I'm wondering if they have had a case where the 2nd DNA didn't match the first DNA and now they are re-evaluating the whole mess. I mean, what would they do if you are the legal parent of a child and now the child doesn't match the first DNA stuff? I do not know of this happening, but it's my guess as to why this is delayed.

My other guess is that the coordination of their new procedure is quite crazy. I had the 1st DNA done for my case in early September. I believe that there were 8 people in the room for this. Coordinating the schedules for that many people has got to be a nightmare. It took us over a month to get the appointment scheduled after all paperwork was FINALLY submitted to the Embassy.

It happened to a good friend of mine 2 years ago.

I am personally relieved that the State Department appears to finally be taking more control over procedures that were obviously faulty. This is long overdue. Thanks to Guatadopt for reporting this...important development indeed.

Karen, I never understood why the 2nd DNA was not done prior to exiting PGN in the first place???
Because as you said the child is legally the AP's child at this point, what does happen IF it didn't match?
It just seems to me they are finding more things to slow the process down, instead of helping these kids get home!!!

Yes, what exactly would happen to the CHILD if the DNA didn't match at this point?! karenms1, do you know the answer to this question--if you support this step, it seems this would be an important question to have answered, no?

karenms1:
I'm not saying that the State Dept. shouldn't do anything about the procedure. I'm simply saying that I think they put the procedure in place without fully thinking through the craziness that is involved with the way that they did set it up. That's all. Any time, in my opinion, where you have people/humans involved in a process, you can have corruption. It doesn't matter how many people are involved, you will never be able to make it 100% safeguarded. Again, I'm not saying changes aren't/weren't needed. I'm simply saying that I do not know if you can ever remove 100% of the corruption in any process.
Kim:
what happened in the case of your friends that had a non-match on the 2nd DNA? I am NOT worried about this happening in my case but I am simply curious. The child, in theory, isn't the child that the AP's adopted and so who is the child? It's a difficult situation, that's for sure.

This is so incredibly sad for those families waiting to be united who are so close to bringing their children home. It really seems that anyone involved with adoptions is just stalling at this point, so that they don't have to deal with the remaining cases. Karenms, you can say what you like, and we all know where you stand, but you can't just say this is good news, because it isn't - it is another indefinite delay for these kids - and we really don't know the facts as to what prompted changing this particular step of the process, how many cases were deemed corrupt that made it through this stage, what a new process would accomplish, or how long the Embassy will drag this out. Realistically you would think after all this time that someone could have already had an idea that could be implemented rather quickly. Sad and disgusted myself with all the roadblocks and delays - and the lack of efficiency and effectiveness in the process. As a parent who was in process for a long time, I will tell you firsthand that it had a HUGE impact on my child emotionally - damaging? You betcha, and in our case, for no valid reason. Just caught up in the mess. What a sorry state this has all become.

Dee,
I am so sorry your family has lived the repercussions of this process. Did/does the system need an overhaul? Yes. BUT it SHOULD have and COULD have been done far sooner than this. Anything that is done now that delays these children coming to a family in my mind is unacceptable. I am done with these sorry attempts to weed out corruption.
Karenms,
We have all known for a long time how you feel. It is very easy to say your glad for this or that with your children at home with you. Along with these continued ridiculous so called attempts to right a corrupt system, I am over it with with the arm chair cheerleaders.

It is so easy to request more clarity when you are not stuck waiting for your child to come home. We have been in process for almost 2 and a half years. My daughter will once again miss Christmas with us. Before the U.S. Embassy froze the DNA testing, the kits were already being sent directly from the U.S. labs to the U.S. Embassy. As said previously, the kits never would leave the hands of the U.S. Embassy employees. There is something more behind this delay than is being made clear to us.

Haven't these cases been investigated more than any other Guatemalan adoptions? Most of these cases have been in process for over 3 years. These are most likely NOT the cases that have blatant corruption....NO...it was probably the ones that went through PGN in a week or through RENAP in a few days or....you get my point! NOT these cases that have been investigated by the MP, been in PGN for years, have had 1st and 2nd DNA tests, birthmom interviews and MUCH MORE!!! Enough is enough, let these children come home!!!!

And, one more comment that I forgot to add earlier: How nice of USCIS and DOS to further delay the adoptions when our senators recently wrote to Secretary of State Clinton to ask for assistance in completing these cases. What a joke. Enough said, I am sick over everyone using these children as pawns in their power plays.

I have to agree with these last cases are being put through the wringer, how many times can you investigate the same file??? I still say this is another stall tactic.
IF they have not found anything wrong with these last cases in 2 yrs of investigating them,they aren't going to. How many BM interviews are needed in these cases to prove they still want the same things, they are the same people?
LET THESE KIDS COME HOME!!! Enough is enough!!!!

No one has still answered my first question of What would hapen if you get to 2nd DNA and you are legally this child parent and the test comes back Neg??
Should this test not be done BEFORE you exit PGN and new BC is applied for?? I have alway thought this was crazy.

I am not sure who said it but haven't these innocent children been thru enough! Stop the delays and let these children go home to the parents that love them!!! We love our children and it has been to long already!

Luckily we completed our adoptions 3 years ago and missed this disaster. I have to agree with the angry AP's caught up in the process. How can any adoption take two and a half years to approve? The papers sit for 6 months they get passed around and sit for another 6 etc,etc.The folks in charge wanted international adoptions stopped and they've gotten what they wanted.If and when the DNA issue is resolved I suspect another fraud issue will surface and the mess will drag on.

UGH! This is just insane. My heart goes out to those still waiting to unite as families.

Hearing this news is devastating. Our daughter's case is very unique but has been held up since Dec 08 just for her passport. Her case has been with the MP since Jan 09. I have been holding on to the hope that the MP will dismiss her case and then she will be home in two weeks. Why change the DNA process at this time? Why not let all the grandfathered cases be completed and then change things without delaying any child. As was posted before, all the remaining cases have been through more investigation than ever thought possible! This is just another cruel delay for many hurting families.

I completed my second adoption in August 2008 and I am grateful that my son got to come home. Not a day goes by that I remember how fortunate / blessed I am! Each new delay makes me wonder if I would have had the strength to continue. (I am not sure...) My thoughts and prayers continue to be with those of you involved in this mess! Don't give up!! I admire your will to stay on this crazy ride. Any ideas on what can be done to help?

Alright pardon my language but this is such bull$%^&!!! Haven't these children and the families been thru enough. Grandfathered in means grandfathered in!!! The rules should not be changed mid stream. I understand some not so good things have happened but EVERYONE involved US and Guat have had more than enough time to determine if a case should be finalized. So much for "the better of the children". I will admit I have not been following all that close but do have a good feel of what is going with the Guat 900 - so when I ask this I do not mean any disrespect but the fact of the matter is money is the root of all evil. Is it possible that someone somewhere is making money on dragging out these cases????? I am just so pi$$ed about all of this and I was one of the lucky ones who got out in Feb 2008 - very close to all the crap so I could very well have been one of the 900. My heart goes out to you all. So much for Hilary helping to get things moving. What more do we have to do, marches, letters, pleas contacting reps across the US - just plain unacceptable!!!

Chrissy

I agree, when will this stop?!? A couple of weeks ago I was sooo close to having my file signed out of the Minor's Department (the "report" that they requested was finally done) when I found out that now the head of it was being replaced. And I found out that the Attorney General was also being replaced. These are the final 2 signatures I need to get out of PGN. Now...there is a delay at the Embassy. I don't think anybody wants these children to come home. They just keep coming up with more excuses and things that need to be done in order to keep the file.
And yet another Christmas goes by...

Sending heartfelt love and prayers to all who are stuck...Always in my thoughts!

What I thought was a fairly straight forward comment about US DOS finally responding to worries and evidence about inaccurate DNA tests does not mean that I am happy about children languishing in care. If you really know my position, then you know that I have spent a great deal of my professional and personal life involved in issues related to Guatemala and human rights--well over a decade doing so. Because I am interested in the DOS doing what is necessary to implement safeguards to insure that children have not been kidnapped, that does NOT MEAN that I am get any satisfaction from human suffering. Just the opposite is true.

AJMOM - I wholeheartly believe you what you are saying. I have been saying that myself. The Guate Gov is penalizing the only cases that they knew the whereabouts of the children. Those in an orphanage. Under the guise of searching for corruption and "best interest of the child"

I have been trying to bring My daughter home for almost 3 years - Judge will not reschedule hearing without proof that the 1 she cancelled did not take place??? Does that make any sense - ONLY in Guatemala!

I am so sorry for the children and families going through this.

Several have said that they question whether beaucrats are very good at fixing the procedures. I tend to agree with that.

Karenms1, I appreciate your dedication to reducing human suffering. I also want both governments to get their act together. Since you know so much about the situation, do you have any suggestions on how we can help? For exmaple, I have read that there were many children that have been left in limbo because their adoptions fell threw or dragged on for so long that the APs decided to stop the adoption. How can we help these children?

Kindest Regards, Cheryl

I had the 2nd DNA test done 2 years ago and it went pretty fast. But, who knows now. Anyway, I thank God every day that I have my son almost 2 years now. I feel so bad for the waiting families and all the other children stuck in Guatemala and can't be adopted. It is so awful and tragic. Anyone who is inovled in all this illegal and corrupt mess should rot in hell.

Still no answer to the question about what happens to the children if this 2nd DNA test isn't a match. With all this chaos, I find it difficult--no, impossible--to believe that there would be any effort to trace back (often over years) to find out what happened and return the child to the parents, if not placed in the adoption process legitimately. So, HOW, at this late date (when the rights of the parents have been terminated and the APs are the legal parents), would this help the child, at all?

This is the US government making this decision to halt the DNA testing, not Guatemala.

I am not sure whether this is something Guatemala specific or being done worldwide because DOS is close to some new procedure. I am curious of this. It seems odd that DOS would stop doing tests because a chnage of procdures is near. I could something of that sort on the Guat side, but that's not normal US protocol.

KarenMS - time and time again yo get "misunderstood" because you fail to realize who your primary audience is here. You have not endured going through the adoption process. Near all of our readers have or are. The tone and word choice used in your posts frequently comes across as completely insensitive to APs and moreso PAPs. What the rights of the PAP are is a topic for debate (the whole "it's not your child" thing), but what is not debatable their right to respect and dignity. You know I say this to you with no malice. I like and respect you.

To all of us who have endured or are enduring the process - we need to be there for eachother. There is no competition over which cases have faced the most scrutiny. There have always been cases that went into investigations. What we undoubtedly have right now are a huge number of cases being put through more bureaucratic bullsh*t and pointless delay than ever before. Three and a half months or so of Hague almost killed me!! Those stuck right now have gone through it many times over.

In my opinion, at this point these delays are just crap. If in two or so years there is no new news on a case, meaning that there is some belief specific to the given case that there may be a biological family member looking for the child, then it is a crime to the
child and the PAPs to go through all of this. At some point in time we have to say that even if a child was kidnapped two and a half years ago and socio-economic realities of Guatemala are such that no parent has come forward or been found (let's just assume some poor indigenous women who never reports it to the police and just grieves), then it is in the best interests of the child to join a family. Plain and simple.

To all of you waiting right now, I do apologize that Guatadopt hasn't been more of a "help". I wish we knew better how to help and had more time to do so. For any of you not following the Guatemala 900 campaign, you should be.

sjbj - the children languish. They go to a hogar...
Peace,

Kevin
Guatadopt.com

I agree that 2 + years is way to long for this to drag on, and then for the US to add another road block is sickening. These are procedures that should have been thought of a LONG time ago, not now--it's way too late for this to apply it to remaining cases. For new cases, if and when they start, then okay--it is expected, and may prevent some shady activity.
It also adds to the stress for in process families that either govenment can add another step or delay when they feel like it, without warning--UGH!

To group so many legal adoptions in this mess is unforgiveable.

Many prayers for continued strength for the waiting families, and especially the precious little ones.

Sofia

Kevin said it better than I could---I agree, Kevin!

"To all of us who have endured or are enduring the process - we need to be there for each other."

"What we undoubtedly have right now are a huge number of cases being put through more bureaucratic bullsh*t and pointless delay than ever before."

"In my opinion, at this point these delays are just crap."

Especially the "bullsh*t" and "just crap" parts.

What is going on now is unforgiveable on the part of both governments--and these actions will do not good except to prolong suffering for the children and the PAP's.

Sickening!

Peace,
Lizzie

For all the waiting families, I'm just in tears for you. The cutoff for grandfathered cases was December 2007, which means pretty soon every waiting child will be at least two years old, of course many are older already. I am praying for a quick end to all of the delays.

I can vouch for this. I am one of the families still caught up in the waiting game. It has been two years for us and quite frankly I don't know who can help us now if even our own government now is adding to the road blocks. I was hoping to get out of PGN soon and then unto Renap. I don't know now what awaits for this 2nd DNA process. Our case already had added steps like Minor's that added months on to this adoption. I just can't even feel anymore as this adoption has taken everything from me. And the poor child we are adopting her poor rights are being victimized. I just wish both governments would see this and get all remaining adoptions approved so the new process can get up and running...too much time is being wasted on the few cases left and how they are being scrutinized is just ridiculous!!!

Do we know how many cases are left or should I say VICTIMIZED!??

Chrissy

Chrissy- To answer your question about how many cases are in-process,
please check:
http://adoption.state.gov/news/guatemala.html

The following info is posted on there of how many hogar and non-hogar cases are left. It is too long to post here, please see the above link.

I am without adequate words anymore to describe how how wrong both governments are in this atrocity! We are now in process 3 years and stuck in this new MP process waiting to get back into PGN. No one hears us anymore...anywhere we turn. We miss the forums so much....didn't realize how much until now. It feels like some hacker decided to take the last line of sanity we had left just to be cruel! Anyone have any idea's how all of us can re establish communication ? I am wondering w/ the holiday's coming up if anyone is going to Guat ?
I am just heartbroken anymore...I miss my son excruciately so everyday....I will never give up but slowly I feel like we are losing so much....things we will never recover. And no one that I want to tell these things to...the people responsible for this will ever hear our pain...will ever feel responsibility for it nor will ever care.
Lynn

Hi Karen Dicroce can you please email me privately? I have some info I would love to share and would like to talk to you about your case!

As for this next hurdle...This is ridiculous...Another thing to halt the process and our children is at stake!!

Thanks so much

It says there are 437 cases left as of Sept. 1st. Since no one has been able to do 2nd DNA since then, I would say the number is still pretty close to that. I know of one family that went through the CNA that just came home last week. Anyone else hear of anyone making it through the CNA process?

Lynn- Your post brought tears to my eyes. I am so sorry that you are still going through all of this and I know the pain you feel is real.

My son came home in April after almost 2 years in process. Now we are dealing with possible PTSD. I know we can thank the length of the process for that. Unfortunately, the people who can make a difference seem to not care about these things....

Lynn--I had considered going to Guat. the week after Christmas but had held off on getting a ticket. Thankfully I had waited because at this point, between the Minor's Department and the Embassy, I do not know if my case will EVER get released from PGN soooo...right now I can't justify confusing my daughter with a visit. It is so hard on both of us emotionally. I have not seen her in over a year now which is killing me but I can't imagine going there again and then being told she will never be coming home.

Terri, I feel your pain. Our daughter is 9 years old and the thought of visiting her and leaving her again is overwhelming. Our foster family does not understand that we do not want to visit for Christmas. We started this adoption process for her and her biological sister who has been blessed to be home for 13 months now. It is so emotionally hard for a 9 year old to understand why she has been left behind for over one year. Of course, I cannot understand it myself! Praying this madness ends soon.

The US needs to give a timeframe on when they expect the halt will be lifted. It is alot different to wait with the knowlege of how long this will take.

I'm sorry Karen Dicroce I forgot to leave you my email address...

adoptingmom29@yahoo dot com

Has anyone tried bombarding the Department of State? My agency suggested having families calling/emailing/writing them. Whatever it takes to have them bug Guatemala to death. I am not sure it will work but I am tired of not doing anything. I would think SOMEBODY would get sick of us soon. Maybe it has already been tried??? I know there is the Guatemala 900 going on but haven't heard anything on that for some time.
Dawn, my heart goes out to you and your daughters. I can't imagine what the 9 year old is thinking right now when her sister is already home! My little girl was 2 in July so she doesn't understand anything yet.

Hi...not sure where else to post this and I am bursting to share it....and to let people know that there is some light....We were just told that we completed the MP investigation phase !! Took us just about 2 months to get through it. We should be resubmitted to PGN today or tomorrow !!! We've been out over 2 years now so this is monumental ! Have no clue how long PGN is taking these days...but am hoping now that they KNOW the MP investigation was done that all they need to do is review the paper and let all of us through !!!!! IT'S TIME !
to Dawn....hang in there...I do understand and can totally understand how you are feeling too. Keep the faith! Lynn

We have been in Guat since oct 26th. We were sent by our agency to finish ou adoption. We were given an orage slip from the US consulate for our daughter's 2nd DNA. We had it done it matched her first. The embassy signed for the fed ex back to them and we are awaiting information on our exit intervirw. We are stuck in Guat waiting for the US Embassy to let us go home. Do you have any information on this or is their any others couples with our problem. P lease help us get some answers.

Has anybody thought what may happen if the US DOS doesn't ask for inclusion in this pilot process? Is it possible this is the only way we will get the kids home? They have already been declared abandoned, or adoptable and I think we should be bombarding our representatives and DOS with letters to be part of this program!

Look at Kevin's post on the other item about Guate re-opening--it's not likely that children already in process will be part of this new pilot program.

For those still waiting, JCICS has a new post on their web site:
November 30, 2009 - Update on Guatemala
It is Joint Council's understanding that the U.S. Embassy in Guatemala City will begin processing 2nd DNA tests for grandfathered cases this week. As noted by Joint Council on November 9, 2009, the Embassy temporarily stopped processing 2nd DNA tests. It is our understanding that there will be new procedures, including samples taken at the U.S. Embassy with a U.S. Consular Officer present. Joint Council is consulting with the U.S. Dept of State and the U.S. Embassy in Guatemala City to gain further understanding of the situation. Joint Council will continue update our membership and our website as more information becomes available.

http://www.jcics.org/Guatemala.htm