I am praying PGN has no recourse in these cases. I know of a few families who were forced to go this route and finally had a postitive outcome. These were cases that PGN refused to rectify and ones that they made impossible demands on. I cannot imagine the heartache these families now face after all they've been through already.

I am not even surprised that this change in direction has taken place. I have no understanding of the legalities of going through a judge, but beware. That seems like a very dangerous route to me. The judicial system is VERY problematic in Guate and corruption is a known problem. Clearly there is an all-out ugly fight going on among the various entities in Guate. Getting caught up in legal challenges in Guate would be a mistake, in my opinion. My guess is that the judge in this case will eventually back-off once it gets too hot...my hunch.

If anyone has any info please post, our child is the hogar,mention in the article and we are in the judical process. We are very worried

I don't want to read too much into this, but does this mean for cases that PGN is playing games with using a judge is a recourse? I love the fact they of all people are complaining about time frames???!!!

s

to my previous post,
I meant our Hogar and Lawyer was mention in the article, not our child's name or our name.

My child is in this hogar and my case is one of them being questioned. It has been a nightmare! Children are being thrown to and fro for political reasons and it is heartbreaking! PGN complaining about the timeframes? That is irony at its best. Thank you for the information you have given us so far.

I have a friend who is in the process of adopting a child using Luarca. PGN kicked the case out for something that was incredibly trivial in order to delay processing. Luarca decided to appeal through the Judicial system. So my understanding is that the Guatemalan legal system provides for appealing under several different situations-PGN taking too long, PGN requesting trivial things that really have no bearing on the case, etc...

To Karenms1,

You frequently speak as if you almost have the inside track on what is going on in Guatemalan. I'd like to know if your work has anything to do Guatemalan adoptions? ARe you an employee of the US government that has access to information that pertains to Guatemalan adotpions.

Thanks for posting this. We are one of these families. We are now at the Embassy working on the 2nd DNA test and waiting for pink so the new birth certificate has been issued. This is probably a hard prediction to make, but do you think the Embassy would turn over cases to PGN that have been approved by a judge?

Guatemala, September 3, 2007

Kelly and friends,

The retaliation of the PGN is a direct consequence of the criminal charges filed against three PGN lawyers: the director, Victor Hugo Barrios Barahona, the director of the section of the Childhood and Adolescence, Josefina Arellano and Abel Calderon, one of the PGN reviewers. The charges were pressed against them by the grandfather of a little girl whose file was kept hostage by the PGN for over eight months, for no valid reason. The girl is at the hogar Primavera and the accusations are a smoke screen to conceal the fact that they have abused their power in more ways than one and will have to answer for that. Attacking the hogar that shelters the child, is the PGN lawyers idea of a legal defense.

When the PGN does not approve the adoption, the notary can choose between doing whatever the PGN wants, or to pass the case to the Family court, where the judge decides whether to approve the adoption or not. That road has not been used very often, because the judges are not willing to contradict the PGN, but since the abuses of the PGN got so bad, many cases have been filed with the courts and approved by them.. When the PGN found out about this, the Attorney General and Arellano went to talk to all the judges, to request from them that the PGN were notified of the court approvals, under the pretense that the PGN wants to keep track of how many children are adopted. The First Judge immediately complied with the request, but the clerk who got the copies of the approvals of the PGN did not tell anyone about them, so the three days that are the term to file legal resources, expired before the PGN realized that they have been served. We were told that she was immediately fired. When the next notification of another approval arrived, the PGN filed a petition right away to annul the approval, which is totally out of line. Adoption is a voluntary matter, that cannot become litigious, so there is no room for that kind of petitions and much less from the PGN, who has nothing to do with a private matter such as an adoption. The judges are confused for all this turmoil, especially because they do not know what is what lies beneath the PGN opposition, so they feel caught in the middle of a dispute between the lawyers and the PGN. But what it is at stake is far more serious. The legal system of the country is being tested when the people in power feel free to perform hostile takeovers of private orphanages, holding the babies hostages, taking lawyers into custody, undermining the authority of the courts and discrediting the people and the orphanages that stand between the abandoned children of Guatemala and a very somber destiny. On the other hand, this could be an eye opener for those who believe that the State should control adoptions, because if the State could not handle forty six babies in a well run facility, how can we expect them to care for the thousands of children who will be deprived of private care if adoptions are no longer possible? It is urgent that the private system remains in place, duly accredited before the central authority, who could not be the PGN, for its notorious incompetence, neither Bienestar Social, for the same reason.

The Secretaria de Bienestar Social de la Presidencia (Secretariat of Social Welfare of the Presidency) was created by an illegal decree of the then president, whose legislative powers are limited to issue regulations of already existing laws. Only the Congress can pass laws and the people of Guatemala cannot be obligated to obey orders that are not based on law. The SBS issued a decree (illegal as well) ordering all those establishments that care for children, to register with them. Primavera does not obey illegal orders, so that is why it is not among the ones who did so. But that does not make Primavera a clandestine crib house, because it is legally formed and registered at the Civil Registry, as it should be. The allegations that Primavera is a clandestine crib house are ridiculous, but coming from the newspaper whose editor is the brother in law of Wendy Widmann de Berger, we find it easy to understand its ulterior motives. Time is running short and Berger has his days numbered as President of Guatemala. The coveted reward of 28 million dollars in exchange for closing down adoptions in Guatemala is so near, yet so far, that he and his wife are getting very desperate. At the celebration of the 50th Anniversary of the Military Academy, when Berger was interviewed by the press, his only concern voiced to the reporters was that the Congress has not approved the adoptions law, a proposal known as the Ortega Law, which would effectively close down adoptions in Guatemala. In a country punished by malnourishment, poverty, violence, embezzlement of the public funds, drug dealing, child labor, sexual exploitation of the children and many other terrible things, the reward explains why is that Berger is so focused in an adoption law that would derail a system that really works, allowing a few thousand of children every year .to escape from a certain death.

The lack of veracity of the article published in Prensa Libre is matched by its lack of respect of the privacy of the people who are adopting and the children who are being adopted, despite the warning of the judge who told them that according to the law, the matters of the Family Court are private. Our apologies to the families whose names were mentioned in the article.

The PGN has said that the children cannot be at private orphanages without a court order. That is not so. The judges of the Childhood and Adolescence contradict the PGN, refusing to issue court orders to admit children at those centers, when the child is being relinquished by the birthmother, because the scope of their jurisdiction are the children whose rights were violated or are about to be violated.. The Law of Integral Protection of the Childhood and Adolescence (PINA Law) is meant to remedy the situation of the children who do not have a family or whose family is abusive, and of the juvenile transgressors. A child being adopted is not a child at risk. As simple as that.

The court rulings will remain and the PGN will have to quit playing games with the adoptions files. The request for documents that are already in the file, for requisites that have no legal grounds and for conditions impossible to fulfill and more impossible to be legally justified by the PGN, are exhausting everybody’s patience. Mot of the PGN staff are on their way out and they will have to answer for all the harm that they have done. Casa Quivira will always be the example of what a government should not do and of the harm caused by the raw ambition of someone who wanted all.

Susana Luarca, Attorney at Law
Guatemala City.

Isn't it funny tht PGN is required to approve a case in (I believe) 3 days. Ironic that when they don't get their 3 days to appeal a judicial approval they whine and pout - stomping around threatening attorney's hogars in retaliation.

But when we don't get our 3 day approval from PGN we sit on our behinds for 3 months with NO RECOURSE. None.

IF PGN would do its job, attorneys wouldn't have to bypass them. Which P.S. is legal.

Unfortunately we are a family caught up in this mess. Our daughter is at the hogar and is one of the cases. I feel sad for all of the children caught up in this political situation.

Stephanie,
The lawyers do not bypass the PGN. It is mandatory to get the PGN's opinion, or the whole process becomes null. But it is the right of the adoption lawyers to ask the Family judges to review the opinions of the PGN and to decide if the opinions are right or not. In ALL cases, the courts have overruled the PGN, proving that their objections had no legal grounds. Despite what the PGN says, they have no right to try to nullify the courts approvals, and by even attempting to do so, they are showing how little they care for the children and the families who are waiting for them.
Susana Luarca

To Cheryl:
To answer your question about who I am. I am a US social worker who has worked in Guatemala as well as other Central American countries. I have lived and worked in the region off and on since 1991--on child related projects. I now live in the US and work in a variety of roles, including as an adoption consultant. I have extensive experience in adoption (including homestudies) and currently, among my activities, I am involved with Hague Accreditation here in the US including training social workers in the new requirements for agency accreditation. I am NOT employed by the US Government or the US Mission in Guatemala--however, I have worked for them in the past. My knowledge of this is related to my contact with a variety of the actors in this situation. I have some access to information due to my social networks. As for my knowledge--most of the time I am just speaking from an analysis point of view. My information is based on YEARS of experience in dealing with Guatemala and Guatemalan systems. Frankly, I have watched with alarm as things spiral out of control in Guatemala--especially concerned about those families who started after the overt Embassy warnings (and Guatadopt warnings). I feel like I'm watching a train wreck. I do want you to know that I am pro-ICA and I am deeply committed to reform for the long-term good of ICA. I know that I tend to be a little blunt, but I do consider myself responsible for what I say here such as my knowledge of some of fraud taking place in Guate. As for this current situation--I would avoid going through this new route like the plague. Getting the judges in Guate into this action could really turn into a nightmare if rulings are made and then overturned, etc. Just my opinion and I would be PLEASED to be wrong about many of the things I have stated on Guatadopt. However, I do feel like my opinion should be heard. I welcome discourse and even disagreement--that is important as things unfold.

If the SBS is going to claim that Primavera is not a legal hogar, what is to keep them from going in and taking all the children there. Does the current state of affairs down there mean that the Police may just go into any orphanage anywhere in the country and just start claiming that these children are placed there illegally?

Of course this would leave the government with the task of actually taking care of the children, but it is chilling to think that anyone who speaks up or tries to fight the nonsense(such as Susana) may be targeted for the type of thing that happened at CQ.

Again, what is to keep the government from going to Primavera and taking all the children?

als

How did you know your child is one of the cases being questioned?

tam,
I am listed in the article.

als

Tam, parents' names were printed in the article, along with their children's names and details about the case. Horrifying.

Only if we are concerned about our own comfort would we not board the ship. Starting our quest to bring our son home after these warnings from State and Guatadopt had no bearing on our decision to go forward. With no action you have no results and if one child can be rescued from a lifetime of pain at least we will have tried. We are currently in PGN and are praying for a speedy exit.

Dioses Amor,

Paul

als and tam:
We are also one of the families named in the article in the Prensa Libre. We thought things were going well and that we would be traveling soon. Now we are very concerned since we don't know how this will affect our case.

LCT

I was not able to read the article. Is it translated in English anywhere?

Hey LCT,
Our child is at Primavera and we were approved by the Tribunal and now we are waiting for our BC. If you get yours, can you please post to the group.
thanks!

shawn,
We are at the same point, approved by the Tribunal and waiting for our BC. Also for anyone who wants to read the PL article, there are websites that translate from Spanish to English.

LCT

As Kevin pointed out, you can look up many things on our Guatadopt.com archives and on the search engine for similar threads. Also, the Guatadopt.com forum has the answers to questions you are looking for, for example: translated articles and the how to's in this process.
Marie, Guatadopt.com

This is nuts! "PGN and Arellano are upset that some attorneys have opted to process adoptions judicially" yet PGN decided that our case HAD to go through the judicial process b/c PGN could not decide one way or the other after they messed it up so badly over the past year! While we are happy never to have to deal w/ PGN again, the family court judge now in charge of our case is one woman with the final say, yes or no, to our adoption. Sounds like PGN just wants everything to be on their terms. What a poorly designed system.

Lisen,
trying to adopt Ali for over 19 months now.