What I have heard is that knock on wood, some of the cases where the interview took place will be released next week. I hope this occurs as a good faith show that no one is trying to prevent the cases from being completed. So come on PGN - release those files!
All 25 cases interviewed yesterday went fine. Of course, there were more who had been called and obviously no one is going to show up if, for example, the child had been kept from a birthmom who wanted to reclaim in the past. I am not saying that has happened. I'm just saying that this process will likely result in many cases getting cleared and questions on others.
I also learned that if an attorney can't make the appointment date, they need to go to PGN to reschedule. In short, just doing a no show doesn't look good. So if the assigned date for the interview doesn't work for the birthmom or they are trying to find her, they should go, set a date, or communicate with PGN.
Rumor, nothing official, is that all reinquishment cases will be called for an interview. Some 100 more interview requests went out today. More interviews did occur today and I am not sure how many that was.
On the press yesterday.... Obviously, it is wrong for them to take pictures of unwilling birthmoms. They were not allowed on the floor where the interviews were taking place except for before and after the interviewing occurred. They did, unfortunately, have the ability to take pictures of people as they entered and left the building. I don't know if this can be legally prevented and would urge the media to use proper judgement.
Some abandonment cases were called in yesterday. Obviously no birthmom can be present but a representative from the children's home stood in. I don't know the purpose of this unless it is to document/validate who is caring for the child and that it is the same child on the CNA registration.
Some have requested me to create a campaign. I am lacking on time and am not sure I agree with the need for one. As I've written, I am really torn right now. I want all legitimate adoptions completed ASAP. I think that the legality of these interviews is something for the courts to decide. If it is illegal, then an amparo should be filed and ruled on. But from what I know and am hearing, not being a lawyer or expert on this, that ruling could go either way.
My OPINION is that we should see if the cases where interviews have been conducted get released before intervening in domestic affairs of a sovereign state. But as I have written many times before, we happily post information on most campaigns PAPs create. Back in 2003, before I wrote for this site, I and others did do the work and asked Kelly to post it. Guatadopt has rarely if ever been the organizer,it has been the communicator.
A NOTE: someone yesterday in the comments posted a You Tube link. THAT WAS NOT FOOTAGE FROM YESTERDAY. It was months old.
Posted by Kevin at May 9, 2008 05:46 PMThank Heavens !!! Sounds like the interviews are going well! thanks for 'de-stressing' our weekend somewhat!
Posted by: Rachel at May 9, 2008 06:11 PMWith all due respect, Kevin. This "sovereign" state of Guatemala has hardly made these decisions in a vacuum. Our Dept. of State has been involved in issues relating to the actual passage of the Hague Legislation all the way down to "telling" Guatemala when to make the enactment date.
The parents in process entered into good-faith legal agreements in Guatemala and asking our Dept. of State to insert themselves into this situation is not interfering with a sovereign nation as you state - it is asking our government to protect the legal processes that US citizens are involved in that our government in essence forced them into.
Also to say that you want the adoptions to be legal and without fraud is super great and all
- but reinterviewing birthmothers in PGN is not legal according to actual lawyers in Guatemala. These cases were not to have any additional requirements - period.
My agency said today that all cases will have the birth mother interview, then the cases will have to go through the PGN review process. I wonder what this means for those of us who were issued previos right when the shut down happened. Will PGN conduct the interviews and then release the files so they can be corrected?
Posted by: concerned at May 9, 2008 06:26 PMThank you Kevin! Any news, especially fairly encouraging news, helps us face the weekend! While I do not approve of the interviews, if they continue to move on through at this pace, maybe there is hope!
Posted by: Michele at May 9, 2008 06:34 PMI am glad that the lawyers will be able to re-schedule the interviews, as our b-mom has no phone and lives about 6 hours from the city.
Out of curiousity, though, does anyone know exactly how much notice the lawyers are getting for each interview? 48 hours?
Thanks!
Posted by: Kat at May 9, 2008 06:39 PMI so appreciate the update! I really hope they start releasing the interviewed cases next week. I think that will encourage us all.
Blessings,
L
I am waiting on the birth certificate to be released from the registry. I was told that even though i have pgn approval and final adoption decree signed, that pgn has told the registry not to register adoption decrees or issue birth certificates. I was wondering if anyone else in similar situation, and is there anything that can be done at this point. I have been told that the adoption is legally final, yet pgn is delaying me ever more. Do I have any rights? Does MY CHILD have any rights? Can pgn prevent my adoption from being registered? Is there a plan for these type cases where we are just waiting for the birth certificate, to be able to move forward. I don't see how this is legal, and it definately isn't fair. the final adoption decree was signed by the mother. what can i do? any advise??? please i am at wits end!
Posted by: momma-in-waiting at May 9, 2008 08:34 PMKevin - can you be more specific on the source of your PGN information, or reliability? I ask because I called PGN myself today, and was told that files wouldn't be released until sometime in June. We are one of the families who were approved on 4/21, not released, and the birthmother interview successfully occurred yesterday. The lady I spoke with at PGN had all of the above-stated information, and yet, still said files wouldn't be released until June. I so desperately want to believe your information, but I don't want to set myself up with false hope again.
Thanks so much!
Posted by: JD at May 9, 2008 09:37 PMTo reveal my sources would only impede their ability to give me info. So I'll have to ask you all to lay faith on the history and integrity of this site.
I did say "knock on wood" about cases being released. It is not something I am saying will happen but there are indications it will. Fingers and toes are crossed needless to say.
As for the legality, and no offense is taken, my assessment has come from coversations with attorneys. As I said, in the courts it could go either way.
As for US intervention in Guatemala, I have long criticized the actions taken by our DOS on this matter. If anyone reads in my writer's corner the piece called "setting things straight", I clearly believe it was bad law that was pushed upon the Guatemalan congress. I think DOS, Casa Alianza, Unicef and the Hague are incredibly short sighted in how they pushed for necessary reform. There is no doubt that it could have been done in a better way that truly takes the best interests of children to heart.
Whether the courts find them to be constitutionally and legally sound, there is a legal basis for what is going on. Once again, I'm not defending it or saying how the courts will rule, I'm just saying that it is not a forgone conclusion based on what I have been told and understand.
Paz,
Kevin
Guatadopt.com
I am in the same boat as momma in waiting. We are waiting on the birth certificate. I am also at my wits end as we have been waiting for our daughter to come home for about 15 months. Kevin, do you know what will happen with these cases?
Posted by: praying Momma at May 9, 2008 11:37 PMKevin,
Any confirmation on what I have been reading about no birth certificates being released? I ask because we received an I-72 and are waiting on new birth certificate for baby and cedula for BM in order to get PA. Are they releasing birth certificates for these situations? Trying to understand if we are stuck in limbo, and haven't gotten an answer from my agency on this question.
Thanks.
Posted by: Debbie at May 10, 2008 06:51 AMKevin,
I am really hoping that you are right. It would be great to see these cases get released as they are processed.
If, on the other hand all of the cases are held, and hundreds released all at the same time, this would just create huge bottlenecks at the next steps of the process, which really would not make sense.
Lizzie
Posted by: eb at May 10, 2008 10:56 AMJust want evryone who writes and reads on this site to know that it is very helpful for me to come here to hear what is going on with all our adptions. I have been approved since April 18, 2008 but now I am with all of you stuck in the new process of PGN. I will pray for all of our cases. I would like to thank Kevin for all the information that you have provided us with. Thanks to everyone else who writes their concerns and shares your story. All of this helps me get through the lonely days and nights. I am sure we all want these procedures to be safe and legal for everyone who is in the process especially for the parents who had to make a choice and given us the opportunity to share our lives with their children. GOD BLESS EVERYONE!
Posted by: julia at May 10, 2008 03:04 PMHello,
Does anyone know when they willlet new cases enter into PGN? We have been out of family court for some time, but we are not in PGN yet. Something about redoing hand & footprints and this was done but then they still did not accept the case yet. This was attempted on May 7th. Any information would be helpful. Planning to vist Guatemala May 23-25th. Janis
Posted by: Janis at May 10, 2008 03:50 PMkevin ,you were saying that may 9 100 cases were supposed to be interview ,do you have any information on how those case went are they planning to release those cases as well like the prior ones on the 8 thank you for your answer katia
Posted by: katia anderson at May 10, 2008 04:40 PMKevin: If your sources know of any possible time frame for new cases under the new rules from the CNA are coming out, can they share?
After months of nothing happening, I need to know what did you mean by "they're close" to being completed....do you mean this month, next month....
a mom in waiting...
Posted by: Kim at May 10, 2008 11:05 PMTo answer questions asked:
1.) I've heard nothing about BCs being held up. It may be happening, but not that I know of
2.) My understanding is that cases can still be entered into PGN. I'm not aware of anyplace other than the CNA registration form were hand and foot prints were used (if it is a US adoption)
3.) Sorry, I don't have a timeframe for the new system. I believe they have the system worked out and now need to get the working documents (working manuals, formal processes, etc) nailed down. I should also say that it is possible adoptions could be open to countries other than the US first because they have their Hague systems and accredidations more formalized and operating.
4.) 100 interview appointments went out. I don't know the date for the interviews.
Kevin
Guatadopt.com
Kevin, you are implying that there is a legal basis for these birthmother interviews and therefore, the courts could go either way. My understanding is that the PGN - and certainly the CNA who has no authority over the grandfathered cases - is exceeding its authority in instituting birthmother interviews as a means of evaluating the voluntary nature of the case. I can understand why they might want to be able to assure themselves that these adoptions were done in good faith, and HOPEFULLY this is the motivation, but if the courts don't strike down the interviews it may not be because they have a legal basis. It may be an indication of the extent that the courts and the administration are in collusion. We said it with the last Attorney General and we'll say it again: when one branch of government infringes on another (the AG is the Executive Branch and the Judicial Branch should be independent) the balance of a democracy is severely challenged.
Aside from the legalities, and IF these interviews are being done in good faith (hopefully), then there are still issues that the U.S. Embassy, as Representative for U.S. families, SHOULD weigh in on strongly (at least as strongly as they weighed in on the reinstituting of the Hague Treaty and the passage of this adoption law and the strong pressure to have it go into effect in December 31,2007 rather than May or June 2008):
What happens if birthmothers cannot be located?
(many birthmothers have fulfilled their obligations of going to Family Court and giving DNA and have given a Power of Attorney to complete the adoptions) Are those adoptions to be terminated because a birthmother cannot be located? What will the U.S.Embassy do on behalf of those families and children?
*There are several reports of abusive interviews, lack of preservation of privacy, inconsistent rules - in some instances attorneys have been allowed to be in the interview, but many have reported that the attorney could not be present.
** Rules should be established which protect the privacy of all parties and the birthmothers should have representation.
** It is intimidation to have people from the MP, the CNA, the PGN, and the Human Rights organizations present (sometimes 6 to 1)
** There are approximately 2500 cases. Even at 100 per day....which is unlikely... this will take months longer
** There are reports from at least one Abandonment case that the interviewers grilled the Orphanage Director for 2 hours, couldn't understand why no birthmother or DNA results were there, and gave no indication of when they would approve the case.
** I know of several abandonment cases which were APPROVED and SIGNED by the former PGN, but never came down to the attorneys where the attorney has not been called in for an interview. Must those children, mainly in institutions, languish longer and for what purpose?
We need to call upon our DOS and Consul General to mediate these issues on behalf of the U.S.families and the children they are adopting.
Hannah Wallace, Pres.Focus On Adoption
Posted by: Hannah Wallace at May 12, 2008 12:49 PMTHank you Hannah, Finally a voice of reason. I spoke at length with DOS and they are hands off and feel they cannot tell the Soveriegn nation what to do. However I agree that SOMEBODY NEEDS TO BACK THE US FAMILIES. THis is a complete and utter mess and nothing short of a three ring circus. Who is representing the adoptive parents at these interviews and what about our rights???
Hannah,
I really can not disagree with anything you said. My comment on the legality of these interviews came from a few "objective" attorneys, not me. I don't know enough about the law but as soon as the CRC starts getting thrown around, we all know what it can mean. And certainly political motivations are always likely, although it's hard to say that the current administration has much control over the courts.
I have never said that I agree with these interviews, just that I understand why someone with good intentions might take this route. I think that the days to come will be quite telling in figuring out what the true intentions are with all of this.
I of course agree with respecting the birthmothers. I also know that there are some things one can not prevent a free press from doing. The issue of representation is a double sided sword. Assuming a case is clean then obviously having the attorney to protect the birthmother is a good idea. But we also know that at times the perpetrator of undue pressure/coercion could be that same person and then it is a difficult can of worms. What is truly sad and pathetic is that the distrust and possible motivations are so bad on all sides(in some cases, I'm not making a sweeping statement) that it seems impossible to have an honest, objective broker in all of this.
Kevin
Guatadopt.com
Hannah,
Thank you for your comments. It's so crazy that the DOS and the US Embassy keeps telling us that they cannot interfere, but we all know how strongly they interfered to implement the Hague in THIER timeframe.
Can you guide us PAPs in the right direction or help us organize our efforts? I really want to be heard. Someone?
Anyone?
I would be willing to do something, but need guidance.
Thanks,
Has anyone heard if the PGN has released any cases today??
Posted by: Gina at May 12, 2008 04:35 PMHas anyone heard of any cases that might have been releast today? Does anyone know if there was any interviews today? Any updates of any kind!
Thanks Julia
DADAHHHH - nothing. We had our interview, apparently pretty non-eventful but the lawyers don't really say much. So the agency doesn't know much either. Just that all went fine. They have no idea about when the files are being released as PGN will tell the lawyers nothing. I was told by the agency that I should call PGN and maybe get some info. So I did. I was told we're still on the 2nd reviewers desk. I then stated that we had our BM interview yesterday and did she know when our file would be released... "hmm ... next week!" Whether that's true or not or she was just pulling a rabbit out of her hat I couldn't tell. If anyone else hears anything please post.
Best to all - susan pap
Has anyone heard about what is currently happening at the PGN? They told my lawyer that after our b-mom interview, our case would be ready in 3 days to pick up. Well surprise, surprise, they wouldn't release it today. I'm wondering if they will ever let it (them) out. And they have no reason to hold it. It's been reviewed, signed, re-reviewed and interviewed. What else do they need????
Posted by: G at May 13, 2008 07:12 PMDoes anyone know what is happening in PGN? Are they releasing cases, interviewing birhtmothers? or what.
praying for us all.
Hello,
I just wanted to share info on our experience right now with BCs and PGN.
We are in the process of 2 adoptions and the cases are in different stages.
For our first baby...
I just wanted to confirm that we have experienced BC problems due to PGN's hold. We were told by our agency in mid-April that our case had final approval/ release from PGN. We know that the request for the BC was made within the next week. However this past Tues our agency informed us that "at the present the PGN has put a hold on all documents (BC) to be released from the local Civil Registries or RENAP".
For our second baby, our agency just confirmed with the attorney that the PGN accepted this second case this past week.
The BC problem is the most frustrating. We thought the green light was on for getting the final documents together and we were so excited. I guess in these times you can not let yourself get too up or too down. Things seem to be changing a bit every day.
We all have to keep the faith.
Maggie