I am so impressed with you and your ability to state your opinions, allow others to speak their peace and then help us all put it together. You have and continue to be such a wonderful asset to our Guatemalan adoption community! Somehow, although we don't know each other personally, I think I know your heart. It's a good one! Thank you. Peace to you and your family. Happy holidays.

Kevin,

Thank you for all you do and have done. I sympathize with your situation and admire your resolve!
Guatadopt was an irreplaceable resource during our adoption as well as after we had our precious daughter HOME.

I agree with most of your views. After seeing the poverty that exists in places like Guatemala first hand, I realize even more the need for adoption and reform of the process. However, I don't think there will ever be an "ideal" system where all sides agree on what is right. The scenario which creates this condition is not ideal by nature. I can also tell you, my heart feels good and my conscience is clear with the outcome of our adoption experience. Our daughter is the best thing in our lives! She brings our entire family so much happiness and makes us laugh every single day.

I don't consider my wife and I saints, and know where our motivation came from in our adoption. I have tried to look at the process objectively, before, during, and after. Although I am certain there have been many cases of discrepancy, wrong doing, deceit, criminal and moral injustice, I still believe there is much more good than evil done here.

This is the way I rationalize my position; If a birthmother/family already lives in "substandard conditions" they have three choices; 1. Have the child and put further strain on immediate and extended family to provide food, shelter, clothing, healthcare, etc.. 2. Terminate the pregnancy. 3. Make a selfless decision to offer the child for adoption in hopes of a "better life". I thank God everyday our birthmother chose the latter!

There will always be criticism of adoption weather you agree or disagree on the principle. Persons who oppose the adoption system, international or domestic, have just as much responsibility to "fix" the problems as the advocates do. It is easy for the opposition to criticize those who take a stand...and do nothing.

We hope you have a great holiday season! God bless you, your family and the Guatadopt team.

Sincerely,

Intercountry adoption supporter.

PS. Will the forums ever return?

I thought you were leaving us for a second.

I don't have a problem with anything you said.

Paz y Feliz Navidad, Kevin y familia.

Kevin,

I think you are experiencing the very thing that forces politicians to simplify their message. There will always be a (large) segment of the population that is unable to think about and process complex issues. Such people are forced to repeat a simple message and will never abandon that message, because either they have an agenda, are naive, or are simply not intelligent enough to think critically.

These folks, who appear on both ends of the international adoption spectrum, will likely never appreciate the unbelievable balancing act you have achieved at guatadopt. It's a rare person that can embrace views from all sides and foster the tough conversations. Unfortunately, that leaves extremists on both sides unsatisfied.

This is the single best webpage for accurate, current, and BALANCED information about Guatemalan adoptions. Please accept my gratitude for carrying on with an almost impossible task.

Ellie
AP

Kevin,
I hope that you don't give up on your calling to be the voice of reason in the sometimes infuriating world of international adoption. You gave me sanity during our adoption as part of the Guatemalan 500 just as I am sure you are giving to the parents of the Guatemalan 900. Even now that I have my daughter home and in my arms, I turn to your site for comfort when I read the insults and accusations against APs. Guatadopt is an island of solace in a storm of misguided intentions.

I can't help but wonder if you asked the hungry and neglected street children of Guatemala how they feel adoption if they would have the same opinion as those who oppose adoption from the warmth and safety of their homes.

Thank you for all you have done and continue to do.

Julia

All i have to say is that Guatadopt has been a GIFT for me and husband during our adoption process. I met some really good people here....and Kevin and Kelly, you are among them! Thank you so much for all the information you have provided to us.

Wishing you all the best during the holidays and for the year to come!

As always, Kevin, thank you for your sane, as-objective-as-humanly-possible viewpoint. And thank you for doing all you do--despite all the grief it brings you. Feliz Navidad.

Kevin,

Brian Kelly has arrived. The next few years will be great for you!
twebb

Thank you for being who you are and for the Guatadopt site.....You are an invaluable resource and so is this website for people like us still struggling through this process. I still cling to the articles and comments for bits and pieces of info since the forums went down and if I had any bit of computer knowledge to fix them....I would volunteer my time in a heartbeat! Trust me...you don't want me to go there LOL ! But I would if I could because I truly miss the forum. But what I really wanted to post, was a big thank you to you and to tell you how awesome I think you are to have selflessly given of your time and of yourself to help so many! That other website to which I will give no further advertising I simply could not spend any further ime on as it was for me too extremist for my taste. The genius of Guatadopt is there balance ! so thank you again ! and hang in there...and I wish for you a Peaceful and wonderful 2010 and for all ! And to bring all our children home as soon as possible !

Kevin,
I jumped over and read the post from Pound Pup.... UNBELIEVABLE!!! Everyone has an agenda, good or bad. Clearly there are some very childish people on that site!! Anyone who knows you, knows that you are an advocate for Guatemalan adoptions. You all do great work and please don't let them intimidate you to stop doing it.

Kevin,

Ellie Elway on December 27th did a great job of verbalizing my own thoughts. She must be reading my mind :). There are extremists. There are people with agendas. There are people who can only think in terms of black and white. I will also venture that if we met some of the posters face to face, we would come to find that they have serious mental or emotional issues. I think one of the main posters that attacked you on another web site had series emotional issues. Further, people that post aren't representative of the general population.

It takes intelligence and time to think through all of the issues and forumate a synergistic view. It takes guts to communicate that synergistic view to a world of people that are not capable or willing to think in those terms.

And as all of the others have said, this web site has provided a place of sanity. Thanks.

Best, Cheryl

Man, Kevin!
You again, remind me that you are that rare person who is a friend of truth, and not merely an acquaintance, who ditches the truth when it is inconvenient.

Thanks for your honesty! Thanks for really thinking these things through, and not merely responding emotionally, like I am others have done too often.

You deserve the nice things said by the above comments, and more!

I say all that, still disagreeing with you!

In the specific of Susana and Norma, you could, I think, change the names in the two descriptions, and you would have my opinion. I see Norma as a fighter, for example, and so give her grace when her feistiness has been directed against adoptions at large. I see Susana as someone who uses the various media towards ends that she feels justifies all means necessary.

But the lesson I get most in your openness has shown me that we are all simply human beings…we all have defective brains, scarred by events, and swayed by deep hurts.

We all want the same thing, in the end, I think. I think that key thing we all want is to experience love. To be loved. To love.

How the heck does that fit in the adoption debate? If it doesn’t jump out at you, let me just say that to adopt is to bring a child into a family. Ideally, a family is founded on the love of a man and woman. This then becomes enhanced by the incredible, unearthly, unconditional love of parents for a child. Even though you have often said your motives were not altruistic, Kevin, I believe that was the motive you and your wife had. You wanted to give that love you had, and you were willing to give it to a child who wasn’t your blood. Humanity doesn’t get any better than that.

But families are under attack like crazy. Biological, and adoptive. Some say it is satanic. Some say it is human nature. Some even suggest that we have evolved into a race who cannot be monogamous, and faithful to our offspring.

Adoptive parents say NO to any and all of those opposing forces.

But even as marriage and family under attack, adoption is too. Those who would destroy it, are not the UN, or Norma Cruz, or Wendy Berger. They (at least Norma and Wendy, who I can vouch for personally) are reacting out of a sense of decency and love of neighbor. Unless we chalk it up to demonic forces, I don’t really understand WHY it has become so bad. But I think I see HOW.

People who saw this incredible good thing that is the desire to adopt, and had the experience and means to facilitate it, fell in love also. But, not even really choosing it, they ended up loving money more than the people involved. [Think of the fallen agencies we have seen on this sight. I hope you all know that there are more guilty than those who have been caught.] Their hope was in the money. Their desire became the money. Maybe not even LOVE of money, as much as FEAR of not having it. The parents, and the children became a means to this end. I heard, as an erstwhile associate, how the agencies and the lawyers and facilitators spoke about the adoptive parents. They didn’t respect or love them. They, at best, considered them a necessary aggravation. I think they fell into a trap.

They are not to be loathed. They are to be pitied. But they need to be weeded out of the adoption process all the same. Like you said; “Let’s just all agree that the money clouds everything… … including the minds of the agencies and lawyers. And so they started to look, in the eyes of those who oppose human trafficking, and abuse of human rights, like the enemy. This wonderful, noble act of love appeared to be another form of commerce. The exchange of a commodity for money. An exorbitant amount of money.

I happen to be enough like Kevin that I think it would be fine for a family who wants to raise a baby but cannot do so biologically to contract with a willing and free woman to make an adoption agreement in which the birth mother receives compensation, for “labor costs”, and “shipping expenses”, so to speak. I think she should receive whatever that couple feels in appreciation. Any amount they freely agree upon is worth the good life of the precious child. But I am not naïve enough to think that that could happen in a way that would ensure the woman’s free and willing participation in the world as we know it. “White slavery” is growing throughout the world, and in the U.S. These fiends of human trafficking want to look as much as possible like legitimate businesses, and so act as travel agencies, and work consultants…and as adoption agents.

Unless adoptions get completely out of the realm where people make a profit, even calling it non-profit, but sustaining their significant salaries and "overhead", the issue will stay cloudy.

And so we have people who are motivated by love, and who love beyond their own family. They love their neighbor as themselves. They are willing to stick their neck out to protect and to help those who are vulnerable in their society. Yes, this inherently good and noble endeavor has been clouded by career “charity professionals” and organizations like UNICEF, who have been beguiled by money, and have lost the purity of the original theme. But there are those who are “fighting” corrupt adoptions, who do it out of the same motive as the adoptive parents who get so angry at their meddling. Irony at its worst.

And so, the good guys don’t trust each other. We have this opposing stance. I consider you one of the best of the good guys, Kevin. Maybe the key is to simply keep blogging!

I am totally for reducing adoption related crimes. "Taking the money out of the system" will help, probably a lot. However, I want to point out that money will always exchange hands since it takes money to buy food, medicine for the kids and to pay people to care for the kids. As long as money is exchanging hands, there is an opportunity to misrepresent how much money is needed and to skim some of the money off the top. We will eliminate the criminals that are motivated by large sums of money. WE won't eliminate the criminals who are willing to sell their own mothers for little of nothing.

As long as there are orphans (even if there are no adoptions), there is an opportunity for someone to clandestinely remove children from whatever system is in place and "sell" them for criminal purposes. And I think we all agree that the world will probably never see a time when there are no orphans.

My hope and prayer is that the people in charge of designing procedures (for caring for the children, for adoptions, etc) learn to think like the criminals so that they can stop them.

One other point I'd like to make is I think it behooves policy makers to investigate and understand why APs and PAPs engage in certain behaviors and use that knowledge to motivate future PAPs to engage in behaviors that the policy makers consider to be "more desirable." In a very simplistic example, if a lot of APs and PAPs want infants because ... future PAPs could be indoctrinated about all of the cool things that 3-6 year olds do and all of the hard work that infants entail. I think the most effectively way to change people's behaviors is to to figure out what motivates them and then use that information to motivate them to do something else.

Kindest Regards, Cheryl

Paz Steve. I don't think it could be expressed more sadly or beautifully. It is an irony.

First of all, I have to say this....Adoption agencies who acted unethically, took money without providing services which clearly violated contractual obligations etc etc... are not to be pitied, they are to be prosecuted and closed down! Pitied doesn't begin to cover it !~ Perhaps this is part of why the system has gotten to this point! Too much pity and not enough action! I have learned first hand how much the value of a written contract does NOT protect you or your money in a foreign adoption. That having been said, my point is not to rip on your post Steve, but I did have to state that one thing....sorry. I wanted to expand on the human element of adoptions...and that as the perspective as an adoptee...as I am one. People tend to forget the good stuff....the good stories because the bad stuff is easier to remember and exploit and to write about....it makes better headlines! I grew up wanting to adopt a child because I was given the gift of being adopted along with other reasons...but this was something always in my heart! And I refuse to give way to the negative attitudes that seem to prevail today. I will always choose to be an advocate for the beauty of adoption and the families that are born out of it. It is a tragedy the number of children and families that have been held apart by the turmoil of late and I only hope this it is short lived. Do I discount the things that need to be regulated and changed...of course not...but do I think you eliminate something that can be a beautiful option for a child....never. Like anything, humans will find a way to bring in evil and it is up to the rest of us to pray to find a way to fight it. Sometimes I simply think humans have a way of overanalyzing something as pure and amazing as uniting a child and a parent into something else, something wrong and I just don't understand it.

Lynn,

I am really glad that you, as an adoptee, posted. So many of the adoptees that are posting these days are unhappy with their experience. I do want to hear from them, but I also want to hear from the adoptees who were happy with their experience. I can only gain a well rounded understanding by hearing from people who have had a wide range of experiences. I want to understand more and more what factors result in a good experience, a mediocre experience, and a bad experience.

I also many times have the gut reaction that there are factions turning adoption, which is "something as pure and amazing as uniting a child and a parent" into "something else, something is wrong and I just don't understand it." My first best friend was adopted. My mother was a widow left with my sister and my father adopted her. So in my gut, I feel that adoption is very natural, it is a very natural thing to love a child that has not sprung from my own DNA.

Now to Steve. As anyone who has read posts over a long period of time will know, Steve and I disagree on many things. But in his defense, I think the two of you had a miscommunication.

If Steve did intend to say that he pities criminals, I feel certain that he also thinks it is important to prosecute them. Steve, correct me if I'm wrong.

Steve wants international adoptions to continue. He is a champion for ethical adoptions.

Steve, I saw a picture of you holding a little girl that is about 3 years old with very long pigtails on one of the websites. It was precious :)

Kindest Regards, Cheryl

Thank you Cheryl...I appreciate your kind words. If there is anything I have learned in my life and moreso during my own adoption journey w/ my son that is ongoing....is that there are Choices! Everyone has them! You can choose how things make you feel, how you act or react, how you treat others, etc. You can choose to let your past dictate your future or let your future be something you decide....choices ! So many let other things rule life for them. Now I am not callous to the abuses or issues that people have gone through, whether you were born in that situation or adopted into it....but many people have overcome many situations and gone on to do great and wondeful things out of tragedies because of choices they made. This is how I choose to live my life. And that is all that we can speak to....how each and everyone of us conducts our own lives !
Point taken on Steve's post....but mine is valid also about using words like pity when it comes to agencies who CHOICES and not good ones.....
Thanks, Lynn

Kevin:
I appreciate that you often straddle difficult terrains (and we don't always agree) as Guatemalan adoptions are a complicated ethical maze and no one can seem to come to agreements on...except that there were (1) some SERIOUS problems and (2) there are many needy children living in deplorable conditions in Guate. I would like to correct one thing...when I met with the folks at SURVIVORS FOUNDATION (was briefed by Norma Cruz's daughter) she point blank stated that the organizaztion is not ANTI-intercountry adoption. They are PRO-adoption REFORM and Norma Cruz is determined to move the handful of cases that she is advocating for move forward to courts of law--demanding that kidnapping be recognized, adoptions nullified, and children returned. That is her position--that is not ANTI-ICA. That is advocacy for a small group of cases/women and the children that were adopted by US families. Just wanted to make that clear... I don't personally know Ms. Cruz, but it is clear that she is a determined woman.

I do know Norma, and I know first hand and through personal experience with our case and others, that she is NOT anti-ICA, nor anti-adoption (domestic) as you have incorrectly stated. I think that needs to be noted. Thanks!

Thanks, Cheryl;

I pity them, and they must be prosecuted.

Only by clearly and forcefully acknowledging and repudiating ICA abuses can the ICA community become what it should be: a wonderful chance for those children who need what is possible though it's program.

Great job as always. Thank you for doing what you do :)

A little late in posting but hoping you and your family had a wonderful holiday season and all the best for the New Year. Thank you so much for sacrificing your time to keep everyone informed.

Hello Kevin,

I haven't visited the Guatadopt site since just before Xmas, so didn't read your self-described "tirade" until last night. All I can say, my friend, is "Illegitimi non carborundum." (Don't let the ba$tards wear you down.") My family appreciates all you have done for the international adoption community.

Gregg