So does this mean if we were registered early last week we still wont get official registration in 8 businesss days???any insight thanks

Thanks for the "update" Kelly. I have question, I'm nearing week 8 in PGN for round two, I have hope that I may be approved this time, does my attorney still have to register my case with CA? What happens to the cases that get a kick out after the 30 day deadline to get registered?

Any thoughts?

So, THERE IS STILL NO PROCESS in place, my agency was right, I coudn't believe my ears, neither myself or my husband, when they told me so.

I wonder if one day we'll really have our son's home!?!

IN A NUTSHELL, MY AGENCY WAS RIGHT, ALL IS STILL VERY UNCERTAIN. NOBODY IS ABLE TO PREDICT ANYTHING ANYMORE, EXCEPT THAT WE HAVE NOTHING SETTLED YET, AND LOTS AND LOTS OF DELAYS, DELAYS, DELAYS...

Thanks a lot for your continuous up-dates and support in this awful nightmares.

Cathy

Kevin-who will be reviewing and approving cases for those who are grandfathered in-PGN or the Central Authority? We got kicked out of PGN for the second time and it appears that it was for nebulous reasons. Please advise as we do not see a way out of PGN especially since they will lose their jobs at some time in the future. Hoping for new people.

But, the $10,000 question is what is the deadline for in-process cases (before Dec 2007) to register? Is it 1/30/2008? 1/31? Or sometime in early Feb -- JCICS reported it as 2/11? This makes a giant difference for us in process PAP's and I have been hoping Guatadopt could help answer this question.

Thank you for this important update, we have all been waiting to hear what is happening "on the ground" with the Central Authority and of course with our registration process.

As you can imagine, any updates on the registration process and when cases will again proceed is much, much appreciated.

Just an FYI, our understanding is that Sr.Gordillo is the Solicitor General of the PGN, which is the head position at PGN---The Attorney General of Guatemala is Sr. Florido. Correct me if I am wrong.

Again, THANK YOU!!! and Guatadopt for helping us families. I do not know what we would do with you.

Is there anyone that we can appeal to in writing to help sort things out? Our elected officials? DOS? Anyone? I'm guessing the answer is probably "no" -- I suppose Guatemalan officials just have to work this out on their own.

FWIW - We received Embassy Consent 12/28. Our case was registered with the CA this past week. We are waiting for PGN to accept our case.

DENNIS,

we are in the same exact situation: Pre-approved by the Embassy 12-28, requesting registration with the CA last monday, waiting for PGN to accept our case.
Praying God to have this nightmare ending soon with our five years old orphan having a family; hoping that US authority are helping the guatemalan authority to fix the problems.

Vince

I'm still confused by everything, our agency told us that the attornies filled out what was needed, and no new forms will come about.
Dennis-- we are at the same place you are, got our PA on dec 28th and waiting to enter PGN.. gosh i hope it's soon, i'm tired of thinking our children are there and we are here,, they need us!!!

Hello, We were registered prior to Dec. 31, 2007 and the U.S. Embassy have a case number for our daughter. Please explain the distrubing information. Thanks in advance. Janis

Kelly,

I've always appreciated and learned a great deal about Guatemalan politics and the adoption debate through GuatAdopt.com. Thanks for your insight. But I think posting a link to this article from the Latin Business Chronicle, which is funded by the right-wing Heritage Foundation (Washington's neoliberal economic consensus that has seriously hurt Latin American social and worker justice movements in recent decades), does a disservice to your site, its objectivity and concern for human rights in Guatemala.

Among other things, this article calls Columbia's right-wing president (and pawn of the Bush administration) Uribe "pragmatic," identifies Guatemala's conflicto armado as being a "guerilla civil war" and undercuts the number of victims from the civil war by half (not 100,000, but 200,000 were murdered during the awful, 36-year civil war -- 90 percent or more by the Guatemalan military, which was largely funded and trained by the United States.)

For a more accurate portrayal of the current state of Guatemalan politics, I'd suggest your readers check out Francisco Goldman's new book "The Art of Political Murder," in which General Molina, who lost to Colom in the recent presidential runoff, is implicated in the 1998 murder of progressive bishop Juan Gerardi -- Guatemala's "crime of the century" and other heinous acts.

thanks for reading, y paz y justicia en guatemala!

hopefulpaps, Your attorney should have tried to get you registered! Yes, the form is very similar to that which was submitted to the PGN, BUT, it is not the same form, that form was for PGN and this new one is for CA! Your attorney is taking a huge gamble, to say that he is going to bank on the PGN form, or that am amparo was filed.

I thought I was safe too, until I gat a KO and talked to Laura at PGN who told me that yes, I was KO, so now I have to register with the CA.

As far as the CA registering all cases in PGN, this is a gamble too, because what we're hearing is that the PGN, does not feel that they need to give files to the CA. I could be wrong but what I'm thinking is that the PGN has no legal grounds to release the files to the CA.

The only people that the PGN is required, by law, to be in contact with is the attorney who submitted your case. I was told that if I come to PGN to talk to someone, then I will have to bring my attorney. PGN files, I'm sure are confidential and they can't just hand them over to CA without legal grounds to do so.

So, for your attorney to take these gambles, is very frustrating. No matter what he says or thinks, the new law determines which cases will be grandfathered in.

It did not say, if your case is in PGN, you are grandfathered in, or if we kick out the previously elected CA and add new CA, then we will give you more time to register with the CA, so that you can be grandfathered in, or ... the law does not require the PGN to release their files to the CA, it also does not require the CA to give an approval.

THE CA'S ONLY RESPONSIBILITY UNDER THE NEW LAW IS TO REGISTER THE CASES that began prior to the new law coming into force. THE DEFINITION OF REGISTER IS: a. A formal or official recording of items, names, or actions. b. A book for such entries. c. An entry in such a record.

What the law states, is that in order to be grandfathered in, the case must be registered with the CA, within one month. I guess if we want to get technical, that could be in 3-4 days, however, most feel that the month was a month of business days, so according to that definition, we have till Jan 11, to get registered.

The law just says to get registered with the CA, it doesn't say the previously or newly elected CA, just CA.

So, if at all possible try and put the pressure on your attorney to get the form filled out asap and at least turned into the CA, so he has a stamp of when it was turned in, at least that gives you some legal proof that you did all you can to get registered with the CA.

So, to sum up ... your attorney has no real legal grounds to fight for you if he does not attempt to register you.

Those attorneys who filled out the forms, and submitted them, will have legal grounds to file suit against the CA if they attempt to say that the registration was not completed, because whether the CA accepts/approvals it or not, the truth is that the attorney did register it by filling out the form and submitting the form, that is all that the new law requires, not one things else.

The congress voted on the law and it was passed. This means that a lot of different people got together and decided that the cases started in 2007 would only need to register in one month, in order to be grandfathered in. They passed this law to give fair time to those who started cases in 2007.

The country of Guatemala is so use to corruption, that one or two people think that they can change the law or not follow the law because of who they are or who they know.

Guatemala's future strength will be found in the individuals who take a stand and fight for or enforce the law that was put in place by those who the people of Guatemala choose to represent them. These individuals hold office with integrity, not scheming and planning to undermine the elected President or any other person who was elected to public office.

So, the CA in a sense is not even following the new law. The CA can make changes and place new requirements on cases in 2008, but they should not be making it impossible for those cases in 2007 to get into or back into PGN.

Ok, last closing really. My case has been submitted to the CA, so I feel that we would have strong legal grounds to fight for our case being grandfathered, but I'm putting this post on the main board too, because in the past with my old agency, I did have bad attorneys, who were lazy and didn't really care or tried to do nothing leaving all the fighting up to other attorneys.

So, if you do not know for sure that your attorney filled out the form and delivered it to the CA, I would push this big time and make sure they get it done asap.

PiggyParker -

Point taken. I'm not trying to politicize in any way. Actually, I wanted to list a few articles that would get those who are new to politics/culture of Guatemala reading (and hopefully, understanding the challenges faced). I apparently lost my others when I published and I guess I will have to search for them again....sigh.

Books are great....but sometimes articles are good introductions (whats happening here and now!). As for the opinions of the writers, I have to admit that I like to show many views regardless of whether I agree. I think it shows just how precarious written history can be!

So, is ANYONE talking about lobbying for an extension on the registration deadline? I know the timeline is in the law, but it is fairly typical in this country for legislators to pass new laws with extensions as goverment buaeracracy gets up and running. It seems like this new organization needs more time to work out the details!!

I just finish reading the last post by airstar98. Thank you very much for your comments which I completely agree with. My husband and I are currently in Guatemala visiting our daughter for the 4th time in 3 months since she was referred to us and have spent between a week and 10 days with her on each trip. Needless to say we are doing everything we can to make things move forward. Our case was also KO on the first week of January and we were hopeful it was going to be resubmitted to PGN last week after it had already been registered with the CA, but now the new thing is that there is no CA or at least they can decide who is in charge and PGN cannot accept any old cases until these people stop playing their little political games. I agree with you that whether cases are registered with the previously elected CA or the newly elected CA is irrelevant and should not be interfere or delay a process after all legal requirements have been met. We have encountered all kinds of requirements that do not make sense at all but have understood based on the premises that we are dealing with a government where corruption reigns and the more difficult they make the process the more they stand to benefit, but after knowing that our case was ready to be re-filed last week and it was illegally rejected is an abuse of power and a violation of the right of the children. Being this the case I believe that at this point something immediate should be done and we should not keep quite. As crazy as it may sound I believe that all attorneys and parents currently caught up in the middle of this political game should voice our opinion in the form of a protest at PGN. I understand that many of the parents waiting for their cases to be resolved are not currently in Guatemala, but we can definitely organize it and schedule a day for it, it can be done and the more of us that participate the greater the impact and the more chances we will have to get results. We can also inform the media so that this protest is covered and the world knows what is really happening and why changing a system from one day to the next without budget and/or planning was a bad a idea to begin with. I will be in Guatemala until next week and will visit PGN and try to get some answers but if we don't see any positive developments and/or resolution to this crisis by the end of next week we should take a more proactive approach in the form a an organized protest. It will take a little bit of effort to put it together but hey, we have made it this far, why wait for others to resolve our problems, because ultimately, it is our problem and it should be our decision as well as our right to make those who believe themselves to be untouchable that we really care for our children and the children of Guatemala and will do whatever it takes to give them what their burocratic system and absurd laws are depriving them of: the right to be born, live, and be happy. If anyone is interested in pursuing this route please post a comment requesting my private email address.

Our facilitators are now telling us that the CA has revised the form required for registration and added several pages. Can anybody confirm this? Anybody seen the new form?

My husband and I returned on Saturday from a five day trip to see our little girl (our first visit). We were registered the first time with PGN back in Nov. and were KOed. My understanding from our agency representative in Guatemala was that our case IS filed with the CA... however, an amparo has been filed and the CA is not doing anything with the cases until these legal issues are settled. She, however, said they were hoping things would be worked out by the end of this week. If that were the case then we could be resubmitted to PGN and hopefully make it out this time. That is basically what I understand the rest of you to be saying as well. Is that correct?

If there are new forms and we were filed under the previous forms does that mean that we have to re-register? According to Airstarr it would seem no but I'm not sure what any of this means exactly.

You would think that they would be more than ready to release the final bunch of in process files so that they could fully focus on the new laws or system! They have closed the country at this point so it's not like they have to deal with new cases yet... just finish those of us who are grandfathered and be done (with this part anyway)!

I guess what I don't understand is: Where is the Embassy in all this? I would think, with hundreds of cases at risk of being terminated, they would have weighed in by now. All cynicism aside, they must recognize this as a potentially large conflict between the two countries.

Luna7372,
I read your post earlier and been thinking about it.

There is something we as PAPs can do, even with this problem being in the county of Guatemala.

When I faced corruption and had to run to the Embassy, they told me that we had to fight for the baby in her own country.

So, we hired one of the best attorney's here. He has high ethics and he is not an adoption attorney. He worked with a criminal attorney to get our little girl's custody out of the hands of the corrupt facilitator.

So, I have already been to court here and I've seen justice in the courts here. Well actually, I never went in person, but they represented me.

And, there was one point that we thought about doing a "class action suit" against this man because we knew of other families in process with him, who were getting no where with their adoptions.

Anyways, long story short, we could file a "class action suit" against the CA, for not following the law and simply registering our cases to get us back into PGN.

By the CA not following the law, that has cost all of us PAPS undo stress, paperwork to expire (which cost more money on our part to redo) and the children being delayed in getting a family (when we all know the CA is not paying for these children to have food or even meeting their needs while the CA delays their opportunity to have a home).

Also, something I thought about is that the CA is saying that they will start releasing the files this Wed, well that is Jan 30, the very day, one calendar month from when the law was passed.

I'm going to call my attorney and see what would be involved and how soon they can file the suit. Then post again.

If anyone wants to email me, you can do it through the forum.

Ray- Yes, my agency informed us yesterday that the CA has added new information requirements to the form. I guess we shouldn't be surprised.

you can email the state at fullergw@state.gov

Ok, I just spoke with one of my attorneys, and she said she spoke to the CA today and they have promised her that they will start releasing the files with the registration needed to get back into PGN next week.

I asked her about the legality of the date of Jan 31 vrs Feb 11 and she said that as long as we submitted our forms by Jan 30, we have legal grounds to file suit if they try and give us a problem.

She really feels that the CA will hold to their word to release the files that were registered next week.

I think we should give them one more opportunity to hold to their word and then if they break their word, we should file the "class action lawsuit" against the CA.

We've already got several families interested in being part of this, since posting this on the adoption.com site.

Our attorney told us last week that the certification from Central Authority will only take a week. Today they told me that the Central Authority is going to be giving official registration certifications on Wednesday, my daughter's 1st Birthday! I hope this turns to be true.

airstar....I would be very interested in talking to you further....can you PM me...nicksmom66
Thanks !

I am sure that all the people, included our DOS with the Embassy in Guatemala City and the UNICEF, that pushed very hard to have the Ortega Law passed, are working to have all the in process cases grandfathered.

AFTER ALL, THEY ALL SAID THAT THE ULTIMATE GOAL OF THE ORTEGA LAW IS TO CARE ABOUT THE GUATEMALAN CHILDREN. I CAN NOT IMAGINE THAT NOW THEY ARE NOT COMMITTED TO UNITE THE CHILDREN ( SPECIALLY THE ONES LIVING IN AN ORPHANAGE ) WITH THE ADOPTING PARENTS; AND I CAN NOT BELIEVE THAT THE DOS AND THE US EMBASSY IN G.C. HAVE ABANDONED THE AMERICAN CITIZENS.

I WANT TO BELIEVE THAT THE AMERICAN DIPLOMACY IS WORKING TO HELP US ALL. MAY BE IT IS WORKING QUITELY BUT I AM SURE IT IS WORKING.

VINCE

luna7372,

I truly do admire your passion and I understand why you would call for a protest. The anti-adoption protesters have certainly had their share of time in the spotlight lately. I am afraid, however, that by staging a protest you may give the government an easy opportunity to arrest you, thereby seriously jeopardizing your adoption. I have done quite a bit of traveling abroad, and one of the first pieces of advice I received was, "in most places, you're guilty until proven innocent." I'm not trying to tell you what to do. I'm just adding a perspective. Trust me, as an in-process PAP currently Ko'ed from PGN, I deeply feel your frustration!

I am so sorry, I put next week on my post and I meant this week, WED. so, so, sorry, I'm still thinking it's the weekend, yikes!!!!

So, we got two more days to wait on CA, for a show of good faith and keeping their word AND following the new law as it pertains to those families who began an adoption in 2007.

Airatar or anyone I dont know if you know this or not my atty registered me last friday and the ca accepted the form he turned in. will we need to hand in new form or addendum? thanks

I was told that all you need, is to fill out the addendum, if the CA already accepted your forms.

But, those attorney who showed up the day that the CA had the new form, were required to get the new form filled out and turned in.

airstar, thank you for your posting. I also believe that a class action suit will be a more viable solution, if any, I also think we should give the CA another opportunity and see if they keep their word and if not we should proceed. I met with our attorney and her staff in Guatemala on the 30th and they feel positive that the CA will release the files, however, they went back on the 31st and had no answer; they told me to follow up with them today so hopefully they will get the "constancia" we need to re-file with PGN. I will post as soon as I hear from them.

I also appreciate Kathy's concerns and input regarding my previous post. Thank you Kathy, hopefully there will be a less risky solution to this crisis.

Ok, this is what my atty said, as of 3:00 yesterday afternoon, the "constancias" that were being released stopped.

Those attys who did get a constancia tried to submit to PGN and PGN would not accept the constancia because of the amparao that was filed.

She said that the report that there is two CAs is not accurate, she said they are mixed up, she said that there is only one CA.

She said there are two groups of people, Berger's and Colom's who are fighting over the positions, BUT there is only one CA.

She said that yes they told us MONDAY and that is accurate, but everything changes so quickly that she can not give me a date.

She said she will let me know next week what the PAP's may need to and can do to help this situation.

Sorry, I wish I had better news, but at least I do believe this is very accurate.

JCICS website is reporting that the new Central Authority has stopped processing registrations.

Hello, Airstar, Thanks for the update. I'll check back on Monday to see if you have any news from your attorney and/or any other information as to what can be done.