Two stories are out there in the US and Guatemalan Press. An AP story speaks of 15 cases being annulled by PGN because of improprieties. A story in the Prensa Libre speaks to 80 attorneys being under investigation by the Ministerio Publico because of false documents. We of course can not speak to the validity of these stories, we're only reporting what is being published. Both stories, and their links, can be found by clicking on more.
Prensa Libre Story (internet translated): http://www.prensalibre.com/pl/2008/mayo/21/239796.html
The Public Department investigates some 80 lawyers that would have incurred in illegalities in the processes of adoption that deal with before the attorney general's office of the Nation (PGN), reported today the public prosecutor against the Crime Organized, Jorge Donated.
The public prosecutor said today journalists that the investigations against the lawyers, they initiated after the PGN presented the respective accusations, "after finding evidences of anomalies in the processes of adoption".
The holder of the PGN, Budilio Gap, ordered last May 5 to suspend some two thousand 300 children adoptions processes that still are dealt with for the notarial way, by to have been initiated before charged force the new Law of Adoptions, the ones that will be revised before giving them the seen good.
These processes were revised by officials of the PGN and the recently created National Counsel of Adoptions, to determine if the children that would be given in adoption are in reality children of the parents that appear in the documents negotiated by private lawyers.
Among the anomalies detected by the PGN in the continued processes by the jurists, they found false directions where supposedly they were found the smaller as well as identity documents alteration and forgery as a token of DNA.
Scores of lawyers, medical, nurses and nannies integrate extensive networks that are dedicated to deal with adoptions of Guatemalan children to be given to foreign families, a "business" that has left annual profits of to 200 million dollars.
AP Story: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080522/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/guatemala_adoptions_4
GUATEMALA CITY - Guatemala's attorney general said Wednesday he has annulled 15 pending adoptions to U.S. couples after finding evidence of fraud or other irregularities.
Attorney General Baudilio Portillo suspended all of Guatemala's 2,286 pending adoption cases in early May to investigate them.
The 15 annulled cases represent nearly 10 percent of the 160 cases that have been reviewed thus far. Another 2,126 must still be investigated.
The 145 cases that were not annulled were allowed to move forward.
"We believe that, over time, the number of cases with irregularities will grow in the same proportion," Jorge Meng, the attorney general's office spokesman, told The Associated Press.
The babies whose cases have been annulled will be put in foster homes until a judge locates their parents. If their parents aren't found, they will be put up for adoption again.
It was not clear if the U.S. couples affected had been notified.
The irregularities were serious enough that the attorney general filed criminal complaints against lawyers, doctors, social workers and birth mothers involved in the 15 cases, Meng said.
Guatemala has been plagued by allegations of adoption fraud, including claims that babies are stolen from their birth parents or even sold by poor birth mothers.
A new law that went into effect in January is aimed at cleaning up the system by creating an independent council to oversee adoptions.
Before the council was created, private lawyers and notaries did everything from recruit pregnant women to obtain U.S. visas for the adopted children. The process was expensive, costing U.S. couples about US$30,000 (euro19,000) for each child.
But it was fast, usually lasting less than six months. That made Guatemala the second largest source of adopted children to U.S. couples, after China.
The new system is expected to be less expensive, but also slower. Adoptive parents will be assigned babies, instead of being able to choose them from a set of pictures, as they did before.
Bureaucratic delays kept the council from being able to process adoptions until just recently, and few new adoption cases have been started under the new law.
Posted by Kevin at May 21, 2008 10:25 PMJust wanted to let families know that if they were a victim to one of these corrupt individuals and lose their referral and can not complete the adoption, they can file criminal charges against them for the finances that were lost.
You would need to hire an atty in Guat to represent you before the courts.
This was part of our case to get back the money if the man refused to give us the custody paperwork and the info needed to find the birth mother.
The public ministry forced him to give us what we needed and he still stalled for 6 months without giving us the birth mother info needed to give her notice of the family court interview. We lost $20,000 and my attys, said I could go after him still for that money cause all he did was translate our dossier, but we decided against it, because we just wanted to be finished with him and not deal with his threats anymore.
But, in short, once the PGN filed the criminal charges, I believe the names should then be public knowledge. I would hope that Guatadopt or someone can post the names so that these criminals do not make attempts to get more money from PAP's before they/themselves go under/get arrested or have to fight the criminal charges.
Some people do flee the country when the charges are made and many of these facilitator/attys, etc have U.S. bank accounts, where their moneys have been hidden or kept in.
Anyways, I hope we get a list, so PAP's can protect themselves, and also file charges if needs be. Also, PAP's can file charges against their U.S. agencies, too.
At the rate this article says, this can happen, by the end they expect at least 228 adoptions to not be completed due to corruption.
I'm very sorry for any PAP who loses a referral through this. I hope that those children who were kidnapped or were victims of being sold or other abuses in the past adoption system are taken care of and their families are found or they are safe and if they have no family, maybe the PAP can ask to be assigned to them if the courts say that they can be adopted again in the future.
I hope all the children without homes, who sleep tonight in a bed in a hogar, orphanage or foster family, can very soon be reunited with their family or be quickly set free from PGN to be united with their adoptive family asap.
Posted by: airstar98 at May 22, 2008 12:01 AMThank you! Very well written.
We are in the same situation. Lost referral and lost funds all due to corruption.
The AP story said that the 145 cases that were not annulled were allowed to move forward. We had signature and were waiting for release before PGN closed. Our BM interview went well and no problems were found. We have not been released. To me that is not allowing cases to move forward.
It would be interesting to know which attorneys are under investigation. Especially considering so many attornies seem to be asking for extra monthly fees, as they see adoptions taking longer due to the increased scrutiny and PGN birth mother inverviews.
Also, it is easy to jump to a conclusion, but it seems that Guatemala is not wanting to honor their committment to complete cases that were GrandFathered.
It is very disheartening. Given all this happenings, who is putting the children first?
Why is there not strong public, visible adoption community adovcacy as there was in the fall?
Posted by: Lorna at May 22, 2008 10:46 AMThank you Lorna - my thoughts exactly.
Where is the adoption community?
Where is the Joint Council?
Posted by: allison at May 22, 2008 11:33 AMLorna asks "Why is there not strong public, visible adoption community adovcacy as there was in the fall?"
This is just a guess, because there are probably lots of reasons, but in the fall, the cry for grandfathered cases was that it is right to let those cases continue that started in good faith under the old laws. That seems to be a righteous position. But now, in light of the fact that PGN is uncovering corruption (real or not), I don't know how you can position the "movement" so it doesn't sound like you are advocating for cases to move forward whether they are corrupt or not. And that would not be a righteous position, verdad?
I can't imagine what all of you waiting for your children are feeling right now. I wish you all happy endings (including your children to grow up knowing their family of birth willingly relinquished them).
Our attorney has asked for an additional $500 each month until finalized. Are the majority of attorneys asking for these fees? I was surprised and not sure what to think about this additional fee... I know that the attorneys are working hard and having to deal with all of this extra work including care of the children in foster care. I am quite positive that my attorney is NOT under investigation, since he is very reputable and our first adoption with him went very well. Still, I am nervous and can't help but wonder if paying extra money relaxes the pressure for him to get things done quickly. Are others experiencing this?
Posted by: Karen at May 22, 2008 11:38 AMI'm in this boat too, thanks to corruption on our agencies part and in Guatemala. We are now dealing with authorities who won't listen. We have lost $30k out of pocket and two toddler girl referrals, 18 months of hell. I hope all the names are made public.
Posted by: M.B. at May 22, 2008 02:39 PMHeather, my atty told me that once the interviews take place then the files are moved to another location where they wait to be released, that is if they have no criminal charges filed against those who facilitated the case. So cases are considered "moved forward" when they are moved to that room and out of investigations.
Lorna, the PGN has the legal right to investigate the cases throughly before they approve the case. This was their legal right prior to the new law, but the old PGN was very corrupt and he bribes were given for him to look the other way and approve cases. That's why the corruption has gone all for so long and why the new PGN is having to do the interviews to weed out the bad attys and hold them accountable for their behaviors that were illegal.
Now, the NCA has no legal right to investigate the cases. They were only to register them and if they saw irregularities, then they need to report them to the PGN and to the authorities.
The Grandfather Clause deals with two main issues that I know of:
One that we are not required meet any new requirements that those international PAP's in the future will have to meet.
The only thing we have needed to provide above and beyond is a detailed application to NCA, not just a a case to register, but we had to fill out that whole form, but children were in danger and their was evidence of corruption, so to protect the children and deal with the corruption, we had to fill out more.
Second, if Guat was not honoring the grandfather clause, then they would pull your referral from you immediately, because according to the clause, your child needs to first be offered to any extended family, then if no one can adopt the child, a home for the child is looked for in the country of Guatemala, and after all this time of searching, if no family is found for the child, then, they will consider an International family and also, they would match you with a child based on their your application, their opinion, and their social workers recommendations.
Soooo, as you can see, the PGN is honoring the grandfather clause by allowing in process cases to be completed, that is those cases where they have no evidence of corruption.
I know this is a difficult time for us all, but I was at the meeting with the attys and the PGN and I did get to see and hear Flory De Leon the PGN director of Adoption and also the new Attorney General Baudilio.
And, I also read Flory's Interview with the Press and I do have faith in the New PGN.
I personally do believe that we will see cases getting approved, but we will also see cases not getting approved because of the corruption.
It's sad to see any case not get approved, but having experienced the corruption first hand, I am very relieved, that someone is now looking out for the children and criminals are being held accountable for their actions.
Someone in the forum asked me my take on all since I was able to be at the meeting and because of our past experience with the corruption and having to hire additional Guat attys to help us.
So, I'm going to cut and paste my response from the forum dated May 15.
I've talked to my atty since then and I still feel the same on all the points.
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***MY THOUGHTS OF THIS INTERVIEW AND OVERALL FEELING FOR DE LEON ATTY OVER ADOPTIONS AT PGN ARE IN CAPS.***
GTNews: The Verification Process in Adoptions
« on: May 12, 2008, 05:30:35 AM »
De Leon: "The verification process has already begun"
Link: http://www.prensalibre.com/pl/2008/mayo/12/236989.html
By Lorraine Seijas and Gonzalo Marroquin w.
Flory De Leon, Assistant Attorney General's Office, stressed that the process of verification and transparency of the process of adoption has already begun, and they expect that not extending much beyond one month.
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What irregularities have been found in the proceedings?
So far, we have not detected irregularities in the past in the process but that is the reason we may know more while reviewing each case carefully. Our responsibility begins with adoptions which are approved from now.
DE LEON STATES WHY THEY ARE ONLY FOCUSING ON ADOPTIONS THAT NEED APPROVAL NOW, BECAUSE THAT IS THEIR JOB. IT IS NOT THEIR JOB TO GO AFTER CASES OF CHILDREN ALREADY IN THE U.S.
NOW, NCA IS TRYING TO GO AFTER/INVESTIGATE OTHERS AND THAT IS NOT LEGAL. THEY WERE ONLY ALLOWED TO REGISTER CASES, IF THEY SUSPECT BREAKING OF THE LAW THEN THEY SHOULD REPORT IT TO PGN SO THEY CAN RED FLAG OTHER CASES WHO MAY BE ASSOCIATED WITH THE CORRUPT INDIVIDUALS AND THEY SHOULD REPORT THE LAW BREAKERS TO THE POLICE AND PUBLIC MINISTRY. THE NCA HAS NO LEGAL RIGHT TO DO INVESTIGATIONS.
NOW, THE PGN DOES HAVE LEGAL RIGHTS TO INVESTIGATE, ESPECIALLY IF THEY HAVE EVIDENCE THAT LAW WERE BROKEN BY THOSE WHO ARE ATTEMPTING TO GET THEIR CASES APPROVED. PGN SHOULD INVESTIGATE BECAUSE THESE PEOPLE ARE USUALLY TIED TO SEVERAL CHILDREN WHO COULD HAVE BEEN VICTIMS AND THEY ARE VERY CUNNING, THAT'S HOW THEY GOT BY ALL THIS TIME BREAKING THE LAW, SO PGN SHOULD NOT GIVE AWAY THEIR INFORMATION THAT IS NEEDED TO CONDUCT THE INVESTIGATION.
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What will happen to notaries who do not present the mother and baby and/o make excuses?
It will take into consideration the reason for this, distance or the location of mothers, if they live far away, we will give them a new interview date, but if she does not appear, other measures will be taken which has not yet defined by the prosecutor. But if you do not have the child, it will then proceed with the Public Prosecutor's Office.
*** OPPS SORRY, I FORGOT TO CAP THIS ALL BUT HERE IT IS ... De Leon is saying, in my understanding that she will work with situations where the birth mother can not be located or attend an interview. She says, "If she does not appear, other measures will be taken which has not yet defined by the prosecutor", for example, if they have reason to believe the bio mom did something illegal, like misrepresented themselves, then they may file charges against them, if they suspect that their was no real bio mom but a stand in, then they may go after the atty/facilitator and file criminal charges, if there is a real valid reason why the bio mom can not be there and their is documentation to support that absence then MAYBE THE BIO MOM WILL NOT BE REQUIRED, HOWEVER, THERE DE LEON STATES THAT NO EXCUSE CAN BE GIVEN OR TAKEN FOR NOT HAVING THE CHILD, AND IF THE CHILD DOES NOT SHOW, THE PGN WILL THEN REPORT THE CASE TO THE PUBLIC PROSECUTOR'S OFFICE.
SO, I SEE A WAY TO WORK WITH SITUATIONS WERE THE BIO MOM ABSOLUTELY CANNOT BE THERE, BUT THERE IS NO EXCUSE AT ALL FOR THE CHILD NOT BEING BROUGHT TO BE SEEN BY THE PGN. ***
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Do these notaries have reason to feel worried?
People who conduct its proceedings according to law will not have any problems.
DE LEON'S RESPONSE TO THIS IS SO PROFESSIONAL, SHE TAKES THE FOCUS OFF OF NOTARIES BEING WORRIED AND PUTS THE FOCUS ON THE CRIMINALS WHO SHOULD BE WORRIED BECAUSE THEY WILL BE FOUND OUT. SO, SHE DOES SAY THAT IF YOU DID NOTHING WRONG YOU SHOULD NOT WORRY AT ALL.
WHICH I KNOW DOES NOT HELP WITH PAPS STRESS, BECAUSE THERE IS NO WAY FOR THEM TO KNOW IF THEIR ATTY DID SOMETHING WRONG. I TAKE SOME REST IN THIS, CAUSE I LEFT MY AGENCY AND FILED CRIMINAL CHARGES ALREADY AGAINST MY FACILITATOR, SO I KNOW BEYOND ALL DOUBT THAT WE HAVE DONE NOTHING WRONG. BUT, I DO STILL FEEL FOR THOSE PAPS WHO DO NOT KNOW FOR SURE.
NOW, WE DID HAVE SOME EXPERIENCE WTH THE CRIMINAL COURTS/PUBLIC MINISTRY AND I CAN TELL YOU FROM EXPERIENCE THAT THEY DO NOT JUST GO ON WITCH HUNTS, THE ATTYS HAVE TO SUBMIT DETAILS OF THE WHAT HAPPENED, IN FACT THEY REQUIRED ME TO TELL EVERY DETAIL AND THAT TOOK A WHOLE DAY, THEN I HAD TO WRITE A TIME LINE AND THAT WAS 20+ PAGES, SO THEY DO NOT TAKE CHARGES LIGHTLY, SO IF PGN FILES CHARGES WITH THE PUBLIC MINISTRY, I PERSONALLY THINK THEY HAVE GOOD REASON TO DO SO.
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How can you verify that the mother confirms its willingness to give her child up for adoption is the true mother, beyond the DNA test?
If there are doubts of that we will then repeat the test DNA; besides being requested to bring the cedula and the birth certificates of the child, and will take great care to determine that there are no alterations of documents.
DE LEON IS SAYING THAT THEY WILL ONLY DO THE EXTRA DNA TEST ON CASES WHERE THERE IS SUSPICION THAT SOMETHING MAY HAVE BEEN ILLEGAL. I THINK THIS IS GOOD THAT THE PGN IS NOT TRYING TO STOP THE ADOPTIONS BUT ONLY INVESTIGATE THOSE WHERE THERE ARE CONCERNS/DOUBTS.
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And if any?
If we find anomalies we have an obligation to immediately bring this to a complaint.
DE LEON AGAIN SAYS THAT THEY WILL FILE A COMPLAINT/REPORT ANOMALIES.
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Since it was given the suspension has been there been any in-process cased finalized?
No, we're doing the verification and processing before it could authorize adoptions.
THIS TELLS ME THAT THEY NOW REALIZE THAT EVEN IF THEY WANT TO RELEASE APPROVED FILES, THEY FEEL THAT THEY CANNOT RELEASE ANY UNTIL THE VERIFICATION AND PROCESSING IS COMPLETED.
NOW THIS IS JUST HYPOTHETICAL, BUT WHAT IF THEY HAVE LEGITIMATE FILES WITH NO PROBLEMS READY TO BE RELEASED BUT THEY ALSO HAVE FILES WITH SUSPICION OF CORRUPTION. IF THEY ONLY RELEASED THOSE FILES THAT WERE OK, AND NOT THE OTHERS, THEN THAT WOULD GIVE THE ATTYS/FACILITATORS WHOM ARE BEING INVESTIGATED A HEADS UP AND THEY COULD LEAVE THE COUNTRY OR MOVE THE OTHER CHILDREN THEY HAVE OR NOT SUBMIT THE OTHER CASES TO PGN AND THAT COULD ENDANGER CHILDREN'S LIVES.
RIGHT NOW NO ONE REALLY KNOWS WHO THE PGN IS GOING AFTER AND WHY WOULD THE PGN GIVE ANY INDICATION OF THOSE THEY ARE INVESTIGATING WHEN THE PGN CANNOT FIND THE CHILDREN. THE LAST THING THEY NEED IS CHILDREN BEING IN DANGER AND THE AUTHORITIES HAVING NO WAY TO LOCATE THEM. SO, MAYBE THEY WILL WAIT TO RELEASE THE FILES UNTIL THEY FEEL CONFIDENT THAT THEY HAVE TABS ON ALL THE CORRUPT INDIVIDUALS THEY PLAN TO GO AFTER.
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Are you aware of the 637 cases approved by the previous attorney?
Unfortunately we have no knowledge about that or how that was done. Somehow you will need to investigate, but the Attorney General may assist in any investigation is made.
SO THE 637 CASES WILL LIKELY BE INVESTIGATED BUT DE LEON'S PRIORITY IS THE CASES STILL IN PROCESS AND THE ONE WHO WILL INVESTIGATE THESE COMPLETED CASES WILL BE THE NEW ATTORNEY GENERAL.
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Is reviewing the state of health of the child?
Yes is being taken into account, we have a doctor who is corroborating and assessing children who appear to be abused or have any health problems.
SO, HERE THEY AGAIN ARE ONLY REVIEWING THE HEALTH OF CHILDREN WHO APPEAR TO BE ABUSED OR HAVE HEALTH PROBLEMS. WHICH I THINK IS A REALLY GOOD IDEAL, SINCE MY LITTLE GIRL WAS SO SICK AT ONLY 8 DAYS OLD!!! WE TOOK HER TO THE EMBASSY APPROVED DOCTOR AND POOR THING AT ONLY 8 DAYS OLD WAS SUFFERING FROM A HERNIA, THRUST AND A YEAST INFECTION THAT LEFT HER COVERED IN RED BLISTERS. AND GET THIS, MY AGENCY WOULD BRAG THAT THE FACILITATOR WAS A DOCTOR!!! HOW DID A DOCTOR LET A LITTLE GIRL IN THE FIRST 8 DAYS OF HER LIFE GET SO SICK. I ALSO HAD HEARD FROM OTHER FAMILIES WHO HAD CHILDREN WITH THESE PEOPLE THAT THEIR CHILDREN WERE SUFFERING. ONE PAP HAD TO LET GO OF THE REFERRAL BECAUE THE CHILD WAS DOING SO BAD THAT THEY DID NOT FEEL THEY COULD MEET THE SPECIAL NEEDS OF THE CHILD THAT WERE DEVELOPING DUE TO THE MALNURISHMENT AND THE NEGLECT. THIS FAMILY PAID TWO THOUSAND EXTRA JUST FOR THEM TO TAKE THE BABY TO THE DOCTOR, THE DOCTOR GOT ON THEM AND TOLD THEM THE CHILD WAS SUFFERING FOR MALNURISHMENT AND NEGLECT AND REQUESTED TO FOLLOW UP WITH THE BABY TO MAKE SURE THE BABY WAS GETTING BETTER, HOWEVER THE FACILITATORS NEVER TOOK THE BABY BACK. I KNOW THE DOCTOR PROBABLY COST AT THE MOST $30 DOLLARS BUT THE FACILITATORS GOT THE PAP'S TO PAY $2,000 FOR THEM TO TAKE THE BABY TO THE DOCTOR!!! UGGGG.... THERE ARE MANY OTHER PAPS WHO HAVE EXPRESSED CONCERN FOR THEIR CHILD'S WELL BEING, IN ADDITION TO FOSTER MOM'S WHO REPORT THAT THE FACILITATORS WOULD NOT GIVE THEM THE MONEY FOR FORMULA AND THE OTHER ITEMS THE BABIES NEEDED. SO, I AGREE THAT PGN SHOULD MAKE SURE THE BABY IS SAFE AND BEING TAKEN CARE OF.
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According to the CNA said, there is duplication of DNA testing, what do you know of any?
On that I can not say yet, that's why we are conducting this review.
SHE CAN'T COMMENT CAUSE IT COULD HINDER THE INVESTIGATION. WHICH I UNDERSTAND.
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How long will it take?
Well, let's try it in the shortest possible time; obviously we do not want it to be a career out of this or who is to be superficial neither, it seems that it would be more or less a month, but all this can be extended.
DE LEON TELL US A MONTH, SO WE JUST HAVE TO WAIT AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS IN A MONTH.
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How many subpoenas will be carried out per day?
Roughly about 50.
NOT MUCH HERE, JUST THAT THEY DO INTEND ON CONTINUING THE INTERVIEWS EVERYDAY.
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What you know about the reporting of false addresses of the nurseries in the files?
Ehh, I cannot speak about it.
AGAIN, SHE CANNOT COMMENT BECAUSE IT COULD HINDER THE INVESTIGATIONS.
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Have you been under pressure from abroad or here to expedite the paperwork?
No nothing, from no one nothing, this is being coordinated directly by the Attorney General.
I THINK THIS IS VERY GOOD THAT DE LEON CAN REPORT THAT NO ONE/ NOT ONE U.S. FAMILY OR REPRESENTATIVE HAS PUT PRESSURE ON THEM TO EXPEDITE THE PAPERWORK. EXPEDITE CAN ALSO BE SEEN AS BRIBES. THE PGN, FROM WHAT I UNDERSTAND IS NOW DEALING WITH CASES IN THE ORDER OF RESUBMIT DATES. SO THOSE CASES THAT WERE SUBMITTED OR RE-SUBMITTED IN MARCH WILL BE PROCESSED BEFORE THOSE SUBMITTED OR RE-SUBMITTED IN APRIL, ETC.
*** I'M JUST TRYING TO HAVE PATIENCE AND TRUST THE PGN AND ALTHOUGH I FEEL SO BAD FOR THOSE PAPS WHO MAY FACE HARD WATERS, LIKE THOSE AT THE CHILDREN'S HOME THAT WAS RAIDED, I REMEMBER THE DANGER MY LITTLE GIRL WAS IN WHEN THE OLD FACILITATOR WAS TRYING TO KIDNAP HER AND GET HER BACK TO SELL, SO, OVER ALL I HOPE THE CHILDREN WHO WERE VICTIMS ARE FOUND, EVEN IF IT MEANS THE PGN WILL BE CONDUCTING RAIDS, I JUST HOPE THAT IF THEY TAKE CUSTODY OF ANY CHILDREN WHO ARE IN PROCESS WITH NO PROBLEMS IN THEIR PAPERWORK THAT THE PGN WILL ALLOW THE PAP TO COMPLETE THE ADOPTION.
*** OH!!! ALSO WANTED TO ADD FOR WHOEVER READS THIS THAT THEIR IS PAP/PAPS WHO PLAN TO DO A HUNGER STRIKE IN FRONT OF PGN. I DO NOT AGREE WITH THIS AND THERE ARE MANY MORE PAPS WHO ALSO DO NOT AGREE WITH THIS. SO PLEASE, DO NOT FEEL THAT JUST BECAUSE A FEW PAPS MAY DO A HUNGER STRIKE IN FRONT OF PGN, THIS STRIKE REPRESENTS ALL PAPS. ***
I CAN TELL YOU NOW IT DOES NOT REPRESENT ME AND I DO FEEL THAT PGN NEEDS TO HAVE THE SUPPORT OF ALL PAPS IN PROCESS IN THAT WE WILL BE PATIENCE AND TRUST THEM THAT THEY WILL QUICKLY SET FREE ALL CASES WHERE NO CORRUPTION IS PRESENT.
I ASK THAT THE PGN, AT LEAST, WITH THE MONTH DEADLINE IS UP IN A WEEK, PLEASE GIVE US AN UPDATE AND PLEASE DO NOT DELAY IN APPROVING CASES THAT ARE FOUND TO BE LEGIT.
I still am concerned that PGN is going out of its way to sabatoge adoptions. The citations for Bio Mom interview sometimes only allow a day or two notice from what I´ve heard. My child´s bio mom lives a 16 hour bus ride away. What if they reschedule, and she finds herself in the hospital with some kind of illness? Here is the bottom line--the bio mom went through family court, DNA testing, and everything required to relinquish her child. In fact, she even went to PGN several months ago to reconfirm her wishes to place her child because PGN wanted to verify this. NOW, if she doesn´t make this appointment for whatever reason, even though she appeared at PGN several months ago and the DNA test shows that she is clearly the bio mom, my child (who is 20 months old-and yes, we´ve been in this sickening process for that long) may be stuck in a orphanage for the rest of her life? Give me a break. There is nothing whatsoever ´grandfathered´about that.
Posted by: anonymous at May 22, 2008 03:26 PMAirstar - thank you for your information. I do not think they are doing the interviews by order of submission dates, many folks who were resubmitted in April have already had their while their are many in March who still have not- can you shed any light on this.
While i agree with you about the cases where the child was stolen or false id and papers given all other should be approved especiually if the paperwork is is in order and the mother willingly gave up the child - I do not agree that an adoption should be stopped if all paperwork is in order and is legit and the mother gave up willingly. i think there are some attorney's /facilitators that have done stupid things on some cases and not all - like in the case of your facilitator who did illegal things does that mean those cases should not go through if all paperwork is legit and mother willingly gave them up? Just trying to understand your line of reasoning here. It sounds like you are saying that if an attny or facilitator made one mistake on one file then all the files are corrupt. if that is the case then I would think your case is suspect to them, No?
Posted by: Just wondering at May 22, 2008 04:26 PMFinally, a news story is out about waiting adoptive parents :
http://tinyurl.com/64rffl
I do hope they start releasing 'approved' cases soon (ie successful BM interview and no issues with documents) so that we can rest a little easier seeing some progress. My heart breaks for those PAPs who followed the rules and invested their hearts and $ but are now losing their referrals.
Posted by: LeAnn at May 22, 2008 06:09 PMOk, if the people in Guatemala are being prosecuted then what about the agencies here in the US who knowingly hired them? Can they also be prosecuted once there is an established connection between the individuals?
Our hearts go out to all those who are waiting for their children!
About the resubmit date being used for interviews. Of you who've have interviews - were you back in PGN for the last time in Feb? We are March with both cases and haven't been called yet. Oh am I tired of so much talk and so little movement!
Just Wondering:
When our case encountered corruption, we cut ties with our U.S. agency, and filed charges against the Guat facilitator who had $20,000 of our money for twin referrals, who told us they were drying. We lost them and he gave us a new referral, and then stalled for months, finally after 6 months, we go to DNA and meet the birth mother and do the test.
Everything seemed great, until he told us that someone else wanted our baby and we had to pay him $22,000 to keep our baby and for him to finish the adoption.
At that point we realized he was corrupt and reported it to the Embassy who told us that they could not help us and that we had to deal with the child's own country, so we then had to hire new attys, including a criminal atty to go after this man. We filed charges with the Public Ministry who forced him to give us our dossier and her paperwork or go to jail.
The corrupt facilitator had the nerve to tell the court that he wanted the baby back and he would not pay us our $20,000 back because it was a donation!!!
But, they knew he was lying, so he had to give us our dossier and also, he was ordered to give us the contact info for the birth mother so that we could notify her of her family court interview.
The public ministry also had the birth mother come in, to verify if she still wanted to place her baby for adoption, which she did verify and signed the new custody over to my atty so that I could immigrate the baby and adopt her in the U.S.
Now, our family court interview was delayed another 6 months, because this man lied day after day for 6 months before he finally gave us the contact info for the birth mother so that she could be notified of the family court meeting. Not only did it take 6 months, but it also took 3 private investigators to locate her!!!
Anyways, our case in PGN should have no problems, because my new atty took it over and she is very well respected and already all her interviews have gone very smooth.
I know that ADA down plays the reason's for the criminal charges, but the truth, whether it a little crime or a big crime, it's still breaking the law.
We've been living in the country almost two years doing everything we can to not break the law, including bribes, we refused to pay them and got stuck in PGN while Barrios kept saying he would sign the case, while really just delaying us and letting others out who probably paid.
I took my little girl their to PGN the day of the meeting and they said, why did you not come months ago. A lot of families came months ago and got out right away!!!
I told my atty that and my attys said that, this is why they are investigating too, because those cases probably included bribes.
I hope that someone can get info on the real charges, because criminal attys won't take a case unless they think they can win it and obviously criminal charges consist more of simply filling out a form incorrect.
*Oh, also, I asked my atty if the PGN was following a system based on re-submit date and she did say that their system doe not make sense.
On the forum many of the early April re-submits have moved to the second reviewer and have not been scheduled for interview yet, but I guess we really don't know.
Also, it's possible that some cases may not require an interview.
Posted by: airstar98 at May 22, 2008 09:14 PMMarie,
I just read the latest article you translated for us on the forum titled, "80 Lawyers Denounced".
http://guatadopt.com/discussions/index.php?topic=6953.0;topicseen
You wrote, "*We are trying to obtain the list from the CNA and from our other Guate sources, please have patience as we try to do this. Thanks in advance for your patience and understanding. Marie and the Guat Team"
Another family just IMed me with the story of their case and I emailed them back to see if I can post the story here, but basically they have lost their referral and their atty is under investigation and it's way more than an error on the paperwork, hopefully, she will get back to me soon and/or post the story herself.
But, an atty with Adoption Supervisors is ready to take her case, cause what happened was the facilitator hid behind the agency and the atty and so their name is not on any of the paperwork, but many of the times, the facilitators are the ones who receive the $10,000 plus at the beginning and the $10,000 plus at the end. So she wants to file charges against the facilitator too.
(As a side note, our facilitator's name was not any of the paperwork also, they hid too, but we had copies of the cashier's checks made out to them and our atty submitted them to the court. They actually submitted a lot of the evidence I saved, not even knowing it was evidence, just for me, documentation, such as the picture of the facilitator handing me my little girl for the first time and my attys, showed that they did give over the child to me with the picture.
What I'm wondering is if you can get that list, because if families what to file charges, my attys told me that if more than one person files charges then the courts weigh this considerable and with our case we knew of 5 other families who were with the corrupt facilitator and our agency. We told our agency that they could be part of our case but the agency felt they could handle the facilitator on their own. I still have no ideal if the children ever got home. Also, we didn't need them because the Public Ministry/Criminal Courts saw through this and they made the corrupt facilitator give us our dossier back and the baby's papers or go to jail.
Is there some way you can have a form, to organize a support group for those families who were victims to a specific atty, facilitator, etc.
Also, Kevin, Kelly, Marie and the rest of the team, than you sooooooooooooooo much for all your help and for the website and the forum :)
Some of the charges that were filed against the corrupt facilitator were: being a swindler (he took the money but didn't do anything on our case besides translate our dossier, and lie to us for month after month with excuses), and he put harm to us on purpose. There were some other's too, that I just can't remember right now.
Posted by: airstar98 at May 23, 2008 02:12 PMKaren,
The $500 a month extra does not seen legitimate--who knows how long the process could take! Our adoption agency did not tack on any fees regardless of how long the process took. I would look back at the original documents you signed.
We are very upset and heartbroken due to just finding out(2 hours ago) that our daughter was take away from her fostermother. My case is one of the 15. What do I do now!! I can not even think, right now.
Posted by: D-chicago at May 27, 2008 11:36 PMD-chicago,
I just wanted to say that I am very sorry, this happen to you. I have no ideal what will happen in your case. I've heard from PGN's point of view that when they take a child, they consider it a "rescue". I know that doesn't make what happen any easier, but it could actually protect your child more so than if they were left with the foster parent/atty/facilitator, etc, who is under investigation.
Try and keep the faith, maybe they will still let you continue the adoption under the NCA, but I'm sure it will mean more delays while the investigations and going on.
Again I am so sorry and I hope that you still get an opportunity to adopt the baby when the investigations are completed.
Please join the forum and post there, because there are a lot of great people on the forum and it's a real help to have other's to talk to.
Airstar,
In the interview that you posted what cases of children already in the US does this allude to? Is the NCA trying to investigate cases of children already in the US?
I adopted two children from Guatemala in the mid ninties - my oldest just turned 13 and the youngest is nearly 11 - in reading these posts it is apparent that some things, like Guatemalan adoption - never changed - I could tell you stories of crooked attorneys and facilitators that would have you reeling - but in the end I used a reputable agency and got my second child home - the first was a NIGHTMARE - live and learn - good luck to all of you -
Posted by: mcccmar45 at June 26, 2008 02:00 PMWe are also one of the 15cases!! Is there a group for families who have been victimized and can not continue?
DF-Indiana