What does this mean for those of us who have Embassy appointments in early August? We fly on Wednesday and have our appt on Friday.

Tina

Does this apply to cases submitted on 8/1 & after or does this apply to the famlies that were submitted for pink in July?

Thanks again for keeping us posted..

Lisa

Is there any chance that those of us already submitted to the Embassy and waiting for pink would be "grandfathered"?

I'm ok with the cost and the extra caution, but I don't want to wait even longer. So much time has been wasted already.

Thank you for the forewarning of the new requirement. Will the same US labs be used? How long do you think it will take to get results (i.e. what additional time will be added to the current process?) and will the birth mom be involved at all or just the baby this time?

wow, interesting...I am thinking that the Embassy must have determined that baby-switching is a common enough activity that it is worth instituting this DNA second test. I am distressed that the Embassy finds this need. Will only the child be tested this second time, Kevin, and matched to previously-received birthmom sample, or will the birthmom's involvement be required once again?

Lisa

I'm afraid that we do not have any details beyond what was posted.

My GUESS would be that they will not institute this on cases that have already been presented to the Embassy for Pink. But that is purely a guess.

I'm sure we'll get more info in the next day or so.

Kevin
Guatadopt

I believe that waiting until after the final adoption decree is issued is CRAZY. Devils advocate here....What does one do if the DNA does not match? You are now legally responsible for this child that you cannot bring into the states. What a nightmare! Also, I am deeply concerned that this new policy is going into effect (potentially) so soon...when were the adoptive families to be told of this newest delay? and cost?

Kevin,

Would this affect all cases or just new ones?

I understand the reason for the second DNA test; I just hate having to wait even longer for my child.

Our first DNA was done the last week of June and showed the probability of maternity was 99.99 percent. We are still waiting for the Embassy to issue a pre-approval following this first test. How long will they take to act following the second DNA test?

Debbie

I can understand the need for this, but my issue is (hopefully this will be address later) is going be the same slow process as waiting to be authorized and then we will have to get a second pre-approval?

I am hoping they will allow the testing to be done upon exiting PGN while the chase is on for the BC, etc so that it will lessen the delays with the pink being issued.. if they wait until the paper work is submitted to the USE this will add more of a delay.. or worse yet waiting until after they issue the Pink and you find out when you go down for your pick up.. I hope we all hear soon where after exiting PGN this will be done.. also hoping this is just a check against the first set of DNA and can be done quickly and effeciently and not another approval process that takes weeks to complete.

My 2 cents is adding an extra check(security measure) to the adoption to make sure everything is on the up and up i feel should be looked at as a good thing..

I know i want my child home yesterday, but a slight delay to take away doubt of wrong doing etc is worth it. at least in my book.. I totally trust my agency and facilitator, and attorney, but i know there are bad apples out there that are casting these doubts now on all adoptions..

I am guessing, but assume that only the child will need a second DNA test, which will be matched with the first child's DNA test. This will show that the original child tested and the current child are the same. A photo will also help people to identify that the child we pick up is the same as the child referred. Since the birthmother was already tested and confirmed, she will not need to be a part of this second round of testing.

Just bring our babies home.

My stomach sank when I read this...it is wasy to say after you bring your child home that we must be suportive, etc. but while in this process and in it for a long time I can not imagine another potentially delay in this process. It is true, one is now legally responsible for this child and so it seems crazy this late in the process to add this. Perhaps while waiting in pgn add this step? I am disgusted that we have to worry about this at this point, if all has been o.k. up to this point in the process why would this be necessary? If they monitor foster care then it would not be an issue...It is so discouraging to me!

Ok...I'm almost not breathing. After all of the waiting on PGN, birth certificates,original DNA, preapproval, etc. etc., now we have to wait for an additional DNA test? What about those of us that have visited many times and know our child wasn't swapped? I'm sorry this is just crazy. To put something into effect so soon, without notice is just not fair.

Lisa-Waiting for Maylin

Wow. This has been such a process - we await our embassy appointment any day, obviously we are wondering how this will affect our case.

I get the rationale for more safeguards. I can only hope that the implementation is reasonable and that delays are minimized.

I think if there are cases of child-swapping occurring, then I completely support the 2nd DNA test. That being said:

1. I'd like to see evidence of these supposed swaps. I'd hate to see our govt putting into place another costly step that increases wait time based solely on rumors.
2. The USE should add add'l staff (or start working full days on Fridays!) in order to decrease add'l wait time as much as possible...it is already insane how long people have to wait for PA & for pink.

As someone who just got her baby home, my heart goes out to everyone in process that has to deal w/yet another step in the long wait. I know I'd be so upset at the thought of another delay. I hope if this goes into effect it is based on real evidence and that the USE works hard to ensure quick processing times.

I think I should have decided NOT to read this. We are hopefully being submitted to PGN on Wednesday and we've already been told the "Average" time is 8 weeks as long as you do NOT have any paperwork issuses...... Yep, looks like she'll be a year old before she comes home.

I am appauled by this step. I do not think that we need to support this. I think we need to vocally oppose this. Guatemalan adoptions already go through so many more checks and balances, including the current DNA test, than adoptions from other countries. This is not necessary and is an undue burden on all of our families. The apparent rush of this to be implemented is also disturbing, as it shows that the government is trying to act quickly without public response. This is what I find most appauling. The government is supposed to serve us, the citizens, and we are supposed to have a voice in their affairs. If they do institute this, we need to make our voices heard loud and clear in opposition to our Congressmen.

What adoptive family out there would not know if their child was switched?! COME ON, GIVE ME A BREAK. Idiots!!! I have seen my child (after the DNA results) gotten a lot of pictures of her and you can bet I would know if she was switched at pick up time. Anyone adopting would and they'd be screaming if it happened. For Christ sake look at the photos and then look at the child. It isn't ROCKET SCIENCE US EMBASSY!
The US Embassy......the nasty gift that keeps on giving......
WONDERFUL...

Is this a test matching the birth mom to the child again? OR would it be matching the child's DNA discovered on the first DNA test to the results of the second DNA test not needing the birth mother the second time around? I am asking because my birth mother is no longer in the picture. She took off once almost making my case an abandoment case until a PI found her and convinced her to come back for DNA and family court.

Thanks,
J's Mom

We just got out of PGN and are waiting for a GC birth certificate. It never seems to end...

I actually don't believe this has to cause a time delay. If you get an approval for a second DNA when documents are presented for Pink and the test only requires the child, there should be plenty of time between then and the embassy/visa appointment. The results come back quick and it would allow the embassy, when the parents physically have the child, to make sure that they have a recent picture of the child at the time of DNA, matching the picture on the child's Guatemalan passport, matching the pictures submitted for the visa, and most importantly matching the child physically leaving the country.

Yes, it is easy for those of us with our kids home to minimize this. But we also know that you get through the bumps and safeguards are better than the need for them.

Hang in there folks, this one is being done for good reason, we need to respect that. Hopefully it can be done without causing further delays or at least minimizing them. The DOS has said publically that they mean business, this is likely some teeth in that.

Kevin
Guatadopt

As one who received a negative DNA result, I am thankful to this step in the adoption process that prevented us from bringing home a fradulently offered child. I agree wtih Kevin...we all know we need more safeguards in this process. If this step will keep adoptions open for future AP's..we should all be wiling to wait a week or two longer. We are hoping to be submitted to embassy any day and this probably is going to impact us directly. It is very hard to be rational about this....but it is the right thing to do. I just hope it is matching DNA of child to child and mom & child..this will MOST CERTAINLY delay the process. I also want to know what happens if it comes back negative 2nd time? Who does this child belong to now????

Sri

While I agree this second DNA test is overkill for those of us, like myself, who have a clear color picture of my son with his birthmother, and color pictures every month from when he was 5 weeks old until we brought him home at 15 months, not to mention two visit trips and a pickup, there are some families that do not have this.

The test shouldn't have to involve the birthmother; just checking the child's DNA against the original. I think it is unfortunate that the US Embassy has decided to put everyone through the wringer of a second DNA test instead of enforcing the bans on facilitators and attorneys that they already know are shady, and who don't provide clear pictures of the child and birthmother.

I agree, it isn't rocket science to tell whether a child has been switched if there have been pictures and visit trips. I just hope the Embassy staff is increased to deal with this additional government mandate.

I'm not surprised by this new requirement and do feel that it is a positive step towards stabilizing and giving integrity to the process. I'm sure this has been a hotly debated issue behind the scenes for the last many months. I don't want to think about the potential alternatives that may have been "on the table." But...

How efficient will the Embassy Physician be in securing samples and quickly forwarding these samples to the lab for verification? How quickly will the lab be able to test and turn these results around? How efficient will the USE be in receiving and posting the results? These are the questions I have that are beyond bothersome for me.

Our original DNA test samples were held for 2 1/2 weeks by the Embassy Panel Physician and sent in a batch of samples to the lab. Over 30 days passed from the date samples were taken to when the USE received test results.

What can a PAP do to help USE efficiency and ensure that this is a speedy process?

Kevin, thank you for posting, and thank you for the level-headed perspective. I gratefully receive the "wait before you panic" message. I agree that this doesn't have to be as bad as those of sitting in PGN waiting might readily believe it to be. I guess we'll know more tomorrow! Again, thank you so much for always bringing us the most current information about our process. I would always rather "know" than be blindsided. I begrudgingly have to agree that anything that can squelch the nasty rumors and actual tradegies that have happened in recent times is worth it for the good of the program. Goodness knows, the process has its problems and needs a little rehab. I just wish it didn't (and hope it doesn't!) cause any more of those intolerable delays!

Blessings,
Crista

the test is on the baby only, not the birth mother.
my question is, if it will take place between pink and apt, how will it NOT extend the time between the 2 ????????????????????????????? travel is 5-7 days. the DNA will cetainly take longer than that.

-Jake

We are at the same stage as Jonathan R--out of PGN and waiting for a GC birth certificate and pink. The thought of another delay at this point sickens me.
But, that aside, I think the US DOS MUST address the point raised by Romperroom Mamma. HOW can they wait until the child is already legally ours (in Guatemala) before doing the second DNA test?!! What happens if the child fails to match, is legally ours, but can't be brought to the US?!!
It seems that they have not thought this through, in their rush to implement this new policy.

With all due respect Kevin, I think this may cause additional delays. You are right that it doesn't HAVE to cause a delay, but we're talking about the USE here. They don't have a good track record for reviewing documents quickly....just how quickly are they reviewing the first DNA test and issuing PAs?
I would support this fully, if I thought the USE was capable of reviewing the test results in a timely fashion. As it is, I think the amount of time it will add to the process is more harmful and likely than the possibility of a PAP not noticing that the baby (child) they pick up is not the same from their referral pics/1st DNA test/updates/visit trip.

I'm just going to comment on a few things...some to reiterate what has been said, others to talk a little about perspective.

1 - The second DNA test has been pushed by several Advocacy groups since 2005 (I would say that Guatadopt has supported this since then).

2 - It may actually be a wash as far as delays are concerned. Right now, many cases are held up at some stage because of suspicion. The 2nd DNA may actually speed up some other areas because it is an indisputable test.

3 - Perspective. While the time it takes to bring children home is a concern now...I think it is reassuring to have this test when your child is home with you.

4 - Children change drastically from birth to being a few months old. If you are not receiving periodic photos, it would be difficult for a parent to KNOW based on a few photos. My daughter looked very different at 2 months vs. a few days old. Luckily, I never had a doubt since there was a birth mark(indention) on her forehead. But after looking at hundreds of photos (blurry and otherwise) for just the calendar, I am often amazed at the changes.

5 - WE (GUATADOPT) have evidence that switches are occurring and this is indisputable. We have turned these cases over to the authorities (though many of them have already been flagged). It is very upsetting to find out that these children have been used and may have to suffer because of the unethical activities of a few. It is obviously upsetting that criminals seem to find loopholes and cause law-abiding citizens to deal with more expense and delay.

6 - We (Guatadopt) nor the USE can publicly reveal our "evidence" of these activities because they involve innocent children and adoptive parents. Just as many of the concerns are discussed, it is not a matter of how many times it happens...it is a matter of how big a loophole it can be.

I understand the frustration...I felt the same way when USE imposed mandatory birth mother interviews while we were in process (adding several months to the process). But I do think this is important step to dispel suspicion. I would rather a concrete test than unproductive stalls or useless paperwork.

Kelly
guatadopt.com

I agree that we need to have safeguards--but what about those children with identifiable features or markings? Our ds, for example, has a physical characteristic that I could distinguish him from just about any other child.

Oh well, once the rules are made, I guess they are applied across the board.

I do think that is a good point--what if the Guatemala government has approved the adoption but the US won't let you bring the child home? What happens to that child? Is there some other child the parent is really legally the parent of? (the one in the initial DNA test? What about the fact that the name doesn't match)?

I think they should make the second DNA the final step of PGN.

Carolyn

If this second DNA test would really help to stop the "baby swapping" then okay. However most of the children don't come home as four to six-month old babies anymore and it's very easy to distinguish who's who in a photograph. And I am distressed that this new step could add months to the already lengthened process! I certainly would hope that only the child needs to be tested, not the birthmom because that again adds to potential problems and a longer process. Because if both b-mom and child are tested and the child is not a baby, s/he will be further stressed by once again meeting with her/his birthmom then be taken away from them yet again! The girl I am adopting is four years old and I was crushed when I saw the DNA picture of her happily sitting on her birthmom's lap, knowing that she would be "left behind" by birthmom again.

I disagree in that I think it will cause delays.

Our case:
We were submitted for pink and should get pink this week. Thurs or Fri. which would mean an apt next week.

Now if we need another DNA test and it wasn't requested 3 weeks ago but will be required for our apt, we will need to have this done between now and.....
thus we will NOT get an apt in a week but will get it in 2-3 weeks now.
which means our PGN out to apt changes from 4 weeks to 6-7 weeks.

My glass is half full, this may in fact speed up the process on the PGN side of the process. The backlog of cases facing PGN is growing and their
need to become Hague compliant is getting closer.
I believe that this is a way for the USE to help
PGN do their job and at the same time protect the children of Guatemala. We just received our PA on Sat. 07/28/07 and should go into PGN today,
if this will speed up PGN this will be great. We
need to face one absolute, we will be the final families bringing children out of Guatemala before the Hague goes into effect and for me and my family the wait is worth it knowing that the UN (UNICEF) and the international community will have nothing to do with our son.

Trusting in Him

Paul, Iris, Matthew, and Philip

Though in theory this is ok it could cause a LOT of legal/valid/non-fradulant adoptions to be further delayed and no visa ever issued. What if the birth mother cannot make it back for the final test. What if she lives far away and it will take a long time before the test is even done. What happens to the babies during such a delay?

I already have my children home but we had many delays with one of our adoptions (22 months). Any another hurdle for the birth mom could easily have added months/years to the case!

Joan

I think Kevin is absolutely right, but it is very frustating, especially for those of you so close to the end. I completely understand the need for this, I just don't understand the timing. They announce the change on June 30th and it goes into effect August 1st? That's just unfair. I know someone who has their embassy appointment on August 7th and I can't believe she might be facing another delay in getting her daughter home.

Kevin,

You are advocating in favor of a State Department position that slows down many legitimate adoptions and creates needless expenses for many families already strapped for cash.

Over the past several months, the State Department, working through CIS, has slowed down the pre-approval process considerably, is now raising the price of visas and various legal documents, and apparently will slow down the issuance of visas by up to two months after adoptions are finalized (if I'm reading the posts correctly on this web site). Now, in addition to these changes, a new DNA test is added to the mix. Prospective parents are being used as pawns in a political game that State is waging against the Guatemalan government. The stated goal is to stop Guatemalan adoptions after the first of the year.

So I'm very curious about your motivation in saying this "is being done for a good reason."

Jan

Kevin,

You are advocating in favor of a State Department position that slows down many legitimate adoptions and creates needless expenses for many families already strapped for cash.

Over the past several months, the State Department, working through CIS, has slowed down the pre-approval process considerably, is now raising the price of visas and various legal documents, and apparently will slow down the issuance of visas by up to two months after adoptions are finalized (if I'm reading the posts correctly on this web site). Now, in addition to these changes, a new DNA test is added to the mix. Prospective parents are being used as pawns in a political game that State is waging against the Guatemalan government. The stated goal is to stop Guatemalan adoptions after the first of the year.

So I'm very curious about your motivation in saying this "is being done for a good reason."

Jan

The point about legal responsibility for our child in the event of a non-match is a very good one. What recourse would parents have if they had custady but could not apply for a VISA based upon this? The timing seems wrong.

First off, I'm having e-mail problems and so I wasn't getting notification of comments. I think Kelly very eloquently answered most of the things I was going to post, even for things posted after her comment.

Obviously, in a legitimate case virtually every step of the process is unecessary. But each provides safeguards. And with each additional safeguard, creative and criminal minds will attempt to circumvent it. And if they find a way, it will require a new safeguard.

There is ZERO doubt in my mind that this is a necessary safeguard. It is sad that this is the case. The world is mostly filled with good, honest people. But there are also people who suck!

Lastly, I am reading things here that seem to saying what at least I don't know. I speculated about how it would make sense to be done. That was not a statement of fact. The info we received was just that it would between pink and appointment, nothing more. I have not received any info to indicate that the test would be conducted by the embassy doctor. Simply, we don't know what it will be.

We always want to see children come home. We know the joys of starting a family through Guatemalan adoption and the heartches of the process. I went through the Hague, an avid Guatadopt reader myself at the time. No matter the hassle, any safeguards taken that eliminate corruption, the kind far more relevant than things like birthmother payments, are necessary so long as they do not remove the opportunities for legitimately relinquished and abandoned children to obtain permanency in a loving family environment. A step like 2nd DNA does not jeopardize that, but the reforms that result from what comes from corruption have historically removed those opportunities.

Kevin
Guatadopt

Don't be angry at Kevin, he's on our side and he's just the messenger. Thanks Kevin for all your information.

Kevin,

We are waiting for a referral. Our agency tells us we should have it within a few weeks. Given the recent 2nd DNA test, upcoming Hague ratification by U.S., etc., are we being fools to think we'll be okay? Our agency assures us we will be grandfathered in under the current system but I'm skeptical and afraid of losing our shirts for a child that may never come. I know you can't give me guarantees, but I would be grateful to hear your thoughts (or anyone else's out there).

Rosie K

The timing of this is obviously a political move reacting to the stories in the media
With the probability of baby-switching this should have been instituted a long time ago

Now we adoptive parents in process will be the ones to suffer with additional costs, worry, & waiting

I think that the second test should be at the end of PGN with the governments working together

This might also work to rein in some of the PGN shenanigans

We parents already have more than enough grief-I hate to see more piled on

I too applaud this step. Yes hopefully it would not have been neccessary in most cases but if this will help keep adoptions open then for the good of the children who need homes and families now and the future it is needed.

As far as time..yes it will take a little longer but comparing it to the initial test and preapproval isn't fair. First of all the birth mother will not need to be brought in. Secondly when doing the visa preapproval the DNA is just a small part of the US embassy's process. They also have to examine many documents and often ask for additional ones so that is what takes longer. This time all that will need to be done is look at the results.

Also as far as photos go. We have adopted three children from Guatemala. One was 3 1/2 mths old at homecoming. We saw her in person the end of October and brought her home the 4th of January. She had changed totally.

Our son who came home at 9 1/2 mths had the same look from the time we first saw his photo when he was 5 mths old.

Our son who came home at 4 1/2 yrs looked very different is some of the photographs. His process took 1 1/2 yrs and sometimes when we got photos he really looked different...all besides the silver tooth...so we knew it was him if his mouth was open!

So I do believe you could miss it if a child had been swapped pretty easily.

Penny

As far as the no warning before implementing...I would think that is the only way to do it. If they give 6 mths warning..they probably wouldn't catch any as it would be time for the attorneys/facilitators to clean up their cases. I hope there is a way to ensure that attorneys can't just change these into abandonments and get around this step.

I am traveling this Thursday to Guatemala, for my Fri appointment at the US Embassy. My agency said that this new DNA change will not affect any family that already has their appointments. This is only going to affect those families that are still in the process and have not received their PINK SLIP and appointment at the Embassy.

Well, it looks like my husband and I will be a test case for the new process. We will be submitted for Pink by the end of the week and we'll be sure to let you know what happens. I'm not happy about being the first to go through the new DNA testing requirements especially because it doesn't sound like any procedures or processes are in place yet. But we will keep you posted on what we find out and what we experience. Wish us luck!!
Tika

We are very much concerned about any further delay that this test will result in. We waited for almost 7 months to get our first DNA authorization. We have waited so long to get thorugh the process and any further delay will be very hard for us to deal with.

I'm sorry to disagree with so many people on here, but I think that the second DNA test is ridiculous. This process is so emotionally, physically, and financially draining as is, and to add additional costs and time frames on at the end just seems cruel. Not only is this unfair to us as parents, but what about the children who have to spend extra weeks or months in a foster home or orphanage, away from their parents? I will grin and bear the extra weeks of being away from my son, but I will never agree with dragging out an already draining process.

I just got off the phone with our agency. We just found out our pink slip appointment is for Monday, August 6!!!!!.....however, they are requesting the DNA test anyway so our agency is scurrying to get this done. We will be leaving Saturday to go get our baby girl. Please pray that they get the DNA taken care and the results to the Embassy by our appointment on Monday!

My first DNA test took a long time and it was LapCorp that was responsible for the delay. The US Embassy acted very quickly once they got the results. I'm mentioning this to help people monitor this second DNA test. If it is taking a long time, you can contact the US Embassy and ask if they received the results. If they don't have them, then contact the company that is performing the DNA tests. INterestingly, my tests were done quickly but LapCorp just didn't send them to the embassy for quite a while. LapCorp sends the results in batches to the embassy. Documentation with the batch may indicate that your result is in that batch when in fact it isn't. Then when you ask LapCorp and the embassy where the results are, they point fingers at each other. Such a strange system.

I'm in favor of the second DNA test. There are wrinkles in this new procedure but it sounds like one of the least painful ways to root out evil doers and hopefully be one part of paving the way to an adoption friendly implementation of Hague.

Hugs to all, Cheryl

I think this will cause me problems with the adoption of one of my children as the mother is in jail. It took over 1 yr to get her to agree to give up the DNA for the first test. Now, we may have to fight with her again to get it a second time. I understand the reasoning behind this, but I would rather not see it enacted.

According to my inside source at Lab Corp, the process for this second DNA test has not been worked out yet, so although they might want to implement it immediately, they still have quite a ways to go. The second test would only be on the child and then the results matched to the original test results. Lab Corp will reduce it's fee to around $117.50 for the test and results will be available in 2-3 days after sample submission. If, and this will have to be seen, the USE can set up a system where the second test is authorized at the time the paperwork is dropped off for Pink then it is entirely possible it will not add any delays and add a level of confidence to the system.

Wow Wendy,

You are the original Nancy Drew! Thanks for sharing your fact findings with us.

Jean

Jennifer,
Do you know when you were submitted for pink. My estimated embassy appt. was for Aug 6-10. But, we still have no word on our pink slip. We were submitted on July 23.
Sarah

Thank you so much Wendy for your post. I am currently waiting for pink and my panic level went down a notch when I read your post.

Thank goodness it is just to re-test the baby. Lets hope they can work out a good procedure. My three children are home, but I am concerned for the babies and children in Guatemala who will have to wait longer or never find a pernament home.

Many of you have a
lot more faith in the good motives and efficiency of the U.S. BCIS and U.S. Embassy in Guatemala. I don't. They unnecessarily held up
my youngest son's adoption for almost 2 years for no reason.

Good luck to all you waiting for pink and may you all be travelling
soon.

Joan

I just received the following email from my adoption agency:

Dear all:

For the last couple of days or so there has been news about a 2nd DNA test now being required by the U.S. Embassy in order to issue an Immigrant visa to an adopted minor. This second DNA test is to be performed on the minor child only and the results compared with the initial DNA test results. The Embassy wants to make sure that the child that was presented in the first DNA test is the same child that is going home with the adoptive parents.

The information I have gathered so far is sketchy at best. There hasn’t been an official notification from the Embassy to either Agencies in the USA, nor to the attorneys in Guatemala. I was told yesterday by one of our attorneys that his understanding is that with the final documents that are filed with the Embassy for the Pink Slip as of today, (08/01/07) this new requirement will be in effect and not with those pink slips that are already issued. Again, this is NOT OFFICIAL. Nobody really knows for sure as the Embassy has not made an official announcement. As soon as I have the official word, I will let everyone know.

Wendy,

Thanks for that piece of information. We were also told by our agency which has been 100% accurate so far that there is a lot of confusion so implementation might take a couple of weeks.

AHAHAHAH
This is making me crazy! We were supposed to be submitted today or tomorrow for PINK. I cant stand the uncertainty! How can they implement something they have no policy for? Its just a mess for those of us getting ready to be submitted.

I'm disturbed by the lack of info from the Embassy. If this is a necessary policy that has been well-thought and is for the good of the order - why can't we see specifics? Why no effective date? If Kevin's scenario is accurate - the protocol is poorly designed as it needlessly extends what is currently a short and manageable time period (embassy medical exam to parent appointment).

I'm not as convinced as others that this second DNA check is necessary, but that ship has sailed. If we are required to do so it should be implemented in a way that is transparent and swift. The waits are painfully long already - shame on the Embassy if they can't see that and work within the exisiting time frames to find room for this 2nd round of DNA verification.

Just to add my two cents to this,
This has been discussed for years and had always had support from many advocates. This is nothing new.

No matter how many pictures one has of the child or how many visits one makes it is as simple as the following, the concern has always been that the child that passes the first DNA test is not the same one who goes with the adoptng parent on the plane. Now with the implementation of matching the child's second DNA test to the first, it will eliminate any indescrepencies. It will deter the crooked lawyers and facilitators, and they should be banned. This test will occur after exiting PGN and issuing pink. Costs as per Labcorp would be under $200. USE approval time depends on each individual case.

This isn't a question about oh, folks who already have their child home support this, thinking like that is emotion-driven. Support for a second DNA test is based on ethics.

Another concern I personally do have and have had for a while now, for a child who does not have a DNA match or have a negative DNA result as required by three embassies, can be offered to another embassy with parents of another nationality. To date there is no requisite in place to prevent this from happening.
Marie, Guatadopt.com

Hi,
We have been in the proccess of adopting for 4+ years now. For me another few weeks is not a big deal. Yes I would rather not have to add the time, but in the big scheme of things I am ok with it.
This DNA test makes more sence to me than some of the other things we have been asked to do or to provide. I am amazed by how different the child we are waiting on looks from month to month, and I hate to say it but I probably could NOT pick the child out of a group at this point!

So I am for it, and hope they find an eficient way to carry it out. Either way it will happen and we need to just find a way to live with it regardless.

Best regards,
cgold7

Thank goodness there is yet another safeguard to protect the children. Far better that the adoptive parents bear an additional expense and the burden of waiting at this point in time than having the adoptee learn of an illegal adoption in the future. This process should not be about speed in which a child is supplied to a family. It should be about finding a family for a child in the most ethical manner possible.

Well I can't understand why a 2nd DNA would be needed. The first one has the mother & child pictured there together before blood is even taken. Sounds like a double standard to me wanting a 2nd DNA. If they want to do this fine, but it should start after it is wrote up with a date and set in stone for all new adoptions after the fact. Not the ones in the process at the time. That just doesn't seem fair or right to just through in a policy at the last minute for those already way in the process.
Karen

Kevin:
Contradiction:
1)Maybe implemented last this week or in a couple of weeks?
2) But families are doing this already?
Has this been implemented or not?

3) How is embassy going to separate 1st DNA from 2nd DNA? Are labs being asked to send them separately? ...what will happen practically is that labs will throw them all in together..embassy will not know to separate them...unless the time between PINK & visa appt is now extended to 60 days? (same time frame as PA?)
4) if we can have an embassy doctor in GC, why not an embassy dna lab? This will save a lot of back & forth....and reduce timelines/confusion and really streamline this process...

SriR,

Contradiction indeed! And one I can not explain. I reported on what I have been able to ascertain and verify. And I ma the first to admit it doesn't make sense, thus the reason for the commentary I posted last night.

Folks, I choose my words pretty carefully so please read them closely. I said that "some" are saying it is being delayed. This came from trustworthy people so I was not trying to discount or discredit them. On the other hand, I know that some second DNA tests have been conducted. And if I had a third hand, I know that doctors nad labs have been told of anew process but the US Embassy has not released anything official to adoption service providers or the public. That answers 1&2.

3.) I don't know how they will send stuff.

4.) The wait for preapproval is not solely dependant on DNA. There is allot that goes into preapproval than merely obtaining DNA results. As for how they will know what is what, I have no idea. I don't think that there are that many test results coming in at once that it SHOULD be a huge deal with a alittle organizational skills

5.) Good question

6.) They don't have a doctor on staff. They have doctors who are approved by them for handling certain matters. I have no idea what the equipment nad technological needs are to create a DNA lab, but I'm sure it's no small deal.

Kevin
Guatadopt

We are waiting to get out of PGN. I am wondering if there is a way to go ahead and get this DNA test started, before we actually get the PINK slip???? Will there be anyway to be proactive????

Kevin,

Just wanted to let you know how much your posts and updates have helped me to not go crazy. The uncertainty is what causes so much of the anxiety. Thank you for always being there for us.

I think this is a great step for the children. It will not be a painless process to change, but it is a very positive step. I would have liked to have this extra piece of proof to show my children as they get older and read about Guatemalan adoptions. I'm sure they will have questions about their own processes. It is a good thing that parents will be able to explain this last step to their young adult adoptees and that they can all feel sure that their processes were ethical and transparent.

The DNA test is not a blood test from my understanding it is a cheek swab. It's my guess that they are comparing the 2nd sample to the results of the first sample....they wouldn't need to keep the 1st sample only the results and compare the two.

Kim

Just heard from our agency that we (and presumably all others going forward) will be required to do a 2nd round of DNA testing. For context purposes, we were submitted for pink last week.

As our agency understands it, we will have dates and instructions included with the pink slip regarding this new step. I asked our representative in Guatemala to guess on additional time - he guessed 10 days but admittedly was unsure how long it will take.

While I am not thrilled about having yet one more hurdle to jump before finally bringing our daughters home, I can accept that though this may feel like an unreasonable request to some of us so close to the end, it is really only one of many consequences to come for a system that has gone unchecked for too long. For the good of all present and future children and adoptive families, major changes have to be made and for Guatemala, the time is now or now. It's just too bad that we're the ones caught up in the system when this is all coming down. The real tragedy is not the delays caused by a second DNA test, it's the corrupt and unethical practices that make a second DNA test necessary! I don't see how this new requirement could have been issued with more warning. If the purpose is to help put a stop to baby stealing, baby swapping, document fraud etc. then it would make sense that they wouldn't give a long lead time for those participating in and profiting from these activities to clean up their act and cover their tracks. If there are already children in the system under these fabricated identities (we know there are), they'll be discovered and so will the unscrupulous adults who put them there. If we don't catch these people red-handed and punish them then they'll just stay in business and keep finding new ways to trick the system. I want my daughters home yesterday. I'm as sick of being in this process as everyone else (7 months and counting, just entered PGN again after 3rd KO). But I can't hate the system and at the same time bitterly resent every attempt made to change it because it effects me negatively. In a sad way, my response to this whole process is a part of my children's heritage. They're not only Guatemalan, there is something else that distinguishes them. They are part of an unspoken class. They're orphans, discarded, unclaimed and voiceless. It's not a club anyone deserves to be a part of but it's real and it's an affinity my children and your children share with 143 million other orphaned children in the world. More than many nations combined! If these new requirements raise awareness, spark debate, shape a worldview, start a change...I may not like it but I'm for it. I'll call it our contribution to hope. Take heart and hang in there. I sincerely hope we're all home soon.

AC

We received Pink yesterday with a Friday August 10th appointment. We were told that we didn't need a 2 nd test. So our Sweet grace will be home soon.

Marie from Guatadopt,

That is truly sad about the kids who have negative DNA's being offered to Embassies who don't have our policies in place. You have to wonder if the Embassies of those countries would tell prospective adoptive families of the negative DNA results.

I am for anything that would promote ethical adoptions, and the 2nd DNA is certainly a small step in the right direction.
(that being said, it does seem like one more hurdle to jump in the seemingly endless steps to an adoption).
Does anyone know much about DNA testing--such as how early you can test for it? I think it would be a good idea if it is possible, to test right after birth, when the child's & birthmother's pics can be matched with the bloodwork, and the newborn pictures you may get from the facilitator/agency can be compared against the DNA photo. Obviously this wouldn't work with older children.
When we received several newborn pics of our daughter, pics of her when she was 1-2 weeks old, and then at 1 month, they all looked completely different. I remember thinking,
"this doesn't even look like the same child." I know her pics from 1 month on are of her. I didn't think about it too much, but when the news broke about Mary Bonn, and other stories of wrongdoing, it began to nag at me.
I often wonder if the pics we have of her from birth to 2 weeks are really of my child, yet I don't think there is one thing I can do to verify it (our case was a Mary Bonn case ). As I work on her Lifebook, it nags me to put these pics in there, not knowing 100% that they are her.