Was this Another bullet dodged or maybe the beginning of what’s possible? Who knows but I am going to thank the folks at the CNA for getting it done. Some may call it a miracle. I call it determination, dedication, and a realization of what was at stake. What can’t be denied, whatever else one might think, is that the CNA went the extra mile to get this done.

THANK YOU!

And PAPs, for this once, let’s all post our thanks to the individuals that sacrificed long hours for the sake of the kids!

At this point, I hope PGN decides to give the files a thorough, but reasonable, look and that we see these kids come home without further delay.

Moreso, as ADA’s post points out so well, I hope that now the CNA can work to get a system up and running for the children yet to born or who have just been born. I call upon UNICEF to IMMEDIATELY assist in arranging care facilities for children being born whose mothers can’t provide their care. As I’ve pointed out to UNICEF, they didn’t give this law 9 months to be implemented. So if what they’ve been saying is wrong with adoptions actually was, then they know about the need of children soon to be born.

I am sure there are some people whose cases did not get registered. Those waiting for abandonment decrees have an uncertain future. My heart goes to you all and while overall there is reason for a dose of sanity and jubilation, you and your children are not forgotten.

But let’s end on a happy note. Where just a week ago we thought it was impossible that CNA could get this done, it looks like they did. For that, “YIPPPPEEEEE!”

Kevin
Guatadopt.com

Kevin,
I love reading your site everyday 24-7 ,, you have done such a wonderful job with keeping us all informed on whats been happening.
A huge thanks for all the attornies, faciliators and agencies for getting us all through and registered. I know they have been working hard, day and night. Our children oneday will know about all the love that went into bringing them to their forever families!!
We hope for a speedy enter to pgn and to bring our 7 month old, marcos, home where he belongs!

Much thanks again to you kevin for your dedication!

WOOHOO!!!! THANK YOU!!! Thank you to all of the CA members and volunteers for working so hard to get our cases registered. For being committed to the children of Guatemala waiting for their forever families. THANK YOU.

All that I can say is "THANK YOU" - to the CNA, to the attorneys, and to the agencies who made, what seemed to be the impossible, possible. Thank you for putting the children first.

thanks Kevin. I for one, am very greatful for the work the CNA has done over the past several days to get everyone registered. I pray that each and every case that started prior to Jan 1 has a registration number and that EVERYONE's child is on the road to coming home to their forever families and hopefully in the fast lane!
Karen

Thank you to the attorneys and to the CNA for ALL of the hard work to get these cases registered! Thanks to Guatadopt for keeping us all informed!

Thank you, thank you, thank you to the CNA officials and volunteers and to all of the attorneys (and their staff) who were willing to put so much effort into getting these cases registered by the deadline! What a wonderful reflection of your dedication to the best interest of the children involved!!!

Thanks to CNA, Guat authorities & to the volunteers. Definitely proved that there are people in Guatemala who care very much what happens to their children. Their dedication & commitment to honoring the letter of the law & getting these cases registered in time is very impressive & worthy of many many thanks from all PAP's and concerned observers

Sri

Thank you to the attorneys and to the CNA for ALL of the hard work to get these cases registered! Thanks to Guatadopt for keeping us all informed!

I just want to say a big THANK YOU to the new members of the CNA, who CLEARLY went above and beyond to make these registrations happen; also to the attorneys and facilitators who worked round the clock to comply with the new rules, and fast approaching deadline. To get 3000+ registrations done in 5 days was quite a feat.

I would only add that I hope that since it seems clear that these officials truly do want to help us to bring these children home to their forever families, that they ensure that each and every child's adoption that was started in 2007 is allowed to continue. My thoughts continue to be with those who have not heard confirmation of this.
Debbie

Wow!!! 3,000 cases!!!

That's 500 more than what was thought to be out there.

THE CA/CNA ACCOMPLISHED WHAT MANY SAID WAS AN IMPOSSIBLE TASK!!!

They went to work immediately after they were sworn in, to figure out a way to get everyone registered AND it doesn't matter how much criticism they received for the methods they choose to complete this task because in the end, THEY REGISTERED MORE CASES THAN THE INITIAL GOAL OF 2,500.

THEY REGISTERED 3,000!!!

No matter what critics may say, the facts remain, the CNA accomplished the registration of 3,000 cases!!!

The CNA should be commended because their strategy to accomplish this task was successful for they continued to modify and make changes necessary to see improvement.

*This is huge yall!!! This shows that they take a task, do what they think will work, and then they continue to modify and improve!!!

They first thought they themselves, with a little help could get the registrations done by working on the weekend, but then after the first day, Friday, they realized they needed help then they got more help, the following day Sat. They hugely surpassed the results they had on Fri.

They continued to improve their strategy to get everyone registered and in the end they registered more cases, then anyone thought they could.

THANK YOU TO ALL THE VOLUNTEERS THAT DEDICATED THEIR TIME TO HELP THE CHILDREN BY HELPING TO REGISTER THE CASES!!! YALL ARE TRULY AWESOME!!! :D

According to the article, they questioned the huge amount of files that came from a single atty.

Well, I'm a US citizen and I will be honest, when I saw the 1/2 foot thick files, being submitted to the CA, I was thinking OMG, that's a lot of money that is being made, sorry, but after facing a corrupt facilitator with a sole purpose of never completing our adoption and only extorting money and threatening to take my baby girl away and sell her!!! I had to file criminal charges against him and then start the adoption all over with a new atty.

I have to admit that I was too, concerned with the huge amount of files that were being turned in from one person.

***HOWEVER, THERE ARE SOME ATTYS WHO HAVE BEEN HELPING CHILDREN FOR MANY YEARS AND ARE NOT CORRUPT, THEY JUST HAVE A GOOD REPUTATION FOR HELPING CHILDREN AND BIRTH PARENTS CHOOSE TO PLACE THEIR CHILD FOR ADOPTION THROUGH THEM OR THEIR CHILD'S HOME***

So, a lot of cases, cannot and shouldn't be generalized to equal corruption. Those who are corrupt are not just the atty, they are also the facilitators.

The facilitator is usually the one whom the PAP sends the $20,000 plus payment to.

The facilitator then turns around and pays the atty for their services.

So, actually, the facilitator, could be using several different attys.

Also, those who are corrupt, hide behind others. It's very rare to see their name on a document, they usually put someone else's name or the name of the agency or someone who works for the agency.

THE CNA DID AN EXCELLENT JOB AND THEY DESERVE A NICE BREAK TO GET SOME SLEEP AND REST!!!

AS AN AMERICAN WHO TRULY LOVES THE COUNTRY OF GUATEMALA AND IS SO GRATEFUL TO GOD TO BE BLESSED TO BE ADOPTING A LITTLE GIRL FROM GUATEMALA, I WANT TO THANK EVERYONE WHO WORKED NIGHT AND DAY TO GET THE JOB DONE!!!

I HOPE THAT AS SOON AS YOU GET A BREAK AND REST A BIT, I HOPE THAT YOU ARE ABLE TO START WORKING ON FINDING HOMES FOR THE LITTLE ONES THAT HAVE NO HOMES!

AND, ALTHOUGH I UNDERSTAND THAT YOU MUST GIVE FIRST OPTION FOR A CHILD'S RELATIVES TO ADOPT THEM AND THEN SECOND OPTION TO THE FAMILIES OF GUATEMALA ...

PLEASE KNOW THAT WE AMERICAN'S LOVE THESE CHILDREN TOO AND I FOR ONE WOULD LOVE TO ADOPT A LITTLE BOY TO BE PART OF OUR FAMILY, SO, I ASK THAT WHEN YOU CONSIDER THE BEST INTEREST OF THE CHILD, PLEASE DO GIVE THE TIME NEEDED TO TRY AND FIND A HOME WITH RELATIVE AND THEN IN COUNTRY, BUT PLEASE DON'T GIVE SO MUCH TIME THAT THE CHILD HAS TO SPEND YEARS OF THEIR LIFE IN ORPHANAGES OR GOV HOMES, WHEN THEY COULD BE IN THEIR OWN ROOM, AND PART OF AN INTERNATIONAL FAMILY WHO WILL LOVE THEM AS THEIR OWN AND WILL SHOWER THEM WITH AFFECTION!!!

THANK YOU CNA AND GOD BLESS YOU!!!

IF ANYONE HAS A PROB WITH THIS POST BEING MOSTLY IN CAPS!!! LOL!!!

I'M SCREAMING FOR JOY!!!

THIS IS A TIME TO REJOICE AND SEE THAT THE CHILDREN OF GUATEMALA WHO NEED HOMES, HAVE THE CNA NOW TO LOOK OUT FOR THEIR BEST INTEREST!!!

Best wishes to all. Sorry, to those, if any missed the deadline. It was reported that in the late evening, no one was submitting cases but only waiting for cases submitted earlier in the day.

So, in the late evening, attys had opportunity to submit, but either everyone had already submitted or your atty really did you wrong and I'm very sorry for your loss.

THANK YOU CNA for going the extra mile to get cases registered. I hope that this is a sign of good things to come!! We really appreciate the long hours you worked. My child will know this story and how their country came through for them when it was needed most. Thanks again!

Firt off, thank you to all of the attorneys and their staff that worked so tirelessly to get these cases filed. Bravo for a job well done. Also, thank you to those agencies (including ours) that kept their families informed of what was happening. You don't know how much that helped us get through this.

Next thank you CA and all volunteers who did what seemed like the impossible to do. Without your dedication and willingness to go the extra mile this situation would have turned out much differently. Because of your determination and hard work these children will have loving forever homes. We will not forget what you did for them.

Last and certainly not least a big THANK YOU to Kevin and the entire Guatadopt team. What would we have done without you guys? Please keep up the great work you are doing on behalf of all of us, our children, and all of the children in Guatemala. You guys are the best.

We are one of the families that are waiting a decision because of an abandonment completed after the new year. We are hoping they take it in consideration that our son has lived with us 3 years now, and that our former lawyer totally took us to the cleaners, resulting in the mess we are in now!
We were entered in PGN almost 2 years ago... don't know if that will help us or not. I am praying so!
We are thankful that CNA worked so hard to register all of our cases. Our oldest child was registered so we are just waiting for PA from the embassy.

Keep the faith!
GuateRose

Kevin,
Thank you for being there for us through this crisis. Like many PAPs we too spent hours researching the internet for information, updates or anything that would bring hope to our lives and I must say that you kept us informed but at the same time never help spread the negativity that was published by the media and other adoption sites, you really helped us keep our faith and positive thoughts. Great job, thank you. We also want to thank the attorneys for their tireless effort and hard work (I'm in Guatemala right now and know how hard they have worked to get this done) the same goes for CNA who impressed us all by making the children their first priority, that is what needed to be done. THANK YOU!!! We hope they keep up their hard work and continue to focus on what's best for the children of Guatemala. They have the power to make the difference and the lives and future of thousands of children depend on their work, ethics, and professionalism; this is a huge responsibility and we hope they get the support they need from UNICEF and those organizations who went above and beyond to establish this new system. They wanted it, now they have it, we hope they don't let the children of Guatemala down and give the assistance CNA will need to deal with the thousands of children that will be needing homes in the future. UNICEF, it is time to help the children, after all, helping children has always been your only motivation and priority. Isn't it? We really hope you do it.

Thank you to the lawyers and everyone involved at the CNA for putting our children first and registering all the cases. From a PAP who has done nothing but fret for weeks, I thank you from the bottom of my heart. I hope and pray that all the cases were registered and will be allowed to continue being processed!

To the CNA: THANK YOU for all of your hard work and dedication. All of the adoptive families will be eternally grateful for what you have done these last few days.

When I got the news last week about what needed to happen I decided to cancel our trip to meet our daughter. I thought there would be no way that all of these cases could be registered and didnt want to risk meeting our daughter and then never coming back to get her - she is almost 6 years old and we couldnt stand the thought of what that might do to her emotionally.

but you DID IT! I cant even believe it! Thank you so much ~ we leave tomorrow to meet our daughter.

Thank you Kevin,
Iam glad to hear that most cases have been registered.And I know most will be focused on these cases being finished.
BUT there are some of us that have been waiting for years to bring our children home. Ours is now an abandonement and I know there are others out there. Probably not that many but EVERYONE needs to fight for us/our chidren too. Not to be brushed under the carpet because we dont know what to do. We need to find away to show the new CA that these children belong with the families that have been waiting endlessly for these children we love for years!! We have documents that show that we made it into PGN in 2003. It shows proof. The CA needs to know that we can prove this not to mention our 6 visits and thousands of dollars and emotional turmoil that we have been through.Most of you in this time know what it is like to wait over a year or more to bring your children home. PLEASE dont forget the handful of families that have been waiting double and triple those time periods. Can you imagine what it has done to us individually, as families. We will never be the same...our lives have been forever changed for loving children that we may never bring home due to technicalities, slow attorneys, people that dont care, greed, fraud whatever.
PLEASE, PLEASE we deserve our children and they deserve the family that they have been told about all for most of their lives.
Yes, Iam begging for all of us to fight this too. I dont know how but if I have to I will stand before the CA and I hope as a group to tell them that these are OUR children and should have been grandfathered in as well.

A very UPSET mom
Audra
waiting for Bella since September 11, 2002

Kevin,

Kudos once again, and in a small way, very small, I made a $20 donation to www.guatadopt.com; not much but what better way to show our appreciation, come on folks, its just a "donate click away"...can you imagine going through all this without guatadopt? We've been through hell and back, lost two toddler girls, back to back both after 6 months and near the end and now my second dna on another child does not match. I would need a padded cell if it were not for guatadopt. The dna will go into extended testing and cost us another month or so, horrible yes, end of the world no. I know its the same child she has a birthmark on her face. Its just all so frustrating and again, thank you guatadopt, for caring, for updates, and mostly for the phone calls that kept me off the ledge.

Melissa

Hey folks,

Just a reminder that while we love to get pats on the back, please stop sending them all my way. Guatadopt is a team. While I may post most of the main topics, that is mostly because I enjoy writing. But this one actualy was done by Kelly. And while she tends to be more behind the scenes now than she was back when I was a loyal reader, she's still the heart, soul, and FOUNDER of Guatadopt. So please, don't give me all the credit. There's Kelly, Marie, Troy, Meredith and all the forum moderators that keep this puppy running.

Peace,

Kevin
Guatadopt.com

Thank you CNA for all you have done to get us registered. Please don't forget the families like Audra's. Help them bring their children home too.

Audra - if there is anything we can do as a community to help you - name it!

Audra-

Please let me know what can be done to help. I am so very sorry....

shannonoh @ yahoo.com

Kevin. Thank you for all the help and guidance given to us paps by the Guatadopt team. I know it will continue and will always be appreciated deeply.
The Guatemalan miracle is what I mistakenly considered the last weekend to be. I no longer believe it to be a miracle but instead an indication to the world of what Guatemala is capable of when left to its own devices. I should not be surprised. I see the same determination and grit in my own 2 1/2 year old daughter every day in many ways, and if this is what Guatemala can produce in 30 working days, then I truly look forward to its future. I suspect that my own country(not USA) would not rise so spectacularly to the challenge. I know lots of problems exist and all is not rosy but there is a will to do right by children and my wish now is that they proceed with putting in place a system to allow adoptions to continue. Thanks you to all involved. B.

Muchas Gracias a todos en la CNA por trabajar tan duro para ayudar los ninos, sus padres, sus padres futuros.

Thanks to CNA for working so hard to help the children, their parents and future parents.

And to UNICEF.... If Money is the root of all evil and Corruption.... Then you my friend are at its deepest core...

You claim that PAP money drives corruption? What about millions of dollars that you take in and give out to governments...

I agree that poverty levels need to be raised... to lower the number of children that at put up for adoption... BUT.... phase in implementation.... its about the kids.... don't just shut a program with your millions... with diregard to the children that are now in the system...

Do not throw out these baby's with your bath water!!!!

Can Bella and GuatRose contact me offline. We too are an abandonement case after our Birthmother went missing. We are a part of the CQ family and I would very much like to correspond with you both as you seem to have similar situations as mine. I have received clear cut answers from our attorney. Not sure how to do this, if it is ok to post my email in public. From what I understand we were registered with the CA but I am now wondering if it is even valid.
Mary Pat

THank you so much to everyone who has worked both in the US and Guatemala to make this happen. Our cases were 2 of the very last to get registered last night and that email was one of the best ever!
To those of you who did't get registered. We will ALL fight for you and your children. Try to no feel forgotten for you are not.
good luck to all

Audra: I will not forget about you, or any of the families that are still not able to move ahead with your adoptions. I will continue to pray that your child will be able to come home with you. While what we've seen over the last, few days was, indeed, a miracle, I agree that it will not be complete until all children are with their forever families. Hopefully, someone will be able to intervene on your behalf.

Thank you CNA, Volunteers, and attorneys for working together for the children.

I received confirmation that our case is registered, and now we are waiting on PGN to open their doors.

We all can only hope the future changes / laws benefit the children and mothers.

Thank you Kevin and everyone at Guatadopt, the attorneys, CNA officials, and volunteers who helped get these precious children registered. We are not in process now, but we were extremely blessed to adopt a wonderful Guatemalan child five years ago. We have prayed so much for all the in process families. We will continue to pray for all the in-process families, the ones who were able to get their children registered and those who were not able to get their kids registered. Please know that you are in our thoughts and prayers every day.

A GREAT BIG THANK YOU AND GOD BLESS each and every one of you who sacrificed over the weekend and over the past weeks for those of us "in process". I praise God for the CA workers and lawyers who have worked SO hard, long hours, lack of sleep, lack of food, and time with your families lost. I know that you will be blessed by your efforts! My family and I truly appriciate ALL that you have done!! God Bless!!!

Mary Pat wrote: "We too are an abandonement case after our Birthmother went missing. ...From what I understand we were registered with the CA but I am now wondering if it is even valid." Hmm, I am thinking the same thing, how can an adoption be registered when there is no current adoption process??

If your case is now in the Court of Minors as an abandonment proceeding, it is *not* in an adoption proceeding (the child is not even legally available for adoption). Mary Pat, I hope there is more to your story than you have shared here, and that your adoption has indeed been legitimately registered... Lee

I pray that Audra, Biff, Mary Pat and all the others whose previously-referred children are now in an abandonment process will be permitted by the CNA to adopt these children if and when they again become available for adoption! Lisa

Thank you Thank you to the CNA for working so hard to register so many cases. Thank you also for the diligence you are giving to your work. These beautiful waiting children deserve the very best of what we all have to offer. I do not know of any other government agency in any country that could form and complete a daunting task in so little time. Our thanks and appreciation are with you.

Thanks also to the amazing Guatadopt staff, or as I like to call you: "The Sanity Patrole"!

Has anyone heard if CNA paperwork will be needed to acquire PA approval? I was registered - but there's a huge mistake that probably won't matter on the Guat side - but sure will on the US side (wrong lawyer is named). Karma must be out to get me.

I too have an 171H "issue". I'm interested as to how far we will get in the process before it becomes a problem. I am praying that everything goes smoothly for all of us from now on...are children deserve it!

Thanks to Guatadopt for keeping us all up to speed.

Thanks to the CNA staff and volunteers who worked tirelessly over the last few days to get these cases registered. Please know that we love these children so much and are excited to bring them home, but we also treasure your country and pray for peace and prosperity.

UNICEF, NGOs, governmental officials: what is the plan now for new cases? Please create a functional system that does not harm the children waiting for permanent families.

Thanks again Guatadopt!
LeAnn

I know some in process abandonement cases were registered. I begged our attorney to do the same but he just kept saying since court of minors stopped the actual adoption and turned into an abandonement it was not possible to register. So ours was not. But I know ETHICA was pushing to have them registered anyway. I hope it is legit for those that were. It would help alot for those cases. I appreciate all those that want to help our cases. I know there are others working behind the scenes to work this out and I PRAY that something can be done. There should be no GOOD reason it cant be. There are parents awaiting these particular children why not allow them to parent these particular children. I understand if they find relatives that want them back BUT in our case the relatives know all about our daughter and no one ever came forward. And I would think there would be very few Guatemalans that want to adopt a 6 yr old. That of course is just MY opinion.
Anyway thanks for your well wishes.
Audra

THANK YOU CNA, VOLUNTEERS, AND GUATEMALA!

We visited the country for the first time last week and we love it. The citizens need to hold a fire to the new president and congress to amend this law and make it work FOR THE CHILDREN.

Agradecemos profundamente a todas las personas involucradas en la Autoridad Central que con su ardua labor hicieron posible el registro de todos los casos pendientes, mil gracias a todos los guatemaltecos que nos apoyaron para que todo llegara a un feliz termino, a nuestros licenciados y las agencias de adopciones que vivieron nuestras angustias. Asi tambien al nuevo Gobierno que conoce la necesidad del nino abandonado o en desgracia y que por fin tendran la familia que anhelan, unos padre que haran todo lo posible para que en el futuro se conviertan en buenos hijos, hombres, padres y grandes ciudadanos.

TRANSLATION.

Thank you very much to all the people of the CA, who worked so hard to get all the in process cases registered. Thank you so much to all the guatemalans that supported us. Thank you very much to all the lawyers and the adoption agencies. Also thank you very much to the new Government who knows the necessity of the orphans to have a loving and for ever family.

Thank you to the american authorities that I am sure after pushing for the Ortega Law have pushed hard to have all the in process cases grandfathered.

Vince

GUATADOPT THANK YOU. YOU ARE FOR US LIKE THE SIGHT OF THE LAND WAS FOR CRISTOFORO COLOMBO. WITHOUT YOU, I AM SURE, WE WOULD NOT BE HERE CELEBRATING THE REGISTRATION MIRACLE.

VINCE

TO ALL THE COUPLES THAT FOR A REASON OR ANOTHER DID NOT HAVE THEIR CASES REGISTERED, YOU ARE NOT FORGOTTEN. PLEASE LET US KNOW HOW WE CAN HELP YOU. WE WILL BE THERE JOINING YOUR STUGGLE TO HAVE YOUR CHILDREN WITH YOU.
GOD BLESS YOU ALL

VINCE

My wife is in Guatemala right now and she wanted me to share with all of you that the paperwork only had to be submitted to the CNA by the 12th, not approved by that day. So anyone who is still waiting, and was submitted by yesterday is in the clear.

Good luck to all

First, I'd like to thank Kevin and Kelly for this great website. It was EXTREMELY helpful to me in the past week to be able to vent as well as find out what was going on (the agency doesn't inform us).

Second, I want to thank the CNA for taking the past 5 days seriously and working to the bone! They obviously believe in child welfare and what is good for children. I hope their dedication continues forever! It would be wonderful if they could give a large amount of the 370,000(?) parentless/homeless kids a loving home!

And....
Third, I received an e-mail this morning (first thing) stating that all families with my agency were registered with the new CNA. Yay! They will "try" to get registration numbers for each of us. That doesn't bother me much at this time. I believe the attorneys are honest and trustworthy!

Thank you again Kevin, Kelly, and CNA!

Oops! I forgot to thank all the attorneys (especially mine), facilitators, volunteers, and whoever else stood in lines to help out during this pre-Exodus stage!

THANK YOU TO MY ATTY AND THE PEOLPLE WORKING WITH HER- THANKS TO MY AGENCY AND THE CNA AND OF COURSE THANK YOU GOD!!!!THANK YOU TO ALL AT GUATADOPT FOR ALL THE INFORMATION!!!

A HUGE thank you to the attorneys and caretakers who are caring for our children until we can... and for doing all they can to unite our families! We will be forever grateful to you. And thanks to the Guatadopt volunteers for keeping us abreast of the ever-changing situation and for keeping us united as a community. What a valuable role you play!
Donna

Congratulations to all!!!

The only thing that made me uncomfortable the words of Sonia of the CNA members:

"Sonia Hernandez de Larios, one of the members, expressed concern over attorneys who registered 50 to 200 cases...saying that she suspected that it was part of the corruption in the past."

Honestly, I didn't like it at all, It didn't make sense to utter words like these ones. OK 3000 cases have been registered, and we are one of them, but what after that, this is the most important questions that we all have to ask ourselves? Again, the above words are not very reassuring, I don't know why, I just don't like them and they seem quite inappropriate... Let us hope that after all that JOY something concrete will finally be achieved and will have our kids home soon. THIS IS THE REAL DEAL AND JOY... Now, how long it will take to achieve that goal, only God knows... Finally, I hope that all these 3000+ cases that have been registered, will be processed and they won't invent or create new reasons or problems to reject cases and accept others. I am very spetical that really all these 3000+ cases will be approved and all these precious kids will be really one day joined by us PAP. Hopefully, I am wrong and all will trun out OK.

Thank you all for your continuous support and understanding of how my husband and I feel.

Rory

My child was an abandonment and I received an email today that we are registered and have a pre-approval case number. DO NOT give up is all I can say to those still waiting. My notification came late today. Thank you all who helped so diligently.

Kevin, Kelly and staff

thanks for the great updates. and yes we got registered and back into PGN
SO relieved!! I now believe this new admin/ pres in Guatemala wants to get these in process cases done.Now how about a speedier PGN??
Chris

To all of the wonderful Guatadopt staff....God bless you and thank you for everything you do...all the time you spend...and your dedication! You are a godsend to so many!
Thank you to the CNA for working tirelessly to make this possible...
and Last but certainly not least...is to the families who are facing the unknown...you will not be forgotten or left to cope alone...we are all here to support you! We pray daily for all PAP's, children in the process and especially for all of those who's futures are uncertain at this time. Blessings to all...Lynn

Another abandonment case here. We also were not able to be registered but are hoping that the government of Guatemala has some compassion on our children. We have waited 33 months for them and we refuse to give up now.

We are another abandonment case that didn't get registered. We are now praying that the government of Guatemala has compassion on our children and still allows us to adopt them. We have waited 33 months for them and aren't about to give up now.

What I don't understand is alot of people have come out of PGN and recently received pink like myself lately. So, my question is how many more cases need to registered and go through PGN? And, also the fact that they are not taking anymore new applications. I think every step is dragged out for everyone by most parties involved for the old might dollar.

audra- I think I met your family on a visit trip once. if I am thinking of the right family....your dd had the most gorgeous curly hair. I always think about that beautiful girl and wondered if she was able to go home. :( my heart goes out to you, and others like you, waiting. I hope they are able to find an appropriate solution to this problem. I'm sorry you are still going through this. :(

So when is PGN going to start allowing registrations again? Any idea how long it will take in PGN with so many cases?

Don't get me wrong. I am very grateful to attorneys who waited in long lines to register our cases.

However, what is in place to prevent PGN from continuing to issue previos on our cases for month after month? How is the PGN process of today different from the PGN of old?

33 months of waiting for kids abandoned!!!

HEY UNICEF WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR? DON'T YOU CARE ABOUT THE CHILDREN; DON'T YOU WANT ALL THE CHILDREN HAVING A LOVING FAMILY?

NOTHING TO SAY ABOUT THE TIME NEEDED TO HAVE A DECLARATION OF ABANDONMENT?

AREN'T YOU READY TO LOBBY ( SORRY, I SHOULD SAY BRIBING ) THE LOCAL AUTHORITIES TO HURRY UP AND DECLARE THE CHILDREN ABANDONED AND THEREFORE ADOPTABLE?

BY THE WAY I AM SURE THAT EVERYBODY WOULD LIKE TO KNOW THE AMOUNT OF THE SALARIES OF THE PEOPLE THAT WORK FOR YOU. WHY DON' T YOU GUYS MAKE PUBBLIC YOUR PAY CHECKES, YOUR BONUSES, YOUR BENEFITS, WHICH HOTELS YOU STAY AT WHEN YOU TRAVEL; DO YOU TRAVEL ECONOMY CLASS OR FIRST CLASS?

AFTER YOUR ATTACKS ON THE LAWYERS FOR THE FEES THAT THEY CHARGE, I AM CONVINCED THAT YOU GUYS HATE PEOPLE WHO WORK FOR MONEY AND THAT YOURSELF WORK FOR FREE.

LET US KNOW , PLEASE, WHERE YOUR INCOME COMES FROM.

I AM SURE THAT IF YOU HAVE A PAY CHECK AND BONUSES AND FRINGE BENEFITS YOU DON'T HAVE ANY INTEREST OF HAVING A WORLD FREE OF KIDS IN NEED. INFACT IN THAT CASE YOU WOULD BE UNEMPLOYED AND I HONESTLY DON'T THINK YOU ARE THE KIND OF GUYS ABLE TO SWEAT TO MAKE A LIVING LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE.

VINCE

I was reading the " JCICS.GOV " web site and there it is said that the CA is developing a data base of all the registered cases that will be provided to PGN. PGN will begin processing cases upon their receipt of the CA database.

Vince

Strange that some abandonment cases were registered and others not. Does anyone know if the abandonment process had to be at a certain stage to be registered - or did some just slide through in the rush?

I'm pretty sure our abandonment hearing was registered at CNA but it really doesn't make much of a difference right now. Our lawyer cant continue with the final abandonment hearing because the judge will have to turn our case over to the CNA and we wont know if we will still be in contact or "matched" with this baby girl. So all we can do is sit and wait.

I think it is VERY unfair that the people who have been waiting for their children's abandonment process to be finished are not being allowed to be grandfathered in. We are not asking for anything special. Just let us continue like everyone else.

We have visited our baby girl 4 times and I REFUSE to give up on her. I am just so thankful I have the lawyer that I do!

MommytoEli,

Yes, that must have been us. Bella has very curly hair. It still is short but when it is wet it goes to her bum. When were you down to Guate? We were down 6 times. One thing I can say through this saga, I have met many, many families who are now my friends.There is always a silver lining shining through somewhere.
Thanks for letting me know,
warmest
Audra

is PGN open for newly registered cases to get back in?

For those of you with abandonment cases, my heart goes out to you. We were almost in your place, but I can not imagine what you are going through.

Susan, you asked why some abandonment cases are registered and some are not. If you look at the ADA post, you can see that if COA was issued before the end of 2007, those cases are okay and should be registered. If COA is issued in 2008, the CNA will take over the case and place the child.

If there is anything the adoption community can do to help those of you still in limbo, please let us know.

Lo

Susan, a case that is in the process of abandonment (i.e. the child does *not* and may never have a Certif of Abandonment) is not in the process of adoption (because quite simply the child is not legally available for adoption!). A child who already has a CofA may of course be in the process of adoption and thus was registered. I think these people whose abandonment cases were not registered are ones where the child is NO LONGER in the adoption process and where the child is *not legally* available for adoption at this point in time. How anyone still in the abandonment process can have been *legitimately* registered with the CNA escapes me - but of course I would love to hear how it was done if people accomplished this. It may be that these not-legally-available children were filed with the CNA in the hope that somehow this places a "hold" on this child in the eyes of the CNA (the new referring authority), in the event that these childen do someday receive their CofAs. Hoping someone whose pre-COfA case was registered can clarify... Lisa

Terri, you cannot be technically "grandfathered in" to the old adoption system because there was no legally adoptable child as of 12/30/07. *BUT* I hope & pray that someone, somehow, successfully prevails unpon CNA to give previously-referred PAPs "first dibs" on the children for whom they have waited so long, when and if the children *do* become legally available for adoption. What entity can we get to work on this aspect of the new system?? Lisa

Hi everyone,

Just got this article from a friend, from the U.S. Guatemalan Consulate.

Adoptions in Guatemala
UPDATE: Registration of Pending Adoption Cases
The Registration Period has Ended for Registering In-Process Cases with the National Adoption Council
February 13, 2008

On February 12, 2008, Guatemala’s National Council for Adoptions (CNA) announced that the registration period has ended for registering adoption cases "entered" in Guatemala before December 31, 2007. They informed us that during the registration period nearly 2,900 cases were registered.

The CNA also explained to us that “constancias” (individual certifications of registration) will not be issued to verify that a case was registered. Each “aviso” that was filed with the reconstituted CNA, however, received a number and a signature from a CNA official. It is this number and signature that will be used as proof that the case was registered. The CNA will provide a list of the registered adoption cases directly to the PGN once they have completed processing all the cases.

Prospective adoptive parents should consult with their legal representatives in Guatemala about issues concerning the status of their adoption cases. The Department of State will continue to monitor the situation and provide additional information as it becomes available.

Rory

I have been wanting to put this question out there for way too long!!! So here goes!!! Back in August 2007 when we were informed by Labcorp that the DNA came back a non match....I can't even put into words how we felt! It was hard to breath. We had visited 3 times and fell in love with "our" little guy! To this day my parents have his picture on the wall in the family room! Our nursery is still decorated and has many of his pictures! Occasionally I hold the blanket that I cannot even think of washing! (It will not long hold his smell.) He was taken out of foster care and placed in an orphanage. We soon decided to wait out his abandonment case.....come on....he was our son! We also accepted a new referral and decided to adopt them both! But.....now I sit and read about the corruption and the need for reform....and my mind...(not my heart, that will always be with our son!) wonders to a place that is very upsetting!!! If the woman who claimed to be his birth mother wasn't his birth mother....then where is she? Is she looking for him? Or does she wish she had the resources too? Did she have nothing to do with giving him up? Does she long for him....to hold him, kiss him, watch him grow....like we do?? I just paid for DNA for our second referral and let me tell you how hard this is!!!!! How does an abandoment case go??? Do they really look for someone or do they just pass time??? If anyone knows, please share!!! I long to have both my sons here with me and so does my family!!! But not at the cost of his bio-mom. Had no idea this would be my adoption story!

Audra-
I knew it....i totally remember her hair. We met you down by the pool in Aug/Sept of 2006. My mom was with us and you told us a little bit about your story. My mom still asks about your little girl (she assumes I Know everyone doing a Guat adoption...lol!). Well..consider me on your side. I hope to read someday that Bella has made it home. :)

Here's to a miracle :)

mommytoEli

Okay does anyone have any thoughts on this situation? If a child was declared abandoned before Dec 31st, 2007 - but the new BC and COA documents have yet to be issued - would CNA registeration be valid? I can't seem to get an "official" answer.

MommytoEli,

Yes, that was our last visit, in Sept. Tell your mom thanks for asking about us. Hopefully in the end our Bella will come home. I know others are ready to fight for these children as well. You have know idea what that means to us.
I HOPE one day I can write Bella is coming home...Ive dreamed about that day for so long.
warmest,
Audra

Ok, is anyone else nervous about CNA constructing a data base to give to PGN? My understanding is that they registered about 3000 cases, by hand, without technology. Now, they are going to enter all of these into a database? Sounds quite labor intensive and like a mistake just waiting to happen, (one paper stuck to another and not entered into the database, info incorrectly entered, etc.). Ok, maybe I am just worried because nothing in this process has gone the way it should have.

Second, to the many involved with abandonment cases, please keep us informed here, especially if there comes a time where a group effort is necessary--I am here for you, I won't forget you, and I believe that there are many here who feel the same way!

Vince--don't know you, but really like you!

UNICEF, now is the time to put your money where your mouth is! Start helping these birthmothers that continue to want to place their children and are currently being turned away!

UNICEF, start providing some substantial assistance to these struggling birthmothers, so perhaps they may be able to parent their children, in the way of food for the whole family, medical attention for the whole family, and something for the future like job training for the birthmother!

UNICEF, start putting money into good foster care and hogars for children of the birthmothers who chose to make an adoption plan for their children.

UNICEF, and US DOS, help the Guatemalan government get its new adoption processes up and running QUICKLY so that children and birthfamilies will not suffer! You were their to QUICKLY dismantle the old system, now be there to QUICKLY set up the new one! Your job is only half done!

US DOS, ask the Guatemalan officials to ask the Guatemalan Judges and PGN workers, and Civil registries to complete cases instead of stalling them for months and in most cases for YEARS!

US DOS, find a way to EFFICIENTLY get get updated fingerprints and I-171H's to the USE. WHY DOES IT TAKE A MONTH OR LONGER TO GET SENT TO GUATEMALA, AFTER THE PAP'S ALREADY HAVE THEIR NOTICE, OR WHY DO SO MANY OF THEM GET LOST, WHEN IT ONLY TAKES A FEW DAYS FOR DNA TO BE SENT FROM US TO USE?

Why isn't UNICEF and US DOS and USE working as hard as the Guatemalan attnys, the CNA, the volunteers, have worked this past week?

anonymous
pap waiting 15 months while my files just keep getting passed back and forth from one court to another and back to the same courts again for the past 10 months

Susan,
The registration with the CNA is valid, as long as the adoption process was started before December 31st. The process may have been started by either the adoptive parents or by the hogar director who represents the child. Article 308 of the Civil Code states that the hogar directors have the legal custody of the child since the child is admitted at the hogar and that kind of custody does not need to be sworn before a judge. Therefore,even if when the certificate of abandonment was not yet issued or the birth certificates showing the recording of the legal custody were issued after the end of the year, the director must obey the court's order to find the child a family and had not only the right, but the legal obligation to start an adoption process and record it before the end of the year.

Susana Luarca, ADA

Susan, Im pretty sure you would of had to get a new POA registered after the COA was issued. I think if you had that, you would be okay.

Susan,

Sorry, I can't answer your question, I just wanted to let you know that we are all pulling for you. Let us know what you find out.

Lo

Is there any news about the CA giving the PGN the database of the registered cases?

Thank you,

Vince

Biff,
First, I'm really sorry for your loss.

This is the situation, everyone knows that the abandonment process usually takes over a year to complete.

So, any facilitator/attorney who began the abandonment process after the warnings started being released were taking a chance that the process would not be completed before the country's new law came into effect.

For example, as everyone here knows the facilitator in my case was corrupt, we filed charges and the Public Ministry forced him to give me my dossier back and sign over the custody paperwork.

My little girl had been in my physical custody since 8 days old and she was now 7 months old. Two months previous to this point, we did DNA and we met the birth mother and the DNA was a match.

Now, the corrupt man retaliated against us by not giving us the birth mother's contact info. The info he gave the Public Ministry during the hearings was not accurate and we knew that she worked for his orphanage.

So, my male attorney tried for several months to get the contact info and the facilitator lied to him over and over!!!

One of his strategies of corruption was to lie with very convincing excuses to keep stalling for months on end. AND, since they are part of a Christian Adoption Organization in Guatemala, we kept trusting them over and over!!!

Long story short, we considered the abandonment route, but my atty said that we could not do that, because they take a long time and the new law could make it impossible for us to complete the adoption.

So, it took 3 private investigators, during an 8 month search, to finally locate the birth mother, who told us that she didn't even know that we were trying to find her, because the facilitator never told her!!!

Anyways, she went to family court and thank God, we were finally able to proceed with the adoption. AND, we are now able to be in communication with her.

So, my point, sorry for the long story, but, my point, is that any facilitators/attys who started an abandonment process, after the warnings started coming out, MAY have had a reason why they did not want to search for the birth mother.

Maybe the child was stolen, or the birth mother coerced and the atty, knew that if they found the birth mother, then she would want the baby back.

In addition, your DNA did not match, and this is very, very big and a huge red flag that their was indeed corruption involved.

I'm so surprised that the atty would even start an abandonment process with a child whose DNA was not a match.

I know the abandonment process in itself, is a way to search for the birth mom but in your case where a woman actually showed up and took the DNA test, wow, that looks like they got caught. It didn't work. And, now they were trying something else.

The US Embassy, has requested that PAPs notify them if the DNA is not a match.

It should be reported to authorities.

In your case, I really hope that your other child is also not involved with the same people, if they are corrupt.

For other PAPs who are still in the abandonment mess (abandonments still not completed in the courts = child is not legally available for adoption until the abandonment process is complete, or the parent shows up and chooses to relinquish parental rights), I am so sorry.

The CNA most likely will take over the cases.

Getting children through the abandonment process was a strategy used by corrupt facilitators and attys. It made it possible for them to steal a child or coerce a birth mom into giving the child up AND the abandonment met they did not have to take the DNA test. Also, it was a monthly allowance into their pocket, above the huge payment required in the beginning.

Abandonment met a long time = more foster care = more money from PAP = more money for them.

There were many reports of foster parents not getting the money to cover the child's basic needs of formula, diapers, wipes, etc.

Now, many facilitators/attys, charge between $300 - $700 US Dollars more per month, for children who are in foster care. This additional fee usually starts after 6 months of being in the adoption process.

So, corrupt facilitators/attys can lie and delay the time, to collect more money AND when they do an abandonment, they can avoid the DNA test and continue to pocket money every month until the adoption is completed.

One family reported that if they did not pay the $700 per month additional foster care fee, then the facilitator/atty threatened to take away the referral and they would not be able to be grandfathered in because they would have to start all over!!!

Now, some attys, do give the foster family the money, but there is no accountability or transparency of these funds and the family continues to have to pay the funds directly to the facilitator or atty.

I do hope that the CNA can find a way to keep the foster care system. The foster care system is a fantastic way to provide a child a home while the CNA is looking for an adoptive placement. If the CNA can work out a good system, they can use the adoption fees to not only provide the foster family a monthly allowance for the child's needs but the CNA could also provide a monthly payment for the foster families service.

This would help the Guatemalan community by providing a job to the foster family. It would mean that the foster mom could have a little help financially to stay home with her own kids and the children in foster care.

It could also help to keep the physical, emotional & behavioral problems low. Many studies have shown foster care to be much better for a child's best interest and well being when compared to an orphanage/large group homes.

Decreasing the potential for physical, emotional & behavioral problems to develop during a child's transition time between being relinquished/abandoned, to a temporary placement, to a permanent adoptive placement will overall be a better choice for the country of Guatemala and the other countries who allow their families to adopt from Guatemala.

It will create less problems for all, because the foster care system, if carefully monitored, could produce children who will be good citizens of the country they are raised in verses problem children who have difficulty overcoming their past lacks of food, love and nurturing as a result of living in a large orphanage, whom without intervention could grow up to be a not so good citizen involved in criminal/corrupt behavior or even end up in jail.

The foster care system, could help the children of Guatemala to have a greater chance for a happy future, whether in another country or the country of Guatemala.

Now, of course, the foster family would have to be CNA approved and also approved for the age & special needs of the child they will be caring for.

Also, for older children, children with special needs or children with behavioral problems, the foster family would need to have the necessary training and ability to care for children with the special needs.

Now, as far as abandonment cases go, I am not saying they all are corrupt, but the responsibility of these cases now lies in the hands of the CNA.

I would hope that the CNA would immediately check over these cases to see if any of the children could be ones that the birth parents reported were stolen.

Of course, they would require a DNA test of the birth parent and the child before the child was placed back into their custody.

After the CNA has made sure that none of the abandonment process children were among those stolen, then they will look to find the child an adoptive home.

Now, obviously in the best interest of a child, if they were stolen or their parents were coerced, then their best interest is to return home asap.

If the child was not stolen, but simply had to go through the abandonment process because they were truly abandoned then I would hope the CNA would see that the child's best interest is to make the transitions in their life as few as possible.

For example, some of these legitimate abandonment cases, involve the child being raised in the country of guatemala by the International families AND these families have been waiting a long time.

These babies/children have been part of a family, probably bilingual, like my little girl. To take a child from an established, loving family doesn't seem to be the best interest of the child. I really hope the CNA considers this when they work on the abandonment cases.

This can also go for PAPs who have had multiple visits with their children, during the abandonment process. Even babies begin bonding. Many of these PAPs have sent videos, pictures, toys, etc to the child over many months and these children look at the pictures daily. To take a child from a PAP who has already established a relationship with the child, also may not be in the best interest of the child and I really hope the CNA takes this into consideration too.

There are also abandonment cases where PAPs have been referred to older children. These children are old enough, to know that they are being adopted. Some of them have already created a bond with their new family and are only waiting for their abandonment process to be completed.

These children are the children who, cry when you leave from your visit and beg you not to go. They don't want to stay at the orphanage anymore and they keep your picture close to their hearts, as they wait for their family. I hope that the CNA takes the opportunity to talk to these children and ask them about their desire to be part of the family who told them that they are in the process of adopting them.

I hope the CNA also talks to the children who can speak and considers their hearts desires.

Again, so sorry for anyone stuck in the abandonment mess.

In conclusion, I really do feel that the number of abandonment cases will see a huge decrease with adoptions now going through the CNA and with the new President now working to help the community.

Families will know that they can get help from their government and that if they chose to not raise a child, they can safely contact the CNA to explore the possibility of placing the child for adoption.

Ok, one last point really, LOL, so sorry this is so long!!! :D

I would also hope that the CNA give birth parents the opportunity to have an open, semi-open, or closed adoption.

"Open Adoption" meaning that the birth family and the PAP has info on each other and they can communicate with each other. They can send pictures, videos, letters, and even have visits.

"Semi-Open Adoption" meaning that while both families don't want a full Open Adoption but do want to receive pictures now and then.

"Closed Adoption" meaning that both families do not want the other to know information about the other, but with the exception that when the child turns 18, they can locate/get the info needed to locate their birth family.

One of my biggest concerns about the kiddos adopted under the old system was that the majority of facilitators/attys refused to let the families have contact.

Now, I know a lot of families have hired a PI to find the birth family of their child, but many may never be able to get info about their child's birth parents.

This is what bothers me and I hope that the CNA handles it differently, so that we can be blessed to adopt a child from Guatemala and if the birth family also wants to have contact with the child in the future, even if it's just pictures, they can.

Some have said that the country of Guatemala is so corrupt, that the good people of guatemala will not see an end to the corruption in this generation.

The CNA can be a leader along with the new President, to prove this saying wrong and show that even in this generation, corruption can be controlled and decreased with accountability and transparency.

You know the more I think about it, I realize what an awesome opportunity the CNA has to better their country. AND, not only to better their country but to become an example of an excellent and ethically ran government organization, whose leadership in making changes to help their children and their citizens, can be a model for other countries, who want to get past corruption and pursue a better and brighter future.

Biff - we are exactly the same situation, but we got our COA before 12/31 so we are registered. I am so terribly scared that it was one of those "quickie" COAs. I know that she is our daughter and it was meant to be but it's sooo disturbing to hear what's been going on. It's to easy to say that it would never happen to me. If anyone knows of ANYWAY to confirm that a COA was totally legal and done by the books, please let us know.
I, like you, also accepted another referral of a baby right after our original DNA came back neg. It was huge. Huge. Lots of tears. My stomach turns at the thought of where my 2 girls are now and how long it will be until they are home with us and our other 3 children. We have to think positive that everything will be okay. We've made it this far.

Audra and others waiting out COAs, My thoughts are so with you all. I waited 4.5 years to bring Gladys home. I am so sorry that this new system compounds your stress, to a level, I am sure you had no idea existed. Please know that even though Gladys came home, my thoughts and prayers will be with you all. Please let the system work for these kids!!!
cindy

Thank you for all the info!!! It really does help! This website had really helped me so very much!!!! Waitingfor2.....I would love to chat with you....our situations seem so similar! Did you get DNA auth on second ref? I am traveling down soon!

Susana,

Iam confused about your statement of abandonements.
Our adoption started in 2002, it turned into an abandonement 2006.The COA has not been issued yet. Are you saying our case could have been registered??

We were told to try and get it registered before the 12th by another PAP. I begged our attorney to try and do this. He looked into it several times but felt it would do no good as the abandonement was not finished and the original adoption had been stopped because it turned into an abandonement.

Iam really upset at this point.Are you stating it should have been registered? And why did you not state this before the 12th. Please dont take this the wrong way if Iam misunderstanding? And if my attorney was told it could not be reigstered, is there anything that could be done to register these cases NOW? It certainly would not be fair if they were lead to believe differently.

Could you please clarify this?

Audra

Biff - 2nd ref was born end of summer and we got DNA in oct and went to visit both girls right away. Oh, how we cried! 1st ref is 2.5 years now and 2nd is 7 months. We are registered with CA but of course waiting to get into PGN. I'm not sure of protocal of how to give you my email address. Have a wonderful wonderful safe trip with lots of kisses.

Audra - I'm Susan (the one Susana responded to). In my situation the second hearing for the abandonment case occured in 2007 and the child was declared legally abandoned. But - the COA document itself along with the new birth certificate haven't been issued yet. So, while the abandonment was actually completed in 2007 - the paperwork resulting from the hearing has yet to be issued. I hope this helps a little and hopefully Susana will post a reply as well.

Is there any news about the CA giving the PGN the data base of the registered cases?

Thank you,

Vince

Airstar98,

The Adoptions Law states that ALL CASES must go through what you call "an abandonment process", that according to the Law of Integral Protection of the Childhood and Adolescence (also known as Law PINA) is a proccess of protection for children whose rights have been violated or are threatened in any possible way.

The purpose of those processes is to restore the children's rights that have been violated or to stop the threat to the child's rights. The most basic right of a child is the right to a family, and the fact that the DNA proves that the woman who went to the test is not the mother, does not mean that such child should be disqualified and forgotten. The District Attorney is notified of the negative DNA and the process of protection is started before the Courts of the Childhood and Adolescence in order to investigate the whereabouts of the biological mother and possible relatives of the child, whose picture is posted in the newspapers, asking the people who know something about that child to come forward. The process may take a couple of months or a couple of years, depending on the court and on the PGN, who has to do a homestudy, an investigation and send a lawyer to the hearings. If the PGN does its work in time and the lawyer goes to the hearings, the process can be done in two or three months. The problem is that some courts like the Second Court in Guatemala City, programs the hearings almost a year later and in some cases, waits until the birthmother is found, to schedule the first hearing, even though the law says that it should be within the next ten days.

It is true that there will be less processes for abandonment of children, but it will be because no new children are being admitted at he hogars now that the placement only can be done by the CNA and the hogars are not paid for the care of the children, so many of them will close down.

For the children without a family, foster care is a temporary solution. Adoption is the solution. The average child costs to the US taxpayers $18,000.00 a year in the US. There is no way the Guatemlan goverment will accept ever, to take on that kind of financial burden. It is better to pretend that those children do not exist and if they die, nobody cares.

If you have solid evidence of children being stolen and ruled abandoned later, please be so kind as to present a proper complaint before the District Attorney. It is very unfair to the lawyers and hogars who help those children to solve their legal situation in order to get a family, to be branded by you as "corrupt" and the children as "stolen". If the processes to restore the rights of the children were so corrupt, why do you have so much faith in the CNA that will use it WITH EVERY CHILD in order to rule the child adoptable?

Susana Luarca, ADA

Audra,

One thing is to have a sentence ruled by the judge stating that the child has to be placed for adoption and another is the certified copy of that sentence. What I said is that the adoption may be started with just the sentence, even if the certified copies have not been given to the hogar yet, because the hogar director is the legal representative of the child. In your case that could not have been done because there is not such ruling yet, but eventually it will be and if a Guatemalan family does not adopt that child, I am sure that the Central Authority will be pleased to place that child with you. Don't loose faith, please.

Susana Luarca

Quote by Susana, "It is very unfair to the lawyers and hogars who help those children to solve their legal situation in order to get a family, to be branded by you as "corrupt" and the children as "stolen" "

My quote from previous post, "Getting children through the abandonment process was a strategy used by corrupt facilitators and attys. It made it possible for them to steal a child or coerce a birth mom into giving the child up AND the abandonment met they did not have to take the DNA test. Also, it was a monthly allowance into their pocket, above the huge payment required in the beginning."

My quote above from previous post, "Now, as far as abandonment cases go, I am not saying they all are corrupt"

Quote by Susana, "If the processes to restore the rights of the children were so corrupt, why do you have so much faith in the CNA that will use it WITH EVERY CHILD in order to rule the child adoptable?"

Wikipedia, the Free Encyclopedia, "Organized crime or criminal organizations are groups or operations run by criminals, most commonly for the purpose of generating a monetary profit. The Organized Crime Control Act (U.S., 1970) defines organized crime as "The unlawful activities of ... a highly organized, disciplined association...".

Fact, according to the US Embassy, more than 90% of Guatemalan birthmothers were receiving payment under the old system.

Fact, according to the US Embassy, numerous adoptive families reported to be victims of corruption under the hands of facilitators & adoption attorneys under the old system.

Fact, many Guatemalan women have reported that their children were stolen at birth, or from their own arms.

Fact, private investigations, using an infiltrate, uncovered several strategies that were used to get around the DNA test. The practice of paying birth mothers to place their child for adoption, although illegal, was also uncovered.

Now, what is truly shocking is that you have lived in the country of Guatemala and have worked in adoptions for a long period of time and yet this entire time you have never witnessed corruption?

At any point in time, especially after 2003, the facilitators and attys, could have said, "the children of Guatemala are in danger of being sold. What can we do to protect them?"

They could have joined together and stopped the practice of paying birth mothers to hand over their babies.

They could have fought to get laws in place that would allow them to help birth mothers financially during their pregnancies. Financial assistants that is documented and transparent, AND, assistance that is given to the birth mother as a donation, meaning that if the birth mother changes her mind to keep the child, then she can without the fear of retaliation.

They could have brought transparency to the Foreign Guatemalan Adoption Fee that PAPs were required to pay.

They required PAP's to pay $20,000-$40,000 US Dollars for each adoption. Many times these funds were required to be in a cashiers checks made out to an individual and not the name of the Children's Home.

There was no accountability of these funds or even a disclosure of what the money was used for.

Numerous PAP's reported being threatened with losing their referral if they asked too many questions or they wanted answers explaining discrepancies that they noticed during the adoption process or during the many stories/lies that the facilitators/attys told them.

Quote from Susana, "If the processes to restore the rights of the children were so corrupt, why do you have so much faith in the CNA that will use it WITH EVERY CHILD in order to rule the child adoptable?"

Susanna, if the "process to restore the rights of the child" is done legally, ethically, and with accountability/transparency" than corruption will find this to be a difficult environment to prosper in.

The CNA will be responsible and accountable for every Quetzales that goes through their hands. The moment that any of the members do an under table deal, is the moment that corruption will being to invade the CNA.

President Colom has already shown that the government will not give any room to individuals to be in positions of leadership, whom they do not trust to hold the position of leadership with accountability and ethical standards.

President Colom has already shown that they will closely monitor all funds that go through the CNA and that the CNA will be accountable to use the funds legally and ethically.

This was very obvious in the fact that no funds were released to the CNA, during the period of time, when the courts were still determining who the legal members of the CNA would be.

Quote from Susana, "For the children without a family, foster care is a temporary solution. Adoption is the solution.

My quote above from previous post, "I do hope that the CNA can find a way to keep the foster care system. The foster care system is a fantastic way to provide a child a home while the CNA is looking for an adoptive placement."

Quote from Susana, "The average child costs to the US taxpayers $18,000.00 a year in the US."

Susana, I'm not sure where you got that $18,000.00 amount from, because I was a therapeutic foster care parent in the US. Because the children placed in my home had severe behavioral issues, we were paid $1,000 a month per child placed in the home, to help care for the child's needs. So, that would equal $1200 a year.

Now, the majority of children who needed foster care placement, were not children who needed a therapeutic foster care placement, Most of the children just needed a regular foster placement home.

Families who provided regular foster care would receive around $300-$400 US dollars per month to help with the needs of the child. So, at $400 dollars a month, that is only $4,800 a year per child for foster care.

Now, some agencies also gave the foster family a yearly allowance for school clothes, etc.

So, I'm not sure where the $18,000 comes from, unless the child was in a residential setting/group home.

I'd also like to add that there are some very ethical and trusted adoption attys in Guatemala, who in the corrupt environment did the best they could to help children find adoptive homes.

Now, rumor has it that the CNA may choose some adoption attys to work with, whose reputations are good in the community.

If this happens then those attys, who did the best they could to not be part of the corruption/coercing birth parents/extorting money from PAP's, during the old adoption system, may now have an opportunity to work with the CNA to help children through the legal process of the adoption.

I received word today that our file was submitted to PGN. I guess there is some progress. I was told some of the files were being kicked out, if they didn't have an updated medical.

Laurz were you resubmitted after being registered by the CA or were you in PGN before 12/31 and never got KOed? I am waiting to hear that we are ALL back in PGN. Thanks

Dear Aristar;

Please; please we don't want to hear from you, and your ranting. I don't know where you get your so called "facts", but you are very annoying, and as an adoptive parent of two boys I don't want to listen to all the corrupion you think has happened. The fact is the children are in loving homes. Do you really think the Guatemalan government is going to set up some social system like we have here in the US, so the orphaned children can get an education and have a future? please choose to have a private email with Susana!!!! Your information is not helpful or informative just bla bla!!!!

I was just told by my agency that files are still not being accepted by PGN until the database is up and running. How did you get in?

Thank you Carolynn. I am tired of reading it as well. The fact that there was corruption is not news. I think we all know that. As the parent of a child who went through abandonment prior to her referral with a reputable attorney, I take great offense to the broad generalizations she is making about abandonments. I thank God everyday that DD's attorney and hogar were willing to take my DD in and put her through a 10 month abandonment process with no guarantee that she would ever become adoptable and be able to be referred to a family so they could recoup their costs and take a fee. Heavens knows the government wasn't going to take care of her. I can't even think about where she may be now had they not taken her in. The fact is that some attorneys were bearing the burden of providing for abandoned children---a responsibility I can only pray the government will now take up. However, I will believe it when I see it.

The great thing about this forum was that people could express their views freely, without personal attacks. I, for one, would like to see it continue as I have found this site to be helpful, informative and all angles tend to be covered by contributers. I feel that huge change has taken place with a lot of education about the good and the bad. Its up to us to accept or refuse what information we are given but that does not mean we have the right to deny it being offered to others.
By the way , the good news is that PGN seem to be moving and shaking so lets rejoice in getting these babies home safely and then pray for those who will be instigating the new adoption process for the children of Guatemala> B.

so Carolynn, the fact that the children are now in loving homes makes how they might have gotten there completely irrelevant?? I too am the parent of two kids from Guatemala, and I assure you I am interested in what Airstar has to say - if for no other reason that I expect my kids will ask me about their adoptions someday - and I am not about to tell them "it doesn't matter under what circumstances you got here" - because to them it may well! And it may to your kids too... Lee

Whoaaaa. Hang on here people. Carolynn, I think Airstar brings up some valid concerns. I don't think her views are entirely accurate but I believe some truth lies in there. As adament as Airstar is in defending this new system, Susana is in defending the lawyers. There are some VERY good ethical people on both sides. Personally, I am weary of any government system. SOME may be very legitimate in their efforts but until a welfare system is set up and the poverty and racism addressed, I will hold back on raising my banner of support. I will remain hopeful. As for the lawyers, I believe many have had and continue to have the best interest of the children in mind, Susana being one of them, but I am not so naive to believe that they are ALL so altruistic. While I won't condemn any lawyer for making money thru adoption, I certainly will condemn those who have crossed the line of ethics and coersed, stole, threatened, whatever. I WISH they would be prosecuted. They are criminals. But just because a lawyer is involved in adoption does not make them evil as some might infer. As I have said before, and continue to believe, the truth lies in the gray area and while it is difficult to read when some are so adamently black and white on one side of the fence or the other, I do believe it is important to listen to those voices. I just wish they weren't raised so loud that they muffle the sounds of the babies left in the future abyss which I have yet to hear a solution for.
Peace.

Airstar:

Please think and investigate before you write your opinions, i asume you are an american citizen, you don´t live in guatemala, you don´t know the truth about all, huge subject is ADOPTION, if you have a bad experience with some attorney is so bad but that don´t you give the right to judge all the sistem, you don´t are an authority in adoptions, is easy write and write and tell so many things, but like Susana Luarca Attorney say everything is true, if you think the stories and press release you read in media or see from the president and some stupid stories from birth moms say they are forced to deliver their babies for money that is not true, it was an interview with court family in the birth mom talk by herself and lonely with the social worker, if she was forced to give her child to adoption that´s one chance to advice at the courts of this, the DNA test in no way to do a test if the mom doesn´t want, she can talk, she can think they are no stupid or animals to do what the attorney say. And with all the information to the media gives from "corruption" in the adoption she knows she can go to PGN or the police and tell that her babies are stollen, In relation to the money to CNA you say " fact that no funds were released to the CNA, during the period of time, when the courts were still determining who the legal members of the CNA would be" now the members of the CNA are elected but i don´t see no news say CNA have the founds to start work new adoptions, to found persons to work, nannies, doctors? All this take us to : "please if you don´t have anything helping to say, something can be good to support or give ideas to start work the new sistem, don´t say nothing i think this web place is to help the paps are in process and the people are involve to adoptions actually, i can see Kevin and Kelly always are looking ways to been better the adoption process to all parts, and that is the important situation; stop to acused all the people, that is the past and all the people read this is worry in the present. And a last thing i can tell you i am guatemala college study i almost finish my career and i am proud to know in guatemala are a professionals like Susana Luarca, she doesn´t fear to fight for the rights of these pour babies born day at day, like yesterday close to the trashplace in zone 3 a baby girl is found in a street crying because the mom doesn´t want it. you can see this story in www.telediario.com.gt yesterday news, but i think that´s UNICEF, casa Alianza and all the people push and push to stop the adoption want it, because they don´t give time to build a new and better sistem. I pray for all the paps in process, and be hope, trust in God, he is the one can help to you and the babies. blesses to all.

Waitingfor2
We were kicked out of PGN on 1-14-08 for the second time. On 2-11-08 we received our CA registration number. On 2-13 my daughter saw the doctor for a check (which I was told was needed before resubmittal)and on 2-19 our file went back into PGN. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that we don't get kicked out again and everyone else that is waiting has a short wait.
Best of luck.

Carolynn,
I responded to Susana in a public post because she asked me a question in a public post.

I have no desire or time to private email anyone. However, I do have many who PM me here and on adoption.com because of what they are experiencing in the process of adoption, and because I can relate and I do feel for those facing corruption, I have no problem helping in any way I can.

Now, you seem to do very well keeping your head in the sand, so when ever you see my name or post just pass it up.

I'm not going to waste my time responding anymore, to those who want to overlook the cries of a child who was a victim to corruption, just so they themselves can not have to worry.

I really don't have much patience for adults who wine, so just grab some cheese with your wine and ignore my post.

All views are welcome on this site. This is an open forum.

I know that sometimes that can be difficult for the folks in-process. But as soon as we start censoring it becomes a slippery slope.

No one has to read any posts but more importantly, as a general rule in life, don't get upset by what someone else says. Even if you strongly don't agree with people, you don't need to be hurt by it. As an former opinion writer for a newspaper, I know I wish people could have just disagreed with me rather than becoming offended.

Lastly - OUR ONE RULE IS NO PERSONAL ATTACKS. PLEASE DON'T PUT US IN THE POSITION OF HAVING TO MAKE A CALL ON WHAT CROSSES THE LINE. BE COURTEOUS. SAY WHAT YOU WANT ABOUT WHAT SOMEONE WROTE, JUST NOT ABOUT THEM PERSONALLY.

Peace,

Kevin
Guatadopt.com

Charlie,

you said that PGN is moving. Do you know something more? Do you know if they are processing new cases registered with the CA by february 12. It would be a really good news. When I talked with my lawyer in Guatemala last week I was told no to expect any news until the end of this month.

Thank you,
Vince

Airstar said: Susana, I'm not sure where you got that $18,000.00 amount from (in regards to caring for US kids in fostercare)

Actually airstar, the amount of money paid to the foster parent in the US is not the only expense of a state caring for a child. in addition to the 400-700 paid to fosterparents for regular care (i speak for california), many children qualify for an additional 100-400 for "needs" above and beyond). so that is already 500- 1,000. then they have to pay the social worker who checks on the kids, the case worker who manages the case, the adoption worker who does the concurrent planning, the reunification worker who is out there working with the parents, and any foster family agency involved. then, there are the legal fees....most of these cases are in court, which means each child is represented by an attorney...they don't work for free. there are expenses to FLY and drive children to family visits with incarcerated parents, clothing allowances, and reimbursements for expenses such as tutoring and camp. THEN, each child is also given medical, which has to be paid for somehow, so thanks to the fed gov't and state again for kicking in on that one. many of these kids have medical and emotional needs....so those bills to the state can get high. then there is the little matter of WIC for children 5 and under...."free" food every month for every one of them. i am looking at a receipt right now from when i was receiving WIC for my one year old foster son...the total for the month was $95.06....so there is another 100 bucks a month, provided by the state. i am sure there is much more i am forgetting $ wise that goes into caring for each and every child in US fostercare. But my point is, it is EASILY 18k per kid per year. so, i'm gonna have to side with susana on this one. i'm not sure Guatemala has the money, or the mindset to care for all of these children.

I should have probably mentioned this in my previous post, but I've said it all a million times and I forget that there are new readers to guatadopt every day.

Recently, I lived in Guatemala for one year and 6 months, in the process of completing an adoption.

We faced corruption and had to get the Public Ministry of Guatemala involved and a criminal attorney.

During this process we had contact with the US Embassy and the facts from the US Embassy were told to us during our meetings.

The facts concerning women reporting their children stolen come from personal conversations with Guatemalan women who related to our case and told us that their child was stolen but the Public Ministry did nothing about it. And, not just a woman saying the child was stolen but her other children and other relatives.

Also, these women do not have the money needed to hire a criminal attorney to present and argue their cases before the courts. Now, the Public Ministry was not able to help them in the past, but it looks like the Public Ministry is taking a more active approach in investigating these matters.

In our case, a private investigation was done and very shocking finding came out of the investigation. Which findings, we did submit to the United States Embassy.

You do not have to believe it if you don't want to. It's your decision.

With the new Adoption law, things will change to better protect the children from corruption.

Now, I too have thought about how will I tell my daughter about her adoption, when she is older.

To be honest, there was an easy way out a year ago. We could have given into the extortion, for the sake of our little girl and to get her home asap.

BUT, I realized that if I thought only of myself and our little girl, then things would be better for us, but, this is what kept going through my mind, "If a man/woman treats one child as a commodity/to be sold then even if I/we protect our one child, then many other children could be future victims.

I did not want to tell my little girl someday that she was part of a corrupt adoption process and I also could not turn my back on the children of Guatemala, knowing full well that some may be in danger to sharks.

So, we fought the corruption in the courts. Our case prevailed and our next step was to locate her birth mother. It took months to find her but we did find her and are now able to communicate with her.

In my little girls life books/scrapbooks I have news article and guatadopt article that date all the way back to her birth date, in addition to lots of pictures of her life.

I showed the family court social worker the book and she looked at one of the articles and said, this was a bad time in adoption ... and I said, I know ... but it's part of my child's story and I want her to know the story, the good and the bad ...

Maybe, one reason I keep fighting for the children in any way I can is because I'm determined to see a brighter future for these kids and some day add pages to her book that include articles of how the country is helping the children and protecting the children and their families from corruption.

Laurz - I think you are in a better boat then us - we were KOed the end of Dec and then had to go through CA registration and are waiting to be let back into PGN for 2 children - (one abandonment and one DNA match). Let's try to keep positive. Lots and lots of yuck flying around here tonight.

Airstar wrote: BUT, I realized that if I thought only of myself and our little girl, then things would be better for us, but, this is what kept going through my mind, "If a man/woman treats one child as a commodity/to be sold then even if I/we protect our one child, then many other children could be future victims.

Reading these words brought tears to my eyes. In my opinion, Airstar is a credit to our community. Thank you for sharing your experience with Guatadopt and for being a passionate advocate for reform. I know that what you have written has upset some people, but the horrible truth is that given that corruption existed in the old system (I say this not knowing the scale or scope of that corruption) there will be people--1? 10? 1000?--who don't have happy adoption stories. I sincerely hope that we can support these people, too, and hear and honor what they have to say.

All of us want adoptions to continue to be an option for Guatemalan mothers and the children who truly need families. These are very trying times--both for PAPS who have been tested beyond belief--and those of us who are sitting on the sidelines hoping that Guatemala can somehow buck the global trend and be a country that can enact reform without ending adoptions. Let's not turn on each other. We PAPS and APs might have differing views of Guatemalan adoptions, but we share something unique and precious--the understanding that the love you have for your child transcends genetics and geographic boundaries.

Elizabeth

For Susan Luarca

Susan

Could you please give us all an update on what, if anything, is currently happening in Guatemala. There's been no update on either this site of that of the ADA for over a week!

Many thanks on behalf of us all.

Vince, I believe PGN is moving because there are reports of previos and OUTs on cases submitted/resubmitted since 2/11 on Guatadopt forum and adoption.com forum. I hope your case works out well. B.

anyone has success getting through to PGN today? I've been trying all day.

I agree. Govermental agencies and beauracracies are always the best folks and systems to eliminate corruption in any process - regardless of theme...

I find they are very effective in managing issues, speeding up the process and adddressing the root cause and the needs of the people they serve...

I question why we just don't turn more stuff over to the goverment to fix...and the most effect managers of problems... the United Nations.... boy they can address any problem faster than I have ever seen before...

PGN... we see people getting pinks but does anyone really know the estimated time for a case to get through? I have heard #'s from 8 weeks to 50 weeks.

Our attorney said that PGN is not accepting new cases, yet. Also, we have been registered with CA, but don't have a case # yet.

Hmmmm.......

Anyone care to comment?

AD

we're back in pgn! if you were waiting to be let back in after CA registration, call your agency and check. I was one of the last registered but we are back in now....happy day! good luck to all.

In regards to the quote below, I challenge you to watch the documentary called "When Mountains Tremble" told by 1992 Nobel Peace Prize winner Rigoberta Menchu and see if you still feel the same way. Some very disturbing stuff uncovered in that documentary for Guatemala AND the USA!!!I personally had no clue, and it was an eye opener and something that forever has changed me...Please rent it and watch!!
Sam

---------------
Quoting the below.....
"I agree. Govermental agencies and beauracracies are always the best folks and systems to eliminate corruption in any process - regardless of theme...

I find they are very effective in managing issues, speeding up the process and adddressing the root cause and the needs of the people they serve...

I question why we just don't turn more stuff over to the goverment to fix...and the most effect managers of problems... the United Nations.... boy they can address any problem faster than I have ever seen before...

Comment by Rich at February 21, 2008 04:52 PM "