The US Embassy has issued what I will deem a very frightening statement. I will say that I have herd rumors of cases getting streamlined to clear the pipes cleared before Jan 1. In addition, this is all quite iffy and subject to change.
But I would take this as a serious warning to anyone considering starting a process right now.
I take one more thing from this and that is the DOS is stating that it does not have plans to stand by its citizens who have entered into good faith, legal process. In short, I find this "hands off" statement appalling. I am sure there will be more on this in the weeks to come as we learn more and strategize on what may need to be done.
Here is the statement: http://travel.state.gov/family/adoption/country/country_389.html
Added 9:52 pm Tues 9/25 - click on more for my commentary, a response from Focus on Adoption, and a translation of an article on the Ortega Law that appeared to day in the Prensa Libre. It is worth noting since Guatemala faces a presidential election in a couple weeks that The Patriot Party, whose cadidate is Otto Perez, is suporting this legislation. The UNE (National Unity of Hope) party of candidate Alvaro Colom is much more tentative. Colom already had my support for reasons unrelated to adoption, now he may have it for adoption related reasons as well (which is not to say he "supports" adoption). Thanks to Chris Huber of Families Thru International Adoption for translating it.
A response from ADA can be found here: http://www.adaguatemala.org/English/news/ It has also been posted at the end of the main post.
Added Thurs 9/2: JCICS and NCFA have issued a press release. It can be found here: In addition, at the end of this now very long thread you can find the message they sent out to their agency members urging them to stop issuing referals as of Oct. 1.
Today was a very hectic day of meetings for me in the office. As such, I apologize for the short original post and the fact that it took quite some time to clear comments. That's unfortunately the real world where Kelly and I both have real jobs that feed our families and have to take precendence.
First of all, I am nothing short of appalled at what the DOS has stated. As you will read below in the FOA response, it is not only inconsistent with the Hague, it is also pathetic, cowardly, and immensely insensative to the thousands of in-process families. Granted, as has been stated many times, Guatemala is a sovereign nation and can do as it pleases. But this is also a matter of international affairs and our US government has the duty to defend its citizens. Moreso, ours is a reprentative government and I dare someone to show me how this statement in any way shows an executive branch dedicated to the principle "of the people, by the people, for the people".
I believe VERY strongly that this is political pandering designed primarily to prevent new parents from entering the system. In the end, and this is solely my OPINION, I do not believe that our government will sit around and allow thousands of in process adoptions, entered into in good faith, be disrupted to the detriment of living children in need of permanency and the checkbooks of US citizens. You damn well better believe that if Guatemala or any other country attempted to end good faith contracts on any corporate interest in this manner, there would be hell to pay. I'll point to Cuba after Castro took power, Iran's nationalization of oil industries, and Guatemala's purchase of lands from United Fruit as examples. Except in this case there is zero doubt in my mind that the matter could be handled through simple diplomacy rather than a Bay of Pigs, overthrow of Moussadeq, or genocidal 36 year civil war.
I do not believe this is all coming from the Guatemalan side with the US not raising a fuss. I believe that for some time our DOS, in what I consider its usual non-transparent, dishonest fashion, has not been upfront with the adoption community about its intentions. Instead of having some courage and acting on its own to just do what they ultimately want - to shut down Guatemalan adoptions - they have chosen to issue a series of prolific warnings and statements. Instead of actually prosecuting those who have broken laws, they have accepted plea bargains and not gone after others with vigor and determination. And now they issued a statement like this as yet another way to commit emotional terrorism on its own citizens. I don't think Guatemala on its volition plans to end in-process adoptions, I think the US is orchestrating this in its stereotypical fashion. And in addition, I don't think things will come down as described. I think in process cases will be completed and believe that the US would be better serving its citizens if it just issued a moratorium on new cases if that is what they ultimately want to happen.
I, of course, could be wrong. Moreso, it may take all of us to use our combined effort on an orchestrated campaign to prove me right. Formal plans are in the works for an official campaign and FOA has a call to action below. I did say not to freak out yet because as is being proved in Myanmar right now, as was proven by MLK and Gandhi before us, and as is chanted at many protests - "there ain't no power like the power of the people". We may need to fight. We may need to protest. We may need to threaten (non-violent of course!) all of our elected officials, many of whom are already in campaign mode . But IF somehow the DOS believes that they can just issue a "screw you" statement like this and get away with it, the solidarity of our adoptive community may need to bond together like never before to prove otherwise.
Lastly, since I know DOS reads this site - BUST THE SCUMBAGS, DEFEND CHILDREN, AND DON'T MAKE IT OUT AS IF YOU HAVE NO RESPONSIBILITY TO YOUR CITIZENS!
Statement from Focus on Adoption:
Focus On Adoption Deplores DOS's position on Guatemalan Adoptions
Today, September 25, 2007, DOS announced several reasons why prospective adoptive families should not commence an adoption from Guatemala. Not least among them was the purported intention by unnamed Guatemalan officials that the Guatemalan government intends to ignore the clear requirements of the Convention and intends to disallow in-process cases from proceeding under existing law.
Any first year law student can read the Convention and immediately grasp why this "information" is, at best, misguided and, more likely, part of the consistent pattern of the existing (and soon-to-depart) Guatemalan administration's open hostility to constitutionally protected notarial adoptions in Guatemala. DOS is keenly aware of the provisions of article 46 of the Convention and is therefore likewise fully aware that this so-called "plan" is fundamentally at odds with the processes required by the Convention for its applicability. Yet, rather than identify and challenge the patent inconsistency and illegality of the "plan," and in lieu of consulting with the agencies that are left to manage the panic the warning will inevitably produce, DOS instead chose to publish this "plan" as part of a "warning." Why?
In issuing this warning, DOS, the "Central Authority" of the United States, has acted wholly contrary to the interests of U.S. adopting families. DOS should not be "warning" of this plan; DOS should be resisting this plan. American families who are already in process have the right to expect their government to do everything within its power to protect and preserve their rights as reflected in the Convention that the U.S. has been working toward implementing for over 15 years now. DOS's assertion that it is "working closely" with others "to support Guatemala's transition to meeting its obligations under the Hague Convention" is belied by the utter failure of its "warning" to announce U.S. resistance to a "plan" the implementation of which would be in clear violation of the Convention and would directly affect thousands of American families. Why?
Indeed there are changes happening in Guatemalan adoption. Currently, there are two bills pending in the Guatemalan Congress that would bring Hague compliance to Guatemalan adoptions. One, Bill 3635, would retain much of the current architecture, including many salutary features, of the Guatemalan adoption process, while bringing needed reform to parts of the process that all agree should be reformed. Another, the so-called "Ortega law," would render intercountry adoption theoretically possible but practically impossible. The mysterious "plan" that DOS warns of is fundamentally inconsistent with the Guatemalan Constitution, as it is only the Congress who can pass legislation and determine when and how this legislation will take effect. So far the Guatemalan Congress has NOT passed either proposal into law. However, it is a matter of interest to child advocates that DOS and the Hague are strongly promoting the Ortega Law, # 3217 and the Guatemalan congress is reporting on great international pressure to pass a law which includes no funding plan or possibility of practical implementation. Yet, DOS fails to so state. Why?
FOA challenges all adopting parents to flood the U.S. Government, in all its various forms, with questions for our "Central Authority" – Why? Why? Why? Why is DOS ignoring the clear requirements of the Convention? Why is DOS failing to protect the interests of Americans who have undertaken a process in good faith? Why is DOS failing its mandate under the Convention to ensure that adoptions proceed expeditiously and according to the terms of existing law? Why is DOS supporting passage of a law which will hinder adoptions and place children in jeopardy?
Please write to your two U.S. Senators, your U.S. Congressperson, the President of the United States, and directly to DOS. Hold DOS accountable.
You can find your US Senators and Representatives at http://www.congress.org/congressorg/home/
You can write to DOS at: Main address:
U.S. Department of State
2201 C Street NW
Washington, DC 20520
Main Switchboard:
202-647-4000
TTY:1-800-877-8339 (Federal Relay Service)
Article from Prensa Libre
Adoption Law Ready
Parties agree to approve it with amendments but have not yet set a date.
By: Ana Lucía Blas
The amendments to the adoption law initiative were pacted yesterday in the Commission on Minors and the family of the congress and now should be included in the agenda of sessions so that this law will be approved before the 30th of next November as required by the application of the Hague Convention on this subject.
Rolando Morales, president of this working group, referred yesterday that they had already given their support to the law project and its amendments so that now they are only waiting for it to be programmed to discuss it in the third debate before the full body.
In this way, it would adequate the content of the Hague Convention on International Adoption to the legislation and it would facilitate putting it in practice starting next January.
Among the proposals presented by said commission, there would be created the National Counsel of Adoptions as the director of these processes, which would temporarily be assigned to the PGN and formed by the Secretary of Social Welfare, a representative of the Supreme Court of Justice, a member of congress and a member of the National Commission for Youth and Adolescents.
It was agreed that at the beginning it would be assigned to the PGN because they foresee that it will be difficult to assign resources for it to function as an autonomous entity from 2008. "We do not know not even how much money might be needed for which reason we decided that it will have to wait some time to become independent" explained Morales.
In the original initiative, that was stalled after the second reading in September of 2005, it designated the PGN as the only director of the adoption which generated divisions from various sectors including the Executive, that last July named, by a Governmental Accord, the Secretary of Social Welfare as being in charge of regulation the adoption processes.
Also in July, representatives of the Hague Conference on Private International Law, suggested that in order to avoid dissents, in the law, they should designate no just one institution but rather all who are involved in the process relatated to adoptions.
The Hague Convention, ratified by the congress last May, requires a directing body be defined to coordinate and approve all of the processes in this material.
REQUIREMENTS for ADOPTING
If the law is approved, persons interested in adoption a child would have to request it from the CNA. Once their petition is registered and they meet the requirements, the adoptive family could go to a notary to formalize the process.
A judge of Children and Adolescents would certify that the minor is adoptable before the procedures are authorized for it. The directing entity will decide if the petitioning family is suitable for the child, in accord with the best interests of the child, his right to a cultural identity, physical, medical, social-economic, psychological and other aspects.
The adoptive family and the child will have no less than 5 working days to live together and socialize while the adoption is approved. At the end of this period, a multidisciplinary team will emit an empathy report or quality of relationship established between the parents and the child.
With this, the goal is to avoid that adoptions be converted into a business which until now has generated the theft and sale of children. According to data from the Procuraduría of Human Rights, 203 minors where stolen this year by mafias in order to give them in adoption.
In 2006 there were 4496 adoptions in this country according to the PGN. Ninety eight percent were international, the majority process for US couples.
AWARE OF THE URGENCY
The majority of parties with a high representation in the congress are aware that it is urgent to approve an adoption law before the legislative period ends the 30th of November. "It cannot wait any longer" affirmed Francisco Barquín of the Patriot Party and member of the Commission of the Minor.
Another member of this commission, Conrado Garcia of the National Unity of Hope, agrees that it is necessary to regulate "such a noble action as adoption". Never the less this party has not decided if it would support the creation of the CNA.
Virna Lopez of the Great National Alliance, would support the Counsel and referred that she hopes that the law will be approved without holdups as soon as possible.
POSITIONS
INCOROPORATE RECOMMENDATIONS
Virma Lopez of the GANA party, commented yesterday that the amendments to the adoption law initiative had already incorporated the recommendations from the experts on the subject from the Hague for which it is hoped that the norm will be approved without problems.
IT WILL BE NECESSARY TO ANALYZE
Eduardo Meyer of the UNE party said that in order to know if they will support the opinion of the Commission on the Minor, first they will analyze the modifications together with the other members of their party even though their representative on the Commission had already pronounced his position.
MEMBERS OF THE PP WILL SUPPORT IT
Gudy Rivera of the PP party, referred that the law is need because many people make money with the adoptions. He added that first they will socialize the amendments in their party and if all goes well, it will be able to be approved before this legislative period concludes.
REQUIREMENTS
The norm will fix the conditions to process adoptions.
A judge of Children and Adolescents must declare that the minor can be the subject of adoption.
The National Counsel of Adoptions, the controlling authority on the material, will approve the adoption after having confirmed the empathy of the minor with the adoptive family.
It must also be watched out so that the adoption responds to the best interest of the child which will be taken into account for physical, medical, social-economic, and psychological aspects among others, both for the minor as well as for the possible adoptive parents.
It must guarantee the right of the minor to a cultural identity.
Until now, it is the notaries and attorneys who process adoptions.
In 2006 there were 4496 adoptions in the country, the majority of them processed for US couples.
ADA Response posted with the permission of Susana Luarca
THE GOVERNMENTS OF THE US AND GUATEMALA AGAINST THE CHILDREN
Today, the US Department of State announced a new warning, urging the American citizens not to commence an adoption process from Guatemala at this time, because - they say - fundamental changes in both countries will take place within the next six months.
According to the DOS warning "Guatemala has stated that it will become a Hague Convention country on January 1, 2008". The DOS also says that Guatemala will no longer do adoptions with non Hague countries, and since the US is not a Hague Convention member, it will stop doing adoptions to the US, until it ratifies the Hague Convention. When the US ratifies the Hague Convention, - projected to occur in the spring of 2008 - there may be a period of time during which we will not be able to approve adoptions from Guatemala, until Guatemala’s adoptions process provide the protection for children and families required by the Hague Adoption Convention.
In 2003, when the PGN as Central Authority for the Hague Convention, paralyzed adoptions arguing that they did not comply with the Hague Convention, and the US did not do anything to prevent it, we urged the US to assert their Third Country Status, - as stated by the Vienna Convention - to remove from the scope of the Hague Convention the adoptions done by American citizens. The US DOS did not do it. It was in Guatemala, the Court of Amparo who ruled that not being the US a party to the Hague Convention, it should not be applied to the adoptions being done by citizens of that country. The PGN refused to obey the ruling of the Amparo Court and just because at that time the Constitutional Court ruled unconstitutional the approval of Congress to the Hague Convention, that we did not proceed to press criminal charges against the PGN officers. The DOS did nothing then to help the American citizens whose adoptions were caught in the middle of the arbitrary and useless paralyzation of adoptions by the PGN.
The Hague Convention will not come into effect on January 1st., because that day is just when the approval of Congress to such convention becomes effective. The approval of Congress cannot by itself, make Guatemala a party to the Convention. The very same Hague Convention says that a country becomes a party the first day of the following month after a period of three months after the Secretary of The Hague Conference receives the document of accession or ratification. The document of accession sent by the Guatemalan president in November, 2002 cannot have effects internally in Guatemala, because the approval of the Congress to the Hague Convention in 2002 was ruled unconstitutional and therefore, such accession is null and void and cannot produce any effects in Guatemala. The US and the Guatemalan authorities know it, and that is why they forced the Congress to approve again the Hague Convention. If Guatemala would be bound by such convention, there would not have been necessary to violate again our Constitution, to become a party to the Hague Convention.
The US has been putting enormous pressure over the Guatemalan Congress to pass a proposal of adoption law known as the Ortega Law (Bill 3217), which eliminates the private care of the children, the right of the birthparents to relinquish their children or to choose who can adopt them, the notarial and judicial process of adoptions, limiting the intervention of the judge, to just ratify the administrative approval of the adoption. The appointment of the PGN as Central Authority is proven beyond any doubt that is a recipe for disaster. The role that would be played by the Secretariat of Social Welfare of the Presidency is mostly, to oversee what the private hogars would do, ignoring the fact that if they cannot charge for their services (undue benefits), not very many hogars will remain open to care for the children that no longer would be adopted. According to the UNICEF delegate, such entity will not provide anything for the children either, because the needy children are the problem of the local government, and all UNICEF cares about is that Guatemala passes laws that please the international community, according to the treaties that Guatemala is a party to.
We still have three months ahead of us to make our governments quit this game of "If you are Hague, I am Not and If I become Hague, You won’t". We used to oppose the Hague Convention because we thought that far from protecting the children and the families, it was a sand trap, where adoptions got stuck in every single country where it has been implemented. But something made us change our minds. When we read the proposal 3635, we were amazed at the way the Guatemalan Congress has found the way to implement the Hague Convention and at the same time, to keep the good features of the current system. There is a way for a country to keep adoptions open and be Hague compliant at the same time: it is with proposal 3635. But it has been ignored thus far by the US DOS, the Hague Conference and the Committee for the Child and the Family of Congress. Such proposal needs only ten million quetzals to be implemented, because the money to keep it working would come out of the processing fees of the adoptions, and the accrediting fees. The work would be done by accredited bodies and the Central Authority would be an autonomous entity, formed by delegates of the presidency (SBS and PGN), of the Judiciary, of the Congress, of the Bar Association, of the Medical Association and of the Procuraduria of Human Rights. This proposal, unlike the proposal 3217, establishes that the part of the law regarding the organization of the Central Authority, would become effective immediately, and the rest of it, six months later, to give time to the Central Authority to get organized. Also, it states that the processes of adoption started before the second part of the law becomes effective, would be finalized according to the current system as well as those processes where the authorization by the receiving country was granted before the coming into effect of the second part of the law. The Central Authority in this proposal would have the following departments: of accreditation of the different entities who would perform different tasks of the adoption proces; of orientation of the birth parents; of supervision of adoptions; of supervision of child care; of finances; and information. Those departments give the Central Authority the tools to delegate part of their functions and at the same time, to retain enough power to really supervise and oversee the processes, the children and the people who either want to adopt, or collaborate with the adoption.
The Ortega Law, besides being a maze, difficult to understand and to apply, does not have the resources to be implemented and continue working, and after depriving the private orphanages of any income, it does not clarify who will support the children who no longer be adopted. The grandfather clause tht used to be in former versions of the proposal, was eliminated in the last one. According to this ls version, the children must be presnted to Bienestar Social and after an abandonment process is finalized before a judge of the childhood and adolescence, Bienestar Social would choose the right family for each child. The law does not mention who will support the children during the years that it would take to to rule them abandoned and to exahust the possibility of placing them with the extended family or with a national family, in order to allow them to be adopted by foerign couples.
There is a way to become Hague compliant in a seamless way: the proposal 3635. To become Hague compliant just to prevent the children from being adopted, in order to stop the adoption professionals to make a profit out of the adoption, is like having a house on fire and locking the doors and windows to prevent anyone from leaving the house, because they could be mugged in the street. To protect the triad in the adoption process, the law has to be clear, easy to comply with and easy to supervise. Anything else is just a front to close down adoptions.
We are poised to file as many legal resources as necessary to prevent the Ortega Law from keeping the children to join the permanent families who are waiting for them and will do everything that is necessary to make the President understand that he has to send a new instrument of accession for the Hague to become effective. We urge you to what it takes to persuade your government to stop blaming the Guatemalan government for not being able to properly implementing the Hague Convention and at the same time, blocking any attempts at passing implementing legislation that could mean the difference between life and death for the children of Guatemala.
Message from Tom DiFilipo, President of JCICS to its members issued 9/27:
Dear Colleagues,
Based on dialogue with stakeholders in Guatemala intercountry adoption, including the Guatemalan government, the U.S. Department of State, U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services, adoption service providers, and Guatemalan attorneys, and with the support of the Joint Council Guatemala Caucus Co-chairs, the following represents Joint Council’s understanding of recent events, assessment of their impact, and immediate recommendations.
Recommendation and Call To Action
It is Joint Council’s strongest recommendation that all adoption service providers cease issuing referrals effective Monday October 1 2007. Similarly, it is our strongest recommendation that potential adoptive parents not accept any referrals issued by service providers choosing to ignore this recommendation.
Our recommendation is based on the recent announcement by the Berger administration, as reported by the U.S. Department of State. The Berger announcement clearly indicates that all intercountry adoption with the U.S. will be suspended January 1 2008.
We also strongly recommend that all potential adoptive parents and all adoption service providers join in the Joint Council effort in asking the U.S. Department of State and U.S. Congress to issue formal letters to the Guatemala government requesting that all pending adoption cases be processed through to completion under the existing process and law.
Announcement by Berger Administration
According to the U.S. Department of State, during a meeting of the international community sponsored by the Hague Permanent Bureau, the Berger administration announced the following:
* As of January 1 2008, (the date the Hague Convention goes into force in Guatemala), all adoption cases must meet Hague standards. This includes all pending (in-process) adoptions including those filed prior to January 1 2008.
* As of January 1 2008, Guatemala will not process adoptions for non-Hague countries including the U.S.
Assessment
Given that Guatemala does not currently have a functioning Hague process and the Hague Convention will not be in force for the U.S. on January 1 2008, implementation of the announcement by the Berger administration will bring all intercountry adoptions to a halt. Adoptions in process will be required to register under a new process which has yet to be identified or implemented. Should a Hague compliant system be in place on January 1 2008, the U.S. will not be a full Hague country until April 1 2008 or later and would not be permitted to participate in intercountry adoption until such time as the Hague Convention goes into force. This clearly indicates that a best case scenario is a resumption of adoptions in April 2008 through a process with unknown procedures or time-line.
In assessing the Berger announcement and its impact, Joint Council has considered the legislation pending before the Guatemalan Congress, the national elections, legal challenges and possible extension of the Hague effective date for Guatemala. We also considered the constitutionality of the President Berger’s planned actions and subsequent legal challenges. With none of these factors significantly altering our assessment, Joint Council remains confident in the prudence of our recommendation. Given the circumstances, we strongly believe that the suspension of referrals is in the best interest of children and potential adoptive parents.
There exist specific mitigating factors which could possibly preclude the suspension of adoptions. These include the possible push back of the date the Convention goes into force in Guatemala from January 1 to April 1 2008. It is also possible that one of the two pieces of legislation currently before the Guatemalan Congress will be passed prior to December 31 2007. Additionally challenges to the legal premise upon which the Berger suspension is based. Joint Council continues to strongly advocate and remains actively engaged in efforts to push the effective date to April 1 2008 and to pass Hague compliant legislation. If events occur that significantly alter our current assessment, we will revise this recommendation immediately. Until such time however, our current recommendation and Call to Action stand.
We again call on all adoption service providers and potential adoptive parents to join us in our call for a ‘grandfather’ clause covering all adoptions currently in process.
Best Wishes,
Tom
I haven't freaked out on the process and potential for a shut down up to this point, but this notice is quite frightening. I just received PA and can't seem to get confirmation that FC has been completed so I can get into PGN. I hope I can get in and OUT before processes are stopped. I knew the risks involved with Guatemala adoptions as this is our second and am still confident that we will be able to complete this adoption, but I have to admit this one scares me!!
Posted by: Stephanie at September 25, 2007 01:40 PMWow, my heart is pumping on this one! We have been in PGN for 4 weeks today, and this is not what I needed to read. I pray for all cases in process and our little ones waiting for us.
Anyone every had luck in contacting the PGN?
Well if this is the DOS's position on pending cases, I certainly hope they do have a plan to streamline all of the current legal cases. This is pretty unsettling.
Posted by: In process mom at September 25, 2007 02:33 PMConsider me a trifle freaked. I don't know how "Guatemalan officials" can promise a change in laws when it has to pass through the legislature, but the potential lack of a grandfather clause is enough to disturb me.
Posted by: Nick B. at September 25, 2007 02:44 PMI too just rec'd PA, but not out of family court just yet, so as I wait to get into PGN and visit my baby next week - how can they not let us complete the adoption - he is my child as far as I am concerned. This scares the beejebbies out of me!!!!!!
Posted by: Nicole R. at September 25, 2007 02:45 PMAre they saying that Guatemala will stop processing cases to the U.S. on Jan 1 if we are not Hague compliant, then after we become Hague compliant we will stop processing cases to Guat because they aren't Hague compliant? This is crazy!
I've been in PGN one week after a KO from the first reviewer, there is no telling what the second reviewer will think of our file. Trying not to freak out here, but finding it a little hard not to.
I'm not sure the DOS means by "pending" - do they mean "pending" POA forms or "pending" in PGN, or what...
I'm just numb right now. I feel so let down by everyone right now.
Posted by: jlr at September 25, 2007 03:12 PMI'm a little confused and hope someone can clarify this for me. I knew Guatemala was going to ratify the Hague by Jan 1, but I thought there was a three month period after that before any real changes would take effect. Therefore, ratifying Jan 1 would mean May 1st for the actual changes to take effect. The U.S. has said the same thing on their end. Anyone?
Posted by: Debbie at September 25, 2007 03:18 PMHi everyone,
I agree with the previous post. These are scary times. I don't understand why the Guatemalan government would not allow cases that are "in process" to be put forth for approval before the deadline of December 31st. To make "in process" cases meet Hague standards is beyond unfair to those families already waiting for their children. A dear friend of mine is adopting two chidren as a single parent. It seems to me that Guatemalan officials are saying that if her two children don't get out of PGN] before the deadline they will never be hers because under Hague singles can't adopt? I'm on pins and needles for her right now. I'm not even going to tell her of this looming threat until I learn more myself. Please continue to post any information that you can. The U.S. Department of State warning does not scare me as much as the statement by the Guatemalan officials.
Jean
Posted by: Jean at September 25, 2007 03:25 PMThis is very scary. We've been in PGN for about 2 weeks but this reads as if that may not matter. How can they legally or ethically cut off in-process adoptions??? Who can we call or pester the &*#$ out of to make sure we get our kids home??? I've heard that PGN is speeding up, has anyone else heard this??
Posted by: Jerry at September 25, 2007 03:27 PMThis scares me also and as soon as any information becomes available please let us all know. Just post a list of who we need to email or write and I will be all over it - just like everyone else here
Posted by: Angie at September 25, 2007 03:30 PMAs difficult as this is to accept, I DOS just set out a clear statement as to agencies that are still taking on new cases (as per the "should agencies close" thread). It is time for adoption professionals to stop and just focus on finishing up what is started. To do anything else is unethical.
Posted by: karenms1 at September 25, 2007 03:32 PMI would like to know....who are these officials?
Posted by: karla at September 25, 2007 03:40 PMDidn't Susana from ADA say that any law that was passed, whether it be Ortega or 3635, would contain a grandfather clause for cases in process to proceed under the old laws????
Posted by: JLT at September 25, 2007 03:54 PMI find it unbelievable that our own government is so heartless. This just sickens me to no end. We are in PGN but there are no guarantees that they will sign off on any more cases. I just cannot believe that NO ONE not Guatemalan govt not the US govt has these poor innocent childs best interest at heart.
Posted by: Karen at September 25, 2007 04:00 PMIs there some reason why we can't get a straight answer on whether our adoptions will be completed or not? It seems like such a simple question. If you aren't working with a questionable agency, is it safe to assume your adoption will proceed? Are you saying Kevin that you have heard that they will try to speed up in process cases and clear them by Jan. 1, because that would certainly be good news for a change. Or are we going to be caught in a legal quagmire with no backing from our own country even though they themselves have kept right on issuing preapproval. It seems to me that it would have been better for the DOS to stop allowing Guatemalan adoptions versus all of these ambiguous, uncertain, conflicting, "maybe this will happen, maybe it won't" type statements. This is beyond maddening and the second time we've been through (2003)this although this time it seems much worse.
Posted by: contessa at September 25, 2007 04:14 PMI thought the US was already Hague compliant and if so, why would Guatelama not continue with the adoptions with our country?
Posted by: Brenda at September 25, 2007 04:35 PMThis is a tough one to not freak out about...we have been in PGN 2x now..and are currently awaiting a birth certificate correction to be re-submitted. It is sounding like they are now LOOKING for reasons to KO cases so they can get to the end of the year. I look forward to comments and viewpoints of others more in "the know" than I am.
Lynn
It scares me. Thankfully I am waiting for Pink or I would be really freaking out as I am single. I feel for everyone that is going to get caught in this mess and for those with children at CQ whose future is uncertain due to the investigations. Saying a pray for everyone that things turn around.
Posted by: Kristan at September 25, 2007 04:54 PMwhat about the families that entered into contracts in good faith before any warnings were issued??? i.e. January 2007. We will be "Out of Luck" because the DOS can't stand up to Guatemala when they have already issued statements to the effect of grandfathering cases that were started before the end of the year???!!!
Who is there to write or call or email to get some action, I am sick of trying to contact Senators and getting some canned response. Also wondering what you have heard regarding cases being streamlined - does this mean PGN since this is where the biggest delays come from?
Thanks
Posted by: s at September 25, 2007 05:01 PMwe are stuck in a appeal process,
so we are worried, what can we do to get the DOS's attention on this.
cxl my last post, hit the button too soon.
We can we do as a group. An letter writting campaign?
I was worried until I got past the tones of the message and focused on content. Can I translate?
Sam says "I know I didn't do my homework (US on hague). So to get the attention on someone else I will make a big deal about Johnny not doing his homework (Guatemala on Hague). Instead of focusing on my own homework I will offer to help Johnny so everybody says what a good boy I am. I'm going to warn everyone what a bad boy Johnny is and noone should play with him. I plan on finishing my homework sometime in the spring next year (the homework I said I was going to do spring of this year but hopefuly noone remembers that) and if Johnny doesn't get his act together I won't let anyone play with him at that time."
Johnnys says "Oh yeah? Well, I plan on having my homework done at the start of the year. When that happens I won't play with other children who haven't done their homework."
So essentially we are talking about the period between the beginning of the year *if* Guatemala really goes Hague at that time and Spring when the US thinks they will enact Hague. And the US has already said repeatedly they will not allow adoptions from Guatemala once they go Hague.. which was earlier then this spring, then this spring, then start of the year, then spring again. How is this any different from their messages earlier this year? The only difference is now Guatemala says it will be Hague by first of the year. Doable? Dunno. Hague countries can adopt from other Hague countries there may be just some tweaking to the new process. So they aren't saying stopping all adoptions.
Am I missing something because thats all I see with the statement other than the ominous tone used.
Posted by: mom at September 25, 2007 05:15 PMOur case just entered PGN last Friday and I'm curious if other families that are in the same phase as us are scared of a shut down of all in-process cases. Our agency seems pretty confident that our case will finish out, and I have to have that hope otherwise I get really anxious and scared. I'm interested if anyone else feels this way, and if anyone knows what PGN's timeframes are lately. Thank you for your help.
Posted by: JaNae at September 25, 2007 05:45 PMI'm usually level headed about these things and don't get freaked out. I'm in week 4 of PGN and frankly, I want to throw up -- literally. This roller coaster ride is making me a bit sick. I truly hope that PGN is streamlining things and moving cases along. That would be the only positive that can come out of this.
Posted by: MamitoAlberto at September 25, 2007 07:30 PMAs someone who has an adoption pending, it sickens me that I voted for the Bush administration and that I had a misguided respect for Condaleeza Rice(Secretary of State). Her Department of State is apparently abandoning U.S. Citizens, who legitimately pursued Guatemalan adoptions, for political correctness. Why are they not protecting U.S citizens FIRST!!
Will the PGN and the DOS stand up for the 4000+ children left in utter poverty after they close the process down. The answer is NO! They will ignore the economic and social ramifications of their decisions.
One last point, the adoption agengies are reaching a point of liability with this latest DOS warning. They have a fiduciary responsibility to not start any new cases since they are accepting very large sums of money.
I have one case for our daughter on appeal, to be decided by appeals court. I have another case for our son that just got back into PGN after KO. Not sure what this means for us and others in the middle of adoption. What is going on here?
Posted by: Jackie at September 25, 2007 07:45 PMWe went into PGN initially in early August and have had one kickout. Not sure if we are back in yet though because I can't get anyone to tell me. But, I am very scared. We started working on our adoption over a year ago and never thought we would still be waiting and now it may never end. I would love for someone to tell me that PGN is going to try to move quickly to get as many as possible out!
Posted by: Kelly at September 25, 2007 07:46 PMPlease, let's all call the DOS and make them accountable for their statements. Their phone number is:
1-202-736-9090 They are open 8am-8pm M-F.
You can also write them or e-mail them:
For general children's issues questions concerning international parental child abduction or general intercountry adoption questions, you may e-mail AskCI@state.gov.
For questions that deal with the implementation of the Hague Adoption Convention, you may e-mail AdoptionUSCA@state.gov.
U.S. Department of State
2201 C Street NW
Washington, DC 20520
Main Switchboard:
202-647-4000
TTY:1-800-877-8339 (Federal Relay Service)
We have to stick together on this, EVERY SINGLE baby needs to come home!!!
Let's ask them what "pending" means? Let's ask them how this is in the best interests of the innocent children? Let's ask them how they plan to protect the PAP's that entered into a good faith agreement with a foreign country? Let's ask them "Which" officials informed them of these plans?
We have to act as a cohesive support group like never before. Make DOS answer these questions.
Posted by: J at September 25, 2007 07:54 PMWe have been KO'd from PGN three times since March of this year. Our case is being resubmitted to PGN next week.
We are very concerned of what lies ahead. It is not reassuring when I read the DOS's statement. I, too, feel like our hands are tied. Contrary to what the statement said, I HOPE there is some kind of resolution for a grandfather clause for cases already filed.
To all currently involved in the adoption process, please know that you are not alone.
Posted by: Andy at September 25, 2007 08:02 PMwell, like the previous poster said - fine stop the adoptions and agencies should stop taking clients, etc. and let our cases finish up and get these kids home. These are our kids now and I want my son home with me. This is just crazy - sad as it may be to stop adoptions from Guatemala, but don't funish us in-process cases.
Posted by: Nicole R. at September 25, 2007 08:03 PMKevin,
How good are your rumor sources telling you PGN is preparing to streamline and "clear the pipes"? Just wondering. Your sources for the 2nd DNA test was spot on so I'm just hoping this is correct to. Can you tell us how comfortable you are with your sources? We are clinging to anything here, come on! (-:
Posted by: KC at September 25, 2007 08:08 PMI have been in PGN for about 8-9 weeks with no KO's. I don't know if that is good or bad. We have called PGN and told we are with the 2nd reviewer. The staff spoke English and was very nice when we called to check on the case status. In the past I have heard PGN is working on month and week being processed. Does anyone know where PGN is with the cases?
Posted by: still in pgn at September 25, 2007 08:55 PMI have been in PGN for about 8-9 weeks with no KO's. I don't know if that is good or bad. We have called PGN and told we are with the 2nd reviewer. The staff spoke English and was very nice when we called to check on the case status. In the past I have heard PGN is working on month and week being processed. Does anyone know where PGN is with the cases?
Posted by: still in pgn at September 25, 2007 08:55 PMJaNae, our agency tells their clients to count on being in PGN at least 8-12 weeks. We have been in PGN since June 22. Had 1 previo so far, and we were resubmitted on August 14. Our agency told us to count on 8 more weeks after you are resubmitted after a previo. We hope to be out of PGN within the next 2 weeks, if, we have no more previos or "kickouts". I feel like everyone else. Very anxious and afraid that our case will not finalized for some reason and I will never get to bring my little girl home. I can't imagine going back to life without her in my future. I would be totally devastated if I don't get her. I pray everyday for our case and everyone else out there in this mess. I'm not a real religious person, but I feel like prayer is all we have at this point.
Posted by: Lisa at September 25, 2007 09:14 PMThis is bad news from the DOS. As far as time frames for the PGN it seems to be going very slow. Our case was finally released last week after entering the PGN on March 20. We had 2 previos.
Posted by: jeni at September 25, 2007 09:21 PMHere's my take on it at this point: The US DOS has done what it can to stop US adoptions from Guatematla. Any agency that refers a child from today forward will be liable to the PAP's no matter what their contract says. This gives the DOS an easy out. They have done what they set out to do from the beginning of 2007 to do...stop US Guatemalan adoptions...Thanks DOS!
Posted by: Stephanie at September 25, 2007 10:47 PMWhat's scaring me is PGN does not seem to be picking up. Also, USE is still taking too long to issue PA's!
Kevin, I would love to know what you know about "clearing the pipe". I'm not seeing it, but would like to think there's hope.
Clearing the pipes was a rumor I have heard from a few places - and one that would make sense all things considered. I would consider it a ray of hope but not something to be banked on.
As always, if we say something is rumor it means that we have not validated it as true. When we state something as certainty, as we did with second DNA, it means we have have it validated. Basic good journalistic principles - at least someone has them in regard to adoption.
Kevin
Guatadopt.com
I am also one of those "confused" Am I reading or understanding something wrong? Why does it say that if Guatemala becomes Hague compliant then the US won't continue and vice versa.... I thought that was what they wanted to happen??? I must be reading something wrong here....clarify please, someone...anyone....????? We have been in PGN since August 13th with PA and have had a k/o but are back in as of last Tuesday. I hope it moves fast, our baby girl turned 6 months old last Friday. We are also in process with two older siblings and will just be having family court on Friday.... I would feel horrible for them if they get caught up in a shut down as they are totally looking forward to coming home and having a family. They would be devestated. They talk all the time of their excitement and keep asking why it is taking so long? GOOD QUESTION!!!
Posted by: margo engberg at September 26, 2007 12:06 AMTo Willie and others:
The number definitely works to PGN. The lady was able to give me a status of where we were and told me that I could call every 2-weeks.
Dial the string like this----------------011-502-2248-3200-------------wait until the pre-recorded message is finished completely and then enter the ext. 2037-------when someone answers just simply ask in spanish "tu habla ingles" if she does not she will get someone that does. She will ask you for your PGN case number and within seconds you will have your answers. This is a God send for me to just no where we stand.
A really big thank you KELLY!!!
for posting this on a previous thread. The report and where it was found on the DOS site is interesting to me in itself, notice that it was not posted in the current news events where most info from them is found regarding Guatemalan adoptions, instead it was posted where new PAPs that may not have cleared the hurdle with CIS regarding I-171's. They may be saying that they will not get clearance by Jan.1st if they are just now starting the process and hopefully not that they are going back on their comittment to grandfather in all those with cleared I-171's. With regards to the Guatemalan side I think that the date of Jan.1 is unrealistic unless there is a law change to amend their Constitution coming about real quick.
Susana, do you have any info?
God is able,
Paul
I was certainly alarmed by the DOS statement, but even more so by some of these reactions to it.
My take was that the U.S. knows that laws will be changing next year so it wants to slow down the process and stop agencies from beginning new cases right now, which seams reasonable. At the same time, if it was there intent not to proceed with in-process cases, wouldn't they have come out and said it now -- or even earlier this year? My understanding -- and my agency tells me they were directly promised this -- that all people with 171s on file would be grandfathered in.
Maybe I am just looking for a silver lining, but I find it encouraging that the language of this statement is vague. I mean couldn't DOS just have ordered a halt to new cases at some point?
Anyone?
I thank the person who gave the Sam and Johnny scenario because it gave me the strength to go and analyze the DOS statement from sentence to sentence. I don't think they have said anything new except that they believe from their Guatemalan sources that Guatemala will not process in process cases after Dec 31. of this year. Perhaps they are right, but I will not believe this until Guatemala says this for absolute certainty.
I think this is just one more doom and gloom warning to people considering a new adoption in Guatemala. The first and last sentence of the warning show it's clear intention as a warning to people considering new adoptions in Guatemala.
Posted by: Selma at September 26, 2007 01:27 AMThe response of ADA to the DOS statement is at It is at http://www.adaguatemala.org/English/news/
Feel free to reproduce it entirely.
Susana Luarca
A few months back I got an email from the DOS.I had written to them before starting a 2nd adoption back in June. I will admit that at that time they specifically wrote to me and said the US Government did not intend to disrupt adoptions in process at the time the "change" occurred, but that they could in no way guarantee what the Guatemalan government could do nor could they control the decisions they made. I had to go into it with my eyes open but I decided it was worth the risk. Now my worst fear may be coming through as the DOS statment clearly states "pending" adoptions could be disrupted by the Guatemalan government. We must all take action and not sit idly by. And when I say ALL I mean even parents whose adoptions have long since been finished to please join us in process and take a stand so innocent babies do not get lost in a bureaucratic shuffle. Waiting for others to take action will not do. We really have to do something. I take this as more than just a warning. It appears to be more of a "what to expect" document and we can't try to second-guess what they are telling us. It would be best to assume what they are saying is accurate and to try to take steps to implore the Guatemalan government does not disrupt in process adoptions. Let's all write our legislative representatives NOW to bring mass attention to this issue. Good luck to everyone. Looks like we may need it. Take care, Christina
Posted by: Christina at September 26, 2007 05:17 AMSusanna, if you're reading, do you know anything about the disruption of in process cases? Didn't you say that ALL the laws before Congress, even Ortega, contained the grandfather clause? Is it really possible for a law to be passes without it?? Thanks.
Posted by: JLT at September 26, 2007 08:09 AMPaul,
Thank you for the PGN phone number. How do you know what your PGN case number is? I will have to inquire with our agency.
God bless
In response to time-frames in PGN, We were in PGN for 2 months exactly, then kicked out for Pre-Approval (knew we would be). Our agency is telling us the wait is "2 months everytime you go back into PGN. That is the only consistent part of the process right now."
Posted by: Kim at September 26, 2007 09:17 AMIf you want to do more than send a fax to your state rep and senators you can go in person to them. I just got off the phone with my state rep's office. They have weekly outreach hours in my home state. You can also schedule a meeting with someone from their office in D.C., so if you are going to D.C. for the adoption conference why not try to meet with your senators and state reps there? I have done this before as a member of RESOLVE. You can go solo or with a group. I think it helps if you have written information that includes the steps you would like them to take (and maybe one of those Guatadopt calendars on clearance ;-)). The people you meet with will most likely provide you with their business email. The next time you want to contact their office I think there is a better chance someone will read what you write. Keep fighting the good fight.
Jenn in PA
Posted by: Jennifer at September 26, 2007 09:40 AMOn another thought- how do we get Guatemalan officials & congress, UNICEF and others in Guatemala with influence to take a look at the alternative to the Ortega law? Susana implies it is being ingnored/overlooked . Is it out of line for US AP's and PAP's to write/email/appeal to Guatemalan officials/UNICEF to consider what we have to say- as we are the ones opening our homes to these children, we are the ones financing the care of "their" children. I think we have some right to be heard by them. They are not doing us any favors by allowing us to adopt their children, they need to remember it is a solid demonstration of the dedication they have to their children to make sure they are in a loving, stable family, something EVERY child born to this world deserves.
Someone please start a thread on the wonderful things about Guatemala, aside from adoption and government, something to remind us of why our hearts are so drawn to this country.(and especially for those of us who have not had the opportunity yet to live/travel much in country). It is sometimes difficult to think of how I am going to teach my child pride in his birth-country, when I feel so much disappointment in it's representatives' behavior.
Currently, as positives, I have the contact with his incredibly loving foster family and the beautiful landscape.
Praying for the opening of hearts and minds of all, to remember who is in charge, and that HE has charged us with the care of his precious children.
Posted by: momto1 at September 26, 2007 11:04 AMAs US citizens, it is entirely appropriate for us to expect our Department of State to engage in a rational, logical, and ethical manner--and we must demand this. However, it has NEVER been wise to think that we could control the Guatemalan government...it is an incredibly UNSTABLE nation. Its adoption standards are so loose (i.e. one attorney can represent all) because it has lacked a civil structure of family codes. Ideally, codes should protect ALL involved, including PAPs. As a result, recourse is now a significant problem NO MATTER what the Embassy can or cannot do at this point. Frankly, as I have said before, adoption agencies in this country should be strung up for continuing to accept new cases--the situation was just TOO unstable as Guatadopt and the Embassy pointed out this past year. Now, the question is JUST HOW MANY cases will be left unresolved. This is very sad and the CQ crisis was the tip of the iceberg.
Posted by: karenms1 at September 26, 2007 11:13 AMwillie
I called and they know the case number if you give them the name of the child. Ours is past one reviewer and going on to another after which I am told goes to signature. I am trying hard not to hold my breath
Posted by: tam at September 26, 2007 11:22 AMDOS phone number, the person in charge of Intercountry adoptions and the Hague statements according to the DOS receptionist is:
Tina Leone she can be reached at (202) 736-9075. I just left her a voice message asking for clarification and outlining our position. Please call, it can't hurt for her to hear our pleas. ~Melissa T.
Posted by: Melissa at September 26, 2007 11:25 AMAll-
The number for the DOS children's issues is 202-736-9130.
To Willie:
My experience is that your agency normally receives a faxed or scanned copy of this receipt as proof from the notary in Guatemala that entry into PGN has in fact taken place. I requested rather sternly that a scanned copy be sent to me once PGN entry had happened. The copy shows the PGN and logo along with the number, the childs name and the adoptive families last name. The Blessed Hope of Jesus be with you and your family.
Trusting in Him,
Paul
Posted by: Paul C. at September 26, 2007 12:12 PMIs it possible that we could clearly forge some sort of template or statement that is concise and to the point to email or bring to our governmental representatives regarding this latest DOS issue? Any one out there already do this that would care to share? Not only that, but we could start it as an on-line petition... I know plenty of friends and relatives that would voice their vote if given the platform. Susan
Posted by: Susan at September 26, 2007 12:35 PMAfter reading the DOS statement, the comments from ADA and from FOA I have to say or think... that this just sounds like another "plot" from the out going administration of the Guatemalan Governement ( aka: the Bergers) to once again force their views and philosophy of ICA. WHAT in heavens name does Wendy Berger have against precious orphans finding loving homes? Geesh..... shame on her, especially in light that she is a U.S. citizen!!! Can you tell I have a real problem with this person?
In all honesty -- I believe they really, really want that $$$ that the Unicef is dangling before them if they do shut things down.
At one time that amount was in the millions -- kevin - do you know if UNICEF is still putting some money on the table if Guat does close down? That was the case in years past.....
In any case, I believe we are witnessing "politics" in action... and yes it makes me *ill* because for the DOS and Guatemala's govt it may just be "politics" but for the parents in process it's about a child..... a dream..... a family......
And of course for the children.......it's all the hope they have in the world right now for a decent, loving, and safe home..... and future........
That is what makes me so very sad...... I honestly think that those that "be in the powers that be" really could care less about these precious children and families........ I wonder how many DOS officials and such are adoptive parents?? How many members of Guat's congress and PGN staff are adoptive parents???Hmmmmm........
Praying with all my heart right now.........it' going to take a miracle...
Gloria
mom to 5 Guatemalan blessings
May I make one more suggestion: In your comments to the DOS, I would encourage people to ask (if not demand) additional temporary at the US Embassy to help process the current PAs and PINKs. If they would only increase the staffing for 30 to 60 days to "clear the pipes", so to speak, that would reduce SIGNIFICANT time off of the adoption process. (There is no reason PAs should be taking 60 days). And, unlike thier claims regarding everything else related to the Guatemalan adoption process,they cannot say that they have no control over that portion of the process. My thoughts, prayers, and political letter-writing is with all the in-process families.
Kuma
Posted by: kuma at September 26, 2007 01:52 PMShawn C and Jackie,
We are one of the other families on appeal. We would love to talk to both of you.
Kevin,
How can families in similar circumstances communicate with each other privately? In some ways, our issue is the same as everyone in process - we are stuck and may not complete before December 31st. In other ways, our case is different, scary because of its unknown and being entwined in some political turf war (we were kicked out of PGN twice and refiled with a higher court - also with authority to rule on adoptions, but now being contested by PGN on appeal).
We appreciate everyone who has helped us in the process and are looking for more answers to what's going to happen to our baby - someone who we have known and loved for over a year now.
In a letter from our agency director and Guat program coordinator, we were told that the Guat Congress and some attorneys have been working to extend the Jan. 1 deadline for implementing the Hague-compliant laws an additional six months (meaning July 1). This is from our attorney, who has been doing this for 20+ years and seems well-informed and politically involved. Nonetheless, as per Guatadopt's reporting rules, this is rumor. But, to Kevin, Kelly, Marie, do you know the basis of her assertion, and is it at all likely to happen if it is more than rumor?
Posted by: Nick B. at September 26, 2007 03:18 PMI just got off the phone a bit ago with Tina Leoni with the state department. It was my fifth or sixth call today and she actually picked up. Apparently she has been talking a lot on the phone. I wish I had a tape recorder. I did not. And I did not get any specifics. But here is a synopsis. Keep in mind these are not direct quotes (except when in quotation marks) but my paraphrasing of her comments.
Ms. Leoni said the sources came from members of the Guatemalan government that they are in regular contact with, and have been. She would not disclose whether these were elected officials or government employees. She said that the DOS was not aware that the Guatemalan government plans, come Jan. 1, 2007, to end pending adoptions (not complete them), until just before they issued the warning yesterday. When I asked her if the U.S. was surprised, she said no, because the DOS has been aware, and issuing statements, about the uncertainties of Guatemalan adoptions. I asked her to define ‘pending’ She said “there is no universally agreed upon definition.” I pressed her, saying that if DOS has been in regular contact with these Guatemalan government officials surely they would understand each other’s intent when using the word ‘pending’. She said, “Our working understanding is cases in process, not completed.”
I asked her how, if they were not surprised about the apparent decision to not complete pending cases come Jan. 1, why was DOS continuing to approve I600A applications even as we speak. She said everything is tentative. Including this new information.
She said the DOS is not leaving PAPs out on their own. She said DOS is actively engaging the Guatemalan government to have them consider a transition phase that would allow pending adoptions to be completed. I asked her how they are engaging the Guatemalan government… she said they are having meetings and discussions.
I asked her if the Guatemalan government revealed any plans for how they would care for the hundreds, if not thousands of children that will be in limbo come Jan. 1… the children that have been relinquished by their birthparents. She did not have an answer.
I asked her if DOS officials asked the Guatemelan government sources they are in contact with how those government officials plan to pull off something that would be illegal by their Constitutional standards (illegal in that they cannot enforce laws retroactively). She said that is why the DOS is working with the Guatemalan government to have a transitional plan for pending adoptions.
I asked how the Guatemalan government officials with whom DOS is working think they can circumvent Hague Convention regulations that state the regs cannot go into effect until three months and one day have passed since the country becomes Hague compliant. She had no answer.
All in all, she did not shed any real light on the situation. Of course I do appreciate her taking the time to speak with me. I tried not to be to emotional or combative, but of course I did get a little adamant a few times, particularly when questions were not *really* answered. Finally, she did reiterate that DOS is not sitting idly by, but working on this.
Posted by: Beth Bacheldor at September 26, 2007 05:12 PMWith the upcoming changes predicted over the next 6 months and the uncertainty of what will happen after January 1st, I feel like I need to prepare myself to expect more and more delays. Delays are always a possibility with any international adoption, and Guatemala is no different. Of course, I do want to stay optimistic and I hope this time of transition will go smoothly and bring about the necessary changes to Guatemalan adoptions.
Posted by: kgm1 at September 26, 2007 06:27 PMAwesome job Beth! I'm not sure how you held it together to get that much information. I tried calling Tina as well and got a recording. What puzzles me is why she said the DOS is trying to come up with a transition plan for pending adoptions. Why didn't they write this in their warning? Who in the he## writes this garbage. It's really unfathomable with the information that they know, that they continue to issue I-600s. Thanks Beth. Erik
Posted by: Erik at September 26, 2007 06:46 PMOk, so I have a question... They state that the big date is January 1st. I wonder how this would work seeing as how January 1st is a holiday. I also wonder, when do they break for holiday and when do they return? For some reason, I was under the impression that they shut down for Christmas in the middle of December.
Posted by: RC at September 26, 2007 07:00 PMBeth,
Great job getting through to DOS! Sounds like you were about as polite as can be expected, but didn't let her off the hook. When you really start asking questions to a real person about this statement it really points out the rediculousness of the DOS position.
Nick B,
Oh how I pray that your rumor is for real... even if it is just a rumor, I think it will allow me to get a little sleep tonight.
Let's keep the pressure on!
Lo
Beth,
You asked Ms. Leoni "how do they plan to pull off something that would be illegal by their constitutional standards." her reply was that they are working on a transitional phase. To everyone, Ms. Leoni answer has nothing to do with constitutionality. A transition phase and the constitutionality of the particular process that they decide to implement are entirely different issues. You can have a transition phase for a process that is unconstitutional.
Boy, I can tell that DOS has their ducks in a row. No big surprise there.
Posted by: cheryl at September 26, 2007 08:04 PMMy mom and I both spoke to different people from the DOS. We were both told the same thing. First we were told that the DOS is working with Guat to make sure that whatever legislation is passed, that language is included to allow those in process to continue under the old process. Also we were told that the statement was issued to scare off or weed out potential new cases. All in all, I felt confident that DOS is doing what they can for those of us who are in process.
Posted by: shannon at September 26, 2007 08:14 PMWe just received an official message from our agency as well.
To me, this is a breath taking historic moment and we ought to join hands to make a difference.
I still have deep faith in the intentions of the US Government -- fair and compassionate to its citizens. All PAPs, particularly the ones in process, should and can make this an issue hard for our reps to ignore.
Beyond flooding congressional offices with letters and phone calls, can 5000 to 6000 of us not do a silent march in Washington as an appeal to our authorities to discourage Guat government from taking this diabolic step? I am sure our government will do everything to protect the interest of its in-process law-abiding, and average citizens and those thousands of innocent children of Guatemala, waiting for bright sun shine that they have every right to.
Has anyone heard or seen where JCICS stands on this?
Thanks,
Paul
Posted by: Paul at September 26, 2007 10:25 PMBeth, you did an amzing job remembering all of the conversation. Thank you. What scares me is that the US has always said that they protect young democracy, yet clearly our DOS is helping the Guatemalan officials break their own Constition with abuse of power unimaginable.
Posted by: Linda at September 26, 2007 10:27 PMThis last statement makes me feel a little better....I also spoke with my agency this afternoon and asked what I should be taking from this statement and basically she said that everyone in process will prob. be okay (past i-171) just get though asap. I feel a little more confident my son will be coming home, we're in PGN.
Posted by: Angie H. at September 26, 2007 11:09 PMI wrote the DOS Head of Bilateral Adoptions Unit in charge of Guatemala today. Here is the response I received.
Thank you for your letter. I certainly appreciate your concerns and understand that intercountry adoption can be a long, complicated process.
In response to your question, I want to note that there is no universally agreed definition of a "pending case" precisely because intercountry adoption is a complex procedure involving a number of relatively distinct legal processes in both the sending and receiving country. In your case, you are dealing with regulations from the State of Florida, the Department of Homeland Security, the Department of State, and the Government of Guatemala. Each of these entities could potentially have a somewhat different definition of a "pending case."
Let me say, however, that we (in the Department of State and at our Embassy in Guatemala City) are urging the Government of Guatemala to find ways to complete all cases that have already been filed with the Guatemalan government. We understand that at least one version of the legislation proposed before the Guatemalan Congress does include language about transition cases. We would like to see transition provisions that would allow adoptions to be completed under the current rules for all children who have already been matched with prospective adoptive parents. We will continue to work toward that goal.
Gerry Fuller
I'd go with the march/demostration idea broached by Phil. I live in DC as do lots of other in process PAP's. Does anyone else think this is a good idea? I'm frankly scared to death & I hope there will be no shut down of in process cases but my worst fears seem to be coming true....
Posted by: Susan at September 26, 2007 11:56 PMI also got through to the DOS today. I had a civilized debate with this woman who kept trying to shut me down and tell me that the DOS is doing everything they can to help the American Citizens, but that this is not my child and the child is not an American citizen until they are issued a Visa. I acknowledged that, but reminded her that I entered into a good faith agreement that the process would be DNA, PA, PGN, etc and was given a referral and that referral IS my daughter from day 1 whether she wants to accept that or not. I asked her if she thought it would make me a good parent if I just turned my back on this little girl now who could be sentenced to life in an orphanage just because she's not legally mine (yet) by the process under which I signed up? Reminder #1 to her was that I signed up under one process and they cannot just change the process in the middle (maybe they can, but I will fight for any rights I had to the original process). I also reminded her that there are thousands of children that will be stuck in this mess if our politician's and leaders can't get their act together. That our birthmother is placing our daughter for adoption because she cannot care for her. It's not like a game of red-rover where if we can't adopt her, she'll take her back.
She threw in the CQ card and tried to tell me that birth mother's of CQ children were beaten to death and their children stolen. I asked her if she knew for a fact that CQ or their attorney's were guilty of this and she said she couldn't answer that...but yet wasn't afraid to say it previously. I told her that while I have no idea if that is true, anyone committing crimes should be prosecuted and punished. Both governments should DO their jobs...track down the criminals and take care of the situation rather than shut the whole thing down. I also pointed out to her that I knew about Mary Bonn and RAI and that I was not knew to Guatemalan adoptions.
I also asked that "if" the DOS is doing everything they can to help American Citizens, then they should publish that. I told her what we got yesterday was a notice of the illegal plans Guatemala is going to implent and then a "your on your own" from our government. She went on to tell me that the DOS is working on a transitional plan with Guateamala, but that Guatemalan adoptions are taking up way too much of their office's time as it is and she is the only one that is supposed to be working on Guatemala, now 4 people are. (Hmmmm, maybe the US DOS's motivation to shut the whole system down). She told me that the U.S. has no influence over Guatemala. I almost jumped through my phone but calmly reminded her of the many times that the U.S. has influenced Guatemala for political and economic gain and that these were children we were talking about not dried goods.
PLEASE! If you have 5 minutes call them. Let them know what their message did to all of us yesterday. Let them know that we want answers (which Guatemalan officials said this?). And let them know that we need their support as we entered into this process with "good faith", they cannot just abandon us and our children.
1-202-736-9090 They are open 8am-8pm M-F.
The lady I was talking to had to go off to a conference call with Guatemala, which is another reason I don't think this is over. Be prepared for them to shut you down, but just remind them these are children and we are the people who love them. We only want our government's help to "do the right thing".
Posted by: Jaimee ("in-process" adoptive mother) at September 27, 2007 12:36 AMTO BTGC,
we and other families in the same situatuion have started a support group. Please email Kevin or kelly of guatadopt and ask them for my email info
thanks,
Shawn
Posted by: shawn cartwright at September 27, 2007 01:13 AMThank You Paul and Tam for your responses. With my husband and I's case being in PGN it is horrifying to know that we could potentially sit in PGN for months, and then have the Guatemalan Goverment turn around and stop adoptions when we have been waiting on their approval for 4 weeks now. My heart goes out to all in process cases, and I pray that something will work out so everyone can bring their children home. I can't imagine finding out that after all this time our little Elena will not be able to come home and be left to who knows what after that happens.
Reside in God's stregth and know he will get us through.
If you do a silent march remember it would get attention but you would need to designate spokespeople and have anyone asked questions point to the spokespeople. I know that sounds funny but someone is going to speak so be prepared for that. Otherwise you will get X people out there, the press will come, they will interview one parent who will mean one thing but say another or what they say will get blown out of context, and it would do more damage. Many of you are very eloquent and would do a great job but not all APs are necessarily educated enough to debate or might be comfortable with speaking.
Posted by: mom at September 27, 2007 08:39 AMIm with Phil and Susan. I would go and march/demonstarte. We would for sure get on the news and make our concerns heard.
Terri
Thanks Paul and Tam for the info.
Hopefully I will get a chance to call.
I am having a hard time with the fact that right now I am waiting on the PGN to approve our case, but yet if it is not approved by Jan. 1 they are going to stop doing anything? How can this be.
I pray for all involved.
Although I don't want to jump the gun, I will say that both my husband and I would be prepared to march on Washington should our adoptions not go forward or if they are caught in some sort of unending legal nightmare. Without sounding too militant, there is no way we should let our government turn on their backs on us without a fight. As everyone has said ad nauseum - Guatemala has an intercountry adoption program, we entered into that program with a reputable US agency, we have followed all the rules, jumped through all the hoops, paid significant amounts of money, and been referred children, who we have grown to love through their photos, videos, medical reports, etc. There is no way that we will passively stand by and allow the children that have been referred to us returned to some orphanage. If looks like that is the case, I hope the many thousands of people who are waiting will come together and go to Washington and show our leaders a solidarity not seen since Vietnam. Sorry to be so dramatic but there is too much at stake! If the letter writing, emailing, phone calls, etc. have no affect, I think marching is the only answer. I think it's a travesty that our government cannot even be straightforward about what it is that is really going on. Are they just trying to scare new parents away from Guatemalan adoption as another writer indicated? Or are they truly trying to prepare those of us in process for a nightmare that they are not going to intervene in? The idea that the US doesn't intervene in the affairs of other countries - give me a *+#$@* break!
Posted by: contessa at September 27, 2007 09:19 AMUpdate - I also called the DOS number provided by Jaimee and spoke with a very nice woman. She certainly didn't sound like a decision maker of any kind and she put me on hold to get some "notes" to help her discuss things with me but I was encouraged by what she said. She said that the recent warning was meant for people thinking about adopting from Guatemala - a basic don't do it because it's too uncertain and unstable right now. She said the US is committed to helping Guatemala implement the Hague. She said the DOS is also committed to helping those of us with in process cases complete our adoptions. She did temper her remarks with a statement indicating that Guatemala is a sovreign nation of course and ultimately, they have the final say. Anyway, I found this conversation to be reassuring and in line with what some others of you have also been told.
Posted by: contessa at September 27, 2007 09:45 AMThey have started a petition to the US government on behalf of adoptive parents in our situation. I urge all to sign. Here is the link
http://www.petition online.com/ foafoa1/petition .html
Posted by: Don at September 27, 2007 10:04 AMThank you all for your comments...our attorney sent us a copy of the DOS statement and it was great to be able to come here and get a better idea of what is going on and what people are doing about it.
I am wondering if anyone would be willing to share a copy of the letter(s) they are writing to the various entities here in the US. I havent been politically involved in much of anything up to this point but I'm pulling my head out of the sand now --this adoption process has been very awakening! --and wanting to take action.
I have to confess that I've never even written a letter to a senator and am really clueless about what we should be saying at this point. I am overwhelmed with the emotions of this and discouraged that our case will go through --our dossier is just now being translated so we're still pretty far away from even getting into PGN.
I would greatly appreciate it if someone would be willing to share their letters so that I can get some ideas...I promise not to copy it, I just am looking for ideas.
Thank you!
Linda
lsmith1@wsu.edu
Jaimee,
A DOS person actually said that the birthmothers of children at CQ were beaten to death and stolen??? As a CQ PAP I find that preposterous! CQ has been in communication with the birthmothers, so unless they have resorted to performing a seance the BMs are still very much alive and willing to work with CQ to clear this mess up.
Posted by: Kathy at September 27, 2007 10:34 AMPaul,
JCICS and CCAI are working together for a big PUSH. Info should be posted here. Planning to bombard the GOV around OCT 8-10 and get Representatives to sign a statement to President Berger that they are currently working on. Encourage all adoptive in-process and already home families to become involved.
Annie (PAP to CQ baby, ready for PGN but PGN halted CQ cases).
Posted by: Annie at September 27, 2007 11:05 AMI just wrote my US Rep. Tom Cross, lets see if we get any answers. I posted it on my website, and below for those of you who may want a sample letter. Lets write our congressman, reps etc., and let them hear our own stories. PS. My stats might be a little off, but I wanted to get it done and went by memory.
Dear Representative Cross,
I'm very dissapointed in the recent warning issued by the DOS regarding Guatemalan adoptions. We entered into a good faith agreement to adopt two children from Guatemala, we filed our I600-A on December 8, 2006. We lost one referral because the birthmom changed her mind, that set us back about six months. We are now waiting on DNA (the first test) for one child and about to enter PGN for the other. There is no way, short of the US expiditing our cases that we will be finished with these adoptions by 12/31/2007. The new deadline in the warning which can be read at: http://travel.state.gov/family/adoption/country/country_389.html
According to the new "Warning", we will not be able to complete these adoptions and it is worded in a way that suggests the US does not have our backs and are not trying to solve this problem and implement a transitional period so that all in-process cases can be completed. We are not new to Guatemalan adoptions, we are keenly aware of the risks of all international adoptions, however, if the US felt so strongly about not allowing anymore adoptions from Guatemala, then we should not have been issued our 171H's. If the US truly wants to close down adoptions, then they should stop accepting the applications and the $745 dollar fees and stop issuing the 171's.
Last week, a fostermom's daughter in Guatemala was murdered, she was only 14 years old. The authorities will not even bother looking for her murderers. She was just another poor indigenous girl, and not worth their time. This is the same way the authorities in Guatemala (mostly Ladino and Spanish) view the children we are adopting. They will not have systems in place to help the 1000's of children who will never have forever homes if the US does not put pressure on Guatemala to let us complete our adoptions according to the rules of the process we entered into in good faith. 50% of the children under 5 die of malnutrition in Guatemala. 80% of the prostitutes are children under 18.
We need to get our children home, yes, Guatemala's system needs cleaning. The US and the Guatemalan Governments need to prosecute the offenders and allow the clean adoptions to go through. Please don't allow them to throw out the baby with the bath-water. The political pressure for these changes right now is due to the current President of Guatemala Mr. Berger and his wife Wendy's wanting to get their hands on the 2.3 million dollars UNICEF will hand them if they can stop adoptions. UNICEF's answer to corrupt adoptions is to stop all adoptions and to make abortion legal in Guatemala. If you look at what happened after UNICEF stepped into Romania, you will see where the precious orphans of Guatemala are headed, into the streets, the hills, prostitution and slavery. Those are the lucky ones who get to live.
Please visit my website, look into the eyes of two of these children and tell me that "they are not mine". Let them have the life they deserve.
Sincerely,
[our names]
Melissa and dh PAPs to be?
All this has me a bit freaked out, especially since two weeks ago the Guatemalan police demanded money from the foster mother who is taking care of our child and threatened to take the child. They did NOT, but that event, plus these ominous sounding statements have us concerned.
Posted by: Sandy at September 27, 2007 12:56 PMI just talked on the phone with the director of the orphanage where our daughter is at. She said that the PGN notaries and the family court lawyers go on vacation beginning mid November. She said that they are required to clear their desk before they can go. This could help many of us get out of PGN in time and many others get out of family court and into PGN sooner. She was not the least bit concerned that adoptions would actually stop. She said their were far too many children waiting that would be left homeless and the orphanages would become way to over crowded. It made me feel a little better, but I still want out of PGN NOW!
Posted by: Amy at September 27, 2007 01:32 PMSo if Guatemala knows they are going to halt cases as of January 1, 2008 to the U.S. - at what point are they going to even push a case through? i.e. We won't even be in PGN until early December. If there's no way to get through before the "deadline" then what will happen to my case before the cut-off? Will it just sit there?
I don't understand how ONE person is making the decisions for an entire country that is supposed to be a democratic nation. How does the executive branch get to decide everything? Doesn't that go against everything constitutional?
Posted by: j at September 27, 2007 01:39 PMHere is what my agency has said:
The Joint Council on International childrens issues is working with the State Department and the US Congress to issue formal letters to the Guatemala Government requesting all pending cases to be completed. I am hopeful that it will be resolved before the end of the year and we will know exactly how the process will proceed.
I saw the recent posts regarding petitions and letters to be sent. I just spoke to my Senator's office and she assured me that citizens will not be left high and dry. I am not suggesting easing pressure on DOS and Congress, but I think that we need to start contacting someone/agency/dept in Guat. Anyone have any ideas?? Our govt can pressure Guat, but I think Guat needs to hear our voices too.
Posted by: shannon at September 27, 2007 02:32 PMJoint Council Release
JCICS plan please read
From the JCICS----
Dear Friends,
Guatemalan President Oscar Berger has announced plans to suspend all
intercountry adoption with American families on January 1 2008. Joint Council
strongly opposes such a suspension and asks for your support in our efforts to
ensure that all children retain the right to permanency through Intercountry
Adoption.
President Berger’s plans also call for the suspension of adoptions currently
in-process. Such a suspension would be extremely detrimental to the children
referred to adoptive parents. If President Berger’s plan is actually
implemented, up to 5,000 will unnecessarily remain in foster care or orphanages
indefinitely.
This situation represents a pending crisis for the adoptive families who have
lovingly chosen to provide permanency, safety and love to a child in need and
most importantly a crisis for 5,000 children of Guatemala .
What can you do? Make six simple phone calls and one email.
1. Call your U.S. Senator.
· You can find your Senators’ phone numbers at www.senate.gov
· Ask to speak with the Legislative Director or Chief of Staff
2. Call your second U.S. Senator.
3. Call your representative to the U.S. House of Representative.
· You can find your representative at www.house.gov
· Ask to speak with the Legislative Director or Chief of Staff
4. Call or fax the Department of State’s Office of Children’s Issues
· Their number is 202-736-9130
· Their fax number is 202-736-9080
5. Call or fax UNICEF Headquarter
· Ask to speak with Ann Veneman, Executive Director
· Their number is 212-326-7000
· Their fax number is 212-326-7758
6. Call or fax UNICEF Guatemala
· Ask to speak with Manuel Manrique
· Their number is 011-502-2327-6373
· Their fax number is 011-502-2327.6366
7. Send and email supporting Intercountry Adoption to
guatemala5000@...
· Write briefly or at length
· Joint Council will use the cumulative email petition in our advocacy
for Intercountry Adoption
When should you call? Monday, Tuesday or Wednesday (October 8th, 9th 10th)
· For maximum affect, we are asking you to make these calls within a
72 hour window!
What should you say? Speak from your heart and give them the following
information.
· The Guatemalan government has announced that all adoptions with the
U.S. will be suspended on January 1 2008.
· Their announcement also indicated that there will be no
‘grandfathering’ of adoptions already in process.
· If children referred to families are not allowed to be adopted, they
will languish in institutions or foster care.
· Your office must get involved and sign the CCAI sponsored letters to
the President of Guatemala and UNICEF. These letters ask that all adoptions
in-process as of January 1 2008 be allowed to processed to completion under the
existing notorial laws.
· Your office should contact the Office of Children’s Issues at the
Department of State. Their number is 202-736-9130.
Can you explain the problem behind the pending crisis? Here is some
additional information…
· Guatemalan President Oscar Berger has announced plans to effectively
stop all adoptions into the United States including those children who have
already been referred to adoptive parents
· Over 5,000 children have been referred
· The birthparents for these children have already relinquished their
parental rights. As a result, they currently have no family and the Berger
suspension will result in these children having no prospect for a permanent,
safe and loving family
· The government of Guatemala currently does not have the finances or
facilities to even provide housing for these 5,000 children
· The Berger plan is a crisis waiting to happen
I spoke with my agency who was in touch with thier lawyers in Guatemala yesterday who spoke to Guatemalan congressional folks and according to them this mandate has not been passed in congress. Just like the US the president alone cannot pass this type of law without going through congress it has a check and balance system just as we do. now I am no expert and I cannot say what is or is not true fact but this is what my agency has been told by thier lawyers in guatemala. They did say their are 2 proposals coming before congress which are the ones Susana from ADA mentioned 3217 & 3635 but neither have been signed off on yet. So please do not lose all hope. Lets do what we can to make our voices heard and keep the faith folks.
Posted by: karen at September 27, 2007 03:05 PM Here is the link again, the first post had a space between letters. This is a petition directly to President Bush and congress asking them to intervene on our behalf. get relatives friends and anyone you know who will sign, as the more names we get the more leverage for them to take action.
http://www.petitiononline.com/foafoa1/petition.html
Don
While I was reading through the 90 messages here I noticed several people got through to DOS. Apparently DOS told them this warning was for people thinking of adopting from Guatemala not for those already in the process. Then why doesn't the warning say that???? Is DOS just trying to get us to stop bothering them? If DOS tells anyone else that maybe we should ask them if they can change the wording of the warning to reflect that. Otherwise they are just not credible.
Jenn in PA
Posted by: Jennifer at September 27, 2007 03:31 PMFor families in process this is a very tense time. Do not allow discouragement to overcome you. It is encouraging to see that JCICS is taking the situation seriously. See their website at www.jcics.org for their response as of today. They are beginning an initiative 5000 for all the children who will be affected with recent events. Even if there is a shutdown for 01/01/08 let us look forward to a potential re-opening for April or May 2008. The children need continued advocacy. The Assistant Secretary of State, Maura Harty, is heavily involved in Guatemalan adoption policy. Her office is another place to direct our concerns. My prayers are with all those involved.
Posted by: supportingreform at September 27, 2007 05:39 PMWe need to stick together and make this a HIGHLY VISIBLE ISSUE for 2008 electoral interest...political science 101 -- we need to be an average voter to have congressional leaders consider this a serious social or ethical issue. Thousands of us educating American public opinion of millions will get us there.
Please follow JCIS instruction below (please do exactly when and how they recommended.)
Anyone for a march/demonstration in October in DC? Any specific date in mind?
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
From JCICS:
Dear Friends,
Guatemalan President Oscar Berger has announced plans to suspend all intercountry adoption with American families on January 1 2008. Joint Council strongly opposes such a suspension and asks for your support in our efforts to ensure that all children retain the right to permanency through Intercountry Adoption.
President Berger’s plans also call for the suspension of adoptions currently in-process. Such a suspension would be extremely detrimental to the children referred to adoptive parents. If President Berger’s plan is actually implemented, up to 5,000 will unnecessarily remain in foster care or orphanages indefinitely.
This situation represents a pending crisis for the adoptive families who have lovingly chosen to provide permanency, safety and love to a child in need and most importantly a crisis for 5,000 children of Guatemala.
What can you do? Make six simple phone calls and one email.
1. Call your U.S. Senator.
· You can find your Senators’ phone numbers at www.senate.gov
· Ask to speak with the Legislative Director or Chief of Staff
2. Call your second U.S. Senator.
3. Call your representative to the U.S. House of Representative.
· You can find your representative at www.house.gov
· Ask to speak with the Legislative Director or Chief of Staff
4. Call or fax the Department of State’s Office of Children’s Issues
· Their number is 202-736-9130
· Their fax number is 202-736-9080
5. Call or fax UNICEF Headquarter
· Ask to speak with Ann Veneman, Executive Director
· Their number is 212-326-7000
· Their fax number is 212-326-7758
6. Call or fax UNICEF Guatemala
· Ask to speak with Manuel Manrique
· Their number is 011-502-2327-6373
· Their fax number is 011-502-2327.6366
7. Send and email supporting Intercountry Adoption to guatemala5000@jcics.org
· Write briefly or at length
· Joint Council will use the cumulative email petition in our advocacy for Intercountry Adoption
When should you call? Monday, Tuesday or Wednesday (October 8th, 9th 10th)
· For maximum affect, we are asking you to make these calls within a 72 hour window!
What should you say? Speak from your heart and give them the following information.
· The Guatemalan government has announced that all adoptions with the U.S. will be suspended on January 1 2008.
· Their announcement also indicated that there will be no ‘grandfathering’ of adoptions already in process.
· If children referred to families are not allowed to be adopted, they will languish in institutions or foster care.
· Your office must get involved and sign the CCAI sponsored letters to the President of Guatemala and UNICEF. These letters ask that all adoptions in-process as of January 1 2008 be allowed to processed to completion under the existing notorial laws.
· Your office should contact the Office of Children’s Issues at the Department of State. Their number is 202-736-9130.
Can you explain the problem behind the pending crisis? Here is some additional information…
· Guatemalan President Oscar Berger has announced plans to effectively stop all adoptions into the United States including those children who have already been referred to adoptive parents
· Over 5,000 children have been referred
· The birthparents for these children have already relinquished their parental rights. As a result, they currently have no family and the Berger suspension will result in these children having no prospect for a permanent, safe and loving family
· The government of Guatemala currently does not have the finances or facilities to even provide housing for these 5,000 children
· The Berger plan is a crisis waiting to happen
Best Wishes,
Tom
NOTE CONTACT NAME AND INFO AT THE END!!!!!
ARE YOU KIDDING ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
NYSE Welcomes H.E. Oscar Berger Perdomo, President of Guatemala
NEW YORK, Sept. 25, 2007 - The New York Stock Exchange today opened its doors to H.E. Oscar Berger Perdomo, President of Guatemala.
“We are pleased to have President Berger and his delegation visit the New York Stock Exchange and the United States and thank him for closing our trading day,” said NYSE Euronext CEO John A. Thain.
“New York is the financial capital of the world and the NYSE, with its rich tradition and technology, the paradigm of the financial markets,” said President Berger. “The degree of sophistication of the financial markets in the US are a source of inspiration for countries like Guatemala, with much less-developed institutions to support modern capital markets to channel savings towards development.”
The NYSE is home to 424 non-U.S. companies from 45 countries. These global and regional leaders have a combined total global market capitalization of over $10 trillion.
Please click the following link for The Closing Bell photo with the President of Guatemala.
NYSE Euronext (NYSE: NYX)
NYSE Euronext, a holding company created by the combination of NYSE Group, Inc. and Euronext N.V., commenced trading on April 4, 2007. NYSE Euronext (NYSE Euronext: NYX) operates the world’s largest and most liquid exchange group and offers the most diverse array of financial products and services. NYSE Euronext, which brings together six cash equities exchanges in five countries and six derivatives exchanges in six countries, is a world leader for listings, trading in cash equities, equity and interest rate derivatives, bonds and the distribution of market data. Representing a combined $30.8 trillion/€22.8 trillion total market capitalization of listed companies and average daily trading value of approximately $127.0 billion/€94.0 billion (as of June 29, 2007), NYSE Euronext seeks to provide the highest standards of market quality and integrity, innovative products and services to investors, issuers, and all users of its markets.
Contact: Annmarie Gioia
Phone: 212-656-5437
Email: agioia@nyse.com
Chrissy
1/8 Signed with FTC
4/19 – Dossier done and waiting for baby girl
7/5 Received Referral
7/12-7/17 POA Trip
7/19 DNA charged
7/27 - DNA Taken
~8/7 - Entered FC
8/9 - DNA results received in the mail 99.999%
8/13 - SW Interviews
9/12 Exit FC w/typo
PA - 9/25 (60 days from collection 47 from recpt in mail!!!!!)
Enter PGN - ?
I called DOS today and was told that the DOS was updating their web page, found in country specific concerning Guatemala, and that transitional info could be found there. The info is there and it does clear up some things concerning their intent on how transitional cases will be handled. The young lady I spoke with gave this answer when asked how Guatemala could just cutoff cases when that totally goes against the precepts of the Hague Treaty, her reply was that a Hague country has that as an option. I wrote my Congressman today in the House of Rep.'s and will write my Senator's also. We do have a voice, a very strong voice if we all act as a cohesive group and let our voices be heard.
One voice that I would suggest that we target is Sen. Mary Landrieu from the State of Louisiana, she was very instrumental and quite diligent in her fight for the current child adoption tax credit that she co-sponsored in Congress several years ago. Her contact page can be found at----http://landrieu.senate.gov/contact/index.cfm--- on her page you can find a drop down list for the subject concerning adoption and then issue your statement. This type of a concerted e-mail push will certainly make her very aware when JCICS pushes their effort. When an e-mail box fills up with the same subject it always will get someones attention. For me and my family we try to use all the information and tools at hand but most importantly we use the power of prayer.
Trusting in Him,
Paul
Posted by: Paul at September 27, 2007 11:53 PMwho is Ann Marie Gioia?
YES I AM SO IN ON A MARCH IN DC We need to make this HUGE we cannot allow this to happen to these innocent children or to the families who are waiting on these children. We should ALL be outraged at this illegal manuever in the 11th hour.
Posted by: Karen at September 28, 2007 10:45 AMTo Willie and all those interested:
The scriptures found in Psalms 112, 113, and 128 will encourage your heart and your determination.
Trusting in Him,
Paul
Posted by: Paul C. at September 28, 2007 11:49 AMKathy,
Yes, the lady at the DOS told me that about CQ. I debated whether to post it here, but I decided that people need to know what our government thinks and is telling people.
If possible, I would like additional info regarding the last thread (posted by Paul on Sept 27 at 11:53pm)as to when this DOS update is supposed to be posted. Thanks
Posted by: Jay at September 28, 2007 12:51 PMThere is a revised DOS statement now. Sound little more hopeful for thse in-process.
http://travel.state.gov/family/adoption/country/country_389.html
This was posted to a Guatemalan PAP Yahoo group and is insightful and hopeful. It is from Adoption Supervisors in Guatemala:
I emailed Adoption Supervisors, who are helping us w/ our case, and this was their reply. Makes me feel a little better:
Yes, there is lots of scare on this, but just look at it this way .... do you really think our ( 3rd world - ) Government would suddenly tell the US Government something like " sorry, but all these wonderful people simply lost their adoption fees " ? We don't think so. Changes might come, but the same way there will have to be transition phase and any changes will have to be practically and doable.
We are certainly aware of this DOS statement / warning, but we honestly don't see how a Law could work retro active, same way and if you read this statement / warning from DOS ... it is a contradiction ... on one hand, they state that they are helping Guatemala to comply with Hague standards and then and as soon as this would be achieved the US then wouldn't qualify anymore ? Makes no sense.
Fact is the following:
Onc e the Law gets approved and published, the following below will happen for adoptions but again, we don't see how and why this should apply to adoptions already in progress and much less for the ones at PGN stage then, any transition will have to be practically and doable, we anticipate there will be a period of grace.
1) There will be a National Commission of Adoption, in the hands of PGN, consisting of one representative of the following representatives / members each: 1 Congressman , 1 Rep. from Supreme Courts, 1 Rep. from the Secretaria del Bienestar Social and 1 Rep. from the Magistratura de Menores ( they call it the Comision Nacional de la Niñez ).
This commission will authorize any adoption, so they will have to be petitioned for it, same way they will qualify the adoption parents ( by means of the good old home study, we are sure ).
2) A Judge from Court of Minors has to certify the adopt-ability of the child him / herself ( no big deal here, either ).
3) The notario / adoption lawyer will subsequently finish the adoption.
Basically, not all too much will change. The real change is that a notario and / or facilitator will not have that much liberties anymore, that there will be a Governmental authorization of the adoption but otherwise, things will stay almost the same. To all we can tell, the notario ( likely through a facilitator like always and before ) will still be able to provide the child, but PGN and the National Commission of Adoptions will first have to approve it.
Naturally, there is an uncertainty as of how this will practically work and at what point, and once the child is presented to PGN and the National Commission of Adoptions, parents or an agency can petition the adoption. But this too will clear up.
Same way, it's not really clear what criteria whether PGN and the National Commission of Adoptions, as well as the judge from Court of Minors will use to determinate and fulfill their functio ns and obligations ... but ultimately this changes aren't really that significant.
The solemn main point is that there will be no facilitator handling an adoption by it's own anymore, nor offering a referral directly, every referral for to say so will have to be approved by our authorities first.
To make it short, the bad apples won't have that much free hands anymore, and that's actually a good thing !
And again, we do not see how this Law could work retro active, it will work and take effect once it is published, or once a specific date is mentioned, likely Jan. 1st 2008.
And no, we do not see this as an attempt to stop adoptions to the US.
We hope this helps a bit.
FWIW~Melissa
The DOS has issued a revised statement. Maybe our voices are starting to be heard. Let's keep up the fight until all our babies are home!
Posted by: Kathi at September 28, 2007 11:34 PMHey all, this has been a hard week for all of us but I know we are all doing what we can to make a difference. Calls, letters, prayer chains etc... and I believe it will matter. I called AnnMarie at the NYSE this morning and she politely told me that the event already happend and that they did not know about Berger before hand and there was nothing they could do. So I wrote her to tell her WHAT THEY COULD DO! (she told me she had several calls this morning regarding this matter, so I believe our calls if anything has people talking and that gets people doing.) In short, I told her that SOMEONE invited Berger, that SOMEONE had influence to get Berger there and "THAT" SOMEONE could make one simple call to Berger, just asking him to do the right thing, to allow the adoptions in process to be completed, that is all, JUST ASK! I also emailed George Bush, asking for the very same thing, a simple call on behalf of the 5000 families and the 5000 children of Guatemala, a call from one President to another, JUST A CALL!!! I said in my email to George Bush that, he is a son and he is a father and like he and his parents would fight with every bone in their bodies for their children, that is what we are doing and I pleaded with him to fight with us on our behalf. It is really simple to write your President and your congress man. I urge everyone to go to the focus on adoption web site (focusonadoption.com) and read their response, it is really good and also their link takes you right to the congressional page where you can find and email your congress even your president! It was super easy. Along with writing letters to everyone I can think of I am asking these people to reach out to their "sphere of influence" and do the same, and urging them to ask that these people stop giving money to UNICEF. My husband is in the fudraising industry, he raises money for children at risk all around the world, we have drafted a letter to every donor and foundation we work with and know of asking them to not give to UNICEF if they do. You can do the same. We have had many calls and emails in support of our effort and some committments that if UNICEF does not take a backseat to this push to destroy families and children in procees that they will cut off their donations.There are rumors that UNICEF has put forth a large sum of money some say 2.3 million dollars on the table if the Bergers can stop the adoptions. We have to stop them from their influence. The pressure needs to be on UNICEF as well. We all know somone who knows someone, we need to keep talking and writing and let our voices be heard. I don't think any of us are opposed to fixing a system that is broken but halting these adoptions in process will further break the system and it will be a national disaster. That is what we need to communicate. Right now Guat and the US were working out a plan to fix the system so why this call for a shut down of "in process" cases? There is no reason to further hurt these poor innocent children. I used to think that UNICEF cared for children....now you gotta wonder.
We are adopting 3 children 2 of whom are 8 and 10 years old and fully aware that we are working to bring them home. If this Jan 1 deadline stands we will not be bringing them home, we are just in family court now. How do you tell them, "sorry now you lost your other parents, you are on your own" We have visited these children and talked on the phone, they call us mom and dad and ask us to hurry and get them home. What a tragic ending it would be to have them once again abandoned. We have to keep fighting, keep supporting each other and KEEP PRAYING!!! GOD IS BIGGER THEN BERGER!!!!!
I am still stunned and horrified from everything that I am hearing. While it is easy to pull out a few shreds of hope, it all seems so ominous. Having completed an adoption which became difficult at the VERY END, I'm having flashbacks. But while my own little daughter is home long since, and safe and sound in America, my heart is with the scores and scores of other children who just might not get the same chance at a bright future.
IS anyone organizing a march or