Before getting into the meat of this, we want one thing to be perfectly clear. Guatadopt is trying very hard to validate what is happening, remain "objective", and provide our readers with as accurate of information as possible. We realize that many of the things we are posting can be interpreted as explanations and endorsements because we are not going on the attack. Those would be incorrect interpretations. We also know full and well that some of things could be logically explained even if officials are seeing them as nefarious. But at the moment, there is so much spin out there but we feel our role is best served by being as journalistic as possible.
Interviews are moving along. There are problems happening. Most are still going short and sweet. In cases where the interviewers suspect anything, the interviews are becoming more intense and much longer, with some last as long as 90 minutes. In the event that the interviewer is not satisfied, the child and birthmother are being put before a judge. In some cases the judge says there is no basis for concern and everything is allowed to proceed. If the judge believes there is reason for more investigation, the child is being removed from foster care and placed in a hogar pending the result of the investigation which we all know can take quite a while to complete.
The 15 cases which were reported as annulled are in this state of investigation. The word annulled is a misnomer from what we know. Pending the result of the investigation those cases will or will not be allowed to continue.
Problems are arising during the interviews. Some birthmoms are very nervous. Some are not able to answer what are considered to be simple questions such as what is the child’s name, where was he/she born, when was he/she born. Some are saying they have no idea why they were brought to PGN (not to be confused with that they don’t know about the adoption). These are just a few examples.
There are some attorneys and agencies who are known to have shady dealings and their interviews are likely automatically more intense. We do not have a list of who those are but it is fair to say that if you are working with the folks who have been exposed in the media, it may mean a more extensive interview.
We have been told from “reliable sources” that cases which cleared the interviews are poised for imminent release. But we’ve heard that before - although it is coming from a more official source this time around.
You have all read about what is being claimed about the nature of the intense questioning that goes on. We do know that some reports of fact have been misunderstood where what was interpreted as a first hand account was actually second or third hand. Because no one reporting this is in the interviews, we also don’t know how much may be inappropriate questioning versus true threats and/or bribes. Once again, we are trying to validate things and are in no way discounting what you have been hearing. I’m just saying that based on Guatadopt’s sources, we can’t validate the exact nature of it.
We do know that in most of the instances we know of where children have been taken into custody, there were issues with the responses of the interviews. To be clear, we are not saying that this was a necessary step or defending it, just that it was not done completely without justification.
That is what we know at this moment.
In other news, the CNA has a new notice on its website which reads:
The National Council for Adoption and
THE Procurator General's Office,
The interests
LET IT BE KNOWN:
That verifying in-processes cases that are in the pipeline, which is being conducted in the Attorney General's Office, aims to:
I. To comply with the legal mandate contained in Article 57 of the Adoption Act.
II. To verify the legality of the origin of the child, and establish that the biological mothers have given their consent in a free, spontaneous way and without pressure.
III. To provide legal certainty to adoptive parents.
Therefore:
a) We guarantee that the adjustment is being conducted with technical criteria and objectives.
b) The cases verified that meet the requirements of law, are being expedited so that children join their adoptive family in the shortest possible time.
c) reported that the verification process is free, public, transparent and has observers from the Human Rights Ombudsman and the Public Prosecutor's Office.
d) The adoptive families and the general public can have confidence in the verification process being done.
Lastly, the Guatadopt team is overwhelmed. For our own sanity we are going to be on-line minimally over the holiday weekend. In addition, a death in my family will have me out from Sunday until Wednesday night and at this point I honestly don’t know how much, if any, internet access I will have while I am away. In short, we will do our best.
We know this is an extremely difficult time for you all. Our hearts do go out to you all and of course the children caught in the middle of this debacle. We can only hope that the collective thoughts an
I am sorry for your loss.
Posted by: Jenn at May 24, 2008 06:01 AMKevin and team, Thank you for the post. At least it is some news, and it IS appreciated. You all deserve a break with your families...enjoy!
Posted by: Michele at May 24, 2008 09:04 AMKevin and the team,
thank you for all your hard work. Though we brought our daughter home over a year ago I still keep up with recent activities and am very thankful for all the work you do.
amy
Posted by: amy ruffo at May 24, 2008 09:08 AMMuch thanks Kevin to you and all the GuatAdopt team for all your hard work and help. I'm so gratelful that there is a place where I can come to know the latest progress of this crazy process, the truth and rational of the situation.
My sincerest condolences and sympathies regarding your loss.
I hope that you and the rest of the Guatadopt team take well-deserved holiday breatk this weekend!
Happy Memorial Day! Susan PAP
Posted by: suz at May 24, 2008 09:15 AMKevin,
Thank you for giving clarity and helping us to understand a very confusing situation. Sorry about your loss,please know you have our deepest sympathy,you and your family will be in our prayers.
Marjorie,Jerry and Jonathan
Posted by: Marjorie at May 24, 2008 09:22 AMI would be interested to know who is in the room watching out for the womens rights. Two babies were taken this week and the agency has never been in the news. They have never had any implications of wrong doing. Senator Coleman himself toured the home just a few months ago with the Ambassador to Guatemala. All Gods children has an amazing reputation and is Hague Complient but they took two babies. Yes the one mother is shy and quiete and couldn't answer the questions well. She didn't argue. The other mother was crying and very upset. She said over and over this is my baby. But they need to say we will take the baby briefly. Bring in more evidence. They could redo the DNA independently in a week or so and then return the baby. I don't think that is whay they plan to do?
Posted by: Keri Williams at May 24, 2008 09:58 AMWe are very sorry for your loss. Thank you very much for providing up-to-date information for all of us. Take as much time as you require for your family.
Posted by: Jim and Darla at May 24, 2008 10:20 AMIt is so reassuring to read your posts. No matter what the news, at least we can get an objective, rational report. I feel in my heart that our babies will come home. Thanks so much for your dedication and not abandoning us and our children at these uncertain times!
Our condolences for your loss, Kevin.
Posted by: Janelee at May 24, 2008 10:40 AMThey take the child away from the foster home most have known since shortly after birth and put him or her in an orphanage!!??? How on earth is that in the best interests of the child?! I don't understand why they would move a child because the case is being investigated? What does the foster home have to do with it? Are you sure this is true? I just feel so badly for those children, regardless of the outcome of the case.
This circus and political grandstanding is abominable. They interrogate a birthmom by herself with no one with her for support and expect ther to answer questions to their satisfaction..of course the BMs are nervous. Why are they punishing birthmoms and children for the "crimes" of the attorneys???
That is my rant for the morning. I just wish some entity would intervene to at least make this process fair and ethical.
Julie W.
Julie W., I agree with you. The people making these decisions need to take into consideration the negative impact on the children. Why move them before the investigation is completed?
And if the CNA really wanted the verification process to be transparent, they would provide for truly impartial third-party witnesses to the birthmother interviews, allow the birthmothers to be accompanied by a trusted friend or family member of the birthmother's choice, or even better, record the interviews! Even a voice recording--inexpensive and easy to arrange--would do a great deal to reassure everyone that the questioning really is non-coercive and free of any hint of bribery or coercion.
Posted by: Ruth at May 24, 2008 06:36 PMThis is all so aweful, no doubt. It seems that this new PGN is trying to do a crash course in adoption reform after years of corrupt actions. It's a shame those currently grandfathered in are being scrutinized so aggressively. I am wondering where this line of questioning comes from during these birthmother interregations (I can't even call them interveiws)
I saw a post about one of the babies being "abducted" where the AP mentioned that the asked the birthmother why she would want to give her baby to a family where the father was an alcoholic and had been in jail. Where did that come from? Are these questions in referrance to what is contained in the APs dossier? Are the interveiwers pulling questions out based on the APs? This is all too confusing. It would be a shame if they were pulling questions based on false allegations to trick these alreay terrified birthmothers.
I am just wondering if this is part of their protocol.
I can totally understand more questioning if there seems to be something shady going on or if some form of corruption is suspected, but it really isn't going to take much for these already frightened birthmother's to mix things up. So sad, so very sad.
I wish that I could be as "objective" as you are being. But the bottom line is.. my daughter was removed from her foster home of 9 1/2 months, where she was very loved by a family, and moved to.. God Knows where. I have received confirmation from both adoption supervisors, and Susana Luarca that our attorney is ethical. I believe that our birth mother was badgered, bribed, and threatened. Our birth mother is very scared right now because of the events of the interview. She sat with my attorney and wrote a written statement, describing the interview. She had to, because the PGN would not let the attorney be present during the interview. They LIED and told the birth mother that my husband has been in jail for alcoholism, and that our family will misuse and mistreat her child.
What they failed to tell her is that they have already approved us, in 2006 for an adoption, because we have a beautiful little 2.5 year old daughter in my livingroom as I type, who will be home 2 years in September.
In addition, this file was approved by Barrios on 4/18/08, and was on it's way to the window when PGN changed it's administration.
I can not be objective, nor do I think that any other parent, with the factual information, that I have, and have provided to others, would be, if it were their child affected.
My daughter, is alone, and probably scared to death, wondering where the people are that she has known and loved her whole life.
Our birthmother confirmed her adoption plan, and continues to state that she wants to give her child in adoption.
Posted by: Mary M at May 25, 2008 08:03 AMThat is terrible that these people are fabricating such horrible things in an effort to further frighten the bmom.
I was just wondering if any of the questioning was pulled out of information that may have been in the dossier is all.
Now I know these interrogators are just creating and makling up anything to confuse, badger and further tramatize the bmoms even if it means using such horredous fabrications and lies.
I am sure that if the bmom wanted the baby back she would have said she did the first time she was asked given that even if(not saying there was) there was anything forcing here to relinquish this would have been a chance for her to change her mind.
The interragtions need to be alot less aggressive and traumatic and conducted in a more civil manner. Gautemalans have a general fear of authority, I can't imagine how mortified these bmoms are.
My prayers are with all involved in this mess and these babies get to their families without any further delays.
This is certainly not helping these babies, all it is doing is causing more attachment issues, grief and pain when these babies do get to their waiting forever familes.
I am so sorry for your loss and thank you for always keeping us updated. May God grant you and your loves ones peace and comfort during this time.
Posted by: Raquel at May 26, 2008 03:33 AMPlease take alook at Prensa Libre, page 8. There is an article that talks about the hogares ready to close and not able to accept new children because after the new adoption law they have no money to keep going. The hogares run by Segretarias del Bienestar Social are already over the maximum capacity and they plan to build a new hogares for 200 children. Hey unicef are you happy now?
Vince
Posted by: vince at May 26, 2008 07:01 AMIn a situation like Mary's, where there is a real case, with real details, I cannot believe the U.S. cannot get behind her and help fight for that child. We aren't talking theory here.
If the final protocolo was signed (was it Mary?), then the child is legally Mary's, hence our government should back her!!
Posted by: Sheryl at May 26, 2008 09:10 AMHi. Do you know, and are you allowed to tell us privatly the lawyers that are in question?
Thanks
Amy
In all of the documents that we signed during the whole adoption, I find it hard to believe that there is not a single binding contract that would require the government to back us. Is the month up yet?
Posted by: waitingfor2 at May 26, 2008 06:45 PMI am in process on an adoption of a special needs baby who needs surgery immediately. My adoption agency is coming unraveled and probably closing their doors, the facilitator is in San Diego and can't be bothered and the laywer is not someone who inspires any confidence. I just got back from guatemala where I took the baby to three specialists to get official certificates confirming his health status and according to the attorney, PGN did not care at all. Supposedly they are issuing us another previo. I am dependent upon her and I have no idea if anything she is telling me is true, I doubt it is. are they any resources for me to help this baby get through this process?Do I need a separate lawyer down there? I am at a complete loss with this new turn of events. if anyone can offer any advice I'd appreciate it. Thank you!
Best
M. Greene
Sorry for your Loss...we love you and you are in our prayers...
You guys go above and beyond to keep everyone updated...
Michelle- I would call Sen Colemans office in St Paul and ask for Jacob Olson. Tell them your son has a med condition and ask for their help. They have helped push cases through for med reasons. Good luck.
Posted by: shannon at May 27, 2008 06:13 PMMichele Greene,
Have you tried Adoption Supervisors? I don't know much about them myself. However, from what I have heard, it sounds like what you need. Maybe someone else can post more about them. They have a website - adoptionsupervisors.com
Michele- I would contact Adoption Supervisors in guatemala and consult with them. You could also try our state Department and US Embassy in GC. And you could call your local newspapers....I think there is a human interest story there, and some press coverage might prompt PGN or your congressional representatives to intervene and get your baby home. All the best of luck to you...
On another note, there is a CNN www.cnn.com story under the tab world topics about adoptions being "halted." It states that PGN has found 80 cases of corruption and false DNA!!?? I want to comment to the network, but don't know what is true. It states they are investigating the DNA labs...I had not heard that, has anyone else? It also says our State Dept. will not intervene...that they were told that off record.
This just seems to go on and on and no one will do anything....to at least make it ethical for the babies and birthmoms.....
Julie W.
Michele,
I highly recommend Adoption Supervisors. Using "Servicios Juridicos Integrados" (you can find them at adoption-supervisors.com) brought to light so many lies we were being told by our facilitator (the infamous Mary Bonn) and our attorney, Nancy Paiz. (who also couldn't be bothered with any additional requests)
They are fast, accurate, and sensitive to the delicate nature of the problems facing adoptive parents. It really is the only way to get peace of mind in cases like yours.
Good luck,
Tinia
Posted by: Tiniam at May 28, 2008 12:15 PMYou may want to check contacts at PGN. A family through an agency I am adopting from announced that they were given information from an attorney that PGN has a sign posted that they will now begin releasing the approved files. Also I got direct feedback from Joint Council that they are in Guatemala and starting an initiative similar to the Guatemala 5000. I believe this one will be directed towards the PGN interviews going on. They stated they should have an update on everything next week on their website. Karen
Posted by: Karen at May 28, 2008 12:21 PMCan anyone confirm if there is a sign posted at the PGN, stating they will be releasing cases this week??
Posted by: gina at May 28, 2008 09:44 PMJulie,
RE: the DNA investigations of labs
I'm not sure where I read it and it was probably one of the papers, but I did read about labs that were corrupt and I immediately remembered our corrupt facilitator at the time trying to pick the lab, even the day of the test, he tried to get us to go to the lab he wanted.
Now, he had already threatened to take the baby away and he tried to keep getting previos for the pre-approval. The only reason I got approved, is because he suggested one time that I get up at 5:00 am to wait all morning outside the Embassy to get a number and submit the file for pre-approval, he wanted to show me that the Embassy did not want me to adopt the baby!!! Actually, he just wanted $20,000 more and didn't want us to get pre-approval, because then the Embassy would not let another U.S. family get a visa for our child unless we wrote a letter saying we decided not to adopt the baby, anyways, I went and froze with my little girl and then when our number got called they had the nerve to tell me that I was not allowed to go into the Embassy, they just wanted me to see the process, I said what the heck, this is my Embassy and I am going in, lol, so I went in and we got a previo cause they wanted me to sign something that needed notary that I told the facilitator we needed but he said we didn't, anyways, I begged him to let me run to the Citizen's service desk to get it notarized and come back and he said only once per day and I said buy I'm a U.S. citizen, lol and he said that U.S. Citizen's could come in the afternoon too, sooooo, we walked out and the facilitators runner gave me horrible looks and walked away with my file, trying to take it and I had to have someone get it from her, she got so mad, that she stormed off and left me by myself, anyways, later I got it signed and got pre-approval, but of course the facilitator wanted my pre-approval sheet, which I refused cause it was like a gold ticket that could not get lost, I didn't not trust him and we really had feelings that he would try and use ties to hider our DNA so that it would not match and he would walk with the baby and the $20,000 we already paid upfront, sooooo, that day of DNA I had the paper and they tried to get us to go to their doctor and I said sorry, but I've already paid for the doctor we choose which was an Embassy Preferred Doctor for the DNA testing, and I told him we had no money to pay anyone else, anyways, I had video and photo documentation of the DNA not to mention awesome pics of my little girl and her birth mother. So, I saw the DNA and know it was accurate, but, when I read that some DNA labs were corrupt, I immediately thought back to him and thanked God that we did not let him scare us into going to who he wanted.
Anyways, we are with a very reputable atty now.
Posted by: airstar98 at May 28, 2008 09:52 PMCan someone tell me what is happening with passports being scrutinized by RENAP and inscriptions being re-checked before the passport is issued in Guate City. How long will this delay be?
We've been out of PGN since Feb, bm sign off was in March, and new bc issued in April. Started adoption process in July '06.
Semillas de Amor had another tragic birthmother interview today. A 14 year old birthmother "changed her mind" after the PGN spent 2 hours with her alone (can you say child abuse?). I can only imagine what they said to her. The birthmother actually rode over to PGN with the baby and the Semillas team, as she lives in Antigua. She didn't hold the baby or give it much attention.
The lawyer prepped her and let her know what questions she could expect.
Semillas has now had 6 birthmother interviews and 2 tragedies. They are devasted. I spoke to the adoptive mother tonight, who has been living in Antigua for a month with her baby - she feels like her baby has died.
We need to take some *more* action! The big question is what? Our letters to our leaders
have produced wishey-washy responses. The media hasn't jumped on the story. Ideas?
Lives are being destroyed...
Kevin, I'm so sorry to hear about your loss. Thank you for all that you and your team do.
Our case was approved by PGN on April 23rd, but wasn't released due to the investigation. Our daughter's birthmother was scheduled to be interviewed on May 15th, but when she and our attorney appeared, they were told that PGN was behind and wouldn't be able to do the interview that day. Our attorney kept the birthmom in the city overnight and tried to get her in the next day (Friday), but they were turned away again. Very frustrating since she had a 6 hour bus ride to get to Guatemala City, had to take off work, and have childcare for her other kids. Anyway, the birthmother returned home and PGN told our attorney that they'd contact her to reschedule the birthmother's interview. But they still haven't. (Our agency is unraveling... maybe the same agency as is mentioned above. We're working with Adoption Supervisors, the original ones, and the info we're getting from them is consistent with what our agency told us is happening, so I'm pretty sure that the account of the situation is accurate.) Has anyone else had this happen to them, or have any ideas about what might happen from here?
Waiting on pins and needles,
Sheila
I'm not an adoptive parent so hopefully you'll forgive my question, but, I just have to ask because it seems so obvious and it never, ever comes up. A lot of international adopters or would be adopters seem to compare notes and find that the agencies, lawyers and goverments they are working with are corrupt and care only for money and nothing for the children in question. You are, understandably very cautious about what you believe from a system you acknowledge is frequently corrupt but believe everything you are told about the birthmothers. Has it ever occoured to you that you are the clients here. You are paying the bills. You won't come back to them for a second adoption unless you are eventually satisfied. If they treat you like this just imagine how they treat the biological families. They lie to you, treat you like money machines and break your hearts without a second thought. Somehow you assume that the only possible way that biological parents are mistreated is when someone talks them OUT of an adoption. Has it ever occoured to you that a young woman who wants to keep her baby is not likely to be treated any better than you are now and probably much, much worse!
Posted by: cmarie at August 16, 2008 09:13 AM