kevin,
thanks again for all of your hard work & dedication...
As waiting families what could we do to make sure we all get grandfathered.. who in particular can we address our concerns to.

thank you

Try to have faith.....I received an email the other day from a dear friend who is also in the middle of a GUAT. Adoption. It was a picture of several people carrying their rather large wooded cross. The one man asked God to lighten his load...he proceeded to cut off some of the bottom of the cross. He carried it a little more then asked again for God to take some of the weigh off! He again shortened his cross. He began to carry again and off is the distance he saw a gap in the road......the people around him simply put their cross over the gap and walked on.....the man's cross was too short to bridge the gap!!! Have faith in God! We are carrying a heavy load....but God has a plan! He will see it through! That little email has brought me much comfort in the past few days! Hope it does the same for all of you! God Bless all in this difficult process!

Who should we contact- what else can we do-how could they not give an extension - they are the ones who took so long putting legal ca in place.

Kevin & Kelley, how can the PAP's put pressure on the US to help registration actually happen? The PAP's are a powerful resource ready to do what you suggest......do you have any ideas?

Maybe this is an obvious answer to those who have kept up with this saga, but what will happen to a case that is refused registration with the CA by the deadline - does it then have to wait and be reprocessed under the new law? This result seems absurd to me, but I can't seem to follow what will happen if the case has a problem with it and registration is somehow refused. Help!

Biff, thanks for posting that. That is exactly what I needed to hear today! God Bless You!

HUGE NEWS HERE!!! KEVIN PLEASE READ THIS AND LOOK INTO THIS, THIS INFO COMES STRAIGHT FROM ATTYS, THAT WERE IN LINE ALL DAY AND THEN AT 4:00, ONE OF THE CA REPRESENTATIVES CAME OUT TO TALK AND ANSWER QUESTIONS.

THIS IS WHAT WE ARE BEING TOLD.

***IF YOU DO NOT HAVE THE REGISTRATION NUMBER BY FEB 12!!!***

YOU WILL NOT!!! BE GRANDFATHERED IN!!!

THIS DOESN'T MEAN SUBMIT YOUR FORM, OR SUBMIT AN INCOMPLETE FORM AND YOUR GRANDFATHERED IN, NO, CA MUST GIVE YOU A REGISTRATION NUMBER AND !!!

GET THIS, CA IS GOING TO GIVE PREVIOS, AND YOUR PREVIOS MUST BE FIXED BEFORE THEY WILL GIVE YOU A REGISTRATION NUMBER!!!

THIS IS NOT RUMOR ON THE STREETS, THIS CAME STRAIGHT FROM THE ATTYS THERE, SO, PLEASE SOMEONE LOOK INTO THIS.

THE WAY CA IS OPERATING RIGHT NOW IS AS FOLLOWS:

YOU GO EARLY IN THE MORNING AND GET A NUMBER, THE NUMBER HAS THE DATE FOR THE NEXT DAY, YOU SHOW UP ON THAT DAY AND WAIT ALL DAY, SO YOU DON'T MISS THEM CALLING YOUR NUMBER.

THERE IS A SUPER LONG TABLE WITH MANY PEOPLE AROUND IT AND ALL DAY LONG THEY ARE ACCEPTING HUGE PILES OF PAPERS FROM ATTYS, MANY PILES WERE A GOOD HALF FOOT THICK!!!

THE ATTY WAITS TILL HIS NUMBER IS CALLED. THEN THEY HAND OVER THE PILE, THEN THEY WAIT FOR MINUTES, HOURS, OR THE WHOLE DAY, OUTSIDE THE DOOR WAITING TO GET THE FILES BACK.

IT TOOK ALL DAY TO GET TO NUMBER 47 WITH A WHOLE BUNCH OF PEOPLE WITH NUMBERS STILL WAITING.

CA SAID THEY WILL KEEP WORKING TILL ALL THE NUMBERS ARE TAKIN CARE OF AND TO THEIR CREDIT THEY ARE WORKING SUPER HARD, WITH LITTLE BREAKS AND EATING A FEW BITES HERE AND THERE FROM A LITTLE BIT OF FOOD AND SODA ON A SIDE TABLE.

SO THEY ARE WORKING HARD, BUT, THEY ARE ALSO FROM WHAT WE ARE TOLD ISSUING PREVIOS AND IF YOU GET A PREVIO, YOU MUST FIX IT, AND GET ANOTHER NUMBER TO GET THE FILE SUBMITTED AGAIN, WHILE YOU WAIT OUTSIDE AND HOPE YOU DON'T GET ANOTHER PREVIO, BECAUSE IF YOU DO, YOU HAVE TO TRY AND SUBMIT AGAIN, AND IF YOU DON'T GET THE REGISTRATION NUMBER BY FEB 12, YOU WILL NOT BE GRANDFATHER IN.

THIS IS HUGE, KEVIN, SOMEONE PLEASE GIVE US A COURSE OF ACTION.

THREE DIFFERENT INDIVIDUALS WERE TAKING PICTURES FOR THE NEWS.

WE NEED TO UNITE AND USE POLITICAL AND MEDIA TO HELP US IN THIS FIGHT TO BRING OUR CHILDREN HOME.

Great suggestion, Kevin! I just think it's such a shame, literally, 40 days have gone by and files have just sat since Jan. 1st PGN closing. Our babies need to be in their forever home--it's what's best! We knew there would be delays, but wanted to believe they'd be short lived.

Obviously, we understand CNA wants the forms resubmitted. I think your plan can expedite the process- we can NOT have any case not started in 07 not make the grandfather clause. Especially since most lawyers went through the effort with the first CNA and have a registration #! I would suggest they honor the first stamp by letting those cases back into PGN and continue to register those who need to get registered, register. Once the CNA is "caught up" with the cases not previously registered, then the other lawyers can go to re-register while in review at PGN and the stamp can be resubmitted without the KO! AND it should not take LONGER THAN A WEEK OR TWO AFTER THE 2/12 DATE to re-register- or cases will get a previo and the extra 8-10 weeks for a resubmit would not be ok!(our case was registered on 1/28)

Oh, I will have patience, but it will be hard to swallow if ANY case is not grandfathered...I sure hope they figure out how to do it all by the 12th (which would be wonderful!) or like you said extend it-it's the right thing to do- for all, but mostly to start getting those babies to their forever families!

I so appreciate the communication - as you know the lawyers are too busy dealing with the reality of registration, and our agency is hesitant to tell us too much....and they're giving our lawyer the time to get his job done! YOU ARE OUR ONLY LINK to what's going on---I don't expect an up date daily, but it's been GREAT to know what's really going on!

Words can not express the thanks for all you and Kelly do!

It's a nightmare!!

Only five days in total to register thousand of cases.Unless they extend the dead line, after all the Ortega Law says 30 business days and the people and the CA did not work for 30 days: they just started working last wednesday!!!

I hope our DOS and US Embassy are helping to fix the problems. I hope they do not tell us that they can not do anything because this is an internal affair of a sovereign country. Guatemala was not considered a sovereign country when USA pushed for a new adoption law; it was not considered a sovereign country when people from the Embassy went to the guatemalan Congress to take note of the congressmen pro and contra the Ortega Law.

IMAGINE IF SOMETHING LIKE THAT WOULD HAVE HAPPENED TO THE US CONGRESS, WHAT THE REACTION WOULD HAVE BEEN?

VINCE

Susana,
How many files did each of the ten people who were able to register adoptions with the CNA by mid-day today have? For example, if each person had 100 adoptions, were 1000 children and their families registered?
To me, knowing the number of adoptions registered by each of these people would help me understand how feasible is will be to get all in-process children and their adoptive parents registered by Tuesday.
Thank you,
Brandon's loving and anxiously waiting mother

*** OMG News FLASH, I JUST GOT WORD, I CAN'T GIVE SPECIFICS, BUT MANY ATTYS GOT REGISTRATION NUMBERS TODAY***

I JUST NOW GOT THE NEWS

*** OMG I AM SO VERY HAPPY BUT, STILL THE PRESSURE NEEDS TO STAY ON FOR THOSE OTHER CASES OUT THERE***

***THIS IS VERY EXCITING NEWS, AND I WOULD ALMOST GUARANTEE, THAN ANY ATTY WHO GOT THE REGISTRATION NUMBERS FOR THEIR CLIENTS WILL LET THE AGENCIES KNOW ASAP!!!!

But, still contact your agency or whoever, and try to confirm, for your case, this is good news and I can't imagine an atty not wanting to share the news with their client, unless the news in not positive for their case

Kevin, The US got us all into this mess. Who can we call or E-Mail on the US side to get presure on CA to extend the time frame, after all CA has only been working for all of what 2 days. They were supposed to be up and running with in the first 8 days of January. It is ONLY FAIR that they start counting 30 WORKING days from when the mess got squared away last week. The US from my understanding is looking the other way on 2 other countries that are not and will not be Hague complient. Sound like a double standard to me. Thats my 2 cents

Today my attorney did number 21 and got out of CNA by 8:00pm. She has to go back tomorrow to pick up the files and registration number. The lines and wait time are long but it is because a lot of attorney have more than 1 case. For example there is one that have 93 cases, so do the math.

I think that the new CNA has the will to work overtime and get all cases registered before the 12th.

I too would like to know how we can draw some attention to enforce some things on both the US and the Guatemalan side. I know CA is the main issue, but on the US side of things there are many of us that have waited well over 60 days for Pre-Approval. It is not just the Guatemalan side that is stalling on things. The US is doing the same in regards to Pre-Approvals. We need some accountability. How do we get that and where do we go for it? Is there any media out there that we could rally to get some help? That's fine if they want to change the adoption process, but the Ortega Law was passed to protect those of us already in process. Let's get these children already in process home. If they want to shut things down or make changes, fine, but do not start imposing things on those that were in process and supposed to be protected by the Grandfather Clause. These stalling tactics on both sides; US and Guatemala; are ridiculous. We just want our son home.

Kevin,

The problem is not that the CNA cannot come up with an efficient way to do the registration. It is that they are trying at all costs not to do it. The CNA benefits if the cases are not grandfathered because then, the adoptions done by the lawyers would be null and the CNA would get to do the adoptions of those children, charge for them and keep the income, because it would belong to the CNA, and as an autonomous entity, they are not accountable.

We are not facing a problem of bureaucratic ineptitude, but one of abuse of power to deprive the waiting families, of the children they already love as their own, the waiting children, of the love of those families and the lawyers and care providers, of the fruits of their labor.

The CNA has nothing to do with the investigation of stolen children, and anyway, that is what there are two DNA tests for, to eliminate any shadow of doubt about the origin of the children and the willigness of their mothers to their adoption.

As you mention the groups who help women who have lost their children, let me point out that the only group, besides Casa Alianza, who has taken the attack to adoptions as the way to recover any missing children, is Fundacion Sobrevivientes. A check at the Registry of authorized entities, proved that it does not even exist as an organized institution, it is just this woman named Norma Cruz who did not get too much attention when her battle cry was the killing of women, because for each woman killed there are at least ten men killed, so she switched to linking adoptions and stolen babies as her battle cry. Stolen babies are a tragedy, but when they are used to promote the image of power hungry people and organizations, one has to be very careful. It does not help to cover all the children who are being adopted with the stigma of illegallity.

It is Saturday midday now and thus far, only ten people have been able to submit their registration forms at the CNA. We are on the verge of a catastrophe, that does not take a computer, software and a proper way to do it to be fized, but the pressure of all the families, their agencies and both goverments, to allow the pending cases to be registered before the time expires and the CNA starts making plans for those children.

Susana Luarca, ADA

Thank you for posting Kevin. I agree. CQ PAP here.

I just hope that the people that need to be reading this advice from you are in fact reading it, because a little common sense injection is needed, like you suggest. None of us are new to previos although we don't much like them but they are the ideal solution at the moment. You get a number and a previo at the same time with incomplete paperwork but at least you are in. I know its a big mess at the moment but I do feel that overall most people want these cases to proceed and I am trying to remember that, in my efforts not to panic. May they proceed for the next 4 days in CNA with God and Lightening speed. We have kids to get home. B.

The three comments immediately above were posted earlier today. Somehow this thread went onto the site twice so I copied the three comments that were on the other one and added them here.

Kevin
Guatadopt.com

With attnys turning in multiple cases (someone above mentioned 93), and with CNA only open and working for a few days to process thousands, we PAP's are worried sick that one of us may be overlooked by accident!

I am pleading, please, to all of the lawyers, please, to notify the agencies after your cases are registered, with all of the PAP's family names and corresponding registration numbers that are registered, (as opposed to just saying to the agency that all cases are registered).

Then maybe we will be able to get some sleep.

I am also pleading with the two governments. Please keep your word and complete all of the cases started before December 31, 2007.
-Please find ways to complete cases rather than finding ways to not complete them.
-Please allow cases back into PGN,
-please ask pgn to separate and process differently those cases resubmitted after a previo from those cases being submitted for the first time
-please ask Mr Barios to sign off in a timely manner,
-please ask the civil registries to issue birth certificates to grandfathered cases in a timely manner,
-please ask family court judges and appeals court judges to rule on and release cases in a timely manner.
-please ask the USCIS offices to get paperwork routed and cables routed to USE in a timely manner

To both governments;
Please get all of the in-process cases out of your offices and get all of those children home with their families. Then, when all of the in-process cases are completed, all of the energies of all involved in both governments can go into creating the new and improved adoption processes. Please stop trying to do both of these jobs at once, which can only benefit some adults, and definitely not benefit the children in process or future children needing forever families either.
anonymous

This is outrageous! I'm confused as to what to believe....Airstar98 v. ADA article and Susan L. from the ADA. Did "many" cases been given a registration number today? Or, are the CNA members taking their time as a way to manipulate and cause cases to fail in being registered by February 12th so that the Guatemalan Gov't (CNA) can make money by making us go through the processes again under to the Ortega Bill?

BTW, I wouldn't count on the US DOS doing anything to help us. Remember, initially they didn't want to grandfather 'in-process' cases.

Bethie

Thank You Everyone for all your kind post :D I'm just so excited that we are getting registrations coming out, but also very excited and grateful to GOD that the CA is showing us what awesome things to expect from them in the future.

Now, obviously we don't expect them to stay until midnight all the time, once we are registered, lol, but they have shown a fighting heart to get these babies registered and that does say a lot. You know in all my stress yesterday, I forgot to post my impressions of the New CA members that I did get to see.

I was very impressed, not only by their dedication to the work of adoptions, but there was one lady that impressed me the most, and I truly wish I had her name. She came out after working for many hours, to try and calm the attys down.

I don't speak Spanish, so I could not understand any thing she said, but a person's body language says a whole lot and this lady was super down to earth, not high and mighty with a chip on her shoulder, but truly a women of the people.

She took a ton of questions and at the beginning attys were upset and raising their hand or interrupting each other to get a question in, but this lady, with her calm spirit and tone of voice, sincere interest in each and every question, true desire to provide answers, secured the attys that they will not leave until all the numbers were called.

She gained rapport quickly and calmed the situation down. Her warm heart and smile was contagious and in the end the attys were laughing with her over something someone must have said.

You could tell, she wasn't there to put on a show.

I truly feel she was genuine.

I have to admit that is was very nice to see a lady, verses a man. I'm sure the men have a great love for their country and for helping children, but, to see a lady, with a very caring heart was a preview to, what I believe will be a change for the better for the children of guatemala who need homes.

I truly believe that if your atty wants the case registered, they will get up and go get a number, play by the rules and get you registered by the deadline.

I'm not sure if the CA is issuing previos that must be corrected before the case is registered. If this is happening, then there will be a difficulty on the attys part to get it fixed and resubmitted for registration.

I can say, from personal observation, that the CA is working very hard and above the call of duty with little breaks and eating when and what they can.

Cases are getting registered and many of them will be submitted back into PGN this coming week, at least that's what I am told :D

I say, that just as us PAP's have a way of joining forces when the need comes!!!

I say that we join forces once again, when the new CA starts to need to find homes for the babies born today and those who were not placed while the fight for transparency was taking place, I say that we promote Guatemala adoption and try and make it a goal that the CA has no problem finding homes for the children who need them.

I am hoping to hear a huge amount of PAPs report getting registered as soon as their agencies start working again on Monday!!! :D

I want to reiterate Kevin's advice for everyone to move toward a quick resolution, in light of what Susana has said here. Simply to ad this to Susana’s suggestions: The Lawyers need to help, not hinder the process. They are the ones the pap's need to pressure to do the right thing. For instance, they appealed having to indicate basic data on the forms…like attending Physician. This delay causing appeal was for what good reason? The reason for the request to have the information on the form is because of suspicions of collusion on the part of attending physicians…Like the recently publicized Alvarado children case.

It is heart wrenching to Pap’s who have attached themselves to these precious and beautiful children. But please consider those deep feelings when you consider the 10 mothers who have come forward and reported their stolen child. All are agreed that some babies have been stolen, and that there are anomalies in some adoption cases. PAP's want to say: Catch the bad guys, but don't interfere with my adoption. The problem is that the bad guys try as hard as they can to look like your perfectly clean attorney.

Think of a party or a meeting with 150 attendees, where someone realizes a diamond ring has been stolen. What happens: close all the exits, and keep the 150 people ( 149 of whom are innocent) under surveillance, UNTIL THE DIAMOND RING IS FOUND. Asking the Guatemalan Authorities to do less with the 5 or 10 or however many stolen children involved is asking them to be derelict of duty.

As far as the number of children placed for adoption illicitly: Think: “tip of Iceberg” We see the 10 women who are risking a lot to come forward and challenge a very powerful network. How many more are afraid, or unable to do anything about the “sustraccion” of their child?

Challenge your paid attorneys to cooperate with the entity that is working (albeit lately after the legal wrangling) hard to receive documents and review them in a timely fashion. This is not the time for obfuscation or hiding details. There is a closing window for the honest attorneys to clearly differentiate themselves from the wolves in sheep’s clothing among them. Make sure yours is one of them.

Giving credit where due: Rabanales probably had the legal high ground in staying in his post on the CNA, and now has taken the moral high ground in resigning to allow the registration of the documents to take place. He didn’t have to do that, but did the right thing. Susana’s suggestion of dark motives rather than lack of competency is hard to defend against, given the way the Colom people have come into play…they have some moral ground to recover to show they aren’t what she suggests.

Kevin,

What is this I keep hearing reference to about 115 attorneys continuing to withhold files and/or information from the CNA?

Are the same attorneys who were originally involved in the amparo still refusing to submit all info required for registration? If so, wasn't the amparo denied? Wouldn't this mean they had to comply?

Would like to hear what you know about this.

Thanks for all you do!

Yesterday, people worked at the CNA until late in the evening, but the actual registration of the cases is going very slowly. Forms are being objected for lack of address of the hospital where the child was born, even if it was the San Juan de Dios or the Roosevelt hospitals, the two largest public hospitals in Guatemala City. Some of the CNA staff are nice and helpful, some are not. The people who submitted their registratin forms yesterday, early in the morning, got their regstration numbers until late in the evening, and many will have to return today to find out if their cases were registered of if they got a previo.

Before anyone defends Rabanales, please take the time do a little research about him and find out who he really is and how he has made a living out of maligning adoptions and how much he had to do with the last version of the Ortega Law that became this badly written and worse planned Adoptions Law. His desperate battle to remain in the position he fought so hard and for so many years to get, is the main cause that the registration process was delayed. He put his personal interest before the interest of the children and left the CNA only when the pressure of the media and the denial of the courts to side with him, showed him that he had lost the battle. He should have left long before then.
Susana Luarca, ADA

I'm with you Airstar98. I think the work of the CA is being understimated because of some attorney's that do not want to provide the information that the CA is requesting. Today in Prensa Libre there was an article that gives you light of what is happening really happening with the CA.

Of course the ADA is going to tell awful things abouth the CA, they are opposed to give out the information of were the babies are staying. What is wrong with providing this information?

You have to request your agencies nad attorneys to provide all the information needed to get your case register at the CA, no matter if they agree or not.

Any update available on how the registrations at the CA are going?

Thank you

Vince

I so agree with the previous post and if at all possible wish lawyers would please consider the following.

"I am pleading, please, to all of the lawyers, please, to notify the agencies after your cases are registered, with all of the PAP's family names and corresponding registration numbers that are registered, (as opposed to just saying to the agency that all cases are registered).

Then maybe we will be able to get some sleep."

*Bethie,
ADA's statement is dated the 9th, but the info is actually from the 8th.

Now, I know what I saw, lol!!!

I was there for 6 hrs straight with my little girl and I saw with my own eyes many numbers being called, up to number 47, when I left, but my atty said they continued into the night to call numbers.

I saw the huge piles of files, CA is working very hard, we must give them some credit, cause as said above they are working above and beyond.

They could have started earlier but those CA members that got fired, challenged their firing in the courts and that stole precious days, that were desperately needed to register in process cases, as is required by the law to be grandfathered in.

The CA, is working the weekend and also working two business days in one day, by staying late into the night.

So, if they keep up the pace, then on Friday, Feb 8th, when, they released the notice in the paper, they would of only had 3 business days to get the job done, but, so far they've already worked 3 business, days, cause they worked on Friday (1 day) and on Saturday (equivalent of 2 days work, early morning to late in the night) and they are working today, Sunday.

So, it's very possible that the CA by staying open on the weekend and working super late Sat and maybe Sun too, is actually working 5 days of additional work into this weekend.

Then we have Monday and Tuesday (2 days) and if they continue to stay open extended hours, then that can also give us (4 days of work time).

Sorry, it's confusing, but my point is that the New CA is trying desperately to do the job, with little time to do it in.

The old CA that got fired and finally resigned, did not leave much time for the NEW CA to accept files.

The good news is that the CA is giving registration numbers!!!

Sounds like some big news! Our attorney had #14 I heard, but I know there is an error on our reg. paperwork stating we began 3-07 when really we began 3-06. I hope fixing this does not cause us to miss the deadline b/c we have been in process for 2 full years already! To not be "grandfathered" after all the time we've waited for this little girl would be completely unjust.

Thank you guatadopt for having up-to-date information which gives me a way to stay connected to this process.

To all the attorneys and CA people who are working hard and overtime to get registrations done, thank you so much!! Please continue so all the babies can get to their permanent homes soon!!

Reba
Waiting with hope and faith for Luciana

Are word on how many cases have been registered today??? Has there been any discussion of a deadline extension???

Nadorno,

Just as the birthmothers may be in danger if their families or neighbors find out that they relinquished their child, the foster families and the workers at the hogars are also sometimes in danger from neighbors, etc.
Possibly, the lawyers may have another reason for not wanting to reveal where the children are; to maintain safety for the dedicated foster parents and the Nineras at the hogars? Why do we always have to look for a sinister reason for lawyers' decisions about confidential information? I personally do not want my daughter's faoster family harrassed by police or neighbors for the great care that they are giving her!
But, I also want my daughter's case registered so that it can be grandfathered, as I have already waited for 14 months!
Who really knows what the right answer is? But I have to believe that many involved here, lawyers included are doing what they feel is for the best interest of all involved, especially the children. Rather than many involved are sinister. The bad apples should be thrown out, but lets keep the good apples!
anonymous

We emailed the DOS regarding our registration concerns. Here is the response that we received from Mr. Fuller:

Thank you for your e-mail. We have repeatedly asked the Government of
Guatemala to ensure a fair, transparent process for registering these cases. As of Friday, we were assured that the offices of the Central Authority were scheduled to be open all weekend in an effort to
register all of these cases. Unfortunately, as I understand it, the time limit for the registration process was written into the legislation. It may require new legislation for this period to be extended. We will continue to monitor the situation and advocate on behalf of the families who had adoptions already in process on December 31, 2007.

I am so appreciative of this large, supportive community. Our strength is definitely in our numbers and although I haven't written often, I'm grateful everyday for the Guatadopt community.

I think it's time we all made a pledge to each other. So I'll start. As of 2/12, some of us will be fortunate enough to have our cases registered. Possibly, some of us will not be so fortunate. Our strength lies in our numbers and I pledge that as long as even one family is still waiting to finish their 2007 in process case, I'll continue to write to and call my legislators and to encourage every one I know to do the same. Getting "most" cases through can not be considered a success!

So I hope we can remain a community and be there for any of us who still need help and advocacy after 2/12. This is the example Kevin has set for all of us.

Kevin, please let us know of any specifics we can respectfully request from our elected officials and government agencies as we move forward on this journey to bring our kids home!

Thanks as always, for all you do!

To all:

I wish I had the magic "what to do". First off, I don't know how the pace is moving at the CNA today. Is everything going to be okay for in-process cases? I'll say this, if I was presenting cases at the CNA I'd make sure everything was 100% filled out!

The DOS is VERY aware of what is going on. As I have said for quite a long time, while I don't give them credit for much and I do not agree with their involvement in this new law, I do believe that they are advocating for in-process cases.

With a deadline on Tuesday, it is not as if you can write letters, try to build a coalition of members of Congress, etc. There is not enough time for that. But you never know and you can always call your senators, reps, DOS, CCAI, etc. I wouldn't bother with anything but phone calls. Our old "Campaign Clearinghouse" thread found here: http://www.guatadopt.com/archives/000715.html has lots of contact info throughout the comments.

What are you asking for? Merely to "work IMMEDIATELY with the appropriate Guatemalan authorities to ensure all cases started before 12/31/2007 are given the chance to be registered with the CNA as defined by the law."

Kevin
Guatadopt.com

I would refrain from applauding the new CNA until they stamp and register the final case. It is easy for someone to praise them when they have their registration number. Our attorney had a mid 20s number yesterday and they did not get to him. So the info that they were at least in the 40s is not accurate.

Anonymous:

I understand what you are feeling and I agree with what you are saying. I didn't post my comment to offend anyone. I just think that our attorneys must do everithing in their power to get us registered. The information that the CA is requesting is very similar as the one requested in the Aviso. I don't think that confidential information is going to be posted anywhere.

Although CA personnel are going to visit them as the Social Worker from the court did.

Why wouldn't every required field be filled out on the form? As PAP's, we have had to adhere to strict rules regarding paperwork from the very beginning. I have to question Susana's outrage at having to provide a hospital address for well known hospitals. It is required and therefore must be provided. As an attorney, making sure documents meet the legal standard is part of your job. I am glad to hear that the CNA is making sure that things are done properly. I for one, do not want our CNA registration to come into question later due to a missing field. It sounds like the CNA are doing everything they can to get the cases registered properly and as quickly as they can. Let's cooperate and give them the chance to do their job.

What may have happened is that those attys who thought they would win the amparo, did not have the 4 page form filled out in full.

They lost the amparo and found out the same day that registrations were taking place and they were required to have the whole 4 pages filled out.

With who knows how many cases, it was probably easier and less time consuming to only put the hospital name and not the address of the location where the baby was actually born.

*Bob, I'm really sorry to tell you this, but I have no clue why your atty didn't get his forms in with a 20 something number, maybe his number was for the next day, or maybe he wasn't there when it was called.

I was there the whole day, yesterday, and I got a number for myself and my number was 48. I didn't know it was only good for today, so I waited all day there yesterday, I heard them call the numbers and then when they called number 47, I got my paper ready to turn it in cause I was number 48.

But, then someone told me that my number was only good for today!!!

But, my atty had number 19 and her files took all day for one them to process. Now, the previous day she had number 68 and waited but they only got to a few numbers that day, so, I don't know exactly how the numbers worked.

Since they process my file that she submitted, I didn't need my number anymore and I gave it to her and then I left.

I know they got to at least 47, cause, there is no way to miss it.

Everyone is waiting there outside all day, sitting near the door in the shade.

Now as soon as they call a number, it was a kind of a joke that many people would yell out the number, so that the person who actually had the number would not get missed.

I don't remember the first number I heard but about 2:00, I remember thinking OMG, they only will be open till 4:00 and I still have have 20 numbers ahead of me.

So, when I thought that, they had to of been on number 28. I just kept staying and when they finally got to 40, it was past closing time.

Then my atty showed up and she told me to keep waiting cause I had a number and a copy of my baby's 4 page form.

But, then she looked at my number and showed me the date on it, lol.

It was only good for today, but I gave it to her and she gave it to someone, whom I sure made good use of it today.

Bob, I really hope your atty had better luck today getting his cases registered.

Cindy,

Boy, I guess you must be perfect and your paperwork submitted to the PGN must be perfect also. I am sure you will not recieve any KO's once you get in. Good for you.

As for the lawyers not wanting to submit all the info... they ARE doing so NOW that the aviso was defeated. I, for one was saddened that the aviso was defeated. Not because I am in favor of corruption or want to see stolen children adopted by Americans, but because I have also wittnessed corruption in the system. The corruption I have seen, however, came from authorities that wanted a little payola or wanted to harass good people caring for children. The CNA has a history of trying to take over cases (2003) and pick up the second half of payment. Can you blame the lawyers for not falling all over themselves to thank the wonderful people at the CNA for all their help and cooperation? These lawyers are working day and night to get OUR cases registered.

Lo

News flash:

Neighbors of foster care providers KNOW THAT THE WOMEN ARE CARING FOR ADOPTION CHILDREN.

The pretext for not providing information based on concern for the safety of the foster mom from her neighbors is false, and ridiculous, and insulting to Guatemalans who do not approve of the Lawyers in general, but would not harm the children or those who care for them.

Airstar98,

I realized that after I wrote my comments. Thanks though for confirming that cases for a few attorneys(only 5 according to Susana) were registered on Friday, and at least cases from 47 attorneys were "reviewed", but not necessarily registered on Saturday. Hopefully each of those attorneys had 50+ cases :-)

I'll be extremely and pleasantly surprised if all cases will be registered by the end of Tuesday, even if all fields on the registration forms are completed. Think about it, they need to register 3300+ cases - the 2500 that were on PGN desks and the 800 or so outstanding because they were kicked out of or haven't entered PGN.

If this were to happen, I think we can all congratulate the Guatemalan government for being persistent and following through with what they state, which is much better than what happens in our own country! We should all send gifts to the 3 CNA Directors for their hard efforts after each one has signed the constancias.

Any suggestions? I'm trying to laugh to fight my anger and nerves about being at risk for not being grandfathered-in....

The registration is to grandfather the adoptions started before December 31st. 2007, not to investigate the origin of the children or their current location. The CNA has no jurisdiction over adoptions in process and does not have the legal capacity nor the resources to investigate anything. That is not what the CNA is there for. The registration of the cases should have been done in a very simple and clear way. The way they are doing it now, gives us a glimpse of what lies ahead.

For those who want to learn about the amparo and the registration process there is a new psot at www.adaguatemala.org.

Susana Luarca, ADA

Ok Yall,
It is Monday. Now, there were some kind agencies who have already given word to their families that they have been registered!!!!

So, for those families who have no news, call your agency today!!!

Stay on them, bug the heck out of them, because your atty still has today and tomorrow to get you registered!

I am no lawyer and all I have is my own personal experience in my adoption process with my little girl, BUT, I highly doubt the congress will give an extension. An extension is a huge gamble and any atty taking the risk of not filling the case for registration is doing their client wrong and I'm sure there is a law they are breaking, like, being a swindler!!!

Never intending to complete your adoption, and this I know for a fact is ground to file a criminal charge against them.

I read some other post where the poster gave some charges that can be filed against agencies for not giving you information or for not working to complete your adoption.

So, if for any reason, you do not get registered, you will have legal grounds to file criminal charges against your atty who refused to submit your file to the CA and you can also file charges against your agency who did not give you information and updates, who may have also had no intention of completing your adoption, but did have the intention of taking your money.

DON'T LET YOUR AGENCIES UP TODAY!!! IF YOU HAVE NO WORD, I KNOW THIS IS CRAZY, BUT, YOU COULD FLY IN AND GO TO THE CA ON TUESDAY AND PLED WITH THEM AND GIVE THEM ALL THE INFO YOU CAN ON YOUR CASE AND TELL THEM THAT YOUR ATTY IS HORRIBLE, AND MAYBE THE CA CAN WORK WITH YOU TO GET YOU REGISTERED.

Do not let up on your agency today or atty if you have their info or facilitator if you have their info.

If you have not be given word today, then consider flying in and taking any info you have on your case and show up at the CA office on Tuesday and talk to them.

Feel free to PM me here at guatadopt, at airstar98, with any questions regarding the info in my post.

I was very blessed to get my registration number on Saturday, but I feel for every single family who is having problems getting the confirmation of registrations, the confirmation that the DOS urged families to get from their agencies.

Stay on them till you get word!!!

First let me start by saying I am just as sick, and scared as everyone else by what is going on. I am praying that by the end of today the right thing will have been done, and everyone will be registered.

But as far as the Amparo is concerned. I certainly understand why it was filed, and personally I am glad that it was, because the last thing that needed to happen was people who were appointed to the CNA by the Berger Administration taking our files from PGN for what ever purpose, for however long they felt like. I can not imagine what kind of delays or uncompleted adoptions that would have caused..

I trust that the New Administration is going to do the right thing for the children, but there were a lot of roadblocks already in place for them to over come, and trying to sort out a Berger appointed CNA that had all of our records held hostage was not one I wanted to endure..

I know this is hard, but we have to stand together. From the way it sounds everyone inclucing the New CNA is trying to do the right thing. Lets hope.

On a side note, I just don't understand the difficulty of registering. Seems simple to me. Everyone with a PGN number is registered, and given a number. Send a copy to their attorneys and the CNA. Simple computer stuff. Anyone who was not in PGN by Dec, 31st and doesnt have a PGN number then has to fill out the CNA form and register there.. But who am I.

Steve,
Your sarcasm with your "News Flash" is downright nasty. There are many things going on that I don't think anyone, even you, could possibly know to be an absolute truth or not. I believe it floats somewhere in the gray. When we got out of PGN we encountered delays at the embassy. I had to fly down on a days notice because things were heating up and with the paperwork now in our name, there was concern for the safety of the foster family and our child. There are many cases of foster families being harassed. So news flash, the comment made was probably not made to be insult to Guatemalans but rather trying to make sense of a very layered and confusing situation. There are a lot of emotional and worried PAPs here so why don't you show a little compassion and back off with the sharp tone. I am sure you have some valid opinions but they are impossible to read when you go on the attack.

"Trust the lawyers!!!" ADA 2/11/08 post

OMG!!!

How does ADA know that every single lawyer has high ethics and is not looking out for their own interest!!!

They want blind trust and no accountability or transparency!

Well, it's the accountability and transparency that will protect the children and fight corruption!!!

I received an e-mail from my facilitator that said we were registered and were being submitted to PGN today?

Is this true? Are people being submitted to PGN again?

I have no idea what to believe.

Can someone PLEASE tell me if we are supposed to register if we are out of PGN recently, as in just the past couple of weeks? I have no idea if our attorney registered us or not and have NO IDEA if we are even supposed to. It's all so confusing to me. I don't want to bug our attorney if it's not necessary, but don't want to neglect pushing for registration if we are supposed to. Please advise!!

Thanks so much.

It is common sense, airstar98. The lawyer who does not file the registration forms for his adoptions, has nothing to gain and everything to loose.

Susana Luarca, ADA

Marie-

My agency told me that we have to be registered even if we got out of PGN recently. I am in the same boat you are.

Jandc;

You are right. I get sarcastic when I get frustrated when phantam issues are raised to suggest honorable reasons for dishonorable actions. Then it boils over when these shady people are believed by gullible people as they cast aspersions on the general population of a very charming country. I am sorry for the sarcasm. It is pure human weakness on my part.

But the issue is real, and I would appreciate a forthright response to my forthright commments here:

I am aware first hand of quite a number of cases where the data that has been required on the forms at the CNA Have been found to be either dubious, or outright lies in in process adoption cases here in Guatemala. Quite a number is not 500, but a large enough percent of the sample to warrant concern on the part of the "gatekeepers". That makes me mad to hear the Lawyers cite concern for the foster mother, when it is more likely that they are concerned about the irregularities they had allowed, back when they thought these cases were only going to be looked at by "greased skids". A public knowledge example is a certain Doctor whose involvement in a number of adoption cases is suspicious, and has has fled the country in light of accusations of misconduct in those cases. That, in my mind, makes it imperative for every honest Lawyer to be willing to give that data.

I can understand a birth mom's reticence to be publicised, but I am not aware of a single incident, either from the news, or from experience, where the Foster Parent has been threatened by their neighbors, and if you have heard about "many" I would appreciate your help in getting to the bottom of them. People are certainly threatened here all the time, but not for caring for children, however, possibly in abuses in that care.

Timing Steve Timing. Your concerns are valid - but many of us are beyond sad and worried right now. We just don't need to hear you right now - please.

Steve:
I always appreciate your candid analysis and your knowledge of Guatemala. I agree that there is a lot of misinformation out there and given the irregularities, the motives are questionable if not sinister. Accountability is key. If the ADA and others had been dedicated to accountability and transparency long ago, this deadline could have played out much differently. The ADA waged war against the Hague and won in the short term--put off implementation until now, 4+ years later (while their members enriched themselves by the millions). Now that everyone's backs are against the wall, it looks like there was a tacit agreement amongst the 'adoption professionals' that there would be a group of PAPs that would fight to the end with an unknown percentage that would be in desperate straits. This strategy was motivated by far more than the marketed "save the orphans" message. The sad fact is that intercountry adoption has got to be cleaned up and everyone is now living through the reality set forth when the Hague was beaten the first go-around. If Guate had implemented several years ago, this line in the sand that the US has drawn by our own ratification would be very different. Guate could have had 4 years of implementation work completed by now and avoided this mess! That short-term win has now resulted in this mess rather than a concerted effort to clean up a system that had OBVIOUS problems. And before Kevin and others remind me--yes, I have looked at the Families without Borders report, etc. Many valid points, but this deadline was inevitable...

does anyone know if we need to be registered if our case exited PGN Prior to Dec 31st? we are just waiting for civil registry to issue a BC....very confused & frustrated!!

Steve,
Under the new system all your prayers will be answered. Adoptions in Guatemala will all be transparent and thoroughly investigated. All the children will get excellent care in private orphanages sponsored by the charity of various churches in the USA while their cases are reviewed by the CA. In the event that their biological families can not be convinced to raise them, and appropriate homes in Guatemala are not found then suitable international placement will be investigated.
As for the children in process under the old notarial system I suggest you back off. Your innuendo and sarcasm are heart wrenching for the waiting PAPs and their families. The PAPs are pressuring to give these children a permanent, loving home in the shortest time possible. The children do not deserve to be held hostage to bureaucracy, self righteousness, politics or social prejudice.

Karen,

Your faith in the accountability of government (including our own) and its ability to handle the needs of flesh and blood children is naive at best. You can look around the world -- name me an efficient (for the sake of children, not PAPs) system. China and S. Korea are two that come to mind, but they also have far more developed economies and a history/tradition of solid bureaucracy that goes back thousands of years.

My agency says that our case is registered and the atty has a number but the agency does not have it yet. My agency said "the case was registered ealy and re-registered once the new CIA was established". From the other posts it sounds like the agency should be providing me with the number. Which makes me very concerned that our case might not actually be registered. Should I be worried?

Has anyone heard any rumors of the deadline for registration being extended a few days?

Lee:
You may not believe in community and democracy as having the capacity to care for its own and most vulnerable. However, I am unwilling to give up on Guatemala because intercountry adoption will NEVER take care of the needs of the millions of Guatemalans living in severe poverty and desperation. You may find it acceptable to spend outrageous amounts of money to bring one child to the US as a child welfare strategy. However, the corruption indicates that at this point it is actually dangerous--literally dangerous for some birth mothers who resist/change their minds/or worse. You may point out that Guatemala is far from a perfect democracy and, we all know that there is no true model of democracy (let alone our own). However, liberty is more than a goal, it is possible and then free will in relinquishment is also possible. Democracy is a messy business and we are all on a continuum of social development in terms of the exercise of democracy. I'm not willing to give up on Guate and I have dedicated much time and energy in believing in Guate. I remind you that both democracies have spoken on this issue. The US finally has implemented the Hague and Guatemala has dragged its feet--not because the "people" of Guatemala didn't agree but because the powerful attorneys stalled the Hague out in the Supreme Court. Yes, that was their right under the democracy, but its all done and Guate is now a truly confirmed party to the Hague Convention. No matter how much pressure the US may or may not have exerted on the vote for the Ortega Law, at the end of the day it was passed in a democratic process. The political will is obviously there in previous and present Presidential administration. It is now time to get out of the way, stop being negative about another government's capacity to carry out its obligations, and try to figure out how we can REALLY help above and beyond continuing to do business as usual when there is evidence of corruption. Call me hopelessly naive (as you did in the above post), but I'll take that label any day over the alternative of turning a blind eye to corruption. (By the way,the usage of the word naive as per the dictionary includes LACK OF EXPERIENCE OR INFORMATION. I assure you that I have both experience in Guatemala and information about this problem--information that can't even begin to be shared on this forum.)

Hey Karenms1
One thing that I gotten out of your postings, is that I need to prepare my children (the one that is home and the one that I am waitng for )all the information that I have on their adoptions, so in case they run into well meaning people like you who tell them, that their adoption is corrupt. My goal is to arm my children with as much information, so they can be proud of who they are. As parents, we have to prepare our children from drugs and gangs and everything else, now we have to prepare to them to defend how their family was formed I hope Karen, that when you run into these children, that you don't take upon yourself to tell them that their adoption is corrupt?
Please assure me that, that you would never comfront, poor innocent children?

Shawn

Shawn:
You have no worries about me. There are far greater concerns for you ahead. I have no interest in beating this drum on an interpersonal level. It has no point. However, ethical adoptions are something I feel very passionately about. I won't apologize to you or anyone about that NOR will I go out of my way to make an adoptee feel bad about this mess. What's the point? The point is that the attorneys, agencies, and everyone else complicit in this problem need to take some responsibility and put a stop to corruption.

This is a bit late, and may not be read by those who need to, but the reason people like Karen and I write on a site populated by people interested in adoptions is that we believe that getting the truth to the adopting public will benefit the children. I suppose we are idealistic in thinking so. The English lesson is informative. I have often stated that those who run the shoddier agencies bank on the naivete of the adopting parents. The more PAPs can engage in sites like this, the better prepared they are to protect their interests: and I am putting the precious children way ahead of any monetary interests, as I am sure they are.

Shawn: you are shooting the messenger. Karen did not corrupt the system here in Guatemala and is not responsible for the questions that child will face.

Those who are complicit in the deception of PAPs and corrupting the system need to be weeded out and those who say they are offering honest adoptions need to be held accountable by the only group who can: Those who pay the money.

Parenting never was for the faint of heart. I guess adoptive parenting is no different!