or the PAPs!!!!

Thank you Kevin. We can definitely agree that it was not the children that falsified these documents and they are the ones that are in jeopardy right now. Not to mention, the prospective parents who have an emotional bond with these children. At least for our family, he is our son and there is the a real possibility that he may not come home. What happens to these innocent lives if they don't? Are they doomed to a life in an orphanage? I have never made an adoption plan for a child so I don't know what emotional toll a women takes when she does that. I can only imagine the difficulty in most cases that these women face when they do this. Yes, they may have broken the law but in a country that views the women as second class citizens it is easy to understand why this could/can happen. Please remember these children when one starts pointing the finger as they are the true victims of this.
An extremely worried, scared CQ parent

I hope that you'll get the Office of Children's Services at DOS, along with the people there who deal in travel warnings/advisories to issue families some concrete guidance.

This is another reason why families whose children came home on IR-4 Visas should readopt and get Certificates of Citizenship. It seems to me that the US govt would be less likely to cooperate in the deportation of children who have attained US citizenship. Just my 2 cents.

Thank you for addressing this and trying to get to the bottom of that inflammatory quote. What if Guatemala was able to "prove" that adoptions were illegal. Would they come in and force families to give back children they have parented and loved for several years? That would not only rip the parents' hearts to pieces, but would be equally devastating to the children.

In the context of the articles he is referring to the one case of Luciany who is already a U.S. citizen and her birth mom's documents are part of their fraud investigation of Casa Quivira.

"In Luciany's case, Guevara said authorities will try to find the girl's real biological family to determine if they want her back. If they are not successful, Luciany, at least, will stay.

"We'll try to locate the child's father and her immediate family," Guevara said. "If we can't find them, in my opinion we can't take this girl away from the family she already has."

Taken out of context it is scary but it seems to refer specifically only to five cases at Casa Quivira.

Joan

To second Kevin´s comments about the history in Cambodia. There was evidence, beyond doubt, that children were stolen and or paid for in Cambodia. Their identities were ´laundered´ by Lauryn Galindo and Lynn Devin (who served time in jail eventually). One agency--their Seattle based agency-- created a disasterous situation. A number of families residing in the US were told that their child was 100% sure to have been stolen-sold into adoption (aka child trafficking). They HAD to be told because when the case was going to court against Galindo and Devin the evidence was necessary for prosecution. However, the case was pleaded to and the families were spared the information being share in court, but they were clearly told (about 10-12 families, if I recall correctly). Then, they waited in limbo while the US government decided what to do exactly about repatriating the children or not. It was decided against and this is an incredibly important precedence. Of course, the whole situation was HORRIBLE for everyone involved, but this US precedence is a critical fact in the face of these claims and significant problems with CQ. Now, as for what Guate may request of the US Gov in terms of a child´s return, that is a wild card. But, Kevin makes some very good points. By the way, in the case of the Cambodia scandal (Devin and Galindo), the charges ended up being related to money laundering-conspiracy, etc. And, the US government went after them with full force. I don´t know if CQ will be this case--I know nothing more than what I´ve seen in the papers--but it has been my position that an American will go to jail eventually. I feel quite certain that Federal Marshalls are investigating something--CQ or other problems. We´ll eventually find out. So, a handful of families will be receiving investigation visits in the US, etc--a very unsettling experience and I say that with some history myself of dealing with Federal Marshalls investigating a crime in a foreign nation (I unfortunately witnessed something on foreign soil that was NOT adoption related but carried out by a US citizen). These are indeed very difficult times. Hence the reason for reform...it is time. I say this especially since CQ is pointed to as one of the best. If there are proven irregularities with CQ then I hate to think about the rest...

Please can someone post again the phone number to call the Pgn and ask for pending cases?

Thank you.
vince

I agree it was definately not the children that falsified their paperwork. As I have commented before (in our case with Trinity) the paperwork was falsified by the "real attorney" and her facilitator (both very bad people) and the BM. We even had a DNA test that matched under the assumed names.
On a fyi- even though our failed adoption was not handled by CQ, our POA is registered under one of their attorney's name (who worked under Blanca Martinez) and we have spoken with the other CQ attorney several times.
I think this whole situation involves many more people than just CQ staff or PAP and kids..... I think they were just the first to get caught in the spotlight.

I find it most interesting that the MP raided CQ with no evidence of wrong doing and have been searching for something for over 6 months. Isn't there suppose to be evidence of wrong doing before a raid or removal of children? Par for the course that the MP does whatever the H*** they want and try to strong arm people later to heal their black eye (ego). To me it sounds like their are people involved in this case that have no right to be involved, but for whatever reason they think highly enough of themselves to "save" these poor neglected children. Hard to believe that CQ can be as successful as they have been in the past and not care for the children in their care to the nth degree.

Prayers for the children and families of CQ

"I find it most interesting that the MP raided CQ with no evidence of wrong doing and have been searching for something for over 6 months."
pt's comment

pt,
The MP had numerous reports filed from concerned citizens of Antigua, reporting that the children were being seen daily leaving with foreigners.

Antigua is a very small city. If you spend enough time in it, you get to know the people and they get to know you.

When my case was in the MP, we were told that there were many adoption related cases. We deal with the MP first hand. While waiting for the hearings to take place can take a long time, weeks and months, they do have a system and we found that in our case justice was served. Their was a woman assigned to our case from the MP and she was excellent.

We didn't know if we would see justice as foreigners in a Guatemalan court, but we did. The focus was on protecting our little girl from being given back to the facilitator who was trying to sell her. We actually believe that he had already received money for her, that's why he fought us so hard, but in the end, the MP came through.

The MP in the past did very little to "strong arm anyone" pt, in relating to citizens reporting their child kidnapped and also other adoption corruption. However, I believe it was last April of 2006, the government gave funds to several different courts to use the funds to protect the children.

The MP was given funds to investigate cases that were reported to them concerning adoption of children, where other's attempted to financially gain from the adoption of a child.

That's what we were told and what they showed us in the newspapers.

Vince- If you log onto the forum, we have posted the numbers for PGN as well as extensions, person to talk to, best time to call and what to ask for. Marie, Guatadopt.com

airstar - numerous reports by the citizens of antigua regarding foreigners leaving with babies? this is just untrue. have the citizens of antigua reported 'sightings' of foreigners staying at hotels and coming and going with babies all over antigua? are you saying you believe everything you read in the papers? there were many other 'raids' on foster families/orphanages that same time - just none with accompanying press releases etc And CQ was registered and known to the authorities for many years. to believe that the MP actions were sparked by the reports of a concerned citizen is at best incredibly naive.

Airstar98,

They were raided because foreigners were seen leaving with children from there?! Hello!! It was an adoption facility and parents were either on visit trips or pick-up trips. It would be like the MP raiding and seizing the Marriott in GC because "foreigners were seen leaving from there with children."

Those of us who've adopted from there certainly don't tolerate a lack of ethics, but you don't stage a raid because citizens saw foreigners leaving CQ with kids. CQ has been in that location for a very long time and "foreigners leaving with kids" is nothing new -- they were adoptive parents meeting their children.

Just for the record, CQ Parent is not the same person as CQ parent (with a small p) - we obviously had a similar mind meld early in the morning but we're not the same, LOL.

HI Steve,
I have read much of what you have posted and I keep asking myself if my husband and I met you this summer outside of Antiqua at the organic coffee farm? Were you there giving a tour with a group of people?

Airstar98,
I want to respectfully disagree with your reason for the raid. The facility has been there for many years and was government recognized or licensed. In addition, in the months leading up to the raid PAPs did not go to the facility to help stop infections spreading among the children. So there were fewer than even Caucasian people leaving with children, a handful at most.
Whilst we were in Antigua we met many people with their adopted children, most of which were not Cq adoptees. There are also other hogars there, so this is a lame excuse if ever I heard one. Seems to me much more of a personal vendetta. If there is wrong doing proved, I will condemn it outright without exceptions. However I do think that this place was selected and it was their bad luck. on other forums, I have read that searches have shown married couples used different identities to place children. i don't support it, but it seems that this happens in other cases and it has been uncovered in the case of this agency. I don't honestly think we will ever know the truth of all this.

Kevin is right. There's no reason to worry about lawsuits in the US. Guatemala hardly has the resources to handle their own problems, much less those of children who are either US citizens or landed immigrants.

That said, I'd think twice before taking my child for a visit to his home country until influential Guatemalans clear the UNICEF poison propaganda out of their heads.

airstar98, it is a bit silly for a raid to occur because, "children were being seen daily leaving with foreigners." I do have to agree with CQ Parent. What the heck do you expect to see around an orphanage? Of course "foreingers" will be seen.

I do understand you are protecting your views of your country, for certain I would do the same thing. I have no emotional tie with CQ, I am glad we are not using CQ only because we have not been caught up in this power struggle. That isn't to say that they weren't a strong choice for us when we started our adoption. However, being from the vantage point of looking at what is going on with CQ from a distance I think it is easier to sift out fact from fiction because there aren't emotions tied into the events.

I also believe that the mindset that people shouldn't financially gain from adoptions is another naive view. Whether people like it or not orphanages/hogars must be run like a business. If they don't the kids would be in the same poverty ridden situation they were in before the BM brought them in. Last time I checked it takes money to buy supplies for children to survive. Once again, what is wrong with making money? Maybe it would be easier to grasp in these terms, when was the last time you just showed up at your job and insisted they not pay you for your time? You just love your job so much that you would donate your life to a job for no pay? I suspect the answer is, you have never done that. So why do you expect the orphanages to do this for their time and involvement in creating families?

The Guatemalan government has stated they will give hogars $4 a month and ONE pound of beans to care for children now. I know the cost of living the GT is lower than here in the US. But $4 a month? And what are they suppose to do with the beans? Hope the children can feed themselves because it doesn't sound like much money will be leftover to pay nannies or foster mothers.

bean soup for newborns, sounds delicious and nutrious!

My friend and I visited Semillas de Amor (sp?)
with our children. Our legally adopted, Guatemalan born children.
For the sole purpose of my friend donating a classroom at the new location.
So there is an instance of foreigners leaving an orphanage in Antigua with children.
Nothing sinister about that.

I really wish Juan Carlos Llorca and AP would have devoted more of his writing this week to covering the "forced disappearance" trial going on in Chimaltenango, rather than his usual anti-adoption agenda. His articles this week clearly are aimed at casting doubt over all Guatemalan adoptions in the eyes of readers.
As far as traveling with our children, particularly back to Guatemala, I proceed with an abundant amount of caution personally. I want very much for my daughter to be able to return to Guatemala one day, as many times as she desires to go. However, my husband and I will not be taking her there until the anti-adoption sentiment dies down considerably. Our family's safety and well-being must be our chief concern. I do not want to risk any kind of entanglements with someone wishing to cause us problems or extort a bribe. Until Guatemala settles down, we are choosing to take our daughter to Mayan sites in Mexico and Honduras to help her learn about her birth culture. Again, this is just our family's choice and comfort level with the ongoing situation in Guatemala.

pt:

Who stated: "The Guatemalan government has stated they will give hogars $4 a month and ONE pound of beans to care for children now. I know the cost of living the GT is lower than here in the US. But $4 a month?"

Excuse me, but where the heck did you get that information from? Please direct me to the source. Thanks.

I am going to respectfully disagree with no need to worry about lawsuits. I sued my agency and I do know this. The law only gives a plaintiff a limited time to file suit. It's called the statute of limitations. If a PAP misses the deadline, the PAP loses their chance to sue. The statute of limitations starts running the minute the PAP discovers the legal wrong (with some exceptions but not many exception). How long the statute of limitations is depends on which legal theory the PAP uses to sue. Some torts, one year to sue and that's it.

If a PAP has any reason to believe an adoption was fraudulent or negligent, consulting an attorney so they are advised of their legal rights is never a bad idea. Most attorneys will provide a free consult. Then again, like any area of law, adoption fraud is a specialized field and not every attorney out there has researched it or sued an agency. It does no harm to consult an attorney and if a PAP doesn't need to sue, then they have an expert opinion.

Attorneys can also be useful to have around if their is a contract dispute or the PAPs need to negotiate the agency greivance policy. Having legal counsel if the PAP decides to report their agency to state licensure for violations is also helpful.

BB,

I think you have misread this topic as nowhere was there any mention of anyone suing anyone.

The mention of attorneys was as a protecttion for fear that someone is going to try to repatriate a child who already been adopted and joined thier forever family in the US, not because of anything over an agency.

For the record, I am not an attorney and am in no way offering legal advice. I merely offer my opinions which many come to this site to read for whatever they are worth.

Kevin
Guatadopt.com

I would like to comment on bringing our children back to visit their birth country. My 7 year old son has been back to visit two times since he came home at 7 months. Our family plans on going back every other year. Both trips were amazing. I would highly recommend that everyone that has the resources take advantage of taking their children back their birth country.

The first trip was in 2006 and we took all of our children (at the time only one was born in Guatemala--we also have a daughter who was born in India and a birth daughter). It was awesome. All the kids constantly ask when we will be going back to Guatemala. We were with my son's foster family for 5 days and did tons of sightseeing. They took us to our son's birth city, to see his adoption documents and to meet his Judge. These were life changing experiences for all of us!

The most recent trip was in February of this year. My son turned 7 (his golden birthday) and we asked him what he wanted that would be special. His response "to go to Guatemala and visit my baby brother". We again were with his foster family for 5 days and it was just me and my two boys (our case is with the 2nd reviewer in PGN right now). We went back to Lake Atitlan and spent the weekend there.

I have photos of my son that are so moving. He is so at peace in Guatemala. He has a sense of belonging and of total comfort. He pointed out when we were in Santiago that "Mommy, you are the only one with white skin here!"

I have been to Guatemala 7 times and never felt unsafe or any negativity directed at me while there with my adopted or birth children. I have always experienced joy and positive comments about being there with my kids.

I would hate for other children to miss out on what my son has experienced. And I hope that you will feel safe enough to return very soon. I understand that it is up to each family to decide when the time is right to travel but I honestly would have no reservations about taking your daughter to visit.

another HUGE difference i see here is a falsification of a second identity as a single woman in order to be able to place your child for adoption without appearing in court, vs having your child stolen and placed with a family in another country.

as heartbreaking as it would be for me to lose my child, if i found out that he had been stolen from his birth family, stolen, i'm not sure i would fight his being reunited with his family if it were a safe and appropriate environment. i imagine my child being stolen then being told "sorry, he's already living with another family."

am i missing something here?

Kevin, kelly & all,

It is so heartbreaking to read about what is going on in Guatemala. My heart just breaks for the children left behind....... when I begin to think about it I just cry... such a beautiful country and with such needs... I know that children will continue to need loving adoptive homes.... I pray that somehow a system can be worked out that will allow children to find peace and security. Meanwhile I will continue to pray for the children.

Regards,
Gloria

Along these lines, I am wondering if visiting Guatemala in the next few months could be a problem for families who have adopted a child from Guatemala and re adopted in the US and have a US citizenship documentation. I hope that the DOS will also address this in the near future. Any insight on this topic would be helpful.

Our case was with Mexico and was slightly different. 22 families and 21 children were involved. The Mexican adoptions were proved to be fraudulent. Two years of investigation by two countries did not demonstrate that children were kidnapped or obtained by other foul play and no one in Mexico claimed a child as her own and asked for its return. Children were allowed to stay with their adoptive families in exchange for evidence and testimony, while the investigation was conducted and their adoptions were eventually legalized domestically, and their immigration status was adjusted. Three Americans served time in federal prison. No children were returned to Mexico. While this is not exactly like the current CQ case, it is a close precedent. It happened a decade ago, pre-Bush, pre-9/11 and pre-BCIS, and is detailed on my website.

Dear Marie,
like Vince, I would also be interested in info that is available on the Forums, but using them seems to be easier said than done? I've registered over a week ago and still do not have admin approval to use the account! I've sent a message to tech support many days ago as well...

pt:

Who stated: "The Guatemalan government has stated they will give hogars $4 a month and ONE pound of beans to care for children now. I know the cost of living the GT is lower than here in the US. But $4 a month?"

Excuse me, but where the heck did you get that information from? Please direct me to the source. Thanks.

Comment by Chapinlandia at March 14, 2008 11:21 PM

I have heard something similar to this as well. I have heard Q25/month/child ($3-$4 USD) and a 10 pound bag of beans/month/child is what Bienestar Social has stated would be their provision for caring for the child. EEK!

Hello,

We are scheduled for a birth country tour of Guatemala to take our 6 year old there. There are some people backing out of their plans to go on the tour because of fears of their children's safety. Can you please contact the DOS and get an official statement whether or not famiies wanting to travel to Guatemala should go? We would really appreciate help or advice you could give us.

Thanks,
Michelle

Michelle;

There may be hesitation form others, because Guatadopt needs to maintain a certain sureness in what they say, and the situation in Guatemala is not one that can allow much sureness. The Embassy and State Department have to be careful also.

So let me, as a front line observer who is not constrained by policy, speak reason to you. Please consider the logic, if not the source.

There is no way that the government will give you a hard time. The investigators are overwhelmed, and the Police are only beginning to know how to uphold simple laws, much less those of international portent. There is not a will in any branch of the government to punish previous adoptions. No one will hassle you from the official sector.

The population of Guatemala may have hard feelings towards traffickers of children, but have not risen up against any American adopter in the last few years, when there was plenty of opportunities to do so. I heard of one incident of a woman yelling "Illegal" at a couple who had a baby in a stroller in a hotel, but the screamer was not dangerous. There are stories that are now more than 10 years old of a "Gringo" woman being attacked in a small town, and there have been tense instances when people started shouting accusations, but reason prevailed. If your child calls you mom, you are OK as far as the vast majority of the population of Guatemala is concerned.

There are about 50 American missionaries who have adopted Guatemalan children in the last 10 years, and many still live here. They move around at ease, and would look the same as you to any observer.

That being said, Violent crime is a real fact of life here, and although Americans are safer, as no one wants the headache of the international repercussions ( even the bad guys know what's good for them, there is always a chance of a random violent act in a very violent society.

How do we log onto the Forum to get to the PGN contact information?

Could someone post that information here again?

Thankyou!

Michelle, this is a very important decision you are makeing. May I recommend that you call the DOS yourself to hear what they say straight from them. Sometimes in post things could get lost in translation. A well meaning poster could leave an important fact or imbelish another. I would for myself like to hear straight from the horses mouth, so I can question if I had questions. I would also call the USE of Guatemala and ask what they think. I know it is important for those who could afford to go back to the homeland of their adopted child, but in times like these you need to make an imformed decision and be comfortable with it. I am not saying go or not to go, what I am saying is you need to find out directly for yourself and feel comfortable . When you speak to the person at the DOS and / or the USE take names times and dates. This is just my humble opinion. Hope all works out well with whatever you decide. Waiting for Grace.

Ok, I am very sad now reading Michelle's comments. Here are parents that are trying to bring their children back to Guatemala for them to see their native country. Now some of them are afraid to bring their children back. Also what type of message is sending to the children. That they can't go back to their native country, because they won't be safe or taken? This article has done a lot of emotional damage to our children and their self esteem.
I can almost see some parents telling their children " don't tell anyone you don't know you are from Guatemala" out of fear.
I pray that this will be resolve so that the children can visit their native country and learn about it culture and not be afraid

Valued readers,

I can't sit back and read these comments without responding.

One official makes one comment which is possibly being taken out of context and now people are cancelling family vacations? Has the Guatemalan government EVER tried to stop an adopted child from going back to the states?

We speak of the message it could send to our kids to worry about such things. But who is it that is sending out that message? Our kids didn’t read this AP story and say they’re worried about visiting Guatemala. In addition to that, what message are we sending to our Guatemalan readers? It saddens me to see people really believe their country would do such a thing.

If there was such a threat, the DOS would issue a warning. They do not issue un-warnings. I have not been able to get anything official, I’m sorry about that.

Personally, I'd travel to Guatemala right now without fear. I'm not trying to diminish anyone's obvious "accept no risk" feeling when it comes to their children. I just think this one is not realistic.

Take a deep breath and don’t empower this journalist so much.

Just my opinion of course.

Peace,

Kevin
Guatadopt.com

I seriously doubt that visiting Guate will be a major problem for families in terms of how the Guate Gov't will react to the hundreds of families that will inevitably visit yearly--detaining children would be outrageous. And,in the major tourist locations there is an atmosphere of general acceptance and even celebration of outsiders/tourists because they bring much needed $$$ to spend. Yes, there are some bad feelings in Guate--how could there not be? We must be honest, there has been some fraud (how much we'll never really know exactly how much, % of cases). However, the chances of "bad feelings" being acted upon in some verbally ugly or physically violent manner is not likely in my opinion (although some off handed remarks may be made on a rare occasion as Steve illustrated above). What I worry about in terms of what the children hear is the mythology of stolen children. It is a fairly wide-spread belief amongst indigenous peoples that children have been stolen for a variety of reasons (the State Dept documented organ theft rumors long before adoptions were prominent here). Some extended birth families may be told by the birth mother that a child was stolen rather than confess to the fact that she made a relinquishment decision--or that she accepted money in return for relinquishment. Then the stolen children mythology is further fueled. That is my greatest fear for the children, especially when birth family searches begin on a wide-scale basis (as is inevitable over time). This is just my speculation, but with the indigenous population rumors ("chisme") spreads like wildfire. This is well known and has been documented by Anthroplogists. These worries about how people feel in Guate and possible policy issues further underscores a future with unbiased birth mother counseling and resource centers rather than a jaladora/buscadora (child finding) system. That component of Guate adoptions has contributed to the most serious human rights abuses--can you imagine a child finder showing up to your delivery of a child with an offer of money? Well, it happens. Hence bad feelings and rumors.

Kevin is completely right. You are panicing. Anywhere you go, any country in the world, "something" could happen. That "something" can happen in our own country.
Anytime you travel, you need to be safe, cautious, and aware of your environment. I've been to Guatemala several times to adopt both my girls, and as a single, blonde haired woman, I had absolutely no problems. I was careful where I went-- I didn't stay cooped inside the hotel. I went to the market, walked to the Embassy, found the shopping malls, and ate in neighborhood restaurants. Everyone I encountered smiled and wished me luck, and many thanked me for giving the babies a better life. I had hugs from strangers, and the babies were kissed and cuddled.
I can say I felt as safe as I did walking in my hometown.
Don't pass your fear onto your children.

I find these very interesting comments about the fear that a lot of parents are feeling. As a gay parent these types of fears have been with me from day one of the adoption process (back when things were 'easy') and they will probably be with me forever. Eight years ago I was scared to death to go to Guatemala. I asked myself the day before I left if I was willing to die for this. I went because the fear I had for her if I didn't go was much worse and my love for her was stronger than any fear I had. So the fear can be very real for some but the reality of the situation is probably more like: 'All we have to fear is fear itself'.

"I can almost see some parents telling their children " don't tell anyone you don't know you are from Guatemala" out of fear." Shawn, I can't believe you even typed that comment. I guess it is a valid thought, but is really a thought that you may have want to kept within the confines of your head.

It is disgraceful to the beautiful Guatemalan culture to spread such an odd comment, to speak those words to a child will make them ashamed and fearful of who they are and where they come from. All that is going on is just a bump in the road...maybe a very large bump, but a bump nonetheless. To even think of telling your child or any child "don't tell them your from Guatemala" is just repugnant and well, not that I'm trying to be mean, but a bit ignorant.

I find these concerns of fear very interesting. As a gay parent I have had these same fears from day one of the adoption process (back when it was 'easy') and
probably will have forever. Eight years ago I was scared to death to go to Guatemala. The day before I left I found myself asking if I was willing to die for this. My fear for my daughter if I DIDN'T go was greater and my love for her stronger than any fear I had so off I went. So the fear can be very real for some but the reality of this situation is probably more like: 'All we have to fear is fear itself'.

Hey Amy,
I think my comment was taken out of context. My son is proud of his Guatemalan heritage and my seoond will be proud of his. I WOULD NEVER TELL MY CHILDREN THAT!!!! We attend monthly Guat Picnics in our bay area, and have huge network of playmates from Guatemala. We have already taken him back once and he not even three yet! I am also a moderator of local yahoo group for GuAT CHILCREN. So I would never hide the fact of where my children are from.
If you read my comment more carefully (or I needed to explain myself more clearly. )
I was responding to Michelle's comment, where parents are backing out of taking their children on a heritage trip to Guatemala.
What I was saying with this "mass hysteria" That if Parents are backing out of taking their children back to Guatemala, how far would this Mass Hysteria go? I know of people who are afriad to bring their children back to Guatemala. In my humble opinion I can see some Parents being so afraid, that will not tell people outside of their circle knowing that their children are from Guatemala? Let face it, some people are panic in mode,
Calling The DOS, cxl their family vacations.
If I offended anyone with my comment, that was not my intent

Shawn
Proud Guat Father.

Shawn, OK, fair enough, lol. I totally get your point. My point was that by even stating that comment about not telling someone youre from Guat, that sadly, someone may read that and actually do that. Thats where I was going with it. So to even see a comment like that scares me a little. And you're quite right, some are in panic mode central. It is very sad, I feel quite badly for them.

Shawn - I can see what you mean about mass hysteria concerning not telling people that your children are from Guatemala. However, I don't think it's fair to call it "panicking" or "mass hysteria" if I would rather not bring my son who is adopted from Guatemala at this point. Not to see that I won't do it later, but right now with the adoption controversy, I'm not comfortable with it.

Thanks Amy for explaining your point of view.
Have a good weekend

shawn

I also do not think it is fair for parents to be judged if they decide not to travel to Guatemala at this time, and it does not mean they will not do a birth country visit in the future. It just means they have a lot of people feelings
to consider such as siblings, grandparents and other people who might traveling with them. Also, when I say birth country visit I am talking about visiting our child's small birth city outside of Gutemala City and Antiqua where there might have been anti-adoption feelings in the past months and that can be very intimidating.

As of right now we are planning on visiting Guatemala, but I don't think is it "panicking" or "mass hysteria if others choose not to visit. They are just very concerned moms and dads trying to make the best decision they can for their families and we should repect that.

I, too, do not think it is right to call it mass panic. There are plenty of places in the world right now that I would not be comfortable taking a small child of any ethnicity. Unfortunately, Guatemala is one of them. I think we would all agree there are problems with organized crime and vigilante justice there. Add the adoption sentiment to the mix, and for us, this is not the right time for a birth country visit. I love Guatemala, and I want my daughter to experience Guatemala. I want her to go over and over again if she likes, with me, without me, with her family when she grows up. I don't think it is fair to call me panicked or say I am making a bad statement about her culture for wanting things to stabilize there a bit more before we go.

The question I have for y'all is that when you make references to htings being heated right now, waiting forhtem to calm down, etc, what do you mean?

NOTHING has happened. Things are clam right now so far as anyone visiting Guatemala is concerned.

There have been no reports of adoptive parents being hassled or harrassed.

Obviously everyone needs to comfortable with their own travel plans. I am just saying that this one quote in a paper should not be used to characterize things as being hostile or unstable for visiting.

Kevin
Guatadopt.com

Kevin,
I just mean in general. The agency we used isn't letting any one foster right now--they cite harrassment and general safety as reasons. There were four European tourists taken hostage last week on the coast and then released (not adoption related). Media reports talk about the escalation of organized crime. As far as adoption related concerns go, there have been reports on and off for the last year or more, some substantiated, some not, about harrassment outside the Marriott, inside the Marriott, other places in GC, etc. Kevin, I understand that you are a seasoned traveler and have been to Guatemala many times. You have friends and other connections there. You speak Spanish. I am not well traveled, I do not speak Spanish and have no friends or anyone else there other than the Embassy to turn to if we ran into a problem. In your shoes, I may feel better about taking a trip there right now. However, my feelings about this predate the latest Casa Quivira article. Trust me, if I have to move heaven and earth, my daughter will get to Guatemala at some point before she is a teenager. I look forward to this trip and dream about the places we will see, the places we will go, and the questions she may have. I, personally, don't feel it is the right time. These are not concerns I am burdening my daughter with, hence I see it in no way as disparaging her birth country. I am just saying that we are going to wait a few years, and see what the situation is like then. It is a parenting decision her father and I have made after much reasoned thought and consideration. Please do not second guess our parenting decisions. I am respectful of your decision, as a parent, to take your children there. Please respect my decision.

Kevin - for me it's not just the comment in the newspaper. I'm concerned about the anti-adoption sentiment especially with the recent changes in the Guatemala adoption procedures. I don't want my son nor I to be subjected to people in Guatemala thinking that perhaps our adoption is "illegal" in some way, and then perhaps acting on that thought to hurt us. I know it's unlikely, but it's very obvious looking at Edwin and me, that he's not my biological son. Hopefully in a year or so, international adoption from Guatemala won't be such a hot subject, and I'll feel safer.

Now that the Easter holiday is over, is anything happening in Guatemala? I have had no news of my case moving since January. Is the PGN back in business?

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