If there is no vote then what happens? Does that mean the process continues the way it is until they vote on it?

Hello,

I am certain you have MANY messages asking you this....but...what does this mean? Can I rest easy? or does this make it even more crucial to get my daughter by Dec 31????

Thanks,
Jen
Waiting for Tess

Kelly and I were dual pathing this morning and as a result, duplicate posts were created. Below is what I had written:

There are a number of stories in today’s Guatemalan papers about adoption. By clicking on more I’ll go through them, but as it relates to a new law, it does not appear as though anything is being voted on this year, with this congress. I believe tomorrow is that last general session of this Congress and based on the Prensa Libre the Ortega Law and amendments will not be voted on. This is of course subject to change and you just never know what may happen. What does this mean? Assuming it is not voted on, the law and adoption system stays as it is. This does not mean that PGN will not still add new requirements. I don’t believe any new requirements, namely mandatory birthmom interviews, would have been connected to the Ortega Law. I’m not saying this will happen, just trying to make sure that you all realize that no new law does not mean no new requirements in the current system.

Prensa Libre: http://www.prensalibre.com/pl/2007/noviembre/21/188396.html

Basically a story stating that the new law is not on the current agenda. Explanation from the head of Congress is that there are so many amendments that they might be better off drafting a new law. Hmmm, where did you head that one first?

Here is a translation:

Adoption Act, pending

Despite the fact that all parties agree on the urgency of adopting a law on adoptions, and already agreed to the amendments to the initiative which is being discussed in Congress, final approval is still not included in the legislative agenda.

Ruben Dario Morales, president of the Congress, said yesterday that could present a new initiative, as it was passed in third reading (and which is awaiting approval of its final wording) will have to be amended.

"There are more than 60 amendments; take too long to discuss them all. I think it would be better to integrate and develop a new initiative, "Morales recommended.

Yesterday, the U.S. embassy In Guatemala reported that in April 2008 will come into force in that country the Hague Convention, which will help to prevent the abduction, sale and trafficking of children.

Amendments

Among the 64 proposed amendments to the law on adoptions are:

Establishing the National Council for Adoptions, as the body responsible for these processes. It could be composed of the Attorney General's Office, the Social Welfare Department and the Supreme Court.

Include an article to protect the transitional adoption cases that are pending when the law come into force.

The other stories:

There are more stories out today. Yesterday there was a protest by women who clai their children were kidnapped. A new report has been issued by a host of organizations, including Myrna Mack, the Archdiocese, Casa Alianza, Bienestar and others with all sorts of horrible allegations about adoptions. I will try to get a copy of this report.

To read these, I recommend you visit our forums where they are posted and translated.

All in all, things are pretty heated right now and I feel horribly for everyone caught in the middle of it. I hate to say it but in-process families should expect some turbulent times. In some ways, I think in-process cases would be better off if any new law was passed (with a grandfather clause) so that at least attention could be placed on clearing the pipeline. But for the time being, there is this limbo.

Guatemalan and US authorities are, in my opinion, genuinely trying to ensure adoptions are clean. The downside of that is what it can mean in practical application to all the clean cases out there. After all, we all know that the vast majority of cases are clean! I wish I had a solution to this right now.

I do not believe that, with the second DNA test, children are being kidnapped for adoption. Nonetheless, there are other forms of corruption that can occur. The challenge is trying to quickly and effectively isolate those from all of the legitimate cases, prosecute those responsible, and not harm children in the process.

There has been some debate over the potential for birthmoms to be interviews and I just wanted to make sure my statements on this are clear. While I can understand why this would be done, and theoretically it could be done well, I too share the fears that it could lead to intimidation and ugly allegations. I can understand why PGN would not want the attorneys present. But on the same note, they may be needed. Somehow it seems as though you need an impartial third party there to be sure that the birthmom knows she is safe from both sides.

So once again, things are uncertain and everyone has to live with this for the time being.

Guatadopt will keep yopu up to date as we learn things…

Kevin
Guatadopt.com

Ok so what happens to those of us in process after Dec. 31st? thanks

Good Grief, when is this nightmare going to end.

Where is Susana Luacara?
During the Hague in 03 - we sat on the edge of our seats waiting to hear her opinion and current plans.
It seems like she has disappeared.
Susana - if you're still out there, what are your thoughts on all of this?? I do check the ADA for updates, but last one is Nov.8
We like to see you on the boards and commentaries!

Blessings!
Laura

If you paste and enter the following web address for the Prensa Libre article on adoption law into Google:

http://www.prensalibre.com/pl/2007/noviembre/21/188396.html

Then click on "Translate this page", Google automatically translates the text into English.

When you say in process do you mean the beginning of the process like a
>referral and waiting on PA or in PGN? We are in PGN and I just want my
>son home. I would like to think we are in the home stretch but I really
>don't know. What about the possible rumor of 12-31? I mean will new
>laws go into effect then? And these birthmom interviews without an
>attorney is that even legal? I mean if you are being interrogated do
>you not have a right to have an attorney present?

I too am thinking this is not good news for in process. As of Jan. 1st won't Guatemala implement the Hague? It seems we need to still hope they grandfather us in.

Kevin,
I wish you could elaborate more when you said we are facing "turbulent times"...what are some possible scenarios that could take place?
Thanks

I still find this pretty confusing. We are now out of PGN, as of just November 15... does that mean that we should rest easy or at least easier? I don't understand how far you have to be along in the process before December 31, if the laws are not really going to be changed?

kgmiller,

All I mean is things are turbulent. There are issues getting BCs from some civil registries, CQ, the La Primavera judical cases, cases with abnormalities, and overall aura of ucnertainty. There was nothing predicitive in that statement, just a summation of what's happening before our very eyes.

Kevin
Guatadopt

Puke, can't we have a Thanksgiving with some peace? I know, we all are feeling it, but I just have to say I've had enough. I don't even want to read anything unless it is more then speculation.

Kevin and Guat team, this is nothing negative about the wonderful job you do, just my own feelings on one day getting "great" news the next bad. Truly we need some closure. Praying hard in Chicago because its the only thing we can all do that will have a positive impact.

This was an article in the Prensa Libre today, which seems pertinent to your comment, Kevin. It is odd, and seems to refer to an action that occured on the 9th of November. It indicates, though, that th various authorities in the country are not in agreement, and might help people understand why thisng are turbulent, as you sop rightly stated. Here is the English tranlation. I anyone doubts my wording, I am open to corrections.

"Children return home to Casa Quivira

Roxana Mena, judge of First Instance of [minors], did not find anomalies in the procedure of adoption of 10 smaller, for which she returned them home to Casa Quivira. "I reviewed each one of the files, and I did not find anomalies; the attorney general's office had been present in all the hearings", Mena said. The Attorney's general office of childhood indicated that the decision of the judge was unilateral, and that at this point, they received a case presented in which persons deceived the mother, telling her that her child had died, but then was found at Casa Quivira. The District Attorney's Office also is aware of the cases of another five children, with similar characteristics. "

Kevin,
Can you explain what you mean by "la primavera judicial cases?"
Thank you.

There were some La Primavera cases that were being held up in PGN and instead went to do a judicial adoption - which is totally legal. The judicial approval of those cases is being appealed. This is not anything that should impact other La Primavera cases.

Kevin
Guatadopt

Kevin,
If there is no voting that takes place before the end of the year, my initial reaction is that is good news for PAPs because then everything will continue as is. However, if the Hague is implemented Jan 1 then perhaps my thinking is incorrect. I guess I have two questions.

1) Is the Hague going to be implemented Jan 1 in Guatemala? Has that been officially announced? I've been following all of this for several months now and I just never seem to read that anything is for sure.

2) If the Hague is implemented Jan 1 and the voting on the amendments doesn't take place before Jan 1, what does that mean for all in-process cases? A pause? A stop? Continuing as is (maybe with some tweaks)?

I'm trying to stay very positive. I'm going to visit my son for the first time in just over a week. I don't want to think that will be the only time I ever spend with him.

Thanks, Kevin!
Kimberly

Dear All:

I am from Minnesota. Senator Norm Coleman of Minnesota is traveling to Guatemala the day after Thanksgiving to talk to the President and Congress. Senator Coleman is the Co-chair of the Congressional Coalition on Adoptions. He has personal ties to a family adopting from Guatemala. Please think good thoughts and pray for his success. Thank you.

On Thanksgiving Day, we recieved new that we had finally made it out of PGN and the Birth Mom was coming that day to sign the final papers. Does this mean we are "in a safe place" or is nothing "safe" until we land in NY with our babies? Thank you for all of your insight.