I think it is great that they are thinking about the cases currently in PGN, and also seem to be advocating for the cases of abandonment.

I have to wonder though, are they also advocating for cases like mine? And for those waiting for BC's from places like Mixco?

My files have been with the Court of Appeals for over 9 months now. Is USCIS urging the release of cases like mine that seem to be held without reason indefinitely?

My adoption was APPROVED by Tribunal Court 6 last August 2007, and I was told that I would be traveling for pick-up in about 6 weeks.

Now, almost a year later, my daughter is still in Guatemala, and my case is still not completed.

Why? Seems to me to be power struggles between different parts of the Guatemalan Government, with no regard to my daughter and how this year delay will most likely make her transition to my home more difficult because she is now so much older.

The PGN, last August, 2007, decided to appeal the Tribunal Court's right to approve the adoption. It is my understanding that Guatemalan law allows the Tribunal Court to approve adoptions, but PGN appealed it's right to do so anyway. How crazy is that?

So, my files have been sitting in Court of Appeals since then. My attorney has asked and asked to have the files back and they will not give them to her.

Who, besides my attorney, is advocating for cases like mine?

My daughter was only 8 months old when her adoption was APPROVED last August. Now she is almost 19 months old. How is this in her best interest? Someone explain that to me please?

anonymous

I have a few questions about this. ANyone know what the USE's stand is if the CNA has given us a way to complete our childs adoption? It is an abandonment case, that was not able to be registered. We have spoken with the CNA and are in process of getting our paperwork in order to do a national adoption. (note that we have already lived in Guatemala for more than three years! So this is NOT an option for most people.)

So we have a valid I 171H... will the DOS honor it and give us a visa? Since this was CNA way of making sure that we did not lose our referral, considering that we have a bond already, it seems as if DOS should honor that!

ANy one have any thoughts on this? Is there any way to find out?

GuateRose

GuateRose,

My *guess* is that for US purposes, when and if the US is satisfied that Guat meets the Hague, you will need to start over with an I-800A.

Does anyone know if US immigration law still provides a type of visa for a foreign adopted child if the parent(s) and child live together in the foreign country for 2 (or was it 3) years?

Beth in MN

Anonymous--
I am glad to see your post in that right now we are trying to get a grip on what are all the "categories" that in-process cases are falling into.

1) how can we describe this category of families. Should it be Families in Court of Appeals?

2) approx. how many families are in the same situation as yours--in Court of Appeals?

Thank you
Nancy

Does anyone know how they would conduct a birthmother interview if the birthmom is supposidly mute and deaf? We have found that this so-called mute and deaf is just something unscrupulous facilitators wrote down to avoid the birthmom's being to thoroughly questioned. Anyone have a successful birthmom interview like this?

Anonymous

Anonymous--
another question-- were all your cases that went to Court of Appeals registered with CNA in time?

in other words---are you "grandfathered"

Nancy

The DOS statements are not accurate. I am living down here and have witnessed the comings and goings of the interviews of the birth moms from my hogar. The birth mothers are NOT allowed to have legal counsel in the room. They go for a portion of the interview by themselves with the child. This portion takes sometimes up to an hour or more; 3 children from my hogar have been seized from these interviews in the last 3 weeks; NONE are for legitimate reasons. One has been returned after an appeal. We are opting NOT to go to the interview on the basis that it is illegal and far too risky. More parents should consider following suit...what would happen if no one showed up for the interviews??? If your child is seized, you are looking at a long expensive legal battle or the chance you will never see him or her again. We should not be cooperating with these lawless Gestapo PGN interviews!

Hi Nancy,
Who are the "we" in the "we are trying to get a grip on all of the categories"?

I don't really know how to describe this category of families as I have no idea how many families are in this situation the same as I am.

I have found a few families, and these families were all registered with the CNA by February 12, as was my case as well.

Also, I am guessing that there could be many reasons why a case might go to the Court of Appeals, but I am just guessing.

I can only tell you that my case went there after the Tribunal Court 6 APPROVED my daughter's adoption, and the PGN appealed the Tribunal Court's right to approve adoptions. I am told that the tribunal court does have the right to approve adoptions under Guatemalan laws.

With several other families that I have found, the Court of Appeals eventually ruled on their cases, sided with the PGN under political pressure to do so, against their own laws, and those families had to be resubmitted back into PGN to get a PGN approval to complete the adoption, despite already having an approval six months or longer from the Tribunal courts.

anonymous

Yesterday my daughter was informed that PGN approved her adoption. She got the referral in February 2007. There were a lot of problems along the wayl.I will pray for all of you that are still in process. Kevin,thank you for this website as it kept us grounded for these many months. This has been an ordeal and I hope that all of you have the same success. I hope each PAP writes to UNICEF when they have their children out and tell them what a disservice they did to these children. Many people are being asked for child support as there is no money to take care of these children.

Nycmama,
It seems that not going to the interview isn't an option. Even though what they are doing is illegal, we are in a country that doesn't have the same regard for the law as our own. Nobody (with clout) is defending us (U.S., for example.) It seems our only option is to cooperate and hope for the best. I read that after two "no shows" for interviews an adoption will be terminated. It seems the legal battle in that situation would be even more complicated than getting our kids back IF they are taken during the interview. Just wondering if you've received good legal counsel regarding this. I fear that your chances of losing your child may be greater by not going than by going and hoping that the odds land in your favor. Do others have insight, information, or legal information regarding this (the option of just not going to the interview?)

Anonymous/Melissa --

It can happen because there can be a translator who understands Spanish and Mayan dialect as well as using sign language. It's really not all that difficult to conduct if you have a translator. Same as any other reason you'd need a translator.

We got "official" notification last night that we were, indeed, approved at PGN last week. We are still being told that we cannot visit before they have birth certificate and passport in hand that has our last name on it, but we are just so excited we are approved. We will keep everyone in our prayers and hope that you all get approval soon so you can bring your children home!!

Melissa,
What if there was someone who spoke sign language AND a translator who speaks Spanish and Mayan. I know the interview you are speaking of. Are you involved in this case?

Has ANYONE gotten out of PGN who had a previo with their "release" after their birth mother interview? If so how long did it take after your file went back into PGN?
Jane(Hope to be Nathan's mother SOON!)

Jane-- to answer your question, yes, we rec'd a previo on our file after the birth mother interview. Birth mother was agreeable to continue with the adoption. We have been in/out of PGN since November 2007. We have been back in PGN for a couple weeks now(our 4th submission).

I wonder if any of the lawyers have considered having the birth mother use a hidden microphone/tape recorder during these interviews by PGN/CNA.

Lou,

Its not one case, its several cases with the same agency and one with another agency where the Mom is said to be "mute and Deaf". The one I'm asking about, the language is not Mayan, its one of the other more obscure 22 languages. I have a good friend who is working on a translator now, but she fears, the Mom is really not mute and deaf, and that could pose additional scrutiny.

I wonder how many cases our out there that have mute birth moms? At the moment the problem is locating the birthmom, then this would be the secondary problem. Plus the child is with a hogar and they are not using an agency, so she is on her own in finding a good translator.

Makes a regular interview seem like a cake walk right?

Melissa/Anonymous
Regarding a birth mother who is deaf and mute. It sounds like a "story" I heard several times when I went to pick up my daughter in '04. When I got my son in '02 there was no mention of a birth father anywhere. In '04 about 6 people I spoke with had stories about the birth father either dying or moving to the US. Neither story seemed plausible. What did seem possible was that someone in PGN or Family Court was looking for a birth father or lack thereof. Deaf/mute birth mothers seem like a way to get around the system as opposed to a real issue. Mind you, I am not minimizing the issue of deafness or muteness, it just seems odd in this context. A further unfortunate aspect of this story may be that any interpreter for this woman may be nonexistent because she may have never had schooling that would have helped her to understand that herself.

We are on our 4th interview appointment; our Birth Mom lives far away and cannot get there with the 2 days notice they give plus one time the director of our hogar cancelled at the last minute b/c the day before a child was brutally taken by 8 PGN men while her BM desperately tried to hold onto her. So, no, your adoption is NOT terminated after 2 appointments. Today, I spent all day with another adoptive mom trying to see her child that was taken last week. The children's court is not a place you want to hang out all day....the charges against the case are false but will no doubt cost her case many months since is the PGNs job to prove the charges and they will go about it at their leisure. Yes, it is a risk to boycott the interviews, but once they have your child, they have all the cards and you are in a position to fight for your file and your baby. We have had legal counsel that has advocated we go and other counsel that we should absolutely not go. There are other attorneys and hogars here that are opting not to comply and wait to see if things change and the courts begin to intervene; some think it is only a matter of time. Every parent must decide what they are willing to risk. But as a whole, we are approx. 4,000 American citizens and it would be pretty powerful if we stood together and did not allow them to harass, bully, and betray us.

Melissa,

To conduct the BM interview for a woman who is deaf and mute, the interviews have two translators for the BM. These interviews are far from being easy, to the contrary. They are conducted with more scrutiny and analysis. Two children have been removed recently by PGN because the translator had a difficult time understanding the BM. Don't worry dear, who ever told you this must have had a few drinks because it is simply absurd.

Melissa,

if you are interested, PM me (same name) on the forum. I can help you understand the language part. One of the more obscure 22 languages?

Unless the mother speaks Garifuna (only spoken in Livingston and with written grammar, translators easily available...) the other languages are Mayan languages (some spoken by tiny minorities, but still Mayan, also with written grammar and translators available). If they're telling you the mother speaks Xinka (the only other non-Maya official language), they're lying because there are only about 3 or 4 speakers of Xinka left...Do PM me if you want help figuring out this.

NYCMAMA:

If we are approx 4000 U.S. citizens, plus how many other thousands that have successfully brought home children over the years, where are we and why aren't we creating a presence? I have been asking this question in various places for months. We have the numbers, but WE, the adoptive parents, are not standing up to be counted and to make that force. Any ideas as to why not?

There are two (I think) Guate Call To Action Yahoo groups. One is planning a writing campaign for Thursday(?) and has been trying to plan a march on Washington. FOUR people were signed up to march the last time I heard (yesterday). FOUR, not FOUR THOUSAND.

Where is everyone? Why isn't everyone on this list and everyone we know who have adopted outraged and fighting this horrendous behavior????

Anonymous,

It is not that uncommon to find deaf and mute people in Guatemala and the majority of them do have children. There is a higher rate of this disability in countries where malnutrition rages, as in Guatemala. In my mission travel, it was not uncommon to meet men and women who were deaf as they are children of iodine deficient birth mothers. It is more common in rural communities where there is a lack of medial support.

The spoken languages in Guatemala are Spanish, English and several Mayan dialects. The Mayan dialect is one of the most studied and is similar. It will not be difficult to find a translator.

Thanks Mariale,

I'm going to PM you.

Hi Kat,

I'm so happy for you. How long were you in PGN before you got approved?

If I may, I would like to make a brief informative comment about the term "mute" that I see being used here. A person who is deaf or hard-of-hearing is not necessarily "mute" (unable to speak), and this is an outdated term in English. People in the United States generally prefer to be called simply "deaf" or "hard-of-hearing" as the case may be. While the term "sordo-mudo" may still be an old-fashioned term used in Spanish-speaking countries, it is often considered offensive here, almost as much as the old outdated term "deaf and dumb." Just wanted to clarify that since as a certified American Sign Language interpreter, I have several friends who are deaf and I am also adopting a beautiful Guatamalan daughter who is deaf but certainly not "mute" at all! If this birthmother really is deaf and she is being denied interpreting services or access to whatever communication she needs to be part of a fair and legal process, that is a very sad situation for everyone. I hope and pray that human rights will continue to improve for deaf citizens of all countries, and I also send my very best wishes to the PAPs for a good outcome for all concerned in this case.