interesting... I guess this would mean that they would have to abandon their plan to allow 30 days before the law goes into effect. IF they vote on Dec. 11, that's only 20 days. I wonder how likely it is that they would actually do that.

Kevin,

What is your take on the JCICS posting? You've stated in the past you're confident that in-process cases will be grandfathered, the JCICS statement seems doubtful of this. I'd like your feedback on this. Thanks.

Kevin,

What is your take on the JCICS posting? You've stated in the past you're confident that in-process cases will be grandfathered, the JCICS statement seems doubtful of this. I'd like your feedback on this. Thanks.

ok seriously, are they just pushing the panic button. Kevin - like you said they only need a computer to register with the central authority and that should be no big deal.

So the Saga continues.... when will this nightmare be over?

well, that's good news about the 2008 GuatAdopt calendars...

as for the rest of the news: "where are we going and what is this handbasket we're in??"

:-((

Lisa

Ditto on Robert's post.
Does anyone else still believe that the vote won't pass ? Or is most of this by congress just a "going through the motions" type of politics to appease those in office until the new president takes over ?

Regarding the UK's suspension... any idea what "new evidence" they are referring to? I have to at least give them credit for having the guts to actually take action (which seems like a reasonable action on the surface) instead of just making threats all the time like our DOS has done.

I'm terrified. Kevin, Kelly, Marie? Please comment. I understand we're still speculating until after Jan. 1st, but I'm just terrified again. I don't even have PA, much less being in PGN. What does this new announcement mean to us still waiting to enter PGN?

Jessie
Waiting for Willow

1st DNA has been done and waiting on Pre-Approval--- Can someone who recently received their PA let me know approximately how long it took to receive and what is the title/comment to be looking for on the Pre-Approval email receipt? Thanks for any assistance!

well...that's good news about the GuatAdopt calendars...and very disquieting news from the UK and the JCICS...esp a mere 24 days before 12/31, when up to a few days ago everyone was so positive about grandfathering of in-process cases (though in-process has remained undefined).

I just hope that this situation gets *resolved* soon, as the stress of not knowing what will happen is awful. I have never liked roller-coasters and this one is just awful. Hang on tight!!

Lisa

To Anne Marie and others waiting for Pre-approval:

I just got my pre-approval a few day ago after being submitted on Oct. 10th. It was just short of the 60 days they officially warn you to expect.
The Sender was: DONOTREPLY Guatenotices
The Subject Line was: Pre-approval Notice, Petitioner (my name), Case # _______
It was pretty easy to pick out from the Spam and sent chills down my spine. Now I hope I can get into PGN before the end of the year.
Good luck to everyone!

Reba, waiting for Luciana, who I have held, fed, diapered and kissed.

I'm waiting for my PA, too. First DNA done on 10/22 and submitted to the Embassy shortly thereafter. My agency is saying that it should take about 1.5 - 2 months to get PA.

Looking for clarification (seems like every post starts with that):
It is my understanding that cases are "registered with PGN" very early in the process (soon after translation of dossier). If this is the case then all the concern over getting into PGN in order to qualify for grandfathering is missplaced. Of course this would appear to be totally seperate from "registering with the Central Authority" within the 30 days of law going into effect. As I understand what Kevin has suggested would be for PGN to step in and take the place of Central Authority until an official office is in place.

Please, someone correct me if I am wrong. (although I am really looking for someone to agree with me)

Lo

Wondering if a manual order of the calendars is still possible Kelly? I was one of the unfortunate who encountered a glitch each time I tried to order a calendar...unsuccessful many times:(
Praying for all of the PAP's in process, and for all of those hoping to return. Everyday with my son is a blessing. I want nothing more then for everyone to have their babies home.

In regards to PA, we are at day 38 of PA...I,too got the automated email stating they had 60 days to process. I am very concerned as well.

My emotions are up and down all the time. One minute I find myself daydreaming about going to get her and then other days I find myself feeling moody and very discouraged and fearful. Things seem so shady that I am not even confident anymore about being grandfathered in...perhaps I shouldn't feel that way. But, it always seems that there is a hidden agenda and it changes all the time.
I don't really want to sound so negative, but I truly do not know what to think or feel anymore!

Hoping to hear some definites and positive information SOON!

I wonder how the UK enforces this new rule? It might be a little difficult especially for pending cases since Guatemalan's can enter the EU without visa. Who prevents adoptive parents who completed an adoption in Guatemala to enter the EU with the child? I think this new rule is more symbolic than a real shutdown for UK residents.

Lo, your case isn't registered with PGN until your case is submitted, which doesn't occur until after Family Court and PA (usually, unless your attorney submitts it without PA in hopes that it comes in soon). But you have to be out of FC before you can go into PGN, which is when you become registered with PGN.

In response to Jerryscuba's comments regarding the UK adoption system: here in the UK, you have to obtain a "Certificate of Eligibility" from a government department in order to be able to adopt from Guatemala. The government department sends this certificate to Guatemala together with your dossier. So it is easy for them to stop adoptions from Guatemala - they simply refuse to send your completed dossier/Certificate of Eligibility to Guatemala. This is exactly how the UK government has enforced the rule (already). It does not apply to people who already have their dossiers in Guatemala. But it does apply to people who were "paper-ready" and just waiting to have their dossiers sent to Guatemala. If you bear in mind that it can take some of us in the UK 2-3 years to get to this stage, you can probably imagine the feelings of those whose dossiers were sitting on a desk waiting to be sent to Guatemala when they were informed without any warning of the new rule.

This is just so wrong! We have been preparing for a Guatemala adoption since June. With this latest news I just feel so saddened that we didn't even have a chance. Please everyone pray for grandfathering through April. It feels as though that date has already been given up on. I'll be praying for that and all of you that are already in the process further than us. I'm sure there has to be alot more people like us that are ready to adopt but just couldn't accept a referral when the news came out in Sept. It has been so hard to see the picture's of the babies and not be able to accept.

Hi all,

Please forgive me for sounding so "doom and gloom" right now, but I just really need a place to vent. I have to say that my husband and I have stayed very calm throughout this process, realizing that things would be rocky. However, after Joint Council's latest posting, we are becoming panicked! We don't know what to believe anymore. I don't know about all of you, but we've had it with the back and forth with grandfathering, not grandfathering, new laws proposed, first and second readings but no third reading, meetings arranged and then canceled???!!! Our hearts are not ping pong balls to be batted back and forth according to which way the political wind is blowing! My husband and I feel very alone all of a sudden. Does anyone else feel this way ---- lost with no direction and time seemingly running out? Does the DOS really want us to not bring these children home? Our agency hasn't made an attempt to communicate with us about any of the recent turmoil. No words have been offered to allay our fears of the possibility of not being able to bring our little girl home. (maybe because they don't know what to say until a vote is actually made??) We had the Guatemala 5000 Initiative a while back, which seemed to be effective. Shouldn't someone be planning for a second wave if they decide not to allow those of us in process, but not yet registered in PGN to complete our cases? We've come so far, and I'm just sick to my stomach. We are waiting for PA (only 24 days since our DNA was received at the USE), which we probably won't receive until after January 1st. We are also waiting to exit FC (SWI occurred on 11/13). We don't know when/if our SW went on vacation. We have had no updates on our FC situation for over 2 weeks. Even if we exit FC, would we have time to enter PGN before January 1st? (our attorney will submit us without PA) We are trying so hard to stay positive, but we feel beaten down right now. Any words of clarity, wisdom or suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks for listening.

Lorri (and Kirk) waiting for

Avery Grace - born 9/1/07

Lorri,

I am right there with you! I feel all of the same feelings that you expressed! We received updated pictures friday of our daughter which was bittersweet. We loved seeing how much she had grown since the last photo and that she appeared so happy and healthy. But! Then it made me scared that we may never have her with us. Like you, I have been concerned over the last several weeks (but tried to remain psoitive), but now I am becoming especially worried and really beginning to wonder if we will ever bring her home?!?!

Prayer is really are only option at this point!

I will continue to pray for everyone else also! I will post here when we get PA, we are at day 39 today; that will hopefully give you some idea as to when yours will come too.
God Bless everyone involved in adoptions from Guatemala;especially the children!!

Lorri,

You can go out to the FORUM option and see that you and Kirk are NOT alone. I was actually very calm, cool and collected until October and then I've just let loose -- the forums allow you the opportunity to vent and gather information with those in very similar situations.

I have no idea what is going on. I'd like to stay in the State of Denial right now -- very nice place to vacation. I am in PGN waiting for final signature (hopefully), and yet so many questions of what if this or what if that.

The thing is that no one has the answers. The lawyers and agencies here don't have the answers because they are trying to figure it out. The lawyers in Guatemala don't have the answers either. Right now, we are in Limbo...

Just know that you are not alone and that you are welcome to join us on the FORUM -- to be encouraged by seeing the process work.

And Anne from the UK -- completely sorry for the situation there. I have a friend from the UK who adopted this past summer. I KNOW how hard it is to become paper-ready. It takes YEARS (and we complain) to simply be considered eligible. To now be READY and for the government to put a stop to it is very painful. Just trusting that this heartbreak is a little less painful than the heartbreak of entering into a program with no end in site. Perhaps, in some way, while we may not see it right now, this is a blessing because there is another child in another part of the world who is your baby.

JMHO

Anne Marie,
We just received our pre-approval from Guatemala last night. We got it in 40 days!!! Hope this keeps your spirits up some!

YES, we have calendars left. Apparently, American Express and Discover were not "activated" with our Merchant (one step we didn't know about, I guess). I did order more calendars than our pre-order list because we were having problems getting everyone's "ordered" before we put in our order to the printer. But we are still accepting orders.

As for JCICS announcement: Yes, there is a lot of "concerns" as the Guatemala government and DOS register their "intent".

Obviously, DOS wants fewer parents to be in process when a new law is put in place even if cases are theoretically grandfathered as intended. Period. They have slowed down their processing and published multiple warnings. At this point, I do not think we can anticipate an absolute cutoff rule(whose registered with what entity and when) until a new law has been passed. In my opinion, DOS will adjust their cutoff to whatever Guatemala has put in place as long as it does not fall outside of the US implementation of the Hague.

JCICS announcement: Yes, we want clarification. But realistically, the concerns with this new law have NEVER changed. It is really not a different position but a "Hey....you still haven't ironed this part out and we only have a month before the proposed cutoff!!!"
Furthermore, Guatemala has a new President and a new Congress for 2008. That means there are going to be new folks appointed to critical positions who will most likely figure out the practical implementation of whatever is passed.

Grandfathering: Getting back to basics, the congress agreed that in process cases would be grandfathered. The fact that they would have to be registered with the CA is a concern but not something to panic about. As Kevin mentioned, a single computer and staff member acting for the Central Authority could theoretically meet this criteria.

I do believe that those who are in process right now (whose cases are registered under CURRENT procedures)...will be allowed to continue. But NO-ONE should think that this is going to be easy and we still hold that entering the process now is extremely risky.

Kelly
guatadopt.com

Back in October we received pre approval in 10 days for the sibilings we are adopting and we know someone else who got the same, our PA for our
baby took 64 days back in August and Sept, so it is really wierd how that all works. We have been in fmaily court now for 3 months with our sibilings so getting our PA so fast has not mattered :(
PGN seems to be taking 8 weeks, so if you get in without a kick out or 8 weeeks back in with a k/o. We were 8 weeks to the EXACT day like 3 other ppeople I know so it's like they put a date on the file and pick it up on that day..... sooooo strange... this process. We are also waiting and hoping for a sure grandfather claus for our sibilings. We have been out of PGN with the baby 4 weeks with NO pink.

Yes.... we are adopting 3!

Lo, your statement above has long been my understanding as well (like since about 2002 or 2003): that cases are "registered in PGN" at the very beginning of the Guatemalan adoption process, prior to being entered in FC. Of course, after FC your adoption dossier is submitted to PGN for review of paperwork, but that is well after your case has been "registered in PGN". I am going to check with some adoption professionals and verify - and will post back. Lisa

Amy - my understanding is that all cases are registered with PGN earlier in the process - sortof letting them know a case is in process.
The term I've heard used is protocolized, and I understood that to be with PGN.
I'm not 100% sure about that - I could be wrong.

Lisa and GDSinPA,
Thanks for sharing!
Lo

I could be wrong on the PGN registration not being done until your case is submitted. I was never told it was registered earlier in the process, but I guess that doesn't mean that it isn't. I wonder if you can call PGN and see if your case is registered prior to your dossier being submitted.

Things are moving! We recieved our pre-approval today!!!! 45 days after DNA results. It was easy to locate. It did not come in spam folder. The subject line read "Pre-Approval Notice, Petioner: your name and case # From Guatemalanotices.DONOTREPLY@dhs.gov

I have been back in PGN for 7 weeks now (entered originally in Sept, kicked out and reentered in October) and last I heard was still in the 2nd reviewer's office. I have a feeling that vacations and a general slowdown are taking place. I had been hoping to get PGN approval before the end of the year, but that does not appear likely.

I feeling the same concerns as others, scared of what will or won't happen with grandfathering. I am so close to having my baby girl home with me - the thought of not bringing her home is unthinkable.

I found this a long time ago --perhaps someone who knows more can verify if this is accurate:

..."The PGN in Guatemala is also involved in registering the approved power of attorney to the Guatemalan attorney who will be representing the prospective parent(s) in the country. The Spanish phrase ‘Protocolización del Mandato de Representación” refers to this process....."

So, I guess I'm wondering if the POA really IS registered with PGN in the beginning. (if not then where is it registered?) If that is the case then it seems like it jives with "in process" being the POA registered AND the idea that people registered with PGN will be grandfathered.

Linda,
This is interesting. Where did you find this quote? I can't confirm what you are guessing, but it would make sense for POA to be registered with PGN. Especially given the fact that PGN is like our Attourney General's office.

Lo

In response to Anne's post. I don't disagree with you. What you say is correct for people who go the official route. I can also not really speak for the situation in the UK. But I know that e.g. Germany has not been allowing adoptions from Guatemala. However, if people find a way to adopt the child by Guatemalan law, Germany has to acknowledge this adoption. I read on a German web site that it is estimated that about 40-50% of all international adoptions to Germany go this route.
I don't want to encourage or endorse this way of circumventing laws I just wanted to say that not everything that is on paper can also be enforced.
In fact by German law I would not have been allowed to adopt my children from Guatemala. Since my wife is US citizen, we were able to adopt by US law (we also live in the US). However, when I took my daughter to Germany a couple of weeks after she came home from Guatemala to see the grandparents, nobody even asked a question when I entered the country even though my daughter certainly doesn't look like me. That fact that her last name in the passport was the same as mine was enough to enter the EU.