Kathy at April 20, 2007 10:54 AMIn our daughter's social work report from 6 months ago, the only mention of a dad was "a brief relationship with the father" and he was not named.
Posted by: Danette at April 20, 2007 10:26 PMSorry I haven't replied but I've been out of town.
I don't have info on how this will be implemented, we will have to wait and see.
I think the social worker's reports vary. Both of mine list the father's name and the circumstances of his relationship with the biological mother. So it does not seem as though there is any consensus there.
There are many potential positive things about this IF it can be implemented properly. (which is a big IF) I can see how it could help get rid of some corruption.
I can also see negatives on this bio father stuff. If the bio father's paternity needs to be proven and he needs to approve of the adoption, it could lead to bad things, wuch as his wanting quetzales to sign off.
But as I said, we will need to wait and see.
Kevin
Guatadopt
This stuff about the bio father being named is confusing to me. I thought that the birthmother couldn't name a birthfather, in order for the child to meet our CIS's definition of orphan?
Tina
Posted by: Tina at April 21, 2007 04:28 PMDear Friends,
Today our entire extended family gathered to celebrate the second birthday of our precious Thomas. He has been with us now for 8 months and he has adjusted beautifully - he is happy, trusting, bright, handsome and playful.
In the process, we lost the referrals for 4 precious children - one "error" after another. You will all know the heartache involved for our entire family in "losing" these children - 2 babies after 9 months each; it was like having stillbirths. However, one can only keep going and believing.
Today, was gathered his parents, all of his grandparents, aunts and uncles, "honoray" aunts and uncles, his little cousins and his GreatGrandmother who is still living. He sat in the center of our complete attention and love to blow out his two little birthday candles and he was completely absorbing our love and blessedness. He is only one child, but he IS one child who is not in an orphanage, who is now completely surrounded by loving family and friends, books, educational and fun toys, games and joyfulness. His small (but older) little cousins treat him like a little and much loved "pet" as they hug him, shove him and race about the house and yard with him, all like little puppies. He is HOME. He is "ours" as much as any child can ever "belong" to anyone besides himself.
It does happen. We got him out in a small window of time of openness. These times WILL happen again and perhaps the system CAN be cleaned up so the process will work better. We were to have had him at 6 months old and got him at 16 months. I am one of his Grannies and went to college in the 60's. I firmly believe that change does happen - that there is strength in numbers and that there is "goodness." Let us all work and believe for the sakes of these children. Our Thomas would have been in an orphanage or on the streets. Instead he celebrated his birthday wit us today, like the Prince he IS!!!!!
Posted by: Ruth at April 22, 2007 03:23 AMFor both of our son's adoptions, the birthfathers name appeared in the Social Workers report and the relationship with the birthmother as well. Both of birthmothers were unmarried as well. We'll see what will happen with this as only time will tell. Prayers and more prayers for everyone.
Posted by: bridgette at April 22, 2007 08:52 PMI think the SW report often has a lot of inaccuracies. We were lucky enough to meet our daughters birthmother at pickup, I read the SW report after that meeting and was surprised how much information was left out of the report. I found out about the birthfather from my daughters birthmother. There was no mention at all in the SW report about the birthfather.
My daughter's birthmother is also HIV+ and there was no mention in the SW report about that either. Because of her HIV she is unable to work, most people will not hire her. The SW report stated that she worked as a housekeeper.
We are in the process of a 2nd adoption and I hope I get the chance to meet her birthmother. Not only to be able to share the pictures with my daughter but also to find out what, if anything, is missing/mistated in the SW report.
Posted by: Joan at April 23, 2007 03:56 PMJoan,
You said the birth mother was HIV+. WAs there no lab test performed on her or was the result in the lab test incorrect?
Posted by: cheryl at April 23, 2007 05:03 PMQuestions for Joan-
Joan, didn't you get the results of th HIV/TB tests of the bio-mom? How was the meeting arranged with the bio-mom prior to pick-up? Did the US Embassy allow this case to be finalize without you knowing of the bio-mother's HIV positive status?
If you would rather contact me, use the forum or contact address at the top of this website. Thanks.
Marie, Guatadopt
Tina,
I can only give you my take on the birth father situation. When our son came home to us in 2002, we had no information at all about his birth father. There was no mention of him anywhere. When our daughter came home in 2004, we were told the birth father's name which was the equivalent of John Smith, I believe. The SW report said that as soon as he found out that the birth mom was pregnant, he took off and came to the US. This story, plus one BF who died, was repeated to me about 6 times by various adoptive parents while we were in Guatemala City. What this says to me is that at that time someone (PGN, lawyers, etc) wanted to hear about *a* birth father. Now, it seems like they are just making it official.
Gregg wrote:
"the DNA match is the most reliable method of unsuring that the child is as claimed."
This would be true if there were some way to track that the child who came for the DNA test is in fact the same child who later is presented to the parents and leaves the country. However there have been a number of cases of substitution of children after the DNA test was performed on a child of about the same age with his or her mother.
The UK has done footprints for years now, so as to have a simple and non-invasive way to make sure that the baby who's about to get a visa is the one who had the DNA test.
This will, I think, be a low-tech and important safeguard... if the relinquishment system survives the next year.
Tesi
Posted by: tesi at April 26, 2007 11:12 PM