Ok seriously I understand that the law says cases have to be registered with the CA but how can they in the same law say the CA does not have to be formed until after the date the in process cases are required to be registered by. I am no lawyer but this is totally NOT RIGHT. Unconstitutional if you will. I hope someone is slamming the courts with injunctions/ challenges etc. I hate to say but how much faith do we all really have that they will have it together enough by the 31st of this month to have this in place so ALL in process cases can be registered.

HEY THANKS DOS FOR PUSHING FOR THE JAN 1 DATE and stabbing us all in the back and you too John Lowell. Got to love the the US Govt. NOT

okay, why would PGN even need to accept cases that have been approved, much less limit itself to such cases?? I wonder what exactly they mean by 'approved' - do they mean cases where the aviso has previously been filed? I know you will post as soon as you get clarification on this and all other issues! Thanks!! Lisa

Thanks for the info Kelly. I think there needs to be some clarity on which cases are still being processed and which cases will be waiting for the CNA for registration. Lots of other sources are reporting case movement and even some outs, so it's not like PGN is literally stalling all cases.

Where in the world does that leave those of us that had a KO and not resubmitted before 12/31????? Trying to be positive and level-headed, but the thought that we aren't considered grandfathered scares the #$@#$@# out of me.

I am so frustrated because we have been in family court for three months and I feel like the cases in PGN will be the final cut off. I hope that this is not correct. I pray that people will do what is right and help these children unite with the families that love them.

Dear Kelly,
We are an 11/29 submit to PGN with a KO on 12/17. Because of the holidays, I am sure that our attorney did not get us resubmitted. Where does this leave us? Thank you.

This is very disturbing for me. I have had my daughter home since September after a grueling 2 year process. She came home a week after her 2nd birthday, but I have been keep up with Guatadopt. Like many others, it has helped me sane. My question is, when did everyone lose sight of the children. Every child deserves a family, to be loved, to be educated, a future. It should not be this hard to adopt a child. I am praying for all the families in waiting. I know how hard it is. Our agency dumped us during our process and I had to take matters into my own hands. It was just me and the attorney in Guatemala who is fantastic. I called PGN, the Embassey, and our senator. For those who are waiting, fight! Those are your children, don't lose sight of it. Fight! Every and I do mean every child deserves a family and love. Again, this should not be hard. We are talking about children!!! I wish PGN and everyone else could see that. This is very upsetting!

What a state of limbo we are in. I pray that there will be clairification soon and that ALL cases pending will be able to be grandfathered in. Will cases that are ready to go into PGN be able to?(Ours)We have PA, but not sure if we are in PGN yet.

The JCICS statement says "All other aspects of adoption processing have been stopped." Does anyone know if this includes Family Court? I'm thinking it does, but would love to know for sure.

Of course, there's not really any "for sure" at this moment, is there?!?

Please, please, what do you/JCICS mean by "approved"? Does this mean cases already done with PA and Family Court and in PGN? OR does this mean no more PGN outs until the Central Authority is up and running? Thanks....

please post somethinf concrete as soon as you know

So I guess we wait yet again. This whole process is draining and I am tired but all we can do is wait.

Thanks very much for the information. Kelly, your interpretation of the Joint Council statement is the one I was hoping for since it left me puzzled. Can you clarify it for me?

Maybe I'm just misreading the first sentence of their update today. It reads, "...PGN is no longer processing adoption cases with the exception of those that have already been approved."

If PGN has already approved the case, then what role do they play? Did the statement from JCICS intend to read that they are not approving new cases, but only those that have already been "submitted?"

The use of the word "approved" in the Joint Council statement and in your post has me confused.

Thanks for any help you can provide in clearing this up for me. Melinda

This is so confusing. Didn't we just get the word on 12/21 that all PGN cases were grandfathered in? I'm not sure I understand this change. Any insight?

"PGN not accepting any new cases"

key word here is "new"

or is it?

I'm being told that they are not accepting any resubmits after previos either. Does anyone know what their policy will be about that?

Lizzie
Proud Mama to Anarosa home since 5-26-04
anxiously waiting for Migdalia, born November, 2006

Does this mean anything new for a case not going through pgn anymore but rather going the judicial route awaiting final approval from a Family Court judge?

Thanks for the update!!

this is truly a real "voyage of the Dammed" We are getting from both sides the DOS and Guatemala. There are several families from Courtroom 6 that are waiting for their files to be release (after 5 months of court of appeals) they are suppose to be resubmitted into PGN. So now they can't?
Kelly,
Do you have any advice, that we as PAP need to do on our end?

Regards,
Shawn

We are right there with everyone else who is frustrated. However, I did want to say thank you to Kelly and guatadopt for posting this so that at least it is no longer just a rumor. We were KO'd on 12/27 for no PA (which we got on 12/29, of course). We're all holding our breath waiting to see what happens next. Thanks for always being on top of things for us, Guatadopt!

I just know what we were relayed by out agency. I was told the approved cases meant the ones that had been approved by the first reviewer. This may not be true. We entered PGN 12/11 without our PA. Received our PA on 12/21 but doubt our attorney got a KO then resubmitted before the holidays. Like you, I am in limbo and freaked out about it. Not knowing stinks and so many different opinions/translations seems so bizarre when dealing with a child's life! This is adoption we are talking about not what color we should paint a wall. I liked what Kelly said, "I'm viewing this as an expected stall..." I pray the CA will be organized in GODSPEED!

thanks so much for the info - please please continue to let us know when you know anything new. you guys are making this whole process easier on all of us

Are we seeing the US as wolves in sheeps clothing? Clearly they have been lying to us all year. John Lowell - What do you have to say now?

We received Embassy consent on Friday 12/28...We can only hope that level heads prevail. Focus on the positive.

The use of the term "approval" is still creating confusion at least for me and it seems for others on this board and other forums I monitor.

Kelly, when you say "PGN is not accepting new cases other than those which have been approved," what does this mean? If PGN has approved the case and presumably, the birth mother has signed off for the last time, then the baby is ours for purposes of Guatemalan law. If I have this wrong, please let me know. Otherwise, what role could PGN be playing in all of this post-approval and how can they be "accepting new cases?" if the case is already approved.

I could understand if the JCICS was saying that those who were already submitted are good to go and any cases that didn't get submitted before December 31 or are kicked out after January 1 are not being considered by PGN until they are registered with the Central Authority. But, neither the JCICS statement nor your subsequent posts on the subject explain what is the status of cases pending in the PGN right now.

It may be that nobody knows the true answer to this question, since despite the claims of outs this week, we don't really know whether the out came prior to December 31 and the agency just communicated it to the family now. If anyone knows definitively that there were outs this week, then we know for sure that PGN is up and running for cases already in the PGN pipeline.

Kelly, can you explain what "...other than those which have been approved means?" This seems to be the central point of confusion. If approved means "submitted," then it makes sense. If approved means, "approved and out of PGN," then I don't understand why the new law would have any impact.

Thanks for the continued assistance. Melinda

Thanks Kevin,
I like the way you explain things! As hard as it sounds I think we should try to remain calm,positive and let it "iron itself" out..unless we are asked to start writting letters again. ;-) Lets keep the faith!
Kim

I love that these updates seem to come on Friday afternoons, so that we are guaranteed the weekend with no further clarification. Is THIS the time to start calling our senators and congressmen again? (Monday, of course.)

Well,this certainly sounds like discouraging news for those of us who just had our POA registered. We're wondering if anyone has received documentation on paper (i.e. a copy of registration form or a receipt) from their agency after the POA has been submitted. We were told we will not receive anything of that sort, and are getting a little suspicious...they are less than forthcoming with information. Thank you, Guatadopt, for being our source of information.

It seems that in all this confusion, Guatemala has lost sight of getting these children who are spoken for united with their new families. These are the cases which should be examined first and finalized. Why don't they have some kind of time frame to complete these adoptions? I've been under the gun for one year and still know nothing more than I did last January when this all began with a completed home study and 1/2 of the country fee.

Folks,

Maybe we (Guatadopt) are being overly optimistic and maybe I'll be regretting this post. But I think that everyone is making too much over this.

The LAW in Guatemala as of Dec 31, 2007 removes PGN from the process. It states that in order for a case to be finished under the old notarial system, it must be registered within 30 days with the CA (side note that JCICS is saying that is to be 30 BUSINESS days, pushing it back to mid Feb). So in this case, PGN seems to be doing what law of Guatemala, right or wrong, dictates.

Let's remember that the 14 (business?) days to have the Central Authority's BOD appointed has yet to pass. Heck, the twelve days of X-Mas, the Dia de los Reyes I believe, isn't even until Sunday.

I know the huge frustration out there and I am in no way defending the causes for it. But this is a huge phase of transition. Deadlines have been established and those deadlines have yet to be breached.

I am 99.9% sure those of you in process are in for a rollercoaster ride like you never imagined. However, I am only slightly less confident that these cases will be completed.

Speaking as a 2003 Hague survivor, and I mean this as seriously as I can state, to those of you in process, find ways to manage the stress and depression associated with this crap when you are stuck in the middle of it. Whatever it is - music, beer, needlepoint, archery or mescaline - do it! (For the record, I write satirically and am not condoning or recommending the use of an illegal substance) This process can be incredibly stressful during the smoothest of times and you all are certainly not in smooth times.

Governments suck! I will not argue with that. Bureaucracy and politics suck as well, especially when children are involved. But that’s what we’ve got here.

One last thought… In a way, I think PGN taking this stand may be a positive thing. It will raise awareness of the need for the CA to get formed and specify what registration means and how it can be done. In short, maybe it will light a match over someone’s butt who needs it.

BTW - for anyone who case was signed off before Dec 31, PGN is still releasing those. I do know of cases that were released Friday.

Hang in there y paz,

Kevin
Guatadopt.com

JJ's mom:

we were also told that we couldnt get any record/proof of the POA being registered. We also were having some problems so we chose to hire Adoption Supervisors (SJI) to check on it for us.
I think that is about the only way you'll know for SURE that it was done.

I called PGN today, we were re-submitted after a 4 week KO on November 14th, back in for 7.5 weeks today. We are at 2nd reviewer and they said they are still processing our case and its likely we could be out in the next week to two weeks. They said "new" cases were waiting for the central authority - I gathered that to mean that cases that have been recently submitted. It would be great to get clarity on what date they are considering new cases.

Susana has posted (1/5) on the ADA site, requesting that in-process parents contact the US DOS to request that they stop putting pressure on Guatemala to make existing adoptions as difficult as possible to finish. If someone at Guatadopt can confirm that this is in fact happening, and let us know how we would go about this, we would really appreciate it. I know that my family is ready to do whatever we can to support all in-process families to help bring our babies home. Thank you for your guidance - this is the only site I trust.

Among the many aspects that make no sense, the one that I am currently trying to figure out, is why, if you get a KO from PGN, would they not let you resubmit until you registered with CA---since you were registered with PGN when you were submitted!!! (and they said those already in PGN need not register again with CA) Its not like you get a new case number everytime you come and go from PGN. And why is it so difficult to get concrete answers...seems like a responsible entity would explain (preferably in advance) the changes and specify the "hows and when" so everyone knows the situation and might EVEN understand the reasoning for it--that would be a novel approach!!!

yes, we have been in constant turmoil for a year. we really know notheing more than a year ago other than a new law was passed. What that means for us nobody knows anything. how can this be???????????????????

Just an update for all you worried PAPs out there. Monday, two big announcements are expected. First, PGN will be making an announcement after meeting recently to clarify the new legal requirements. Second, the third and final delegate for the new Central Authority will be appointed Monday. After the appointment, a meeting will occur to set forth procedures.

The GT press had several conflicting reports concerning the AG's announcement which is the basis of the Joint Council's statement yesterday. The JCICS said they could confirm the info in their statement but they did not name their sources. It also appears the JCICS statement was premature given what is going to occur on Monday.

I have to agree with Kelly, it's an expected delay and will be quickly rectified. Until events occur on Monday, it simply isn't worth getting upset about.

Kevin,
The PGN has no right to refuse to take in all cases that were started before the end of the year, because the registration with the central authority is a requirement that will be enforced after the thirty days period that the law says, not during that period.

There is a new post at www.adaguatemala.org where I explain this and other things.

Best regards,

Susana Luarca

I'll take a last crack at getting some clarification on both the JCICS update and Kelly and Kevin's recent comments on the subject.

Can anyone explain what is meant by -- PGN is only processing cases that have been APPROVED? Does this mean that if Barrios has signed off on your case, it will be released to your attorney and you're good to go, but otherwise, your file is sitting until it is registered with the Central Authority?

Kevin just indicated that if your case was signed off on before December 31, then PGN is releasing them. Is that how we account for all of the "outs" this week? It's not that Barrios is still signing off on cases right now, but rather PGN is just releasing those that he wrapped up prior to the December 31 cutoff?

I think we're all just trying to figure out if everyone in process is affected by this latest delay or if there is a subgroup of us that may still be getting worked on in the PGN pipeline. For those that didn't get into PGN before December 31, this should not really be a surprise in light of the new law, but for those of us who have been in PGN for some time, it is a surprise if our cases have come to screeching halt pending registration with a to be established Central Authority.

Deborah,
I am still unable to bring up this new post by Susana on the ADA website from 1/5. Would you mind posting it here? Anyone else having a problem accessing it?

Okay.... I am here in Guatemala right now on my pick up trip of one of the children we are adopting. I called PGN yesterday and talked to Laura (nice gal) she said that they are not accepting any new cases and if you are kicked out on a previo they are not accepting those case until the "central Authority" is put in to place. She did not know how long that would be but she said it woud be awhile....????....!!!!
I have heard some people around here say 6 months to a year but do not know where they are getting that info becasue I don't think anyone knows! This is so very hard.

L.,
How do I contact the Adoption Supervisors? Thanks for responding. The lack of information from our agency in spite of the info that is obviously out there somewhere (Guatadopt gets it!), is making us suspicious. Frankly, I don't trust anyone at this point...

Hi Kelly,
I was AT PGN yesterday with our attorney and on the counter in big letters to the notaries it states (Spanish) No new cases unless they where registered with Central Authority before the new year.
So, what this means, is that as the notories try and submit new cases they will be rejected until the file is registered with central then they can return and submit.
Hope this helps,
Scott

Oh I forgot, when we were at PGN yesterday our attorney asked about Kick out cases from PGN. All the notories have to do is show a receipt that the case was submitted to PGN prior to 12/31 but received a kick out and then they will process the case under old law.

Like Kevin, I am also a survivor of the 2003 Hague mess in Guatemala. I feel your pain and agony as you pull your hair out waiting. Kevin is giving good advice, tie a knot and hang on with all you have, find appropriate ways to deal with the stress and depression that work for you. As your emotions will allow you, stay on top of what wonderful adoption advocates such as Guatadopt advise you to do but don't drive yourself crazy checking posts 20 times a day. Like once a day, stay aprized of what is going on and if they say write or call some one then do so, if they say sit tight, pray and wait for further direction then by all means do so!! Some times doing the right thing at the wrong time can make things worse. Speaking from experience.
Guatadopt staff, thanks for all you continue to do for the children of Guatemala.

BB,
How do you know about these upcoming announcements? What are your sources?
Lizzie

to margo- please do not write things like 6 months to a year for central authority when you have no idea!!!!!!!!even if you heard it, its only a rumor not fact!!!!! you are only adding to my unbearable stress level!!! please do not write rumors that tell us we wont have our babies for another 6 months to a year!!!!!!!!

bb where did you get this info???????????

Hello Kevin and Kelly,

I hope what was posted from Scott was accurate in regard to cases that have been KO of PGN but were submitted into PGN prior to DEC 31st will still be processed and not just put aside until the CA is created and in place. Our case was submitted on Dec 4th and was knocked out on DEC 20th for not having an employment certification for my wife who is a homemaker and it is clear in all our paperwork that she is a homemaker. It is apparent that the PGN is just making up things to KO files so they dont have to deal with them and wait for the CA to take over. We have already prepared the document to clarify this but who will be signing off on that PGN or CA? I am embarassed of the US Government and Guatemala for not making this process more transparent. There needs to be some accountabilty for those who are in the decision making positions in the US and Guatamala. I will be rattling some peaples cages because I cant be silent any longer any will make my feelings clear to the parties on the US side that have created problems that are not in the best interest of the children and the US citizens who employ them. God Bless to all who are going through this ridiculus process.

Paul

This is yesterday's post from the ADA site that I referenced in my post, for anyone who was having trouble getting to it.

Deborah

January 05, 2008
UPDATE January 4, 2008.

A. The Amparo.

The Adoption Law was published in the official newspaper on December 21st. 2007. . Since the Adoption Law violates the rights of the notaries who preside over adoption processes, by eliminating their right to do so, which is a right constitutionally protected, on December 27, 2007 a group of over one hundred notaries filed an amparo, which is a legal resource when there is a threat to a right protected by the Constitution or other laws. It was rejected because the Constitutional Court did not like the way the petition was phrased. Another petition of amparo was filed right away, on December 28th, 2007 and this time the CC admitted the amparo but neglected to request from Congress, to send to the court, either the file of the case or a detailed report of the facts as the Amparo Law states. We believe that the CC did not order the Congress to send those documents because such entity was closed for the holidays and the refusal to present those documents within 48 hours, according to the Amparo Law, would make the court to grant the suspension of the Adoption Law, right away.

This week, a group of notaries had an interview with the President of the Constitutional Court to urge him to follow the law and to demand from Congress the file of the case or a report of it, which he should have requested since December 28th., but neglected to do so. He claimed that the international pressure is tremendous, so he asked for a bogus previo, to buy time, and that pressure explains why the CC has not ruled about the suspension of the Adoption Law, either. It is obvious that the CC is not willing to approach the legal issues, but only to skirt them, for as long as they can, in order to give to the current authorities time to get the reward that UNICEF promised them in exchange for passing such a law and to keep happy the same consul and diplomats who were watching closely the voting of the Adoption Law, from a balcony in Congress, ready to pull out the US visas of the congressmen who did not vote as they were told by the always active US consul.

B. The PGN

Since January 2nd., the PGN is refusing to admit any cases that are not registered with the Central Authority, which has not been formed yet. That applies to any cases that are being presented this year, even those who were submitted before and rejected for any reason. The way we see it is that the requirement to have the case registered with the Central Authority is being enforced prematurely, because the Adoption Law gives thirty days to register the cases, which means that it is until that period is over, that the requirement of registration can be demanded.

Since the formation of the Central Authority is entirely in the hands of the government, if the CC does not grant the suspension of the Adoption Law, and the Central Authority is not formed yet by January 15th., we will file all legal resources to prevent them from using that requirement to deny the cases in process to be finalized according to the notarial system.

C. Bienestar Social

Within the last month, some female employees of the SBS have been visiting several hogars, requesting information about the children housed in each of them, their names and their legal situation. They even have tried to get the hogars records with a USB device, to copy all the information of the computers of the hogars. They say that they are making inventory of all the children pending adoption, for reasons that have nothing to do with helping out with their support, because they have said so. The question is what do they plan to do with the children. It could be that they plan to implement the Central Authority until February, and taking advantage that the Adoption Law entitles the Central Authority to charge for the adoptions to foreigners it would be very profitable for them to take over the children already in private care, who have medical records, lab tests and vaccinations, and start their own adoption program with some large US adoption agencies who are waiting to take them over. We would not be surprised if the plan is to delay the creation of the Central Authority, to allow the hostile takeover, in a legally impeccable move, allowed by the Adoptions Law.

Bienestar Social already appointed as its delegates for the Central Authority board of directors, according to the Adoption Law, the most vocal critics of the Guatemalan adoption system: two lawyers who work as directors of entities funded by UNICEF, CIPRODENI and Movimiento Social por los Derechos de la Ninez: Marvin Rabanales and Byron Alvarado. Rabanales has said numerous times that stolen children are used for adoptions, neglecting to mention the DNA test requirement to verify the mother-child relationship, that is being required by the PGN in ALL adoptions by consent of the mothers. They also organized the white ribbons campaign that used children who brought roses to the congressmen urging them to pass the adoption law. We have reasons to believe that their appointments will be short lived, but anyway, it shows who are behind the scenes, and what to expect from this wretched Adoption Law.

D. What to do?

To those parents whose adoptions are in process, we urge you to demand from the US DOS to stop putting pressure on the Guatemalan authorities to make it as difficult as possible to finish the adoptions that are in process. The registration requirement with the Central Authority and the submittal of the cases in process to the PGN are two different things, that only can be tied together until the thirty days period to register the cases in process is over. It is like saying: All cars must pay for license plates, and that payment must be done during the first month of the year. Nobody would say that only cars with new license plates can be driven around during January. Everybody would understand that all the cars are allowed to be used without new license plates until the end of the month, and that it will be until February when the authorities will fine or tow away those cars being used with no new license plates.

In Guatemala there are a lot of children still waiting to be placed with permanent loving families. Many more are being born every day. The birthmothers whose children could not be matched with a family before the end of the year are refusing to take them back, saying that they will just abandon them in the street if the children are given back to them. Bienestar Social is making very clear that they will not support the children, but just demand from the private institutions and persons to take good care of them and to find the means to do it, because not a penny will be given for their support. The only way to keep running the system that supplies childcare in default of a State organized system, is to keep adoptions open. Every year, the number of countries where it is still possible to adopt from, is shrinking. Let us join forces to reverse that situation. Every child deserves to be raised by a loving family, so do not let that those who do not care for the children be the ones who decide that those children do not deserve to live. All what they need is that one person believes that they are important and that they deserve to live and thrive. And that person could be you.

Susana Luarca, ADA
Posted by Susana at 03:00 AM | Comments (0)

Melinda, I think "approved" means approved by all the reviewers. So it looks like Barrios will sign off on all approved cases. There was an out on another board where she posted that her case was approved on 11/6 and her OUT was 1/4.

Listen to what BB just posted above! It came to me also just as BB stated from Adoption Supervisors Guatemala. I expect more news to come tomorrow or Tuesday. Hold tight just a day or two more!

It is fascinating, that even in this thread alone, we have conflicting information about resubmits. Scott, since you were at PGN, can you clarify who your attorney talked to that said that resubmits could be submitted with a PGN receipt? Boy, I am SO anxious for tomorrow's statements (if they actually happen!) Walking away to needlepoint and have a beer now..

Hey Scott,
You just given us a lot of hope (all of the courtroom 6 families that are trying to get back into PGN)
thank you!!!!
shawn

Je, Thanks for the feedback. Hopefully we'll get a better understanding of what is going on next week. Joint Council just added a note to their January 4 update. It doesn't add clarity to their statement, but please see below:

"Please note: Joint Council staff, particularly Tom DiFilipo, President & CEO, remain in frequent conversation with officials from both the U.S. government and the Guatemalan government. Joint Council will issue a more detailed analysis in the coming days, which will include important updates received at Joint Council's Board of Directors meeting with the U.S. Department of State and U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services on Monday, January 7th."

To the poster above who asked about Adoption Supervisors: If you have questions, or feel you are not getting good information from your attorneys/agencies, try calling Adoption Supervisors Guatemala (+502 2386 1051, or www.adoptionsupervisors.com) and ask for Lourdes Isalgue. Not cheap, but they were a godsend to me and, in my view, the ONLY reason my case was approved by PGN prior to 12/31 after about 8 weeks. They also seem to have a good read on the new law and what is happening at PGN and elsewhere. They are very responsive and speak good English. They are controversial and not well liked by the local lawyers who perform the adoptions, but work effectively behind the scenes.

Hello..Just a questions. We were PGN approved on Dec 5th 2007, and we are having a very difficult time getting our final Birth Certificate from Mixco. Has anyone on this forum experienced ths and what can be done to get this issued. I appreciate you feedback and help. Thank you.

Shannon,

I agree with you. I cannot believe how the comments to these posts are all over the spectrum. In many ways, it seems the PAPs and others in the forums are much more level-headed. What will be the news Monday and Tuesday? Will there even BE any news? Have a beer for me too :)

Thank you to the poster who relayed the info. about Adoption Supervisors.

Good evening. We returned from Guatemala, yesterday (Saturday). We were there when the PGN made the statement of the cases being kicked out of PGN with a Previo or any other reason. From what we learned while in Guatemala, it seems as if the new Central Authority will not be up and running until late February or early March. As of now, no members have been assigned to this task force. This has been very disturbing news, but we are grateful for the time spent with our son. We will continue to pray for all of the families that are still waiting. God Bless

Shawn C-
We have been stuck in FC #6 since June. Not waiting to go back into PGN but for the judge to issue her approval or deny the case. I would love to hear anything you know about this court and why so many others as you mentioned are waiting on #6 also. Thanks!

JaNae-
Yes many are experiencing delays in Mixco, Sayaxche other places. There are various reasons, some are issuing previos and some CR have changed their law to not issue adoption related bc's. Our USE cannot help as stated in their emails to the PAPs because the adoption decrees have not been registered nor bc's issued, so the adoption is not finalized yet.
Log onto the Guatadopt.com Forum, there are many PAPs and threads on the bc situation. Marie, Guatadopt.com

Heather or anyone...
Would you be willing to share the number to PGN?

Hey Lis,
You are not alone. There are a handfull of courtroom 6 families like yourself, that been having challenges since this summer If you can contact Kevin or Kelly of guatadopt, then can then contact me

The PGN number is (011) 502-2248-3200 Ext. 2037. First there will be a recording, once it stops then enter the ext. Someone will answer in spanish and you just have to say "do you speak Spanish" or "Habla Ingles" She will either say yes what I can I help you with or put you on hold. Keep in mind, PGN can be extremely hard to reach sometimes. Also, if you don't speak spanish, then sometimes you won't get an answer because the English speaking woman is out. But, she is very nice and extremely helpful. Good Luck!

Our family would also love the number to PGN if anyone was willing to share it.

Greetings,
My wife and I are also currently in Guatemala and would like to share what we know. The misinformation is coming from PGN told all lawyers that previoed cases would be considered "in process" and allowed to be re-submitted, but after Jan 1, they are NOT taking any new or provioed cases due to the court ruling. I spoke directly to PGN and they said they would like to take the previoed cases but cannot until a central authority is set up, which is anyones guess to how long that would be.
The problem being that many of us will have our documents expire and we will be back to square one if it is not set up quickly.
We need help some somewhere? Anyone have any ideas on how to force the court to allow PGN to finish their work and allow our children to come home?
Don

two #'s for PGN

011 502 2414 8787 X2037
011 502 2448 3200 X2037

You have to be persistant! Everytime they hang up on you call back a little later. Ususally they hang up if there is no one to speak English

Fridays are the best and Lara is great!

When you dial the # and hear the recording put in the extension when they anser ask for "English please"
they will ask for your case # if you do not have it they will go by your childs full name and will cofirm with your name.

Good luck and keep trying!

Thank you Thank you Kevin and Kelly for being calm rational voices amid all this chaos and worry. We have some very involved concerned support in our state among our elected officials. Please adivse us as soon as you can as to how we can ask them to advocate for all of us waiting to bring our children home. I'm sure I speak for a number of us who would much rather channel the energy from our current panic into something proactive like lobbying our elected officials.

In the meantime, I'm adding chocolate and knitting to your prescription for calm.

Thanks again for your level-headed words!

Stress relief is REALLY important. I may try to find some time to write a bit about it.

What I will say is be "nice" to yourselves. A dinner out or a massage may seem like a luxury, but your physical and mental health are necessities!!

I'm not a gamer, but my husband bought my daughter and myself a Wii with the Sports games. I have been wacking away at tennis balls during rain storms and have even made myself a little sore from it. I'm not too bad at Wii bowling...and I haven't tried the boxing (but I would guess that some PAPS might find a little relief at some good ole virtual punching).

Raquel~
I am distressed having read your comments that the CA won't be set up until late Feb/early March. Can I ask where you heard that from? A reliable source?
Thanks for your reply-
Mini

Could someone please explain to me how what is going on now constitutes grandfathering? Doesn't look like grandfathering to me.

Don, (Or anyone who knows)what court ruling are you refering to above?

I personally have no knowledge of what PGN is or isn't doing. However, I can say with all certainty that setting up a Central Authority is not something that will occur with simply hanging a sign on an office and processing of cases. I know that this is not the news that anyone wanted to hear on this forum, but a functional central authority will take time and a Feb/March begin is the promised begin date--that is a good case scenario. Of course, the change of Presidential administrations is likely a factor here...this is a time of little effectiveness as there is an 'out with the old' and 'in with the new' dynamic here. Don't intrepret this as an opening for a change of the Hague Convention and Ortega laws passed by Guate Congress--no matter what Susana L & ADA publishes about Constitutional challenges. The Congressional vote was solid and across multiple constituencies. The notaries are kicking and screaming because their profitable business is withering away. The attorneys can protest up one side and down another, the argument is over and the days of things operating with limited (almost no) government oversight are over. Everyone needs to take a deep breath and trust that NO ONE with a conscience (or voice in the matter) really wants children stuck in limbo and, when appropriate, not processed for adoption--no matter what side they take in this matter. Ultimately, this is a humanitarian crisis that will be resolved, in my opinion, as ethically as possible. At this point, you have got to trust.

From this statement on 12/19/2007, from http://www.travel.state.gov/family/adoption/country/country_3908.html,
I thought PGN was going at act as CA until one was in place.

The adoption law passed by Guatemala’s congress on December 11, 2007 permits adoption cases initiated before its effective date of December 31, 2007 to be completed under the current notarial process, if those cases are "registered" with the new Central Authority for adoptions within 30 business days after the effective date of the law. At this time, the Government of Guatemala has not formally defined what will be required to “register” a pending adoption case. U.S. Embassy Guatemala has learned that the Government of Guatemala may consider the filing of the notification (“Aviso”) with the PGN as the “registration” required by the law.

Some have commented on CA taking as long as March to be formed, how is this legal when in-process cases need to be registered within 30 days of the law going into effect?

Okay. I was tired of just sitting here with no info feeling helpless. So, I just emailed US DOS urging them to encourage Guatemalan govt to granfather in all in-process adoptions under old laws. Let's flood them with emails & phone calls to put the pressure on.
Faith...who's been in process since summer '06 and tired of all the games.

I think that any time we try to stereotype an entire group of people, we make a mistake. And when it comes to the ICA debate, no one is pure good or evil.

To respond to KarenMS (welcome back)... I hope our in-process readers separate the need for a "fully functioning" Central Authority from the need to have some semblance of a CA designate how one regisers a case. If the CA gets established but not fully functional, they could easily specify something like the aviso as being registration.

Don, one small correction. Saying the courts isn't accurate. The Congress of Guatemala passed a new law. The courts now have to rule on challenges to that law. But I don't think the courts can necessarily tell PGN what to do at the moment.

Kevin
Guatadopt.com

Kevin,

so who is telling PGN what to do now?

has anyone heard or thought of Guate. granting a extension for the formation of the central authority if they cant form it in time and letting cases go forth until the authorty is up and running

TO RACHEL:

I made it VERY clear in my email that it was talk around here and also that I do not know where they could be hearing that b/c even PGN says they do not know, I have said nothing more then other posts where people are sharing rumors.... its all rumors at this point. I suggest you do not read these forums if you can not handle it.... no one can compare timelines! You have read about people gettin out after 4 months and some 2 years. About unbearable stress I bet you could find 4000 families that feel the same way... I have an 8 and 10 year old that just got kicked out of PGN last week when we should have been getting out, It is umbearable to be in Guatemala right now and to tell them I have no idea when I will be back for them....and they are fully aware, pretty unbearable, a friend of mine got kicked out at 8 weeks.... unbearable! Hopefully your agency told you it is a 6-12 month process right now and to brace yourself....mine did! Remember everything here in a sense is a rumor, even the words from PGN irtself.... it changes every day!

Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! To the two people who gave the numbers and great advice on calling PGN. We really appreciate it!

Calling PGN was the greatest thing that's happened this week! From what I understand - things are still moving along for people in PGN. SLowly as it may be, let's hope for the best. kisses to all.

To Kelly:

Re: Stress Relief

I went out and bought the Guitar Hero III with the wireless Guitar for my husband @ xmas. But i think I play it more than him. Major Stress relief. I think we may to upgrade to Rock Band, so i can beat the drums for a bit...but i will hold off on that for now.

Thanks for all you do @ Guatadopt.com. Good or Bad, it's alway nice to have a trusted source for information. I hope my small contribution was helpful. please let me know if there is anything I can do to help.

I called PGN today and was told by Laura that the second reviewer was completing the file and that it would be out in about two weeks. My case went in PGN around April and had one or two KO's. I asked her if they were still processing cases, and she said yes. I don't know that they aren't telling everyone the "two week" answer, or maybe mine is different because the first reviewer had approved it, but that's my latest info! Praying hard.

I want to throw in a Whoa Boy!

I think this is a very stressful time for those in process and everyone needs to take a step back and find something to relieve these bottled up emotions. But please, lets try to keep from taking it out on each other. I have let some of the "hearsay" come up on the site because the posters have clearly posted where they heard the information and in some cases qualified that it was rumor. Verification from Lara (or Laura) at PGN is perfectly fine to post since she is closest to the issue of what cases are being processed. But I want to warn folks that I don't think its appropriate to post speculation from agencies, attorneys, etc. Its counter productive.

I'm not upset with any poster....but I would like to remind everyone that it is very hard on all involved and lets stay supportive even if you are raising difficult points about the situation.

Furthermore, there were several emails and posts elluding to flooding DOS or the Embassy or whoever about this situation. Frankly, I would rather we centralize our concern instead of taking up their time dealing with a gazillion emails.

Please also remember that these children ARE Guatemalan and will be the rest of their lives. Lets make sure that our comments are respectful of the culture and "their children". We may disagree on how things are implemented...but lets make sure that we are presenting the good side of adoptive families and not what can be interpreted as the "Ugly American".

Again, if you are having trouble with the stress....you need to find an outlet NOW.

Kelly (guatadopt.com)

Dear Mini,

When we were in Guatemala, it was on the news and in the papers that the new Central Authority had NOT picked members, yet. They stated that they would be up and running in about 45 to 60 Vusiness days. I talked to a friend of mine that has a friend at PGN and they agreed with all of the statements.
I pray that the new President will change this status and put a RUSH on it. God Bless and keep up the faith!

I got a call from our agency today letting us know that we are out of PGN!!! This is the best news in the midst of all of this chos! We were submitted to PGN on December 18, 2007, which makes it 3 weeks today. I hope this gives everyone some hope!

Kelly,

"I would rather we centralize our concern instead of taking up their time"

I agree with this Kelly, but how do we "centralize our concern"? I am willing to help, but don't know what to do at this point.

Thanks,
Lizzie

congrats tammy! i'm so happy for you. we've been in since dec 14th....yeah! all the best.

I agree, Lizzie--I feel like I need to be doing something proactive right now. Kelly, Kevin, Marie, Guatadopt team: are we waiting it out right now to hear what, if anything, happened at the Mon/Tue meeting with JCICS (did it even happen?)? Thanks! For now, I think we'll look for a game system and Guitar Hero--who wouldn't have fun with that:)

Just FYI: The computer system has been down all morning at PGN. They have asked me to call back tomorrow to check on my status.

Congrats Tammy and family!!!!!

I have been reading this site for a while but this is my first time to post. We got an email from our agency today stating "As of January 1, 2008, all new cases in Guatemala will need to be registered with the National Adoption Council. This Council is in the process of being established and put into place. Until this occurs, cases will be put on hold until they have the required registry from this Council that is needed in order to move forward. I have not been able to get a straight answer from them about a lot of things - they seem to always answer things in more broad and general terms.

If you have received this email, your case was submitted in PGN some time in 2007, and your case is not out with a previo. This is good! We are not sure how long it will be before PGN continues to process their current caseload. We have heard that it may be a 3-4 week delay while the NAC is established, but this timeframe is subject to change". I am confused because this makes it sound like everything is going to come to a halt in PGN but then I saw that Tammy got out on 1/8/08 after going in on 12/18/07 (we went into PGN for the first time on 12/20/07). Any guess as to why my agency is telling me something different?

Mike - I got a similar email from my agency. I think that they are very afraid to say anything about anything at this point. We just have to wait. I think that it's very good news that Tammy got out, not only so quickly, but that she got out at all right now. I really think that everything has to work itself out of course I am DYING to get my 2 girls home asap but we have to sit tight.
Good Luck

I got word from my agency that they had a case come out of PGN with approval yesterday, so it looks like PGN is still working on existing cases, but for how long, who knows.

The information on PGN was priceless! I just got off the phone with them this morning and those pointers were lifesavers! Unfortunately we got the bad news that our file had been issued a previo and we are now part of the hundreds of other families waiting to be allowed resubmittal.

I don't know what I would have done with out you guys.

Tammy,
I am amazed at your PGN only taking 3 weeks. We went into PGN on 12/3 and here on the 1/24/08 we still have no news. I worry about calling down to Guatemala as our agency has advised against it. How long have you been in the entire process?
Are you from US? East or West? Agency or Atty?