I'm so glad the Prensa Libre put these pictures up. Is there anyway for the other mothers to put pictures out too?

Most PAPs receive pictures of the baby very young and sometimes other pictures, as they get older.

Can someone translate and let us know how old the photos are, current ages of the children, when they went missing etc?

Translation:
GT NEWS: MOTHERS ARE STILL SEARCHING FOR THEIR CHILDREN
Posted on Forum: Today at 05:48:42 AM, Marie, Guatadopt.com

Mothers who have denounced the abduction of their children fear that, if given the go-ahead to the three thousand 200 adoptions that have been registered with the ANC, they will never see them again.
Mothers are still searching for their children

PHOTO GALLERY: See photos of three girls that the mothers are looking for

Photo description: She is a year and a half, was kidnapped when she was five months. She is indigenous.
Opinion: They call for more research Norma Cruz

"We will not rest until you find these girls, and ask to open an investigation against all persons who are connected to these networks. We demand the PGN to verify all of the records, to avoid anomalies, "said the director of Survivors, Norma Cruz.

BY: Lorena Seijo

Carla, Ester and Angela are three of the eight girls who are still in the hands of the networks of international adoptions, but their mothers are unable to find their whereabouts.

The three were kidnapped in 2007 to be given for adoption, but the allegations made by their mothers at the Public Ministry (MP) and the adoption of the law on adoptions halted the process.

The daily bread of mothers of small ones is to go to casa cunas (hogares), look in the eyes of small ones and attempt to recognize in them the look of their daughters and put pressure on institutions for help.

Olga Lopez may be closer to finding her small daughter. Despite the fact that she was snatched away when she was a month and a half old, in one of the searches that were made in homes, Olga believes she recognizes her daughter Carla.

Survivors Foundation, which supports legal and psychologically services to mothers, requested a DNA test through the National Institute of Forensic Sciences in order to certify whether the girl, now a year and a half, is the daughter of Olga. It has been several months and the result has not arrived.

Like Olga, Ana Escobar and Loira Rodriguez do not lose hope, and every day they look between the pages of the newspapers photographs of girls who have been abandoned and which seem to be like theirs.

According to statistical data of Survivors, three thousand children are waiting to leave the country in the market for adoptions, of which 500 could have been abducted over the past year, and therefore requested that their photographs are brought to the light of the mothers looking for their children. Five hundred of those files to the National Council for Adoptions has already given the go-ahead, is signed by the same attorney.

Currently, the Foundation follows up on eight cases of stolen children. In certain cases, such as that of the sisters Alvarado Yat, which were returned to her mother last February 25, after a year and a half of searching, there are two people linked to this process.

Consuelo Lilia Galindo, alleged ringleader of the network, was arrested in mid-2007, but the judge offered her a substitute because the offence for which the prosecution accused her of child abduction-enjoys this benefit. Mirla Donis Sabrina Hernandez, the woman who hosted Mildred at his home during pregnancy and who took the baby to the hospital, is a fugitive.

Galindo's son, Marvin Bran, it was not linked to process, despite the fact that he handled the dossier of adoption of the two sisters in the U.S. Embassy. UU.

The solicitor for Children, Mexican Victor Hugo said he will investigate all members of the network, including lawyers, as the case clearly reflects how to operate these structures.

The three girls names are:
Carla, Ester and Angela

Photos in order as they appear:
1. Current age 1 and a half yrs. old
Kidnapped at the age of 5 months.
Biomom's name- Olga Lopez

2. Current age 1 and a half yrs. old
Kidnapped at the age of 2 months.
Biomom's name- Ana Escobar

3. Current age 3 years and 4 months old. Biomom's name- Loira Rodriquez

I don't understand how these are in the process of being adopted as this newspaper infers.

Wouldn't the two DNA tests make it absolutely impossible for this to happen? And if so, why doesn't somebody speak up about that? I for one am tired of all my friends and family reading the news reports on how some adopted children from Guatemala are purchased or stolen. It places suspicioun in everyone's mind. I don't want feel uncomfortable everywhere I go with my baby wondering who is looking at me and thinking my baby may have been kidnapped.

I understand that these little ones are missing, but are they really linked to the adoptions in process? If not, can't somebody call these journalists to account?

HOLLI,

if you want to send an e-mail to " Prensa Libre " you can click on " servicios " on their web site and after you have to click on " contactenos ".

Vince

These adoptions could be processed through the abandonment process...where DNA tests are not required.

Could someone please explain "statistical data of survivors" what this is, and what it means?

Also, "of which 500 could have been abducted in the past year".

If it truly is suspected that 500 children were abducted, why are there only 8 mothers coming forward?

If 500 children were abducted, I want to see 500 arrests! I want to see both countries working together to jail the culprits! Even if just one child was abducted, jail all of those who played a role in it!

But, if 8 are suspected, and there is not any evidence of the other 492, then I too want these reporters called out on this!

I too, am sick of hearing from co-workers, relatives, and friends statemanets like, "a lot of children are stolen and sold for adoption from Guatemala" and then the follow-up question, "any chances your daughters could be one of them?" questions on a weekly basis, everywhere I go!

It is not fair to my children!

I too, want to know how these children can be placed in the adoption process with the two DNA tests in place?

Also, could the photos be placed on this site? Anyone with dial-up, it is almost useless to try to get to view these photos. I wqaited 20 minutes and didn't even get to the last step yet.

Also, on the Dateline story, two of the three girls were returned. Is there any progress being made in finding the third child? I just do not understand how this child could've gotten by the US Embassy, DNA, check-up, paperwork?

anonymous

I can only imagine how difficult it would be for people to wonder if your adoptive child had been kidnapped but on the other hand, if the problem is out there, is how people perceive you and your child really a reason to stop reporting the problem? I don't want to be insensitive to what you feel and what you are going through but it also seems selfish to wish these stories away because they make you uncomfortable.

Holli, these are not the first kidnapped children who have been involved in adoption - look through previous GuatAdopt postings on the subject. DNA tests have been falsified in the past, and another way of circumventing that requirements is for the criminals to get a Certificate of Abandonment for the kidnapped child - so no DNA required. As for people suspecting that our children were kidnapped from their first moms or sold by them - well, most of us do not know the whole factual background of our adoptions - I hope not on both counts but I REALLY hope not on the first count. JMHO. Lisa

Jeez, if you look at the second picture the woman holding the girl has some white tape or something over her mouth. Just looks weird. You can only see it briefly until the "anterior" word gets overlaid on her head. I'm sure the authorities in Guatemala have noticed this. Hope they find the kids, whether it was adoption related or not.

Holli,

not all case are processed as a reliquishments. if these children were put thru as abandonments so there is no bio family to do DNA against..

unfortunately there are immoral and unscrupulous people that are doing adoptions that are not in it for the children, but the old mighty $$ and who i wish would be prosecuted and thrown in the darkest holes within prison.. i wish i could say these people did not exist, but what we have seen and Guatadopt has brought to our attention shows there are..

I am not saying that is what happened here, but just reminding you there are 2 ways a child can come up for adoption..

Kevin thanks for posting it this here

Pam

Those involved in such tragic cases are clearly only driven by money. Since PAPs pay at least half, if not all, the international fee prior to the first DNA, I would think this incentive enough for them to offer such a referral, knowing full well that it won't go beyond the first DNA.

Lilian

Pam, thanks for clarifying. I hadn't considered (and don't know much about) the abandonment process.

I hope nobody thought I was saying that these little ones weren't missing or didn't need to be found. I think I was just confused at how they could be related to adoptions.

It seems like some kind of process could be put in place to minimize this kind of thing (i.e. an extra step in the process where all children being placed through the abandonment process must be compared with a list of missing children, or something like that). I'm sure I'm being simplistic, and others more informed and involved are looking at ways to prevent this.

It is also **possible**, that the women did not understand what they were signing due to lack of literacy/non-Spanish speaking. It is also **possible** that the women were unduely pressured into signing.

I don't mean to infer that it happens at any frequency. Just that process has *room* for exploitation.

An abandonment process is the legal way to restore the rights of the children whose rights to a family have been violated, or who were rescued from abusive households. As anyone can easily understand, the main purpose of the process is to provide a family to the child, either the biological family if it is found or an adoptive family if it is not. Before ruling a child “abandoned”, the PGN does a very thorough investigation to find the mother and relatives of the child, the hogar where the child is being cared for has to publish the picture of the child in the newspapers, with a call to the parents or relatives of the child and the address of the court. Aside from that, the court asks the section of missing people of the Police Department to look if there is a complaint of a missing child fitting the description of the child.

Some posters have implied that an “abandonment” process was a way to circumvent the double DNA tests. It is not so. With so many children who were willingly relinquished by their mothers, there was no need for anyone to go through the abandonment process. It is because the children who don’t have a mother to relinquish them are the ones who need most to solve their legal situation, in order to be given a permanent family. On the other hand, it is the welfare of the children what the court has in mind, not the rights of the parents whose children are in a situation of abandonment, and do not come forward to claim them.

The new Adoptions Law has embraced the abandonment process as the process to rule a child “adoptable”. Since that law was not made to make adoptions easier, it must be because those who pushed for it know very well that each process is an uphill battle that only the hogar who represents the child has to fight against the time consuming investigations, the many postponements of the hearings due to the absence of the PGN lawyers and the reluctance of the court to rule the child adoptable.

Regarding “Fundación Sobrevivientes”, it is a ghost entity who does not have legal existence, only a very vocal director who tried to promote her image with the killings of women, but since that did not work out, she switched her battle cry to “help women whose children have been ripped off their arms, to be illegally adopted”. Her website is at http://www.sobrevivientes.org

In the same way that it is absolutely wrong to do an adoption against the will of the child’s mother, it is equally reprehensible to stain all adoptions with the label of “stolen children” as these so-called organizations do. Casa Alianza uses the same strategy, because the children of the street do not seem to attract enough attention to generate donations, especially when it is known that the services of that entity include the sexual abuse of the children they claim to protect, as it was disclosed in the Bruce Harris scandal, in 2004.

I am sure that now that lawyers cannot do new adoptions, those who criticized them for charging for their legal services and for the child care, are willing to do adoptions now, totally free of cost. Let us know how to contact them, because mothers keep knocking at the doors of the lawyers, wanting to relinquish their children, so they can be sent to them.

Susana Luarca

Dear J1270,

I don' think any adoptive parent wants stories about kidnapped children to be squashed because it makes their adoptions look suspicious. The problem is most people who are not not involved in the adoption process don't understand that there is more than one way to adopt ie: relinquishment and abandonment. Unfortunately, in many of these news stories there is no clarification of how many suspicious adoptions there could be out of the total number. Of the 3,000 in process, what is the percentage of abandonment cases? I follow the situation and I don't know. I was under the impression only a fairly small number of adoptions are processed as abandonments but I could be wrong.

What I think most adoptive parents want is for these news reports to be accurate and not sensationalistic so the general public has a clearer view of the situation. We all want people who kidnap children to be put in jail. What we don't want are news stories that imply that every adoption should be viewed with suspicion simply because it took place.

As far as faking a DNA test, I'm not sure how that is possible. From what I understand, both mother and baby need to be present and the DNA is taken from saliva samples. The actual tests are performed in the US labs. Do people actually forge the lab results?

As a mother who has waited exactly two years this month (and am still waiting) for my children to be declared abandoned, please don't EVER imply that it is the "fast" or "easy" way to adoption. That's an insult to those of us who've waited and waited for our children.

Its also possible they aren't up for adoption to US parents. Remember the DNA requirement is a US requirement, not a Guatemalan one, and not a requirement for other countries who adopt from Guatemala. Even though the vast majority of adoptions are to US couples we must remember we are not the only ones in the mix. Not to say its not possible the adoptions are tied to US adoptions but its not the only possibility.

They need a national database for these children that all authorities, NGO's, churches, hogars, etc can check cases against. It needs to be online so everyone else can review missing persons or submit tips. Its sad it hasn't happened yet. It makes me think it will require more tragedy and too many people personally impacted as with John Walsh before it happens.

I still want to know where the "500" is coming from.

Are 500 of the 3000 cases abandonment cases and the other 2,500 relinquishment cases?

As someone else said either here or on another thread, is it actually expected/suspected that many of the relinquishment cases will not pass the second DNA test? That these referrals were only given to get the first payment from the PAPs, full well knowing that the child will not pass the second DNA?

Susana, Kevin, anyone else, can you shed light on where this reporter got the "500" from?

Lisa and others have said that DNA tests have been "falsified in the past". Please tell me how this is accomplished?

I can see how it could be done when there is only one DNA test, but how would this be done with two DNA tests? If you know how this is done, speak up so we can all watch out for it!

J1270, I really don't think anyone is suggesting that we "stop reporting the problem" because we are uncomfortable, where did you get the idea that anyone was suggesting that?

I just want factual information, and all sides of the story presented, not always slanted to the negative, because that is the only view then, that others will come away from the story with.

I feel terrible for these mothers who had their children kidnapped, and the people involved should be punnished severely!

I also feel terribly for the mothers who right now want to relinquish their children, and who have no place to go for support. Maybe these mothers should all go to Bienestar, or the new CNA, or to PGN, on a regular basis, or even better yet, sit on Casa alanza's doorstep, or UNICEF's, and ask for the help that was promised them when they were saved by the new adoption laws and the Hague from all of the evil PAP's in the US that want to provide a forever family to a child.

anonymous and very angry

I too am waiting for the completion of an abandonment case. I feel that maybe we got our COA too quickly. What can I do? Where can I go to check that everything was legal? My stomach turns when I think that maybe, somewhere, there is a mother looking for the child I am about to adopt. Maybe I'm just making myself crazy.

Dear J1270,

It has nothing to do with "how people perceive you or your child really a reason to stop reporting the problem...because they make you uncomfortable" it has more to do with telling the entire story. Yes they should publish these stories and do everything they can to capture and prosecute the culpirts but they should also tell the stories of the thousands of adoptions that go through the proper process and channels.
If you were going through an adoption right now maybe you would understand

I speak not only as a bio parent but as an adoptive parent as well....I too had a referral whose DNA didn't match the woman who claimed to be his birth-mom. If he is not her bio child....then who is he? Where did he come from? I guess I would need an answer to that question before I can say he is "my" child.

Anyone know how old these pictures are, age taken, are the ages listed the age they would be this month?

The DNA test is not just a US requirement, it is a requirement of the PGN, that us, the lawyers, urged them to demand in every case, including the adoptions done by Guatemalans.

After talking to the people who handled the adoption of the sisters who got pre approval, I must tell you that there are two sides to each story and that it is not true that the mother gave her blood to help her daughters who had been kidnapped. She went to the DNA Lab willingly, allowed her saliva to be swabbed, and later she changed her mind about the adoption. I am not endorsing an adoption done against the will of the mother, but to say that the children were stolen for illegal adoptions, is stretching the truth.

Susana Luarca

I just wanted to say that I know that DNA tests CAN be faked. I know people always ask how? But I know of a case where a different baby that looked "similar" was taken to the DNA appointment and the mother was posing as the other babies mom (the baby that WAS to be adopted). The babies looked about the same, I can see how it passed through the hoops, but it was NOT the same baby. Just for DNA this mother's REAL baby was used. She was NOT the mother of the baby being adopted and the lawyer was using her and her real baby to pose for the adoption because the baby being adopted was abandoned and the attorney didn't want to go through an abandonment case with that child. In the end, it was caught and that baby never did find a home. It was very sad...but it is done. Hope that makes sense....Just trying to explain hoe some attorney's have tried to get around the DNA thing.

Just to clarify for some of you-
DNA-The DNA test is not a blood test, but a swab done in the mouth.
The first DNA test the child is matched to the biomother. The Second DNA test done is to confirm that this child getting the visa is the same that did the first DNA test, and so the biomother is not involved in the second DNA test. The argument of the DNA test is that while it does prove mother-child relationship, it does not shed light in whether a mother was coersed. Also, if a mother changes her mind in any step of the process prior to the final acta (her final signature) the child should be returned to her, the trouble is that many mothers do not know where there child is, hence the requirement by the CNA to have the address and picture of where the child is located.
Photos of the missing girls-
The photos posted are the last photos the mothers have, the ages are the current age the girls are now.
Marie, Guatadopt.com

I can't quite understand where this conversation has gone. Are you all listening to yourselves? The article is about missing children and the mothers that are searching for them.

I don't doubt that an article such as this contains sensational statistics. But everyone seems to be worried about how THEY look as a result of this story. Everyone is concerned about how it doesn't also explain to the rest of the world how most adoptions are legit.

Why in the world is it necessary for a new story about kidnapping to also be conscious of our legal relinquishment adoptions?

This story is about women who had their children stolen from them. Why are we making it about us?

To those who responded to my earlier post, I was responding to one poster in particular but when I posted I wasn't thinking about the fact that comments have to be approved and forgot that there was a good chance others had posted in between. I'm sorry if that made you think I was talking about and to all PAPs. That said, I still stand by my feelings that, in the emotional drain of the process, *some* PAPs get caught up in their own struggles and, even if only momentarily, are willing to compromise the rights of some Guatemalans in the simple desire for their adoption to not be judged. To me, this is selfish. I have even heard a few PAPs (definitely not here, though, but it does happen) who have gone as far as to say they do not care if their child has been kidnapped because it is God's wish for the child to be with them, by any means necessary. This is obviously an extreme example and I am not accussing anyone here of feeling that way but people have said it and I repeat it here to point out that there are PAPs out there (even if the very small majority) who are not as moral as yourselves. If nothing else, I point this out here because I think PAPs should be careful about how the represent themselves online. Everytime I hear someone say they are sick of hearing these stories, it seems selfish to me. If you want a more balanced report, fine. If you want to make sure the reports are accurate, fine. But I just suggest that PAPs are careful in how they express those desires because, in the emotion of the moment, it often comes across as "geez, don't these reporters know what they are doing to *me* when they report on this?"

I know this is completely of subject but I was just wondering if anyone has been through PGN recently and if there is any news on how long (on average) it takes to process the recent cases. I know JCICS has about 2 months but I didn't know if this has changed.

Thanks,
Michelle

Has anyone heard any news on PGN and how resubmitted files are doing?

i was resubmitted on 2/22 and today when I called PGN the person told me that we should be out this week.
I dont know what to expect after that.

Michelle, waitingfor2 and others-
Your questions about timelines, PGN, and what happens after exiting PGN...can easily be answered if you log onto our Forum.
Marie, Guatadopt.com

Into PGN Dec 28th, notified of out today, March 5th.....@ 9 1/2 weeks w/ no kick outs!!!!!

Entered PGN 12/28/07, just notified this afternoon I'm out w/ no kick outs......@ 9 1/2 weeks from start to finish in PGN. Anyone have an recent experience w/ getting a BC from Mixco???

Up to date info regarding timelines for Mixco bcs can be found on the forum. We have many many parents in different stages of the Mixco bc that can offer their thoughts and experiences. Marie, Guatadopt.com

I know how excruciating the process and whole PGN wait can be. However, I don't think it is approrpiate to ask those questions here out of respect for both birth and adoptive mother.