this is very sad & it breaks my heart. Political BS over the welfare of children... there is something wrong here!!!

alex

am i the only one who is confused how we could go from 5,000 adoptable children to 70? did 4,000 parents really decide to parent, or are there a bunch of kids in orphanages somewhere, but they are just not "cleared?"

I may be mistaken, but even if Guatemala opened adoptions to the international community, wouldn't Americans but shut out because the US isn't Hague compliant?

I've been away from the forum for awhile so maybe our 'Hague' status has changed.

I would love to adopt again from Guatemala and I'm anxious for this to get figured out. As I am sure of the families that are currently trying to get through. Be strong. The payoff is amazing.

I am relieved to see a definitive statement such as this. It is disappointing to those who have been wanting to adopt from Guatemala, but it sounds like they are taking steps to get their system put in place, which is a good thing.

It makes me wonder, though, why there are in-nation families willing to adopt now when there weren't before. Or where there and we just didn't hear about it?

In the long run, it is better for the children to stay in their native country. I hope this really is true and that they do get a good system in place so that these children receive good homes at a young age.

It is no clear, does this mean that in process cases are halted?

awesome job Unicef.
can you hear the sarcasm?

If you click on "more" and read, it clearly says "Another reason for the suspension, said the Council, is the need to conclude the cases of transition by changing legislation." So I take this as saying that in process cases will still be moving as long as there is no fraud. So, it would appear that only the official re-opening of the system under new laws is stopped but it would be good if guatadopt could confirm this.

I assume that the posting by Kelly on 9/10/08 re the "adoptions for foreign families now on hold" only applies to any new adoptions and not those which were grandfathered under the old law - is this correct?

Thanks,

Don

I just got my pink slip to go pick up my daughter! I'm excited about it, but sad to think about all of the other children getting left behind because of all of this. I hope and pray that this will change and adoption will open in Guatemala again. Everyone who is still waiting on pink...I'm praying for you!

First it is Guatemala that is not Hague compliant. The US is not open to Guatemala at this time as the US is Hague compliant. The problem is that the Guatemalan government won't spend a dime to get the children to the adoptable stage which requires money to go through the court system. There is no government support and you can blame both UNICEF and the US government for cramming the Hague down their throats.

I also want to address the post about it is better for the child to stay in country? It is if those parents can afford to clothe, feed and educate these children but the sad reality is that there are thousands of orphans in Hogars right now in Guatemala. The 175 that they quote is nothing and I question its' validity.

There are so many things wrong with the CNA and the Hague that it makes me sick. These kids are being made to languish in a system that has no funding. The private Hogars are closing and the state run Hogars that UNICEF promised-where are they? I can speak to many of the hogars and what the conditions are in these facilities-you wouldn't let your dogs live in some of these places. The nutrition is disgusting and the conditions are not great.

This is posturing by the CNA and Guatemala to prove to the international community that they are doing a great job. There are little to no countries that have adopted the Hague that it actually works. Or at least none that I can think of.

Does the statement "..suspended the delivery of children...during the remainder of 2008" apply to in process cases? We had PGN approval in early August but we've now been told that we won't have the birth certificate (because of RENAP)until possibly December. Any clarification of CNA's statement, & info about the brith certificate/RENAP issue, would be appreciated.

I'm wondering the same thing as 'mommytoEli'--how could the number of children available for adoption plummet from 5,000 to 70? We have been in contact with an agency (not currently accepting applications though) who said that there have been a large number of babies being brought in to orphanages currently, and that they are beginning to see the ramifications of halting adoptions. This doesn't match up with recent CNA statement. Something sounds amiss...any insights would be appreciated, as my husband & I are hoping to be able to adopt from Guatemala in the future.

I'm confused. 70 children are cleared for adoption. Yet friends at Orphan Resources International which provides supplies to 42 orphanages in Guatemala told me that most of the hogars in their network are filled to capacity and turning away children. How does anyone reconcile this information. Any cultural or political insights?????

The numbers certainly don't add up. It is likely a combination of many factors. One example: the birth mom of our child will now raise her new daughter (born this year) because she does not have a good option as far as getting the child a home through adoption. She relinquished one child due to hardship but will keep this one because she must. She is already experiencing the same hardships as she did with the first child. The deeper issue here is how to accomplish putting social programs into place to support women so that they don't have to feel that relinquishment is their best option. I believe that is the real solution; the new administration at one point seemed to imply that they wanted to put supports into place. I would love to see news articles from Guatemala describing how this process has been going.

Sheryl- Guatemalan couples have always been adopting. The problem is that too many children need a family and only a few guatemalan families requested to adopt. Infact, from january to these days only 20 domestic adoptions have been finalized. They say that only 70 children are right now adoptable ( I guess they mean that only 70 children have COA ). If they are right then about 30 are at the orphanage were my son was living, where right now there are 49 children, and the other 40 are in the other orphanages ( may be hundreds ).Either they don't know what they are talking about, or the person that published the news misunderstood the statement made by the CNA. Personally I don't think there are only 70 children ready to be adopted. But may be the people at the CNA are right and I am wrong. Vince.

Samantha, may I add our DOS and some guatemalan authorities? Congratulation to all of you.Vince.

I must ask the same question, does this mean grandfathered, in process cases will not be released or are they referring to post Dec 31, 2007 referrals?

Well as far as why not before, because nationals couldn't afford it. Look at the national average income, vs the adoption fees. I have to know in my gut that is why. Yes I have a beautiful daughter from Guat, but also a national friend, now living here in the Us who said , I could never afford it, she still has no children, (infertility issues). I'm mourning the loss at this point of possible adoptions from Guat. but know of so many nationals who have mourned not being able to adopt from Guat themselves. Hopefully the two sides can meet and make forever families

I'm still waiting for my child. I'm confused. I went from PGN to some family court waiting to hear on the status. Does this mean that being "grandfathered" under the old law was just a joke? What is the Joint Council doing to help those of us still in the system?

We all know the numbers are meaningless, so lets not even go there. We know how governments play with numbers.

First of all, I think it is good that this statement is made so that there are no delusions about the ability to do any more adoptions this year. I know there are people waiting in the wings and now they know. Isn't that better?

Second of all, I honestly don't think there has been much in-nation promotion of adoption. I thinkit has been one of the big shames of the country. The children that are put up for adoption come from the wrong part of the country, so to speak. The people that have the money, by and large, are in no way going to touch those kids.

Just for them to say that there are in-nation families lining up gives me hope that they will and are developing a system for in-country adoption.

Don't fool yourselves. There are plenty of poor in Guatemala, but there are also enough families that have money to raise a child. There are foster families who have children that for one reason or another are not getting placed and they choose to adopt them and raise them themselves. I have heard this many times.

When I adopted in 2000, we were not allowed to even know where our foster families lived. We were told it was because their poverty was too great and an embarrassment. Now, I see pictures of foster families that live better than I do. Don't tell me there aren't people that can afford it.

There is a middle class, however small. The woman that babysat us during our first adoptions, our "keeper," lived in a very middle class neighborhood. She wasn't rolling in dough, but likely would have been able to afford a child. Of course, I am guessing, but she dressed decently and had more than one outfit. :)

Of course they should develop a strong social support structure that supports in-country adoption. Why shouldn't they? It is better for the country over all. Why shouldn't we want that to happen and why shouldn't we want to cheer them on?

Sure, maybe it is just a lot of political noise, but maybe, just maybe if they start putting some effort in that direction, it might just happen.

Just them saying it is a shift in political mentality and I think that is a good thing.

This is all smoke and mirrors, as others have already pointed out. Not only are hogars filled to capacity, but you have to add the numbers of children who are quietly suffering or dying from disease or malnutrition because their families can't adequately provide for them and they have no other options.

Although the old system needed reforms, you can't pretend that this is painless -- real children are suffering because of UNICEF and the Hague. It's just sick.

I tried to explain the number 70 a little better at the end of the post. If you do not see it, click refresh.

You have to remember that all of the children in orphanages are also not available for adoption and they will not be. Some are there while their parents try to "get their act together" and can resume parenting their child. Their parents will attend parenting classes, meet with psychologists, etc. There are some that are abandoned, literally being found without their parents. The problem, in my opinion, for the orphanages is financing. The majority of the homes, from what I know, were able to exist and able to care for the children which were not going to be adopted because of the income they received from adoptions. This money is drying up and so the funding to care for all of the kids is disappearing. Yes, some orphanages have a religious affiliation and receive some funding from churches in the US. Yes, some orphanages have a financial backing from private donations. Not all of them, however, are fortunate enough to have this. On the big list this past week, there was a post about one orphanage director that has already emailed that he cannot afford to feed the children in his care and it's created a crisis for him, the children in his care, and for those few adoptive families that still have children in his care. To me, the numbers of 5000 and 70 "adoptable children" don't matter. What matters to me is that there are children who are now going to be starving or not cared for properly because the orphanage where they live cannot adequately care for them.
Karen
mommy to 2 children adopted from Guatemala and one more that is still there, waiting to come home, hoping that the orphanage where she lives can continue to provide for her adequately

This is just speculation on my part, trying to make sense of all this, but I wonder if the hogars,facilitators,attorneys are keeping the children in their custody, hoping that they can get the law changed so they can continue to do adoptions and make their money. If they give the child over to the CNA then they won´t be able to make money from the adoptions in the future if the adoption attys can change the law.

I don´t think they can, cause children were in danger under the old laws, but that may be why CNA only has a handful of children who need homes, when we all know there are many more children who really need homes.

Also, I wonder if the CNA plans to take over the in process cases that have not been completed, actually, i think they said those cases will be given over to the CNA, then those children if ruled by the court to be able to be adopted may beable to continue their process with their american family and the CNA will finish the case. Since there are so many of those cases, maybe the CNA figures they have their hands full with the old cases and since they don´t have many children in their custody, they plan to just finish up the grandfathered cases the rest of 2008 and then when they are done, they may open the adoptions to the International families then.

Again all just me trying to figure this out too.

I pray for all children who are in a hogar today and that the government of Guatemala will help them find a home asap.

thanks kelly...what you added DOES make sense. :) thanks for the clarification.

Has the Guatadopt team been able to confirm they will indeed continue to complete in process, grandfathered cases?
Please if any one can confirm this it would help this worried mom sleep much better!

How many infants and children have died or will die in this year of no new adoptions? These statistics can not be true. What is happening to the infants born now to Mom's who can't afford to feed them? What the hell happened to all the money UNICEF crammed down the last President's mouth?...oh that's right he left office with it.

What a sad day for the children of our hearts.

The problem with the new system will be that the children will be too old, not too old to adopt (but health wise too late for many) they will have a very high risk of RAD, we need to get the children in real homes long before their 32nd month. Thanks UNICEF and Ann Veneman, may the plight of orphans keep you up at night. Oh that's right, Ann would need a soul to keep her up...

Is there anyone who can think of any way to find a birth mother. Our birth mother completed everything (Family Court interview, British Embassy interview, DNA tests)and then disappeared in March (before PGN demanded the extra interview). Our attorney looked in the area of El Estor, our agency (Palmetto Hope) sent a searcher for 2 days, we paid the same searcher to go back for another 3 days - NOTHING!

Can anybody please think of any other method of finding someone in Guatemala?

Any ideas gratefully accepted!

Thanks,

Caroline

MELISSA- AMEN. VINCE AND GINA

Hi Stephanie,

Congrats on getting your pink. I just got out of PGN a week ago. How long before you got your BC, 2nd DNA and then your pink? The waiting is so hard. I pray that everyone gets to bring their children home quickly.

Victoria

Airstar, I like the way you think. :)

Melissa,

I know, for one, that my son would never have lived more than a couple of months had it he not been placed for adoption. Many, many children will die, just as they will in many other of the poorer nations.

Maybe now we can apply pressure to Unicef to fund the orphanages. Isn't that what they are supposed to be doing anyway?

The hogar our daughter is in has a total of 26 children. Only 2 other families are still in the midst of trying to complete their adoptions along with us. The director has received most children from court of minors because the court has taken the children from their parents due to neglect/abuse. He quoted that 85% of the children are not adoptable in his hogar.Investigations are being done but the children have to stay until or if they are considered abandoned. Our director has asked court of minors if there was another home to send some of the children to but there is nowhere for the children to go. He also has called the First Lady but no one returned his call. Most of the money he received for the children was due to adoptions.Iam sure all the orphanage are in this same situation. This hogar can ONLY handle 26 children. I cant imagine what a larger orphanage must be going through. And the pain of having to turn a child away is just horrific to me. I know other countries do the same thing. There are tons of kids but most are not adoptable with no prospects of them ever to be adopted. I realize the situation had to be reformed but what about the rest of the children. Not too long ago there was a small town that found quite a few babies dead and half eaten by rats. What about those children?? It is all so sick!!
If anyone is interested in donating financially or supplies to the hogar our daughter is at please feel free to contact me at afisherman2@verizon.net.

Don't worry, Melissa. Ann will say that she can not sleep at night because she is worry about the guatemalan children in need and at the same time she will ask for money that unicef needs to help the orphans. That's how unicef works. Children in need=money in their cash register=they can keep having a job. Vince.

waiting - if it helps any, my abandonment case got out of PGN on thursday after years of garbage previos. Gd willing, I will be bringing home my 3.5 yr old very soon. My non abandonment baby has been home for a month and the embassy was packed with abandonments the day I went. I just feel so awful for all those babies with no where to go.

Has anyone heard anything about the cases that have been turned over to the judge that did not have the BMI?????