Kelli,

I can't speak for others but in regards to my post about an update on PGN, it was really directed towards everyone reading the posts. It helps when you read about other people's cases and knowing what is going on with them. Thanks for all you do.

Comment by Patricia at June 27, 2006 09:27 AM

Thank you for your honesty. Please realize we all have issues. No one has the answers for everyone. I entered PGN last August so we are all anxious. Keep up good spirits and focus on your child. Tracey

Comment by Tracey at June 27, 2006 09:31 AM

Hi,
I just heard that yeterday PGN released 70 cases so I am hoping that the back-up will resolve soon and cases will start coming out on a regular basis. I also want to correct something. We are using Adoption Supervisors and they gave us a 8-10 week timeframe so I think they are being realistic about thier cases.
Hoping that we all get pink soon!!

Toni

Comment by Toni at June 27, 2006 10:18 AM

This is a wonderful site and thank you so much for all you do. The information here is invaluable, and I don't know what I'd do without it!!! THANK YOU!!!!!

Comment by Andria at June 27, 2006 11:26 AM

Does anyone know if when your case gets submitted to PGN if a receipt is issued and has your agency given you a copy of it to verify the date of entry?

Comment by Beth at June 27, 2006 11:48 AM

Toni,
Where did you hear about the 70 cases? That's wonderful, if true!

Comment by Suzanne at June 27, 2006 12:43 PM

First, sorry Kel for asking the PGN question! My posts are to everyone--just to see what is going on in general, what others are hearing, etc.

Second, a friend got out of PGN on June 1 after being in since March. She traveled for the pickup trip on June 21. Her agency woudl NOT let her stay @ The Marriott because of issues regarding police harrassing foster mothers (actually arresting them) as they brought the babies. Just a heads up to anyone traveling soon--check with your agency before you stay @ The Marriott.

Anyone else hearing this? I called my aganecy and they were not happy with the news. They want me to think all is peachy and NOT to ask questions, ever. This is 1st hand info as my friend was just there 2 days ago.

Comment by Jamie Adams at June 27, 2006 01:29 PM

We have been in PGN since February with several previos. I understand the frustration that everyone is feeling. There isn't always alot of communication from my agency, so this is such a great resource of information. I hope that there were 70 outs yesterday... let's all hope we are next!! You are all in my prayers!!

Comment by Tracy at June 27, 2006 01:52 PM

Oops - I guess I need to clarify. I am ONLY refering to direct emails to me and/or Kevin asking about PGN or PGN timeframes. I certainly do not mind the question being posted to the comments. There is a difference in that I feel somewhat obligated to answer direct emails. I treat the comments somewhat collectively. If there is something in the comments, I often post a response publically and in some cases I reply privately (via email).

But the important idea here is that we POST VERIFIED information when we get it.

Again, keep the chins up....the rumors of multiple outs MIGHT be good, but I have not verified that they exist or that they are all approvals.

Comment by Kelly (guatadopt.com) at June 27, 2006 02:13 PM

I understand where you are coming from Kelly.

But, I know how I feel this is so frustrating and upsetting. The saddest part of all; is that, it is all unnesscary for one persons ego these babies suffer. My case has been in PGN since March and now it is almost July. How sad! I thought I would have had my little guy home with me in May. I can not believe all this is happening. It really makes you think long and hard about alot of things. Thanks for information on the Marriott. Why would be police give good people such a hard time if it was not for these wonderful people taking care of my son I think, I might have lost my mind along time ago.
Thanks Kelly for all your good work!

Comment by Rita at June 27, 2006 03:00 PM

To all who asked,
Adoption Supervisors gave us the info on the 70 cases being released on Monday so I am assuming it is correct. They have never told us anything that did not turn out to be true.

Yes, I agree, positive vibes work wonders!!!

Toni

Comment by Toni at June 27, 2006 04:00 PM

In the posting earlier this month from Susana Luarca from the ADA, she stated that they were going to pursue an Amparo and asked us to have our lawyers support it. Our agency has come up with a letter where we give our lawyers power of attorney to pursue an Amparo against PGN. We are strongly considering this as we have been in PGN since the end of February. We are asking others who are in our situation also to consider this as well. Thank you

Comment by Maria at June 27, 2006 07:12 PM

Maria,
I wonder if your agency would be willing to share the letter you referred to. If so, please list their name so we can request it. Thanks for the info.
Gayle

Comment by Gayle at June 28, 2006 09:29 AM

FYI-We have had big problems with our case this week. We hired AS and they have discovered that after being told by our facilitator that we went into PGN 3/6/06. It was all lies we aren't in and nothing is certain. So the little pieece of paper noting the PGN date. I suggest you insist on it.

Comment by Kim at June 28, 2006 09:43 AM

Kim, we really feel bad for you.

Has anyone heard whether they got kicked out or OUT of PGN with the 70 cases that were supposed to come out this past Monday. We haven't seen anyone say anything.

Comment by Buffy at June 28, 2006 10:51 AM

Kelly-
I'm not currently adopting, but am a Guatemala adoptive parent. I appreciate your work on this site, esp. since it's a volunteer job for you.

However, maybe instead of posting how fed up you are of the emails that people are sending to you re: PGN, you could use a bit more sympathetic tone. This is such an emotional process, and the last thing those in process need is a slap on the wrist for sending emails about PGN...JMHO :)

Comment by Linda Jones at June 28, 2006 12:59 PM

I have to say that sometimes I get very worried. Not for how long the process is, because after three Guatemalan adoptions and knowing countless others who have also brought home their children through the same reputable agency I know what is "typical" and whatis not. But I have grave concerns for the frantic search people have for information for their cases. I understand... believe me, I do! Our three cases all took at LEAST 14months. But what worries me is that we on this end are over-stepping our bounds in our attitudes and our insistence that we know every step/time frame/delay/reason/issue that is involved in the process in Guatemala. This is a legal process being carried out in another country, in another language, by people with totally different work ethics and culture than we. Add to this mix the money that can be made in this process which only adds to some fraud and unethical practices. This is a major reason some cases (not all) move quickly and some (not all) do not. Another factor is who we are trusting. Sometimes the very people we might think are on "our side" are truly making the biggest money and have the most to gain or lose from international adoptions. It is not always clear cut. How is our "pressure" adding to the mess? Be very careful whom you believe and what information you pass on as fact. Sometimes this frenzy borders too much on "my rights"/"my child" with seeming disregard for the fact that until the final protoco is signed, in reality, these children still "belong" to Guatemala, whose complete right it is to run their adoption programs as they deem safest and best for their youngest citizens. We may or may not agree with their way of doing things, but it's not our call. Yes, we are paying "good money", but without the nationals on the other end, most if not all of us could never complete a Guatemalan adoption. We are indeed at the mercy of another government and individuals who will do as they choose. Every one of us should be told by our agencies that this process is NOT quick and easy, rather that it is usually long and frustrating. Surely we can ask questions, but to expect to know where our case is at any given moment, to get irritated and frustrated for a lack of information...that does no one any good. If we truly knew how many cases these people are handling, how many of Guatemala's children are leaving their home country for life in another country, I think we would stop and consider, and hopefully just sit back, take a deep breath, and be thankful for our chance to parent another woman's child. I truly get alarmed that from this side of things, our attitudes and actions might in the long run be what ruins the chance for any of us to parent these beautiful children. Let's slow ourselves down...and maybe in the mean time, PGN might find a reason to speed itself up. Laying all the blame on one man, assuming the head of PGN is a one-man show, out to end all adoptions can't be true, since cases are coming out, albeit not at the rate we would all like. Absolutely every case that get completed is a miracle! Sorry, but I'm venting as a long timer, to read of so much frustration over cases which truly are very typical to what Guatemalan adoptions have always been, or worse yet for cases that truly are making remarkable progress in short order.

Comment by Nancy at June 28, 2006 01:03 PM

Hello,
Congrats to all those out of the PGN. Other, I KNOW we will soon be on the otherside. This is my second and BOTH have been LOOOOOOOng waits, but worth it. Does anyone have any idea how long a birthcertificate is taking if the child WAS born in Guatamala City?

Comment by Michelle at June 28, 2006 01:47 PM

I just wanted to let everyone know what we just heard from our agency today that we are OUT of PGN. We entered on 3/30/06 and had 1 previo. We were included in the batch he had prior to May 15. We are very grateful and wish everyone else a speedy out!

Comment by Patricia at June 28, 2006 04:22 PM

I would just like to say that our expereince with Adoption Supervisors has been wonderful and who knows where we would be without then. We have been in PGN since June and were one of the 70 cases released yesterday (with a previo unfortunately!) Not that I am complaining, it was a minor one and I know so many of you are having much more difficulty! I am praying for and hope your little ones get home very soon! I would highly recommend Adoption Supervisors if for no other reason that a since of comfort that someone is looking out for your best interests. We have been using them since DNA and have been very impressed. We have met with them in GT (when our agency there wouldn't!) and found them to be very knowledgable and professional. The timeliness of the information is great! Often days ahead of our agency! They have been worth evey penny!

Comment by Julie at June 28, 2006 04:25 PM

I take a vote!!! why don't all of us waiting on PGN plan to fly and meet in Guatemala? I have been in PGN now almost 4 months!!!!! to beat all , we were waiting to get a call that we came out of PGN. We got a call alright! that we had been kicked out!! after 16 weeks! tell me, why in the world would it take PGN this long to find a problem? sounds pretty fishy to me. Thanks,
A Sims

Comment by A SIMS at June 28, 2006 05:29 PM

kim....what in the world? why has your case not been submitted? who would do this?

Comment by cami at June 28, 2006 06:42 PM

Michelle,

Our daughter was born in Guatemala City. Our agency has been right on the mark thus far, and they tell us that once we are released from PGN, we can estimate 5 weeks from then for the embassy appointment for pick up.

Cheri F.

Comment by Cheri Fulford at June 28, 2006 11:00 PM

Thought everyone would want to know.. we got kicked out of PGN Monday. We were sent for rectification for a date being wrong on the Civil Registry certifications. Now our agency says don't expect her home till Dec. Details are on my blog. If you have been through this would you sign my guestbook so we can talk? Thanks so much. http://faithsjourney.spaces.msn.com

Comment by Angel at June 29, 2006 01:15 AM

Cami,
Who knows? My facilitator State side is the one that has lied to me for 15 weeks. My pre-approval from 2/22/05 still sits in USCIS. Amazing! AS is on it and they have been INCREDIBLE! they have found out an incredible amount of information in three days. Next week I will know exactly where I stand. So my 15 week in PGN wait was not even the beginning of my PGN wait.
Kim

To June:
You can not trust alot of people you are dealing with down there. We are a prime example. And if the Country and People were running adoptions in the safest and best way possible it would not take 8-14 months to bring a child to thier forever home. They would realize that they are only hurting them by making the process such a difficult one and the wait so long. After what you have to go through to get to the PGN point the majority are excellent prospective parents. So the current, most likely, past, and problaby future adoptions do and will not have the best interest of thier children at heart. I have been patient but after eight months I am finding it more and more difficult to be patient. There is no GOOD reason that this process takes so long.

Comment by Kim at June 29, 2006 10:23 AM

Everyone needs to keep in mind that just because 70 cases came out of PGN, that doesn't mean they were signed off on. Three cases from our agency came out signed off on. Unfortuneatly, we were on of the ones that were kicked out for a second time, after our agency told us everything was going fine. we were never notified about the first kickout. On top of this, they have never told us why we have been kicked out either time. I am starting to wonder if we have an incompitant lawyer. Anyway, sorry to vent. I know alot of you have been in alot longer than our 12 weeks.

Comment by Tim at June 29, 2006 11:05 AM

Nancy: I do not understand why you think a 8+ month process is acceptable? Don't get frustrated? Don't impatient? Of course I want to avoid the "Rude American" label, but I do not need to know how my case is progressing at any given time? I think not. For the initial $10,000 check I mailed and the $11,500 to follow, I think I have the "right" to know. Money aside, I still have the "right" to know. I am paying for an attorney to provide LEGAL SERVICES. I have every right to know the status of the legal services I am receiving for my money. With your 3 completed adoptions I think the view is a little different from your side. As adoptive parents being held hostage by PGN, telling us not to get frustrate is a slap in the face.

Comment by Jamie Adams at June 29, 2006 12:15 PM

Nancy~
I agree wholeheartedly with you. This is my second adoption of child from Guatemala. As adoptive parents, we want our children home as soon as we can. We do need to realize that what's happening in PGN right now is most definitely NOT typical. At any given time PGN is arbitrary and unpredictable, but this is a really bad time. It is almost - but not quite - as bad as it was during 2003 when that whole Hague thing was going on. (We got stuck in that in our first adoption.) I think what is the most difficult is not so much the waiting itself as in the not knowing. However, it is NOT in our hands as to when we get to bring our children home. We DO need to let the process run. I can't imagine what our government would do if foreigners were demanding to know the what/when/how/why of their decisions of the adoption process. One of the toughest things to do is to remain optimistic. I think it's OK to vent, but if all you read is negative things, then it's time to focus your energy on something else. We have been blessed in having an agency who is wonderful and keeping us informed with what we need to know. She also encourages her families to read this site.
Kelly, you are doing a FANTASTIC job at keeping people in the know. THANK YOU!

Comment by Shannon at June 29, 2006 01:36 PM

Kim,
I feel so sorry for you! I'm not one for bad mouthing people, but you should say who your agency is so no one else gets caught up in a situation like yours. That's simply unacceptable. We're talking about children and famalies for goodness sake!

Comment by Suzanne at June 29, 2006 04:54 PM

OK, folks....I would like for everyone to back up and take a deep breath.

I think we are getting some borderline personal attacks. While I understand the frustration and sadness that parents are going through...I will remind everyone that compassion is a TWO-WAY street. Please do not make assumptions about anybody else's adoption experience (past or present) We are not a "forum" and we do not have the luxury of forum postings.

Comment by Kelly (guatadopt.com) at June 30, 2006 12:41 PM

Jamie-
I agree with you 100%. As a parent who has completed a Guatemalan adoption, I can now only watch with empathy as you guys are being held hostage by PGN. I remember the feeling of total helplessness and despair when my case was in PGN, and though I was out in a little over 2 months that time felt like eternity.

I guess my point is, I feel like sometimes those who have had longer adoption journeys aren't sympathetic towards the current adoptive parents' waits. No, I did not have the long wait of the Hague mess, but my 6 month journey was incredibly stressful and I hope to never judge those who are currently adopting. It's just not a fair thing to do! Jamie, I hope you and the other PGN waiters get good news really soon.

Comment by Linda Jones at June 30, 2006 03:29 PM

FYI - My agency e-mailed me today that PGN is now taking approximately 8 weeks. No idea how true this is. I had to laugh because we've been in for 4 months.
Jill

Comment by Jill at June 30, 2006 07:37 PM

We came out of PGN 4/26 and are now waiting for a birth certificate to be issued. I was told we would be picking him up at the latest 3 weeks from then. He was born in Escuintla. Just wondering if anyone out there knows much about this part of the process. We are being told that although our case worker travels to the municipality daily, and they insist that the document will be ready, he is told to return the next day,and leaves empty handed over and over. I am very thankful that we are out of PGN, and pray for everyone else's speedy out, but could they possibly drag this out any longer?? How hard is it to issue a new birth certificate???

Comment by Shelly at June 30, 2006 09:59 PM

Hi Shelly,
I am from Chiquimula (a Department in the East of Guatemala) and my experience in getting a new birth certificate in the Municipalidades hasn't been a problem, especially in the Departamentos (States). I know it is harder to get one in Guatemala City because when i tried to get my ID there, people who worked there were not nice and took me two or three days. I think you need to investigate more with your agency if the problem is only the birth certificate or more than that. Hang in there, at least you are out of PGN, we are still there.

Comment by Esperanza Smith at July 1, 2006 10:27 AM

We have been in PGN for 5 weeks, since 5/26. My agency just notified me that we were kicked out this past week (probably one of the 70 cases that came out?) for a "local correction" and that we will be back in on Monday.
For those of you that have had local corrections, what was your timeframe before coming out final?
Thank you!

Comment by Vicki at July 2, 2006 09:27 AM

Vicki, I've been in PGN over 16 weeks now. Nothing I submitted was returned, however, I was kicked out once for an error on the babies birth certificate and just recieved news Friday that I was once again taken out for something and on top of that being told that this could take MONTHS to be fixed. So you getting back in on Monday is great. Rec'd referral when baby was 2 weeks old, she is now 11 months old and who knows when I will get her.

Comment by Pamella at July 2, 2006 02:48 PM

Vicki, I've been in PGN over 16 weeks now. Nothing I submitted was returned, however, I was kicked out once for an error on the babies birth certificate and just recieved news Friday that I was once again taken out for something and on top of that being told that this could take MONTHS to be fixed. So you getting back in on Monday is great. Rec'd referral when baby was 2 weeks old, she is now 11 months old and who knows when I will get her.

Comment by Pamella at July 2, 2006 02:49 PM

Kim,

I have been lied too many, many times by our facilitator. I'm curious who your facilitator is if you won't mind sharing. We have AS on board and thank God for them.
Thanks,
Michelle
wageman97@yahoo.com

Comment by Michelle at July 2, 2006 05:37 PM

Vicki
We were KO of PGN in May after being in since 3/24 for something very small and were back in the 1st wk in June and we are still waiting to get out of PGN this makes 4 wks. Who knows what the time frames are.. I just know I want out of PGN. Good Luck

Comment by Rita at July 3, 2006 10:49 AM

We received a picture of our son on 7/2 at 6 months old and he looked a little sick and sad- he is only 12 pounds! We felt a sense of urgency that he really needs to come home! Then that night we got the e-mail that we are out of PGN (we went in on 3/1) and will be getting the pink slip on Monday the 10th. On that day we will be notified of our embassy date. We feel that God is looking out for him and knew it was time for him to be united with us. This site has been extremely helpful and reassuring for us. We feel blessed and fortunate to be picking up our son at 6 1/2 months. Good luck to all of you who are still waiting, especially those who have been waiting much longer.
Jill

Comment by Jill at July 4, 2006 11:27 AM

Shelly, our daughter was also born in Esquintla. We received PGN approval on April 3 and flew to Guatemala City on April 30. Our daughter was brought to us the next morning, and our appointment date at the US embassy was May 2. From what I understand, it is good that your child was not born in Guatemala City, as it takes longer to get a reissued birth certificate there.

Comment by sophia40 at July 5, 2006 09:11 PM

I was in PGN for 17 weeks before being told that I was approved by PGN. I, amazingly, was not kicked out for anything. It took exactly one week for the birth certificate to be issued. My son was not born in Guatemala City. It sure seemed like a long time to wait for him! I was going crazy by the 16th week after being told that my case may be delayed until August. But, that never happened and I finally have him home AND I feel very lucky. I hope that all of you that continue to wait hear very soon that you are out of PGN. It must be excruciating. Samantha

Comment by Sam at July 6, 2006 01:20 AM

Oh my, I am almost sorry that I came upon this site. We have not even made it into PGN yet. We just received our DNA. I thought that we were almost done. Now to hear that it is taking some people months and months to get throught the court is disheartening. Does it make any difference if the child is older?

Comment by Lisa at July 17, 2006 09:59 PM

Lisa,
I am finding it makes no diffrence who you are I guess unless you are related to th PGN family. The sad part is we have been in PGN for almost 3times the amount of time your supposed to be. We are 17 or 18 wks. I am trying to forget.

Comment by Rita at July 18, 2006 07:31 PM

HI Rita

We have been in PGN for 20- 21 weeks. It sometimes feels like we are forgotten and there is nothing we can do about it. We feel alone in this sometimes, its good to connect with others who know our pain. I hope for all of us, things move soon.

Comment by Paula at July 19, 2006 11:25 AM

Does anyone have a list of agencies that are failing in the adoption adoption dept.

Comment by JennB at February 19, 2007 03:03 PM