What is your take on this Kevin? Do you have any other insight. To me this sounds like they are going to make the BMs feel guilty and that they are hoping for them to change their minds. Do you feel that the PGN and interviewers really are hoping to stop many of the adoptions by doing this? This post doesn't sound like they are only looking for corruption.

i don't even know how to take this. what i do know, is that my agency has just told me to prepare for another delay (possibly 2-3 months) just for the adoption decree to be registered and for the birth certificate to be released from the registry. first i was facing a delay for renap and now this. i was lucky to be approved by pgn on 4/15 and the final adoption decree was signed on 4/18, but somehow pgn still has control over my adoption! i don't understand how they can tell these other govt offices to stop releasing adoption documents. i wonder how much longer it will be until i can bring my son home. kevin, can they stop the adoption decree from being registered? Can they undo what has already been done?

Kevin whats your take on this??

Kevin - pleaes post your thoughts on this to me this sounds well like a conspiracy to stop all the adoptions from being completed. As you can imagine this is going to spread fear and sickness to all the PAPS who read this and well you know. This just makes me want to throw up.

Heather, bear in mind that this is the *ADA's opinion* that PGN may try to make the birthmoms feel guilty. It may be that PGN will serve to educate some illiterate and unsophisticated birthmoms regarding the facts of adoption (i.e. it is forever and is not a ticket to the US for birthfamily; who knows how birthmoms may be misled). *Not saying* that all attorneys deceive birthmoms, but let's face it, all is not as we'd like to assume... JMO, Lee

Finally it is confirming what I have said all along that what they are doing is illegal!!! Now maybe some of the other readers of this post will understand why I have been so upset about all this. I recall one person I believe her name to be Lisa stating she didn't know why we were all upset we should have expected delays as she said we were all warned. Delays are one thing, illegal acts are another. I have a problem with the new regime doing things illegally. I am glad the lawyers will file the paperwork against all of this. The ADA states also that adoptive parents have rights...Thank You!!...someone is finally taking a stand for us. Somehow we are supposed to feel guilty about wanting our children in a reasonable amount of time and wanting things done legally. Thanks Kevin for the update. I know there is more dust that has to clear but at least it seems ADA is recognizing things for what they are!!! It will be interesting to see how all these BM interviews will pan out!!
We should see something by end of day!!!

KD

We try as much as possible to keep our opinins to our individual Writer's Corners. We try to keep the main page deovted to "news" and/or awareness of non-Guatadopt commentary such as is the case here or when I posted Hannah Wallace's commentary last week.

Over the past week or so I have written two pieces with my opinion that are posted (http://www.guatadopt.com/WritersCorner/KevinsCorner/). If you look at hte top of our homepage you'll also find links to them.

If you read those, you'll get an idea of my OPINION. But everyone realize I have no crystal ball.

Kevin
Guatadopt.com

our file was signed off, we have bc and passport and our second DNA in process. Do you think PGN is be patrolling the airports and not letting us leave the country, because our file was signed by Barrios?

Wow, after reading the ADA post, it sounds like the birth mothers are going to be interrogated by the PGN and whom ever they choose to be at the interview.

Everyone knows that intimidation has been a huge corruption tactic and when you call a birth mother in and sit her down in the room, and then you the one person (birth mother) with a team of interrogators, in this case according to the ADA post (psychologist of the PGN, lawyers of the District Attorneys office, some other from the Human Rights Office, and reporters from the press).

Do they not even understand confidentiality!!! What are they thinking!!!???!!!

They can be criminally sued, left and right by the birth parents and if they think that the birth parents have no one to fight for their rights, then just look at the 4 women who are trying to find their children, someone with money and influence took them on and gave them a voice.

The same can be done with the birth parents, because there must be a law that protects confidentiality of their choice to place their child for adoption.

There also must be a law that protects them from being interrogated without proper representation.

If the country of Guatemala will not follow the law, then what stops us from exposing them to the world.

What stops us from taking in top U.S. psychologist, top U.S. criminal attys, top U.S. human rights leaders, and of course our own press, CNN, Fox and whoever else wants a good story of corruption and violation of birth parent's right and the right's of a child to be adopted under the grandfather clause voted on by the congress of Guatemala, and while we are at it, let's let them go inside and show how the children who are caught in the middle are growing older day by day while waiting through this illegal political power play, who's rights to be home with their adoptive family have been violated by the PGN, who is continuing to not release cases and continued to break their own law to review the cases in 3 days. They want to look like the saviors of these children, in the eyes of the press, so they can rationalize breaking their own laws!!!???!!!

PGN can interview the birth mom legally but if they bring in all those other people and even the psychologist without the birth mother having someone one her side to fight for her rights, then they cross the line to being criminals. We will see, after the birth mother interviews today, how far they crossed that line and decide at that time, how much we want to expose them to the world, to protect our children and our children's birth parents.

We have every right to protect our child and their birth mother from being used as pawns in the adults struggle for political power and personal agendas that do not follow the law of the land but are throw in the trash, because why should they follow the laws made by congress, they been broken over and over with out consequence.

I have spent this entire morning e-mailing the message below to each of the U.S. Senators (excepting McCaskill & Rockefeller, whose sites are down).

I'm not sure what it will do, but at this point, we have little to lose.

While it took a couple of hours, it was not an impossible "copy & paste" procedure. Please feel free to copy/edit/re-write and re-submit on your own to as many elected representatives as you can.
Congress abhors a vacuum--give them something to blather about in front of a TV camera and perhaps we can break the logjam.

If you go to senate.gov, you can paste your message into each senator's e-mail box. You can check on "foreign relations," "family," "children"--whatever seems appropriate, as I don't think the category will matter a great deal.

Suerte!
--------------

An embarrassingly under-publicized injury to the interests of thousands of American families has been largely ignored by the government of the United States. At this moment at least two thousand hard-working American families languish because of an arbitrary bureaucratic morass in Guatemala. Intercountry adoption receives fluttering attention when politically expedient; in media off-cycles, however, the interests of prospective adoptive children appear to merit little, if any action on the part of our elected representatives.

If humanitarian concerns for thousands of children in the purgatory of foster care or private orphanages mean nothing to the Congress, perhaps an economic rationale would be better grasped. Today approximately 2,500 adoptions currently swirl among the caprices of grasping bureaucrats. Even the most conservative averages estimate a cost of not less than $20,000 (US dollars) in attorneys' fees, maintenance costs, and the like attending each adoption. Fifty million dollars ($50,000,000) is a drop in a budget of trillions, but our nation's public officials fight tooth-and-nail to earmark sums far less.

Not a single prospective adoptive parent in the United States wants to buy a baby or snatch one from an unwilling birth mother. The Guatemalan system of adoption has not been without abuses. Neither has that of the United States. Abduction is a crime, both in this country and abroad. To visit the sins of criminals upon parentless children and loving families seeking to provide them a better way of life redoubles the injury.

Notwithstanding their compliance with the dictates of Guatemala's byzantine adoption process, U.S. families continue to be forced to wait as foreign functionaries delay legitimate adoptions with impunity. Guatemala's sovereignty demands respect. At one time, though, the United States Congress had some self-respect when it came to threats against the interests of its constituents.

The time has long passed for the United States to exercise its influence and insist upon a timely conclusion to intercountry adoptions begun over a year ago. Emphatic diplomatic action is in the best interests of adoptive children and the U.S. families struggling to bring them home safely and soon. Please consider at least giving this important issue the attention it deserves.
-------

Does anyone have clarification if the birthmoms being interviewed are only the cases signed off by Barrios, or is it all cases, are they going to release any kind of statement to tell us what is going on???

I have a question. Do the written laws in Guatemala mean something? If NO, why do they waste time approving them? Why they have judges, attorneys and lawyers.

It looks to me that the first person to show up for work in the morning decides the rules in place for that day.

About the wonderfull people in charge of the Embassy in Guatemala City ( which take orders from the DOS ), I like to think that their aswer is " diplomatic ", that behind the scene they are still working hard to have this mess ( of which they are responsible alltogether with unicef ) fixed. They weren't concerned of interfering in an internal matter of a sovereign Country when they ( Mr. J Lowell ) show up at the guatemalan Parlamient to push for the approval of the Ortega Law.I also think that at this point Miss CONDOLEEZA RICE - Segretary of State - should step up to the plate, should get involved personally, should show all of us that american citizen are not left alone and that beside the usual political and diplomatic bla-bla-bla our politician can fix a problem that they have caused. After all USA is still in good relation with Guatemala: A US hospital ship ( I think military but I'm not sure about it ) has just arrived in Jutiapa to help the guatemalan people.

I hope that I have made my opinions clear, I tried my best since as it's obvious english isn't my natural language.

We will be bring our children home.
Vince

airstar - yes i think you are absolutely right and I am willing to take this fight as far as I need to and if this is what needs to be done then I say lets do it. we need to start with our own govt and expose them for their lack of support for thier 2500 US citizens that they have now decided to turn thier backs on.
I am sure the press would be interested to know what is going in with these PGN interviews and how it is violating the human rights of these Bith mothers and how their govt and our govt is allowing and condoning it.
Its not about the money at all but 2500 families have tens of thousands of dollars paid in adoption fees and well that is a lot of money and a lot of loss both emotionally and financially if PGN turns this into a three ring circus and our children do not come home. This situation is absolutely beyond comprehension.
Anyone feel like they have entered the twilight zone or a really really bad dream?

Should we be trying to raise awareness of these developments with the Congressional Coalition on Adoption, and our individual congressman, to see if the US embassy can support pending adoptions?

Gasp!!
How would one go about initiating another Guatemala 5000 campaign?
I really think there needs to be an organized effort. I thought Guatemala 5000 was fairly effective (or at least that is what I thought. Maybe getting the Grandfather clause was all just a way to get PAP's to shut up after all and they had no intentions of allowing in process cases to be completed?)
Anyway, can we get something organized?

If even one-third of adoptive families contacted ALL U.S. senators, that would still be over 800 e-mails pouring to each office on a single topic--hard to ignore.

I think our agency is cooking up a campaign/protest. I will keep you posted on what I hear.

Let's make it a good one!

Amen Vince - We WILL bring our children home!

I have just spoken with our attorney, and received a recap of the interview this morning.

He said PGN is a madhouse right now with media all over, including Prensa Libre and CNN.

The interview itself was conducted with several people in the room. On the one side (our side) was the birthmother, the baby, the orphanage representative and our lawyer. On the other side of the table were 6 people including someone from Consejo de la Nacion and PGN.

During the interview the birthmother was asked specifics about the baby's birthdate, the date of relinquishment, and her reasons for wanting adoption.

Our lawyer said that despite the interview going extremely well, PGN would not release the previously approved file. It seems the one month wait will be required.

I just spoke with my baby's hogar and they have some babies and birthmothers at the PGN for interviews today, and just received a list for others to be interviewed tomorrow! They're finding it difficult to get everyone into the city on such extremely short notice (some birthmothers live some distance away), and are having to wait in line for gas since there is a strike (I assume with gas delivery or production) on at the moment.

They believe the amparo will be won (and that what is happening is illegal), but urged me to write to my Senators and Representatives and make sure there is as much visibility on this as possible.

In light of the ADA's post and what appear to be a chain of roadblocks the PGN (CNA) is now attempting to create (delays with renap--not sure what that is--and in issuing birth certificates and decrees), I believe this is the time for us to take action and alert every official we can.

Kevin, I agree with your thoughts that the Colom Administration inherited a big problem and has not had much time to deal with it, and it may be too soon to judge their efforts. What I think is so frustrating for so many of us is that instead of following the rule of law and specifically the grandfather clause of the Ortega Bill (legally approved by the Guatemalan Congress), the rules seem to change with every new election and appointment, and no one with a public voice (except Susanna; JCICS, where are you?) seems to be speaking up or taking action to make sure the law is followed as passed. The way the PGN is conducting these interviews makes it impossible for me to continue to trust or sit and wait hopefully—I believe we have to get organized and take action to spread awareness and make this stop before it gets any worse!

I think too many in Guatemala are reacting to political pressure whipped up by those with an agenda to stop adoptions, and all of us are being penalized--birthmothers who have placed their children for adoption with informed consent and their children's best interests at heart but are now being harassed; PAP's who entered into this process in good faith and have patiently and at great cost (in every way) dealt with every threat, delay and expense for the love of their children; and most of all the children who are being unnecessarily delayed from joining the families who want to love and care for them, as well as nurture the bonding and attachment essential for healthy development. This isn't fair to these children, and it's just plain wrong!!

I think I'm patient, tolerant, and naive to a fault, and am as concerned as anyone about making sure no birthmothers have been coerced or mistreated and no babies have been harmed in any way, but even I now feel strongly that this has gone too far and someone needs to speak up and coordinate strong action to ensure the well-being of our children and the cause of reason and decency, even if it is in a country that is not my own.

If there is truly genuine concern about corruption in the process, it can and should be dealt with LEGALLY within the PGN. The fact that so many (if not all!) birthmothers are being interviewed, makes me think this really is a witch hunt, more about appeasing those with an anti-adoption agenda and what seems to be enough political clout to persuade President Colom's appointees to bend if not break the law than addressing real concerns about corruption.

Enough is enough.

Everyone please call, write, fax your Congressional representatives today!

Ruth

OMG!!! MAJOR NEWS FLASH!!! TALK ABOUT A HUGE ADA SCARE!!! OR MAYBE THEY JUST HAD A DIFFERENT EXPERIENCE

BUT, THIS NEWS COMES STRAIGHT FROM MY ATTY WHO I TRUST COMPLETELY, SHE HAD ONE BIRTH MOTHER INTERVIEW TODAY AND THE PGN TREATED THE MOTHER VERY WELL!!!

SHE SAID THAT ALL THEY DID WAS ASK IF SHE STILL WANTED TO PLACE THE BABY FOR ADOPTION :)

GOSH, PGN, I HAVE TO APOLOGIZE FOR FREAKING OUT ON YOU AND NOT HAVING SOME TRUST. SO SORRY...

I'M NOT SURE HOW OTHER INTERVIEWS WENT, BUT MY ATTY WAS THERE.

SHE SAID THE ATTYS DID HAVE TO PUT SOME PRESSURE ON THEM AND THERE WAS PRESS THERE AND THE PRESS TOOK SOME VIDEOS AND PICTURES, BUT THE BIRTH MOM SHE REPRESENTED WAS TREATED VERY WELL FROM THE PGN AND THEY ONLY ASKED HER ONE QUESTION, IF SHE STILL WANTED TO PLACE THE BABY FOR ADOPTION.

THE BIRTH MOM WAS "NOT" INTERROGATED OR MADE TO FEEL GUILTY FOR HER DECISION, SHE WAS TREATED WITH RESPECT AND DIGNITY BY THE NEW PGN.

JD - thanks for sharing the update from your interview.

Ruth - You are so right on with everything that you have said! We keep waiting for logic and reason take over, but this birthmother interview process just looks like more window-dressing for the anti-adoption forces.

Even though the birthmothers were treated with respect and dignity, I have such a big problem with it being a public display. I hope that there will be an immediate stop to that part of the process, at a minimum !
I cannot even fathom. I certainly wouldn't want to show up knowing that my private and very personal decisions would be exposed to everyone. In a third world country where there are misconceptions and stereotypes and discrimination and violence and corruption and........
have mercy.

Airstar93-

We have to be realistic. I am like everybody else in process of adopting from Guatemala.
1- All this looks like the actual Government of Guatemala is trying to show that they are more concern than the previous administration in having adoptions without frauds; after all they have to find something to justify the firing of Gordillo, which lost the amparo.

2- If we think that with amparos filed by the lawyers in Guatemala we can obtain a positive response to our request, we are wrong. Consider that for what I know, the judges in Guatemala are merely appointed by the executive power ( the government )and therefore they respond only to the person that appointed them. The principle of a modern democracy, as thought by the fathers of the french revolution aren't always applied in this world.

3- You said that the mother was treated with respect. Don't forget that the press is there, and I'm not talking about " Prensa Libre " but about american press. By the way in " Prensa Libre " of today they are not talking anymore about illegal adoptions in reguard to the lady that was arrested, I think yesterday, and is the sister of Mr. Rivera, one of the person veemently against adoptions.

4- This situation I think is teaching us a very important lesson. We americans are always ready to help everybody and treat averybody with respect and dignity even the ones that haven' t any right to be here ( illegal immigrants ): We feed them, we cure them, we give them an education, we give them the same rights as a US citizen when they have to show up before a judge; and what happens when we ask another Country to treat us the same?

We will bring our children home.
Vince

Thank you airstar98 for quickly sharing your knowledge of what is occuring today at PGN. Hopefully this reasonable treatment will be extended to all birth moms so this can all transpire efficiently and quickly. Can anyone else report any news they have heard from PGN today?

Vince,

I find your post highly offensive.

We Americans treat EVERYONE with respect and help them? Are you kidding me? I don't mean for this to sound bad but study a little history of US foreign policy. Start with Guatemala. And for the record, undocumented immigrants (there is no such thing as an illegal human being!)in the US do NOT receive the same rights as citizens in many ways. But yes, anyone can go to an emergency room, but they can't get free medical care. Anyone can attend a public school. And anyone should be able to eat. Those are human rights, not American rights. I'm sorry but you struck a nerve with me.

I don't believe that the ADA reports that the media would be in the rooms for the interviews were correct. I doubt that they can stop the media from being in the building any more than we can in the US. But there was no "be nice" show for the media and if the intent was so bad, then it would make better TV to see women leving in tears with their newly reclaimed child.

I am receiving mixed reports about whether or not the attorneys were allowed to be present for the interviews.

The judges were not appointed by Colom. I don't think it works any differently in Guatemala than here. And was it not in the US where the Executive Branch fired federal judges for political reasons? Remember that little scandal?

None of what I am writing is defending this process of interviews. But shouldn't we be happy that the birthmoms are being treated fairly? And let us not let our "first world" blinders cause us to automatically attack unfairly anything that happens elsewhere. Because guess what, our government, no matter which party is in power, is pretty darned screwed up too!

Double standards and ugly americanism achieve nothing.

Sorry for the rant.

Paz,

Kevin
Guatadopt.com

Our lawyer said that despite the interview going extremely well, PGN would not release the previously approved file. It seems the one month wait will be required.

WHY AREN'T THEY RELEASING THESE FILES LIKE THEY SAID THAT THEY WOULD???? WHY WAIT ANOTHER MONTH? IT MAKES ME WONDER WHAT ELSE THEY ARE WORKING ON FOR NEXT MONTH TO DELAY AND HOLD UP THESE "GRANDFATHERED" CASES. SHAME ON THEM FOR DOING THIS!! CHILDREN ARE THE VICTIMS HERE, BUT THEY CAN'T SEE BEYOND THEIR OWN SELFISH POWER!

I am so happy people are posting who have info on the interviews. I took the advice of "Nations Capital" and emailed all of our senators. If we can't control what's happening over there, at least we can do something here. Don't know if it will help but it made me feel like I was doing something. What if all of us emailed our senators? would certainly be a LOUDER voice.

Airstar,
I disagree that this Birthmother was treated with respect and dignity from what your lawyer described. Respect would have been if this interview would have taken place confidentially, privately, with both sides having representation. Yes, it may seem like they were respectful by not interrogating her, and I am so glad that they didn't, but will this birthmother who was "outed" as a mother who is relinquishing her child, and photographed and videotaped, going to be safe now? Will her face be splashed in Prensa Libre or on the local news? When are people in charge in Guatemala going to realize that for many Birthmothers this was a painful decision, and a private, personal decision, and completely her right to make. These women are degraded and treated like children. Very sad. Many are unselfish heroines in my book.

Vince,
If it is true that the American press was part of these interviews, than as an American I am very embarrassed!

Anonymous PAP and AP

Kevin-

I don't understand why you feel offended by my remarks. I wasn't born in any US State but I was born US citizen. And I do know some of the US history. Did the US save all western Europe from a crazy man called Hitler? What would have happened if Us was not involved in WWII? Do you think that the german army would not have conquered the all world? What would have happened to the entire world if the US was not there to face the communist threat after the war ended? I know that not always this Country has been perfect. But has been good for the all humanity to have US there in WWI, WWII, Korea, Vietnam, Golf WarI. Unfortunally today we are involved in a non-sense war in Iraq. But I tell you that the world will cry again for help when people like the Iran president will be ready to give great harm to the human beings and guess who will be there to defende the innocents? I also know that throughout the history of this Country the Government has done a lot of bad things. We were involved with the central and south american dictatorships ( even in Guatemala )like Pinochet in Chile or the military regime in Argentina.But we had no choice: We had to take side, there wasn't and there isn't space for any neutrality; sooner or later we will have to take side again if we do not want to be harmed by evil dictators. Think about Venezuela, Bolivia, Honduras et alter." WAR IS NOT THE ASWER " is good as bomber sticker not as a " REALPOLITIK ".When we didn't take any side a genocide has happened, and nobody stopped because nobody cared: I saw first hand what happened in ex jugoslavia in the '90's; and I saw on Tv what happened in Somalia, in Uganda and what's happening at this days in Darfur and Congo ( the forgotten civil war ).
About illegal immigration. I was just saying that they are not treated differently than american citizen. And it is true ( on this trust me ) that when they show up before a judge, they have all the " natural law " and Costitutional rights like me and you. A judge has not even the right to ask them if they have the right to be here or not.Now my point is this: what would happen to you and me in another Country ( Mexico, Costa Rica, Venezuela ect.ect. )if we were before a judge because of a DUI? In the international law there is a basic principle ( common ): I will treat you the way you treat me.

Have you ever ask yourself how this world will be today without the USA?

Sorry, but even in this time i still love MY COUNTRY.
Please, now we have to keep the focus on the guatemalan orphans. WE WILL BRING OUR CHILDREN HOME.
Vince

airstar98 - You were lost there for a while. Glad to see you are back. Please, share what you know. Many of us don't get anything from our lawyers or agencies and depend on information from other PAPs. You seem to be a wealth of information. Exactly what we need right now.
Thanks

We just spoke w/ our attorney and our b-mom interview went great! The PGN said that our dossier will be ready in 3 days to pick up. So the PGN is NOT HOLDING the cases once the interviews are completed.

I'm not sure if the press was actually in the interview room, I didn't ask because I was so happy that my atty was so happy that the interview was fast and simple and the birth mom was safe and sound out of the interview.

My atty did say that the attys fought to protect the birth mother's rights, so we will see what the other reports are, but this is a huge victory, because she could have reported that the PGN forced the birthmom to take the child back or accused the birthmom of not loving the child, or some other crazy thing, there was so much that could have happened, and while I was not the PAP whose child's birth mother was interviewed today, I would guess that the PAP is so relieved to see that the interview happened and is done with and that PGN did not kidnap the child, or take the child out of the custody of the atty, or any other crazy tactic. They simply asked if she still wanted to place the child for adoption, and that was it.

I was concerned that the PGN may act as they did in the video that someone posted on Utube. The video showed them grabbing the child out of the arms of the foster mom and running with her to a room while the foster mom and others were heart broken and in shock at what took place.

In fact, you can view it for yourself on Utube. Here is the link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Co0Geq93K0s

It's very sad to see the way the PGN grabbed the child, even dangling the child at a point, it's just wrong, absolutely not the way it should have been handled. In the ADA post, they report that the child was never given back to the foster parent and that the young birth mother was convinced during two hours of guilt to take the child back, and then she and the child were placed in a home and they are not allowed to have any contact with their family or their support group.

Anyways, this happen under the old PGN watch and this could have happened under the new PGN director today, but thank God it didn't and the birth mother and child is safe.

My atty didn't report getting the approval right then, but she didn't expect it then. This was only the interview part and my atty told me already and I posted it here that all this is being done to get the bad on the previous administration.

So, while I am happy that the birth mother was not taken advantage of or interrogated, I do realize that there are going to be other interviews that do not end so well, especially if the PGN has evidence of inconsistencies in the file or the file is associated with corrupt attys or facilitators that are found to be corrupt, like the lady that they arrested and accused of coercing birth mothers or paying birth mothers to hand over their child.

I understand if they question these birth mothers more, but I don't agree with the birth mothers who have clean files being questions unnecessarily.

Now, this was just a small victory of a larger goal to get our children home.

We may still have to fight and contact our senators and congressman if cases don't start coming out at least by the month delay that they gave us.

I just talked again with the people at my baby's hogar. Some of their birthmothers (not my baby's) were interviewed today, and apparently it went very well all things considered. The birthmothers were not pressured, only asked if they still wanted to place the baby for adoption. The attorney and a representative from the hogar were allowed to go in with each birthmother.

The interviewers also had the files for each case and checked all the documents to be sure everything was correct, then entered this information into the computer. The people from the hogar said that part took the longest, but since this was the first day they will probably get faster. Each birthmother was interviewed for about an hour, they were in a big room with about 10 tables so several interviews were going on at once.

Also, for birthmothers that had been requested to appear but could not be located or transported into Guatemala City quickly enough, they were allowed to reschedule the interview for a different time.

Although I agree with everyone who says this is still an indignity at best for the birth mothers, and still think it's an unnecessary delay, I have to say I'm at least reassured about the way the process is being handled and bit more inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt. I do think we should continue to keep our Congress people and other officials informed about what's going on, since it does seem like one delay after another. But I am a bit more inclined to wait to see how fast cases are completed after this (although I did hear that it will still be a month no matter how the interview goes).

Maybe this is the only way they can get all the interviews done quickly. It does seem possible that this might be the best plan they could come up with to publicly make sure all the cases are OK and then get them moved on through the process. I guess we will have to wait and see.

About the press--I agree this is horrible to put these birthmothers through, and probably should be illegal even if it's not. But I can't help but be glad that if the Gautemalan press is going to be there, CNN is there, too. At least it is getting some visibility in our press, someone in the media here is aware of what's going on, and this might make it less likely for abuses to occur during the interview process.

Well, another roller-coaster day. I may have over-reacted some in my eariler post, and hope the news coming from the interviews does help everyone have a more peaceful evening. I'm with Vince--definitely beginning to show some signs of stress, but still believing we will bring these children home!

I feel for the birth mothers. I try to put myself in their shoes. I don't feel as if they should be "interviewed" for the 2nd time. Imagine their hearts breaking as they relinquish their baby in the begining. After that, I would think that the BM's go through a "healing process". Now the BM's are having to re-live the day all over again and will have to go through the " healing process" again. I hate that this is happening to the BM's

Just heard from our agency.
The attorneys claiming the birth mom's are being treated well are sugar-coating the issue. Apparently the attorneys with our agency were placed in a seperate room from the bm's and both were interrogated. One of our attorney's witnessed news media photographing the bm's. Where is the privacy? Many of these women's families don't know they were even pregnant (due to rape, adultery, etc) and are now frightened.
If all the attorneys got together and refused to bring in the BM's for an ILLEGAL interview, I'm sure we'd see some progress. But ALL attorney's have to be on board.
we need to write our members of Congress and also send emails to the major news stations (CNN, FOX, MSN) so our side can be heard. I was told it is an absolute fiasco outside the PGN, but only the sensational is being heard. Please everyone, spend an hour emailing Congress and the media to help our children.

I confirm that the USS Boxer has arrived in Puerto Quetzal, Esquintla, with the mission of bringing medical attention to 500 people a day. It's a prove that the relationship between USA and Guatemala is good and that there is space to cooperate to solve the adoption problems.

Vince

Vince, I too find your comments extremely offensive. I do appreciate that when you love your child so much every day without them is a nightmare and to be extremely angry at the situation is to be expected.
However, the imply that the US is a force of love and decency and that Guatemala is not treating you fairly beggars belief.
The most conservative estimates of loss of life in Iraq is 91,000 and many suspect the figure is much, much more. So do these people not deserve life or are they lucky to be 'liberated' by the US? Did America ask these victims and their families if they would like an invasion and to loss their water supplies , electricity etc for months on end?
Guatemala has the right to do whatever it sees fit with its children. If you are to parent one of their children then I think you should respect their dignity and autonomy in dealing with welfare issues even if they differ from your views. The US is a country of illegal immigrants, everyone who is not native America arrived on the shores hoping to build a new life. Please remember that many people who spout about Illegals are talking about Hispanic people, many bigots will classify your child within that group.
You mention Hitler, i do not see the relevance. I have lived within and outside the US and I can tell you that the Press in The US has got to be one of the most controlled and one sided propaganda machines I have ever watched. believe me when you live elsewhere you realize how little balance the average US citizen experiences in broadcasting. The image of the Ugly American is everywhere. It seems like we want to whole world to behave as we do.We don't know what it is like to wait for anything and the truth is that most other countries people are used to waiting. I admire your zeal and passion to have your child home and I hope it happens rapidly. there is nothing wrong with loving one's country either. But if you think that US citizens are underdogs who don't receive the fair treatment they dispense to the world, I have to strongly disagree.

Does anyone know what will happen to cases where the birth mother cannot be located or refuses to travel to PGN because of fear, family or work responsibilities, or other reasons? There is simply no way that amost 3,000 birth mothers will be able to travel to Guatemala City (some living very far away).

To PARENT-

I am an immigrant myself, I was born US citizen abroad and abroad I have spent most of my life, before coming to USA. I got married in USA to an immigrant from GUATEMALA. About immigration, legal or illegal, I take lesson from no one. Any time I try to talk straight some one gets offended.I don't understand. Sorry, I hate the so called " politically correct ". Every body right now is complaining because the guatemalan autorities aren't following the law ( the granfather clause ), every body wants the law been inforced. But if I say that a US law isn't enforced, then that same people get offended and they say that isn't a problem if a law isn't enforced.A law is a Law anywhere any time.

And now as I said before, please lets keep the focus on the problem that we have.
WE WILL BRING OUR CHILDREN HOME
Vince

Vince,

I believe you are not only straying from the issue but insulting beyond belief Guatemalans and every reader's intelligence.

I will just say one thing. Read the now open to the public CIA files on Guatemala. Learn about the role of the United States in the counterinsurgency activities that killed thousands of innocent Guatemalans. If you want personal stories, I'll be more than happy to share my own family's with you.

I am with Kevin. You GOT to be kidding!!! Learn a bit of Guatemalan history, please! Read "The art of political murder" by Francisco Goldman (he's Guatemalan American, so you can trust him ;), get informed before you speak, please, please.

I really hope you are not representative of most PAPs line of thinking. Really do.

Vince,

I very much want to believe that your line of thinking is not representative of most PAPs.

You're so off I don't know where to begin. Please, please, educate yourself on world history, on Guatemala history, on the role of the United States in so many dirty wars around the World! Just in Guatemala, they supported counterinsurgency activities that killed thousands of innocent people, including children, elderly people, pregnant women, you name it. You doubt it? there are enough declassified CIA files available to make you lose your appetite for a month.

The US had no choice but to topple democratically elected governments in Central and South America? The same democratic values that you claim we lack in Guatemala?

You DARE mention Vietnam??? I know a bit about napalm because the US also supplied the same chemicals to the Guatemalan Army, the Timorese Army, you name the Army in the 70's and 80's.

Vince, please, go back to the subject of adoptions.

Here we go again. Let's put the blame on the Americans because "we don't know what it is like to wait for anything". I am getting sick and tired of having fingers pointed at me and my fellow Americans because we care enough to want to limit the amount of time these children spend in temporary care. As a child care specialist I can tell you that keeping children in temporary care unnecessarily is NOT in the best interest of the child. These children will have to make more transitions in their lives - when they all come home to us - and to delay this by months, and in some cases sadly years, does not benefit the child. It is one thing to have to wait for the process to be carried out, and another thing entirely to have people in PGN for 8 months or more because of KOs for such things as missing paperwork that was in the file the whole time; to wait for nearly 2 months while the officials in GT figured out how the registration of grandfathered cases would take place and all the political posturing that followed; to be signed and ready to be released and now to have to wait through yet more political posturing. I would bet everything I have that if the process were transparent, legitimate, fair and made some sense, that we would not have a problem waiting for these adoptions to be processed. People are fed up with the absurdity of what has gone on, and the impact that is has had on all of our lives, most importantly on the children's lives. Let's just stop bashing each other, because it is non-productive. We are also victims, to a system that is abusing its power and is using the good hearts of the Americans against them - because they know we will not walk away from these children.

As I read through this list of comments I can't help but note that it took a very negative turn. I went back to see how it happened and must say to Kevin how very disappointed I am in your part in this. Very early in the thread you profess to want to keep your "opinions" in the rant section but several posts down you hurled the first flames in this conflagration. Usually you are the one to be counted on keeping emotionally fragile PAPs calm and often are the first person to call for "paz" but in this thread you chose to flame Vince. The years on-line, especially with this site would lead me to believe you could do a thesis on the anatomy of a flame so I'm at a loss...frankly disappointed that you would have used the language you did and then have done nothing to try and douse the flames once started. In my apparently different perspective I would say that Vince is clearly stressed about an impending adoption who (in his own admission of not having English as his native language) used analogies that have been blown out of proportion! I would suggest that a calmer re-read would show that the main point that he was trying to make was that those on this site railing about laws and legality should consider the concept that people in other countries do not share our opinions on how to distribute 'justice'.
I am suggesting that what is needed at this point in the discussion is a moment of reflection on what we really want to be seeing on here addressing the current situation in adoptions and not personal attacks....especially from one of the moderators.

Can we focus on the issue at hand and what we can do to bring our children home? I would like less political perspectives on the differences between US and Guatemala and how people are sick and tired of being blamed as an American.

I want my child home, but no amount of expressing our frustration at Vince's statements will bring home my child, nor yours.

Let's have more ideas on how to start another initiative like the Guatemala 5000 from JCICS.

Is the CCAI or JCICS willing to launch a campaign again? Let's focus on this.

I like Susana's post. She painted a very vivid picture of the scene and what took place. It is very discouraging that the CNA is taking such a role and even now suggesting that the b'moms be interviewed individually with a psychologist. I could swallow the idea of having the b'moms coming in to verify the relinquishment, but taking it further than that is simply not acceptable.

What can we do? Susana suggests we contact our representatives and government officials to ask them to intervene. On what grounds?

I can see asking the Embassy to intervene on cases that were ready to be signed off, but can we even do that? Doesn't that violate our ethical code of non-intervention?

What an awful development this has become! I thought, okay, let's go along with these interviews and then maybe things can get rolling again. But, no, now they want to find new and crazier reasons to delay.

I cannot believe that anyone in that country would allow or accept the media abuse of clearly showing the women giving up children, and especially, the printing of private infomation. It is a different country with different social rules than our own. I know that, yet it is so hard to accept that they can be so abusive.

This is what we are dealing with. This attitude toward their own people. People don't matter. The individual doesn't matter. It only matters who ends up with the power to do . . . ? That's the thing. Just what are they fighting for?? Just why are they trying to disrupt the adoption process here? Just what are they hoping to win?

If I were a b'mom, I surely wouldn't have wanted to walk into that room full of cameras and media. I would have covered myself and my child with a shawl so that they could not know who I was. These poor women who have been through so much and now this last indignity. What an outrage!

Dear community,
I am interested in hearing from any and all out there who are OHIO PAPs of infants grandfathered and currently stuck and stymied by the current PGN debacle. I plan to go to DeWine, Voinovich and my HR (Chabot) with as much force and volume as possible to demand their influence input to help resolve at least the short term crisis.
Grandma Gloria
(We are stuck with a stalled sibling adoption)

Suz,

Your points are well taken. I will say that I do not believe that anyone has "flamed" Vince and he and I have had some e-mails off-list on this. We have long said that it is fine to speak of what someone wrote, just not the person. It is often a fine line and trust me that it is not easy to be in the role of having to make that call when you strongly believe in not censoring. I honestly much prefer it when someone questions me, as you did, than when it is other readers.

My statements about trying to keep opinions and news separated was in regard to the adoption issues taking place. The fact is that that the "pro-adoption" camps are not seeing exactly eye to eye at the moment and so out of the respect I have for those who disagree with me right now in the community, I kept my take on all of this isolated to my Writer's Corner.

I agree - let's keep this discussion on adoption if we can. But in order for that happen EVERYONE has to respect it.

Statements that seem to minimize the human suffering caused by US tax dollars in Guatemala, suffering that is very much responsible for the socio-economic conditions that have led to the need for adoption, are impossible for me to just let pass on this site. Those ar eissues that strike to my very core as a human being and my hope for a better America.

Vince is a good guy and I know the hard time he is having. I do empathize and I think or hope he knows that. We may not agree but hey, that doesn't make anyone evil and the ability to disagree is something that does make the US great!

So with all that said, I honestly do thank you for your post. No one gets a pass, especialy me :-)

Paz,

Kevin
Guatadopt.com

Vince,

Hang in there, I truly hope you bring your child home and SOON.

I think you made a valid point about the way you feel you are being treated in the Guatemalan legal system. Nobody should be accused of being an ugly American when they have a legitimate complaint. But beware of the illegal immigration vs. undocumented workers debate....its a pet issue of Kevin's and he obviously has strong opinions. Kevin, I love you and what you do. I disagree with you on this issue but I respect that its your blog not mine.
But PLEASE For the sake of not adding additional stress to the PAPs you are helping....don't add fuel to the fire. Can we please drop the debate over whether America is a good or bad country and the whole immigration issue? We're not going to solve it here, folks. PAPs are in crises -- this is hardly the time for one of our lively online debates. (I've participated in plenty of them in the past myself, but I don't think its appropriate today.)

You WILL bring your children home.

Grandma Gloria,
We are OHIO PAPs as well and would be willing to help.

Folks please lets stay focused here - our adoptions are in a state of crisis and lets all pull together here and support each other and let everyone who needs to vent do so and not take things personally and please dont attack anyone - you can attack the injustices we are all witnessing and lets come up with some real strategies to get our lazy unnattentive government to back thier US citizens and put an end to this travesty of parading our children, birthmoms and foster mothers in what is real personal thing in front of the media for all the world to see. someone should go to jail for this atrocity.

We just called PGN and were told "your file is in the name of your atty and is ready to be picked up on Tuesday". We did not have a BM interview appt. We were signed off by Barrios from what I understand. Both my Guat atty and my US atty will be at PGN first thing Tuesday morning. I have not been able to confirm this with my Guat atty but I was the one who called her to let her know the file had been approved last month - go figure.
Let's pray that this info is true so I don't have to continue "holding my breathe" as I am sufficating already!!

Kevin,
I know you have your plate full, but can you help us get an organized effort going, similiar to Guatemala 5000? Maybe get a petition going and a form letter we can send to our state and country officials?
I know DOS keeps telling us that they can't interfere and we have no right to do anything. I am SO sick and tired of hearing them repeat that they warned us. What about those of us that started BEFORE the warnings?
I firmly believe that if we organize our efforts and bombard our officials with emails and petitions, someone will listen. I've emailed everyone I can, but I get canned responses because I don't think enough of us are doing it. If we got family members and friends to sign petitions and email, we could make a difference.
If I am being naive or missing the boat here and we can't really do anything about it, let me know and I'll let it go. I just feel so helpless.
Thanks

Gloria - We are NJ PAPs but would love to do whatever you are doing in Ohio over on this side.
I'm not sure if it will help, but I NEED to feel like I am doing something. I dont know if I am more angry or more sad at this point, I am really loosing hope of my "grandfathered" adoptions ever going through. Sooo jealous of all of you that are sure that everything will work itself out.

Does anyone have any information on what PGN plans to do in situations where the bio mom cannot be located or doesn't want to come? Some of these cases are 1-2 years old and it's possible many of the bio moms have moved and left no forwarding address.

I'm wondering if there were any "no shows" yesterday and what that might mean for those cases. Our bio mom recently went to PGN (last few months) and was interviewed, reiterating her decision to place her baby for adoption. She lives VERY far away and may well refuse to come a second time.

I also heard through a reliable source that they are indeed interviewing all the bio moms. Whether or not they are making that public is to be seen. They may be holding their intentions close to the chest to avoid an uproar of complaints.

Gloria,

We are Ohio PAPS with a 2 yr old girl from Guatemala already home waiting to bring home a little boy. I sent info to the Senators and our Rep yesterday, but we would be willing to do more.

We met our baby boy just 3 and a half weeks ago in Guatemala City, and fell deeply in love with him. We had 72 hours with him. The night before we were to leave him, I couldn't stop crying. He affected us that much. We felt he really needed us. I left thinking we have an estimated 10 weeks longer. How naive I was. Now we have 4-5 months or possibly longer. I am inconsolably sad, and I suppose all I can do is contact my congressmen.? Can we all come together and do something together?

The Congressional Coalition on Adoption Institute (Mark Moore 202/544-8500) is very sympathetic. The US State Department's Adoption Unit Head (Gerry Fuller 202/663-2928) tolerated my call, but I understand they are in a tough position. Senator Coleman (MN), Senator Lader (LA) are the chairs of the CCAI, and good to call. My IL Congressman's office was beyond pathetic! Senator Durbin is good! Mark at the CCAI said he went to the recent mtg with President Colom and spoke up on behalf of pending adoptions.

Any word on when they will release cases that have been issued previos?

KCopat I hope that you were given accurate information and that your case will be released. I have been worried sick because our case was also "approved" and our attorney has not been given an interview time and date. Maybe this explains why. I'm going to keep that hope for the weekend, it will console me some!!