Thank you for sharing, Kevin. We describe our home as one similar to the "United Colors of Beneton" as I am Irish-Catholic, my husband is Jewish, my daughter is bi-racial and our son, who we brought home three weeks ago, is from Guatemala. We are proud of all of the heritage and history in our family and have and will continue to encourage the understanding of all backgrounds as it truly makes each of us special.
That said, I have to share an experience in the airport when bringing our son home - it shows how truly insensitive some people are to the children. After going through Immigration I went to find my husband, who was at an airline counter, ensuring all was accurate with our final leg/flight home, and the woman at the counter looked at our son and said "Oh, you got a "pretty one"." I, who am normally outspoken, was mortified and shocked and actually could think of nothing to say as I truly could not believe how she had just reffered to our son...I guess that was just the beginning of the opportunities we may experience but I can honestly say they are all worth it as we are so happy to finally have him home and love him more than words can express...
Anyway, thanks again and thanks, too, for this site and the sound-board it provides.

Anti-Racist Parent is a great site, but I defnitely rolled my eyes when they took your quote out of context and turned it into something that it was not. While the site is full of good info and thought-provoking writings, there is a frequent disapproval of inter-county, inter-racial adoptive parents.

Particularly in this presidential election year, the many causes of immigration are important to consider. Thousands come here after filling out mountains of paperwork, paying huge fees, and waiting years and years for approval. Some come to this country in the arms of their proud, adoptive parents, who've paid many thousands of dollars for the privilege of bringing them home. Others make their way here surreptitiously, sneaking across rivers and through deserts before ending up in a strange place with a job that most Americans aren’t interested in doing.

There are many different points of view regarding how to fix our country’s broken immigration system. I simply ask readers of this site to consider that when you see the busboys in restaurants, the roofers and laborers on construction sites, and the gardeners and landscapers… that you understand that they may very well be related to your adopted child. And it might well be that the reason that they are here is indirectly the same reason that your child is here. Economic reality, and the dream of a better life --- despite a system that works against them.

Gregg - Amen!!!! And I'll add that when you see that Ladino person or family who seems out of place, reach out a helping hand. Instead of complaining about those who seem not to assimilate, try to help bring them into your community!

Krystal - While I was surpised when I first saw the thrad on my quote, I was not upset or offended by it. When the Mother jones story came out, I was a bit disappointed at where it was stuck in the story. But I can totally understand how somebody reading it could have misinterpreted it. And for what it's worth, Elizabeth Larsen did not put my quote in there in that manner. It's just those darn editors! For anyone interested, that thread can be found here: http://www.antiracistparent.com/2007/10/30/is-adoption-the-antithesis-to-oppression/..

Kevin
Guatadopt.com

Gregg, you make an excellent point. Most birth families have relatives in the US (foster families, too) and many of the workers may come from the same town or village as adopted children.

I'm under the impression that Latinos climb the social ladder pretty quickly. For example, I think it is pretty common for the second or third generation to go to college. I have a friend who immigrated from Mexico who only has a 6th grade education. Her 15 year old daughter is attending an Academy where she will have copmleted enough college level material so that she will only have to go to college 2 more years to get a bachelors. I named my daughter after her daughter :)

Cheryl,

I totally know it is not your intent but I have to say your post struck me wrong as being very much a generalization.

As someone who grew up in Southern California, you are right that many ladinos have "moved up". It is a great testament to our country that with hard work people can excel. But I can also say that if it were not for amnesty being offered in the past, this would not have been possible (I speak from experience as someone who worked with MANY undocumented workers).

This does not change the reality of racism. It's not saying the system won't allow our kids to succeed. It's saying that they will always be viewed differently. If they for instance shoplift, they'll be more likely to get busted. And if they do, they'll be less likely to get a slap on the wrist.

How often have you been speaking to someone and they refer to someone based on their ethicity by saying "this black guy Joe" or something like that. You never refer to someone as "that white guy Joe". Every action African American Joe takes, if he lives in a white community, will be judged somewhat as being because of his color. But when white Joe does the same thing, it will just be how Joe is.

Like I said, I know Cheryl meant no harm. But statistics and socioeconomic facts show that we are from being an equal society.

Kevin
Guatadopt.com

Kevin,

I don't disagree that there is a far amount of racism. My first husband was an immigrant from Mexico. He definitely received unfair treatment at the hands of the police on one occassion. I know of another instance of a Latin straight A highschool student who was beat up by the police when he was just standing on the corner of one of the "good neighborhoods."

I once heard an engineer who volunteered as a police officer say that he was disappointed he hadn't had an opportunity to beat someone up while policing in a predominantly Latin area of town.

BUT I think the statistics still show that a far number of Latins do go to college by the 2nd or 3rd generation. Statistics are statistics. Saying that doesn't mean it is easy or that they always get a fair shake. My statement is not in conflict with what you said.

I have had tons of African American and Latin friends. Most of them were not from the middle class. Well, a fair number of my caucasian friends haven't been middle class either.

Something I was thinking about (and this isn't in response to Kevin because I was thinking about this before Kevin's post) I once had a discussion about racism with a Jewish guy that grew up in Yonkers NYC. He said (and I tend to agree with him) that a lot of what middle class caucasions consider to be politically correct is actually a bit racist because many of their notions of politically correctness do not allow for diversity. I'll give you an example. His friends of color called him "Turkey" and he called them "Chocolate." Now they all understood that they weren't racist because they knew eachother well and knew that saying these things was only in good fun. My AFrican American friends had a lot of names for eachother and they gave me at least 3 names. ha ha ha.

I think we need to be careful about jumping to conclusions about people's statements being racist because after all we aren't mind readers. AS one person pointed out to me once, when someone says something that sounds funny it is a good thing to double check with them as to what they meant. No one is capable of screening all of their words all of the time so that everything one says sounds just right to everyone.

Kindest Regards, Cheryl

cheryl

with respect - racism is not simply a class issue. Predjudice may be open or 'polite', aggressive or 'built into the system'. I think it's great that many people get to access education, but that does not mean that racism is not an issue for them.

and no, it's not possible to be a mind reader - but it is possible to keep an open and sensitive mind - it is one thing for someone from a particular group to 'appropriate' certain terms for their own expression, but a completely different thing for someone in a more advantaged position (ie white etc) to use that term.

and many people hide behind humour to cause offense - 'i was only joking', 'i didn't mean it that way' - i think Kevin's point is simply that racism does still exist and we do our children no favours if we think it does not

MK,

You started off with "cheryl with respect-" which gives me the impression that you think you are about to say something that differs with what I said. I didn't say that racism is simply a class matter, I didn't say that prejudice can't be open or that it can't be built into the system, I didn't say that racism isn't an issue for educated people, I didn't say a lot of things that I'm getting the feeling you think I said. I write a paragraph maybe 4-5 paragrahs and somehow I get the feeling that people think I should have addressed all of these other topics as well. It isn't my intention to address all topics. Just because I didn't address them doesn't mean that I'm negating them.

Yes people can hide behind humor but we also need to be careful about jumping to conclusions and being overly sensitive. I have frequently seen middle class caucasians be very uncomfortable around African Americans who are joking around because their jokes don't conform to Caucian American's notions of political correctness. Yet I know that the African Americans involved are very good hearted people. Sometimes the joking was mean. Sometimes it was very mean, but usually it wasn't.

Now just because I gave this particular example of racism, don't jump to conclusions about me and start lecturing me as to what you think I'm all about because you really don't know me very well. Actually you basically don't know me at all. I know that racism and bigotry comes in lots of different forms.

If you want to say something, say it for yourself instead of reacting to me.

Regards, Cheryl

Cheryl

I did not jump to conclusions about you. I really did not feel I was lecturing you. I was simply responding on a thread topic, as you did to Kevin's post. My comments are about my thoughts and not in reaction to you personally on any level.

I am glad we both agree that racism and bigotry come in many different forms. I stand by my opinion that members of a group who experience discrimination (eg African Americans in your example) can and do 'reclaim' language for themselves. That is nothing to do with political correctness. Often (in my experience) people who complain about political correctness are people who simply want the 'right' to have their intolerance tolerated. None of this is cut and dried. That is why I really value Kevin posting the link to the anti-racist parent website. I want to learn more and more on this topic - to educate myself, to open my mind, to read about people's experience of racism & how they dealt with it - because this affects my child.

Maintaining that awareness of racism is important for me as a parent. I hope that I can equip my daughter to deal with racism when she meets it or prejudice towards others when she sees/hears it.

I aspire to give her the tools to respond to others as she would like to be responded to.

MK

In a doctor's office today, I told a woman who was obviously curious, that my son was born in Guatemala. In a very friendly way, she told me that he looks similar to the children of a Guat couple that she knows- the mom cleans her house and the dad is her gardner. I can't explain why exactly, but that makes me chuckle.

Lauren,

Thanks for sharing that. I grew up in rural Nebraska. My uncle Jerry married an African American woman named Malcia. The whole family accepted the marriage and loved Malcia.

When Jerry and Malcia came to visit, my 80 year old uncle Wally said, this may sound terrible but I don't know what the proper term is to refer to her-black, negro, ...

This just goes to show you that it is important to take in the whole picture rather than responding to a few words people utter.

I suspect that this couple's body language and many things they said showed that they had positive feelings about your son and your adopting from Guatemala but some of the things they said indicated they didn't have much experience with this sort of thing and didn't know the poltical correct ways of responding. It makes me chuckle too :)

Best, Cheryl

After reading ALL of the comments, I have to giggle at how much time you have to comment back and forth ( I have 2 children that keep me plenty busy from Guatemala ages 1 and 3). I am of Italian decent grew up in a small town and was very much accepted ( the only minority in 50 miles). Never did I feel out of place. My parents are caucasian and you have to stop and think who are the minority in today's society?? The white caucasians. Are they ready to be of the smallest population? I don't think it is our worry about Guatamalan children not fitting in, the caucasians need to get ready!

MCS,

I will do my best to remain fair and calm. But are you kidding me? Italian as a minority? Get serious here. Do you watch the news? How can you suggest any comparison between Italians and Ladinos?

I'm not sure what you mean at the end. The fact is that this is a caucasian run society. We have the money and we have the power.

With no sarcasm intended I hope that your kids run the straight and narrow path. Because we all need to know the additional challenges our children WILL face.

Speak to some African American or Latinos. Learn about the real prejudices that they face. Look at the criminal justice statistics.

I'm sorry but IMHO you have it all wrong and I hope that you discover that in a subtle way before you have a huge reckoning.

Kevin
Guatadopt.com

MCS, you might have been in the minority as an Italian in the Midwest (especially if you are Catholic) but you were certainly not a minority. I grew up in the Northeast and I never heard any Italia refer to him or herself as a minority.

Racism is alive and well and it crosses all class lines. I once had a discussion with an African American who grew up in Asheville, NC. At the time he was attending the University of Pennsylvania.

He spoke of how there were white and black neighborhoods in Asheville and there was the understanding that you never stayed past 7pm in the "wrong" neighborhood. Yet, he said he could handle that more easily than the very subtle bigotry he felt he faced at Penn. Mind you, he was prep-school educated and one of the most articulate people I have ever met and very obviously of a privileged background. Yet even at at Ivy League school, where he very much belonged from an intellectual perspective, he was still the object of racism.

I am one of those people who looks at my daughter and never thinks "minority". I know I have to be very cognizant of the problems she may face and make a concerted effort to give her the tools to deal with racism. Unofortunately, I don't think I will live to be in a society in which racism doesn't exist.

In the interest of fairness to MCS, I’ll give her the benefit of the doubt and assume that she was trying to be funny. Unfortunately, it didn’t work. MCS, likely there’s little about Italian ethnicity that would set you apart in a crowd, and it’s been a very long time in the United States since there was open discrimination of Italians.

To frame things in historical perspective, in the early part of the last century many Americans were alarmed at the influx of “undesirable” immigrants – primarily Catholics and Jews – from Italy, Poland, and Eastern Europe. In 1921 Congress passed the Emergency Quota Act, establishing a nationality quota system for the first time and imposing strict numerical limits on European immigration. Immigration by Italians, Poles, and Eastern Europeans plummeted 75% from previous years. Today, many assert that the answer to keeping out the latest wave of (admitedly illegal) immigrants is to build walls and to force mass deportations.

MCS, if your 2 Guatemalan children look anything at all like mine, it will be obvious to anyone that they are of Hispanic heritage. Brace yourself for the day when you realize that they have been followed around with suspicion while shopping in a retail store, or given intentionally poor service in a restaurant… or even been pulled over for “driving while Latino” in a white-majority neighborhood. You began to make a valid point in your post when you asked if the “white caucasians” (sic) are ready to be of the smallest population. There there may come a time when our entire nation has a non-Caucasian plurality comprised of many different ethnic groups… a true “melting pot” if ever there was one.

Perhaps all we need do is look at the historic immigration of Italians, Poles, and Eastern Europeans to determine if immigration of distinct ethnic groups is good or bad. My family came to Massachusetts Bay Colony in 1635 when the ethnic majority on this continent was Native American. Clearly, times have changed.

I could go on and write about the "white privlege" I enjoy by benefit of my pink skin,and to discuss the instituionalized racism that defines American society. But I'm afraid that my already-too-long post would take pages and pages.

MCS,

As i have stated in a previous post, I grew up in rural Nebraska. Most of the people I grew up with were of German, Scandinavian or East European backgrounds. We had one Italian family at our school :) They did stick out to a certain extent but I feel certain that the treatment they received does not compare to what many Latinos or African Americans experience even in cities that have a large percentage of Latinos or African Americans.

Case in point, I now live in SAn Jose CA which has a lot of Latinos. Yet my Mexican born first husband experienced bad treatment at the hands of the police. I also know of a straight A Latino high school student who was beat up by the police when all he was doing was standing on the corner of a "nice" neighborhood. Thirdly, I know a police volunteer who lamented that he hadn't had an opportunity to beat any body up yet in the predominantly Latin neighborhood he volunteered in.

The number of Latinos is greater than that of any other group in San Jose but they definitely are on the receiving end of a fair amount of bad treatment.

Wishing you best of luck, Cheryl

I have to say this post has left me a bit speechless. I really do hope you understand two words...institutionalized racism.
No matter how many latinos "take over" the country my dear, making caucasians, as you put it so eloguently... "the minority", the sad reality is that institutionalized racism exists.

Though your children are only 1 and 3 years old of age, let me give you some advice and a peak at their future, from the perspective of someone who was not born in the US, myself. I came to America when I was two years old, I have lived here for 45 years, and had an affluent upbringing, attained a MA degree (Phd on hold, still working on the dissertation), and coming from a long line of well-education family members with Phd, doctors, lawyers and land owners. I have taught for over 20 years from young children to adults, I speak without an accent, I write perfect English, I teach multicultural education on the university level to graduate students, I live in the the 2nd wealthiest town in my state, and we faced the ugly face of racism in this day and age when trying to enroll our daughter in school, papers were asked to see if she was "legal", we were told to have her come back when she learned English. This didn't happen in the 19th century my dear, but in 2007. When I confronted the person opposed to enrolling our daughter, her words will haunt me all my life, she told me, "listen we have had foreigners like you here before." So no matter how much you give or how hard you work, or how long you have lived in this country, your ethniciy of being Latino, like your children are, will one day also face the ugly truth of institutionalized racism. Sad day to read what you wrote.
Marie, Guatadopt.com

Marie,

All I can say is "wow." I think you have grounds for sueing that school district. Maybe even several grounds. Discrimination, denying a child's right to an eduation,... Big virtual hug to you.

I have to say that I feel I have been extremely fortunate so far. I have had my daughter for 5 months. I'm very open that she is adopted and that she was adopted from Guatemala. People have been overwhlemingly positive so far. But I know there will come a time when something negative happens.

I would really like to hear from people strategies on dealing with racism. Maybe share some experiences and how you handled them. Or share things you have read on how to handle them.

Cheryl

I do want to say one other thing from my experience growing up in rural midwest. There is a lot of variation from one small town to another. MCS may live in a small town where there is very little bigotry. In small towns, the police know everyone so if your adopted Latin child is driving around, they know exactly who they are and have probably known that child for a long time. So it is an environment where there wouldn't be as many problems as what you see in many large cities that are even known for having relatively low levels of discrimination.

Hope I'm being clear in what I'm saying.

Best, Cheryl

Thanks, but no hugs needed. Apparently the issue with this school was going on for awhile, as other parents of ICA kids pointed out to me, so I was not the first and only, but hopefully the last to experience double-standards as civil rights orgs were contacted and a retraction on their part was made. A little to late for us though, who in their right mind wants to be part of an unwelcoming school district. So we are moving.

As for those of you who think it will not happen to you, if you never leave the secure unbiased block or town that you think you live in, which I doubt that your child will just stay there forever, you child at some point will encounter racism. Besides institutionalized racism, the term "tracking" is something that PAPs should familiarize themselves with, as many school districts still practice this.

I strongly suggest that PAPs not only take some multicultural workshops, but also read up on the Latin American experience in the US. Marie, Guatadopt.com

To answer the emails I have been getting asking what tracking is,
the quickest definition of tracking is what occurs in the public school systems that groups children based on ability, socioeconomic factors and race. See link for overall idea and laws passed: http://www.latinalista.net/palabrafinal/2007/06/from_the_senate_to_the_supreme_court_a_b.html

Let me take a sec to explain further. What education is lacking is exactly this idea of creating an environment where minority students are pushed to create aspirations for themselves. Not only are higher education institutions failing this group of people, but elementary and secondary education as well.

The success of Latinos in higher education depends largely on their success in elementary and secondary education, yet elementary and secondary institutions depend heavily on higher education to provide knowledgeable teachers and administrators. This is a cycle, that both depend on the other.

Although the population is growing rapidly, the academic success of Latinos is not. Latinos are falling behind academically due to several reasons: low expectations by school personnel, unprepared personnel to deal with this segment of the population, limited amount of organization between the families and schools, poverty, the tracking of Latinos into non-academic courses because they do not know what else to do with them, limited English proficiency, low numbers of Latinos in early childhood programs, the isolation from resources, and the fact that most Latinos are attending poverty stricken public schools.

A child who brings another language to the classroom is just not valued in this country. What I taught in the university is showing eduators the need to prepare students to compete, while valuing their culture and language. If you have high expectations for a child, they will have high expectations. Remember I grew up in NYC and had latino teachers and come from an educated family. These factors contributed to my success. Many APs live in predominantly white areas, where this child will be viewed always as Latino, whether the APs see this or not.

What we cannot neglect is the drop-out rate of Latino students. Startingly to say the least. Right now, one out of three Latino students drop-out, and account for 90 percent of the immigrants who drop-out of school in this country. This is not a random act. Many young Latinos do not see this as the 'land of opportunity' and do not believe the 'American dream' is for them. So why bother?

In order to combat the high drop-out rate, all schools need proper support services, mentoring and tutorial programs and a sense of place where Latinos can interact with students who are more like them than not. Creating a mulitcultual school and classroom. Mostly what happens is the day before MLK day, a MLK poster goes up and the next day it comes down.

In a democracy, there is a value in highly educated citizens. The right idea is the education of all. The wrong idea is that people are here illegally, therefore do not educate them or that those who do not speak English nor were not born here, need not be educated equally. As well as anyone not born in the US is not as good or as smart. This country has a well deserved reputation as having the best higher education institutions, yet we are failing in the details of educating all. There are more than 35 million Latinos in the United States, this a low count if you ask me.

We have a long road ahead of us.
Marie, Guatadopt.com

I found the postings and the article interesting. I am happy to see that as AP we are discussing and learning about the Latino experience in the United States. The post Marie wrote about education is one we should all pay attention to.

I am married to a man who was born in Venezuela, to a Cuban father and a Spanish mother. I am also about to start a Masters program in Cultural Anthropogy- I study the African Diaspora in Latin America. I would like to share what happened to our family this year when we chose to place our children in public school, it illustrates Marie's post.

Our youngest son Marcos has ADHD and we thought that the public school would have more resources to handle his issues. Our biological children do not have as much pigmentation as our Guatemateca,our oldest Ricardo has blond hair and blue eyes. My husband is olive skinned with green eyes, I am medium tone with brown hair and green/brown eyes- my grandmother was Cherokee. I am describing our family to show how skin color is not always a factor in prejudice behavior.

From the beginning the Spanish language was an issue. I had forgotten not to tell them that Spanish is spoken in our home. I understand that some children do go to school without knowledge of the English language and that testing is needed. Our children at this time are not fluent, my husband wanted them to speak English first. After convincing the school that they were not fluent we proceded with regestration.

Marcos eventually was put on plan for IEP testing to see if he qualified. During the process the language teacher- who by the way could not find language issues with Marcos- asked about Spanish in our home. I told her that the children are fluent in English and that we are starting Spanish. They watch cartoon channels etc,in Spanish and we are speaking more at home. She told me that we should stop teaching Spanish at this time.I told her that we would continue to speak it if there were no notable delays or negative effects on our children. She did not like that. After speaking with educators and other professionals outside of the school we feel that we made a good decision. Later in a IEP meeting we were asked again about Spanish in the home. I told them we are trying to teach the childen Spanish and will be getting a tutor this summer or go to an immersion school in Latin America. My husband has not been as good speaking Spanish in the house, so I turned to him and told him in Spanish that he needed to speak more spanish in the house. I was then asked if I spoke Spanish, and if my parents spoke Spanish as well. I felt and still do that they were asking about my ethnicity, without openly asking. I told them I am still learning Spanish and that my family does not speak Spanish. They were in my opinion trying an easy fix to Marcos. Stick him in ESOL and their problem is over. They also have showed a lack of knowledge of ADHD, so they do not know what to do with him, and do not want our participation in his education.

I think we as AP need to not retreat into the mind set that it is silly to think and discuss the negative effects that prejudice WILL have on our childrens' lives. That type of mentality is not going to help your childen over come the obstacles that are in their path. Just my childrens' names, first and last, that show their ethinic background will cause some one to judge them before they meet them. It is not just a skin color issue with the prejudice toward Hispanics, the whole culture is up for grabs when prejudice strikes,that goes for any culture. If you are different then there must be something wrong with you. I tell my children that different is good, and we cannot all be the same, wouldn't that be boring?The school my children attend does not think different is good.
We got an A school with an F attitude. They could not get it out of their head that bilingualism is not a contagious disease.

If you still think that the ugly prejudice monster only lands on the doorstep of the poor and uneducated, you need to wake up. My husband is a US educated, trained physician and has encountered the monster.

It is time we open and discuss racism. Unlike bilingualism, racism does seem to be contagious and feeds on anger and ignorance. It is found all over the world, and causes more wars and kills more people.
Racism is more than just against skin color, although that is the most common way it is used. It is also against anyone who you do not like do to their skin color or ethnic origins. It is not to be confused with ethnocentric behavior. Which is the feeling that one's own culture is superior to anothers. That can lead to racism, but mostly it does not. We tend to view other cultures through our own and make judgements based on that. It is better to view others with an open mind.

Sorry Marie, but you have "touched" a chord.

With all due respect, a lot of what you write regarding public education does not represent “public” education as a whole. As a public educator for eleven years and one nearing an administrative certificate, I cannot recall one instance where students in our district or neighboring districts have been viewed and tracked based on “race,” “socioeconomic reasons,” or “ability,” unless of course you consider special education as a tracking program.

And, the success of ALL students in higher education, regardless of ethnicity is directly related to their experiences in learning at the elementary/secondary levels. This is NOT specific to race, socioeconomic status, etc….. The ONLY correlating factor that can be found between home and school and its effect on academic success is “whether or not the child has a desk in their home.” I can’t cite the studies off the top of my head, but this correlation transcended any and all other “factors,” including race, poverty, gender, etc….. The only correlating factor between high achieving secondary institutions and student success is high achieving elementary systems. Once again, this has nothing to do with the “type” of student present.

As with any list of reasons, there is a debatable hierarchy of importance. You put “low expectations by school personnel” as your first reason and follow it up with school centric explanations for the reasons Latinos are failing disproportionately – to whom? African Americans, those in the “deep south,” others.

“A child who brings another language to the classroom is just not valued in this country.” I’m sorry Marie, but this is offensive to me as dedicated teacher. It is a “blanket” statement that we have fought hard to curtail in other debates.

“Many APs live in predominantly white areas, where this child will be viewed always as Latino, whether the APs see this or not.” Although the first part of this statement is likely accurate, the second is completely opposite what I have personally seen and experienced in elementary education, and the same goes for my wife in secondary education. Contrary to your post, we as educators teach “students,” not race, not poor, not gender.

Maybe we are fortunate and living in the “promise land,” but our area thrives because of diversity and responsiveness to change.

If we as a group of “Adoptive Parents” look for a problem, we are assured of finding one. So, don’t waste your time looking. And, I resign from being an AP – I am simply a P, nothing more nothing less.

Troy

OH MY GOODNESS! If I thought my comments would have caused this much reply-I wouldn't have written 1 thing. ALL I was wanting to SAY was-there being so many different mixtures of backgrounds these days, all white "caucasians" aren't multiplying much to continue the race. * Not only do I have 2 adopted younger children, but I do have an 18 year old adopted girl from Africa. Fourteen adopted cousins (which pretty much makes up the entire world of countries). Last time I counted 10 African-American/Russian cousins, and my one husband is latino/african mix. We don't live in a small town nor do the relatives. My husband/I don't get looks ( since society is liberal) and we've been married for 15+ years. None that I know have been arrested for anything except speeding.
*Oh, by the way, our oldest has been homecoming queen ( high school of 1,769), and senior class president.

I hope I have explained myself a little.

Troy- I am responding to you here, as you chose to respond publically to me.

I cannot begin to tell you how disappointing reading what you wrote. I don't think it was fair to me. I made no personal attacks on no one in my statements. You chose otherwise in your response and I cannot help but feel offended, as the tone of your mail was so harsh.

I do appreciate your insight, as I always find it amusing when a non-Latino tells a Latino about the Latino experience and the way things are...really. I akin it to a male telling a female what the female experience is in America. I will take your advice and make sure not to look for biases, as that way there won't be none...YEAH, RIGHT!

I am sure that there were people sitting on the front of the bus that thought it was a nice ride, luckily one brave woman said it wasn't.

Troy not only offended me, but mostly affected so many minority children whose families will take what he said and believe it is
that way and not say a word.

Marie, Guatadopt.com

MCS - I think many of us (including me) didn't quite get what you were wanting to say the first time. Where we live, we see so many more mixed families which means less "interested" stares. I am often a little surprised at what other parents see...because its just not typical here.

I think experiences around the country DOES differ dramatically but that should not discount anyone else's experience. Troy - you know I hate blanket statements too...but I don't think that what you describe is typical either. When we talk about some things that happen, it may not be at the teacher level but at the system level. While we have some awesome teachers and some really well thought out programs HERE in North Atlanta, I still see that SOME kids (not fitting in a larger category) are pigeon holed into the wrong program.

We have a very large population of Hispanic children in this area who do not speak English until school age. While I've been impressed with some of the ESOL programs around here, I've also talked to some adoptive parents whose children were mistakenly placed in the wrong classes because of race. I've also seen children put in remedial classes when the issue was dyslexia or ADHD. And my friend whose daughter was reading WAY above the average Kindergartener was placed in a non-reading class for the entire year because of a pre-year assessment that was inaccurate. The assessment was understandable but the fact that no ongoing assessment CORRECTED the problem is just wrong IMHO. There was no flexibility to move her, no reassessment done by the teacher during the year, etc.

My biggest gripe with public education HERE is that it restricts the educator's ability to provide what is needed for a SPECIFIC child. We have to come up with shortcuts to tell them the magic formula to use and these rules often take common sense out of the equation. Unfortunately, SOME educators are too proud to admit when a *formula* is just plain wrong and try to accommodate the needs of the child.

Back to what our children will face...I've been lucky that my daughter's private school sees her as who she is....not try to take one characteristic and pigeon hole her! But a very few friends and acquaintances have made assumptions about her intelligence which I can only assume by other comments are racial assumptions. When I inquired with the public school system about assessments for 1st grade next year...I could tell that the person I talked to had already pigeon-holed as *Special Needs* when I mentioned she was from Guatemala EVEN though I told her that my daughter had been with me since a wee baby! That really bothered me since my daughter is doing quite well in Kindergarten reading Magic Treehouse herself and seems to be way ahead of the average student in our public school district. On top of that, the lady told me that she would have to RE-TAKE Kindergarten because she was days shy of the minimum age. From what I could see, she would not be accommodated for her level and I have reason to worry that she might be misinterpreted because of her race.

I have no doubt that many of the teachers in this public school are awesome (matter of fact....I know they are). But it seemed quite clear that it was going to be a struggle to have my daughter placed in the right classes...and I do think that race will be an issue.

Kelly, Guatadopt.com

I am the LAST person to think that racial bias is absent in the school systems across this country. And, I know it will continue until there is a paradigm shift from BOTH ends, not just the public school system. But, one glove does not fit all the hands of public education instructors and/or the educational system as a whole.

Should we as Ps be “prepared” for a fight, h**l yes! Should we search for a fight? – Absolutely not! Each of us has a bias toward something. If we “institutionalize” our children unneccesarily and create fear among parents to the mindset that all public school systems “will” discriminate against them, we are doing nothing but perpetuating the cycle.

Growth toward a common goal is about debating all sides of an issue and refraining from statements such as “all, will, never, etc..” Statements that leave no room for the debate of all the good that is occurring in public education stifles growth.

You are correct Kelly. Instructional and assessment flexibility is somewhat limited based on standards, testing, resources, and the list goes on. Even with this said, for every negative experience encountered by Ps, there is an equal number of positives. IMO, and this is solely based on my years of service, the good outweighs the negative. So, the last thing I want Ps to believe is that ALL education WILL be biased.

Troy, I would really like to see some of those references you mentioned in terms of "The ONLY correlating factor that can be found between home and school and its effect on academic success is “whether or not the child has a desk in their home.” I can’t cite the studies off the top of my head, but this correlation transcended any and all other “factors,” including race, poverty, gender, etc….."

I'm ready to be challenged. I volunteered for a year at a charter school in Columbia Heights (DC). Maybe what I thought was bias was simply the fact that kids weren´t trying hard enough and teachers were just stating the facts?

I am certainly no expert on the US educational system, so can only talk about what I saw during the length of my stay at a very specific place and context in the US. Would really like to read some more, particularly about the district where you teach. Sounds indeed like utopia. Your kids are fortunate.

I'm getting riled up reading this thread, so now I have to post something.
I hope that we all appreciate that the law is on our side, and that mostly people are horrified when they discover one of their coworkers or employees has shown racism. Where others see institutional racism I see a legal system that works in fighting such a thing. And I see, from my own personal experience, that people who discriminate lose all professional credibility and respect from their peers. As well they should.
Kelly, I had a similar experience with my Russian adopted son, at a private school. Even though he was qualified on skill and age (by 1 week) to move on from preschool to kindergarten, they held him back. IMO, they skewed the assessment to reach a foregone conclusion. Why they did this is anyone's guess, could be discrimination against an adoptee, could be because of his birthday, gender, they didn't like me personally, or they genuinely thought it was the best thing etc. The practice of holding back kids like ours is called academic redshirting, and it happens more to white middle-class males than any other group (mostly with parents' approval or insistence, although I disagreed strongly.) In fact everything I've read online calls it racist NOT to hold as many minority children back because it puts them at an unfair disadvantage against all the older white males in the class that were redshirted.
Everyone encounters jerks and unfairness. We're especially attuned for it at our children's schools because we take their education so seriously. I don't know of anyone that is 100% satisfied with their school. If I ever meet somebody that is I'll be suspicious that they don't care about their child's education!
I guess the point I want to make is that its easy to see prejudice and discrimination if you expect it. I know it does rear its ugly head...I'm not in denial. I just think its a fine line between instilling the confidence in our children to stand up for themselves and teaching them to have a chip on their shoulder or to expect victimization.

The comments about assumptions people make about kids with more than one language, especially if the language is spoken by a group with perceived academic difficulties, is true in my experience.

My son was home as a baby but is effectively bilingual in Spanish thanks to Spanish-language childcare. He's gone to preschool in increasing amounts since he was 2.

The first year, at the teacher conference, the teacher asked me whether he spoke English because he wasn't speaking in class, nor was he participating. I was quite stunned because at home, he spoke English just fine (for his age).

Each year, teachers have suggested that he's having difficulties because he's bilingual. The teachers also suggested he could be having X problem. Extensive testing, including in Spanish, found that he was perfectly fine, and even ahead in some areas.

This winter, preschool somehow started to click more and he's doing great.

I can't say it's a race issue per se because he has a good friend, also born in Guatemala, who attended the same preschool and did great.

But I am bracing myself potentially for kindergarten. The county recommends that children born outside the US go for testing at a special intake center -- it's designed for children whose first language is not English and their parents. I asked whether this included my son - they actually said yes, because he's bilingual. He can't be forced to do so, and I'm not planning to, because I do fear that it's a route right into ESOL.

FWIW, he's probably going to an immersion kindergarten in the fall and it will be interesting to see. I think schools really are trying to "help" in most instances, but they also make a lot of assumptions in the process that stereotype students.

Wow Lee, that's amazing. Sh*t, can't they tell he has no accent. Plus, haven't they ever heard of a shy child, as I know your son is!!!

Let me add this to all the fellow gringos out there. This is not all about schools and things where we will know what is happening. We gringos have not had the experience of being pulled over and harrrassed for "driving while black". We do NOT know the experience of minorities growing up and living in white-dominated communities. Forget about childhood for a moment and what most of us will face in the next few years. Think about teen and young adult years. Listen to the experiences of people who have been through this experience. Their experiences are REAL. We caucasians can debate whether folks take stuff too seriously or overreact. But we also must understand that there could be a reason for that, a reason we can't comprehend.

Kevin
Guatadopt.com

Suzanne-I do not not think I or anyone else is activley looking for racism or discrimination of any type. I mentioned what happended to our family to illustrate a point. My husband and I are not raising our children with "chips" on their shoulders and to expect racism to jump out at them from every corner. I think you misunderstand what is being discussed here. Like most white folks you assume that anytime someone complains about prejudice they were "looking for it". I can assure you in the case with my son's school I was not "looking for it". It happened and we moved on.
Discrimination is real,this country is not as bad as some. For instance in Venezuela, Pres. Chavez is called a monkey or red Gorilla daily. He is the first non- white President of Venezuela. Now I have alot of names for Chavez, but they do not play on his racial background.

The point is that we should be able to discuss racism without someone jumping in and saying we were just looking for it. It is unfair that someone who has not experienced the pain of racism tells someone else "you were just looking for it". There is a difference in looking for it and being prepared for it, so when it happens you know how to respond to make sure that it does not happen to the next person.

As for ESOL, I was told not to inform the school that Spanish is spoken at home or that one parent speaks it, from more than one Hispanic that has had to send an English speaking child to ESOL. I forgot not to mention it when I filled out our paperwork. I know of a child of Puerto Rican parents who was born in NY and attended school there in regular classroom and when her family moved to Florida she was put in ESOL for a while.

I hope that someday we can be open enough to discuss racism without others declaring "you were looking for it". Only then can we move forward and grow. Yes, there are laws and those who break the laws are punished and ostracized. The point is those laws are there because there are still people in the world filled with hate.

By the way there is a new book out by Geraldo Rivera, called His panic, a play on Hispanic.

I signed my last post La chica de Missouri. I have a new one this time.

Kristi

Kristi,

I am not trying to deny that you experienced what you did or say that you "were looking for it". I said there is a fine line between teaching our children to stand up for themselves (against racism) and teaching them to have a chip on their shoulder. And it is a fine line. An especially difficult one to navigate as a caucasian parent of an hispanic child. And I wanted to point out an experience where I could have read more into the situation than existed. I did not mean to say your experience was like that, and if that's how it came across I apologize.
Kevin,
White people debate what is racism and what isn't because our experience is from a different point of view. But it is REAL too, and IMO the caucasian point of view is just as valid and important as the hispanic when discussing race. I'm not trying to say caucasians are more victimized, or say that racism doesn't exist. I am NOT in denial that racism exists, or that several people reading this have been subjected to it, or that we need to prepare our children for it. I'm just musing online about where that fine line exists, because I'm worried if I try to teach my hispanic daughter how to stand up to it I'll instead make her hypersensitive to any rudeness she encounters.

Suzanne, Troy and others-
I truly wish your child never experiences racism, biases or discrimination. But in all honestly that is a big wish that alot of people in this country and in many parts of the world have been working on to erdicate for a long time and overcome this.

So you ask how to teach your child to stand up to it? How to prepare them? What to do you ask? Well, you see first of all everything begins at home and that is where racism is first taught and racism is also first learned.

Maybe if a child hears about an injustice the child will be taught to listen and not judge quickly, they will be taught to stand up together and to not to demean the speaker, they will be taught not to dismiss the person sharing the event and not say that they have a chip on their shoulder or are hypersensitive or accuse the person who has had a bias or discrimiatory event that they are using the racial card as an excuse. This isn't a question of who has a valid point of view, this is the simple fact that discrimination is wrong. It is very hard to bring a person who doesn't see this to the point that they do see this. Depending on the severity of the discrimination, there are civil rights organizations that can intervene, like the NAACP and LULAC. But unfortantely, on the lowest levels, like hurtful words, it is only parents that can serve as an example of righteous behavior. Yes dear friends a very long road ahead.
Marie, Guatadopt.com

I'd like to share something interesting. It pertains to sexism instead of racism but I think in light of our discussions it is pretty interesting. There are a lot of studies to try to get to the bottom of the extent of sexism (and also racism) but I always thought that one of the best tests would be for a person to live as a man and then as a woman so that they could compare the experiences. Of course, this person would have to totally pass as a man and then totally pass as a woman. Well, it has been done. I met a woman who was born as a man and had had a sex change operation (also referred to as an M to F). Most M to F's don't pass as genetic women after their sex change oeprations, but some do totally pass and no one would suspect that this person had ever been a man. She is an information technology specialist so works in a predominantly male field. She testified before the california legislation that the difference between how men and women are treated is EXTREME and PERVASIVE. Quite informative.

Troy, I think your point is that you feel that Marie made a black white statement concerning the education system, such as there is always racism. Since you work in the educational field, that would be a sore point with you. Marie, I think your point is that you feel Troy is minimizing the extent of racism.

Is it possible that the two of you are having a misunderstanding and in actuality you agree on more than you realize?

Best, Cheryl

I would really like to hear some concrete examples of how people have dealt with racism. I have a couple of examples that are related but do not totally pertain to being a caucasian parent of a Latin child, but I'll go ahead and share them in the spirit of getting the discussion going.

As I have shared before, I was married to a man of Mexican descent. There was a woman who I knew was going to make a negative remark about him being Latin AND G-d forbide Catholic. I wanted to be prepared to respond to her without letting her get me riled up. I was seeing a therapist at the time and I asked his advice on how to handle this situation in a way that achieved my purpose (not let her get my goat). He said, "When she says, 'he is Latin and CAtholic' you can reply with something outrageous like 'Ya but he isn't gay or a cross dresser' " I guess his point was that by replying with something ridiculous I would be deflecting her but also showing how ridiculous she was being in the first place. Sure enough she made the expected negative remark. I replied "Ya but he isn't gay or a cross dresser." She laughed and the subject was absolutely dropped.

Another situation was related to me by a friend who is a caucasian mother to a bi-racial daughter. This friend has a PhD in psychology from Harvard. A boy was telling her daughter, "That woman isn't your mother and I don't think you have a daddy." Her daughter came to her and told her what the boy was saying. She went over to the boy and said, "So do you have any questions for me about my daughter?" THe boy's eyes got big and he was speechless. She went on, "I am her mother and she has a father that lives in New York."

Like I said, these don't totally apply to our discussion but I'm sharing in the spirit of getting the conversation going on this. I'd really like to hear some concrete examples of ways that people have successfully dealt with this kind of situation.

Best, Cheryl

I don't mean to sound negative or for anyone to misunderstand, but let our children be themselves and let it alone.
Pray and let God take care of them. Trust Him.

I agree with the comment-racism is taught in the home. Just like when they are at school (unless they are home-schooled, not everyone is going to be their friend and he/she will need to fight their own battles. I too am an educator & see this on a daily basis. As well as having my own teens.

I apologize for the length of this, but this is a story that should be told. While I know that most teachers are honorable and have noble intentions, my good friend experienced the worst that public schools can offer. I will add that our homestudy and post-placement social worker told us that there are teachers who have very low expectations for black and Latino kids but have high expectations for white and Asian kids. I never worried about it when she first told us that. But now we believe it. We are friends with a wonderful Brazilian family who came to the USA six years ago. They own a home in a very wealthy school district on the East coast. The husband is an engineering manager at a large international company. Their five year old daughter is brilliant, extremely well behaved, confident, and very mature for her age. She was reading chapter books in English before her fifth birthday. She speaks English beautifully and clearly and she is also fluent in Portuguese and Spanish. Unfortunately, when her parents registered her for school, they said that she was trilingual and that their first language was Portuguese. She passed the ESOL test with flying colors. They asked for morning kindergarten. They were shocked when she was placed in an afternoon kindergarten with ESOL students. She would offer to help other kids in the class who were confused or didn’t understand what was happening in class because of their limited English skills. Instead of appreciating her help, her teacher was so nasty to her that the poor child was having nightmares. Please keep in mind this is the most calm and confident child we have ever known and she has never been rattled like this before. The teacher labeled her as a trouble maker. My friend found out that there were open slots in the morning kindergarten and asked why her daughter had been denied a slot. The principal was even more unreasonable, inappropriate, and blatantly racist. Upon hearing about this horrible situation, an Indian-born neighbor told my friend that the same thing happened to their child and he said they found out the hard way that you should never say another language is spoken in the home when you register for schools in that district. The neighbor said he had to send his child to kindergarten at a private Montessori school, otherwise his daughter would have been in ESOL. My friend went to her bilingual pediatrician and asked what she should do. He had always been impressed with her daughter’s behavior and cognitive abilities. He told her that some of his other patients had received the same treatment by the local public school system. He wrote a letter of recommendation to a highly respected private Montessori school. When my friend went to the public school the next morning to withdraw her daughter from school, she saw all the morning kindergarten classes lined up. ******She was shocked when she realized ALL of the kids in ALL of the morning kindergarten classes were WHITE. She previously noticed that ALL of the kids in the afternoon kindergarten classes were NOT of European descent. When she told the principal that she was withdrawing her daughter and putting her in private school, the principal told her that private school is too expensive for her. My friend calmly told her that money was no object. The principal continued to carry on and seemed to think my friend and her husband were uneducated wage earners. Anyway, the child is doing so well at the Montessori K-6 school. At age five, she is reading at a second grade level. The teachers love her and all but one of the students love her, too. One jealous student told numerous parents that they shouldn’t be inviting my friend’s daughter to their homes for play dates “because she is from South America”. Fortunately, all of those parents were appalled and let the jealous girl’s mom know how inappropriate those racist comments were.

At age four, my very academically advanced and well behaved daughter was treated so badly by a racist private art teacher (not a public school teacher) that we decided to homeschool her. At five years old, our Guatemalan born princess reads chapter books that third to fifth graders read. Before the public school folks flame me for homeschooling, I will say that she has an awesome social life and is constantly invited to birthday parties. She gets a lot of socialization at church, with neighborhood kids, and in her extracurricular classes. Parents and other adults are always complementing her manners and behavior.

I don't disagree with being homeschooled & having involvement of their own. Actually, it is wonderful to homeschool while elementary ages.

My children attend a large county school with several guatamalans and many other backgrounds. I am not sure where in the USA these schools are, but WE are so happy our children haven't had any problems so far. They're treated just like the "whites", African Americans, etc.

Lastly, after reading all of the comments/arguments, it saddens me to think guatadopt.com is for support, NOT to be bickering with one another. We adopted 2 children from Guatamala ( 2 biological) because we love children and wanted to give them a better life with love and to be raised in a Christian home. If some of you are so upset to think your child(ren) are or will be treated wrongly, why didn't you think about that before you went through the long process of adoption? Let the children be children.They don't get to be kids anymore.* It stresses me just reading all of the comments.

I'm not expecting problems but I do want to be prepared. On a day to day basis, my child and I are relaxed, enjoy each other's company and we enjoy the company of many friends. At some point in time during my child's life, I think the racist issue WILL come into play. I want to be prepared to defend my child as much as possible. I also want to prepare her for that time but in a way that as much as possible doesn't interfere with her enjoyment of life. If done appropriately, Iher enjoyment of life will be increased because she will be able capable of meeting the challenge.

I'm glad for people who haven't experienced the ugliness of racism so far. I'm sorry that there are people who have experienced it. My mind reals that there are people out there who can be so little minded and mean, especially to mistreat defenseless children.

Best, Cheryl

MCS,
I think you have missed the whole point of this discussion. It was started because of a websie Kevin found, that he thought would interest those of us who visit this site. He was right and it brought people together to discuss an important topic. I do not think anyone here tells their children to watch out for racism on a daily basis, if at all.

Our family is Jewish and I do not tell our children that people hate them because of it. They are proud to be Jewish and Hispanic. They have no idea at this age what is out there. We will deal with it when it happens, until then they go about their life. I don't even think our children would know a racial slur if they heard one.My oldest came home saying the n word and he was calling everything the n word. I told him it was a VERY BAD WORD used to refer to those of darker skin. He did not fully understand what I was saying. What Marie said about that it starts at home is true, we do not speak against anyone because of religion, race, etc., so our children have not been raised to comprehend such hate. We live in an area that has a large and growing Hispanic population, even our Temple has alot of Hispanic Jewish families, so our children have not had to deal with alot of nasty idiots. However, I am not so naive to think that they will live their whole life and never experience hateful behavior from others. That is why we are here discussing discrimination, not to scare each other, but to discuss a topic that is important to the well being of our children. I do not know why you are so frazzled by this discussion? Yes, there were arguments, but they were conducted without vulgarity and were important in discussing the issue. I am happy that Guatadopt brought the topic up. Racial discrimination is worldwide and we need to discuss it more, the topic does make some uncomfortable , but it needs discussion.

Tranquilla chica, I think that every parent here has happy children that are enjoying their childhood to the fullest!

This is off topic of what I've been reading on this site but I was wondering if anyone had any advice... I have a 1 year old and am looking for a bilingual or spanish speaking babysitter or nanny for her. I have searched and searched but I am limited by the fact that I am not bilingual or spanish speaking myself. I find it very important to introduce spanish to her at a young age and would like any input you may have. You can also reach me at alisprings@yahoo.com. Thank you for taking the time to help.